You called and I could not hardly speak. I often wondered if they were making an example of me in rez and you knew you had to call.
You kept saying, "Are you alright? Talk to me."
I told you, "No" I was not alright. Then, told you how I was told I cannot trust my mind. That the men I saw her with were not really there, etc."
You told me not to let them steal my mind, that she was a known "pig" and screwed everything she could, that what I saw was there and not to let them gang up on me and tell me I was crazy -- on and on. You were a couple steps closer to seeing the big picture than I was... You had also seen her bed many people and you knew your mind did not invent that. To hold fast to my own mind as she was evil. Only, you did not have ALL the pieces yet either.
Funny thing is two men were going with me to report her. All of a sudden, they back down. Later P told me that he couldn't because they were not going to let him into the corps if he continued. He had a pained look on his face. I think he was piecing things together like the rest of us. No clear picture yet, but alarm bells and the begining of the shocks we would see in rez. He was a GREAT guy and I know he would have never tried to HURT me.
But his silence and the other guy backing off threw me into the pit against her -- alone.
She was more harmful to me than anyone I have ever met in my life - ever. Then of course I met "her boss" naked.
Funny, but right before I went to leadership to "help" her (which they were all in on it, but I did not know) God spoke to me, not audibly like Daddy dearest, but it was one of the longest pieces of info I got that way. He told me somethings that I held onto as 300 people were all talking about my devils...
But then I just broke. How could I live if I did not even know what shirt I put on? They were crippling to me. Intentionally...
In that desperate state you called and told me I was not crazy - you had seen it too... Don't do anything rash. There was much evil surrounding her.... etc. etc.
We were still not clear on the BIG picture...
Naive, I went to the coach after being summoned, to solicit VPW's help to fix the things that were happening. Only to see they were happening because of him. It ripped my heart out.
I went to a quiet place to fall apart. And cried my guts out...
Praise God for the Schoinheit paper etc. to open the door to let us out, so to speak. With a large group leaving, it was not as hard as it would have been by ourselves.
Weren't you the one that told VP "No" and he belittled you infront of the whole corps -- just to kill you credibility in case you spoke up? Was that you or Valerie?
That kill the credibility was tormenting. I heard there were suicides by girls who tried to endure all of this. I was almost among them.
Does anyone remember who Linda Carter is? She did the 2nd post on this thread. According to her profile, she registered to post is September, apparently lurked here for 3 months, and when she finally got up enough nerve to post, she got tarred and feathered by the committed, faithful remnant of GSC. Think she's ever coming back here?
If she DID read the rest of the thread, how do you think she felt when she read about how anybody who could possibly think anything positive about VPW must be really screwed up? She's the new person who asked the wrong question during manifestations, I guess.
Has it occurred to you that part of the healing process for some might involve still thinking VPW was the MOG and even posting to that effect? So what if someone does that. At least they're doing it HERE!!! Because if they post HERE they can read the other threads that are HERE and just maybe change their mind in their own season at they're own rate of growth.
But no, we've got to be thread police social worker wannabes and "Mike-proof" every thread as soon as someone posts anything positive about VPW. Consider Kitsober for a minute. She's catholic. Many discussions have included catholic bashing, but you don't see her getting in a snit and trying to overcompensate. She justs posts when she feels inspired and is not threatened by it.
Shazdancer posted on the 2nd page of this thread that she had to endure a court case in which every day she had to relive the attack on her and that she longed for the day when it would be over and she wouldn't have to relive it anymore. When is it going to be over for some of you? Is literally the rest of your life going to be spent martyred to what a dead man did to you? Your identity is victim. Who needs son of God, or Christ in you? God doesn't have any power to heal your heart?
Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. True, or false. I think reliving the attack can be necessary, as Shaz said, but not indefinitely. There's got to be a point in time when you must cut your losses and move on. Reliving the attack will prevent healing after awhile. Notice that Shaz hasn't posted on this thread since.
I think you totally misunderstand. All of us are at different stages of healing. Some want to get the word out so others can heal and some want to get the word out but still have a hard time with it.
These things will always be with us no matter what anyone will judge us on. It is layers of our hurt hearts that has to be peeled off. Sometimes that will take years. Some days are harder than others. Most of us are here to help others and at the same time to heal ourselves. Sometimes we think we are totally healed from it all until one day it comes at us again.
I think you are a little harsh on us. Who knows why shaz didn't answer since the second page. Who are you to judge all of us just because she didn't?
Linda Carter posted once and never posted again. I would hope that we gave her plenty to think about. Of course it takes time for people to come to that understanding. Some won't. At least it was brought up to her and she can look at all the details herself and make her own decision.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Exposure of the truth and recognizing the destruction helps people weed it out. Pretending it did not happen allows it to hide and fester. Your view is smaller because you never got as involved as some of us.
What was your involvement? Going to twig? Not meant as a slam but as a point to show maybe why you and I are always miles apart.
Some people are still weeding out the effects, as the effects were that huge and that woven into us. You are fortunate you were not targeted, crippled or confused for years to come out and wonder ?what happened??
Heck, I met a corps guy who became homeless and lived on the street because of the chain of events that happened to him. Could God have helped him? Of course, John. But when you are so beaten into thinking God cannot even hear you anymore because you left or were thrown out of the corps it does have negative impact on you. Some longer lasting than others.
Until this can be talked about, sometimes over and over again, people are isolated in their corner of the world. Perhaps, they still believe they are worthless due to a public lashing by LCM, or having a letter sent out about them by Loy ?
I guess there are people who need to declare their allegiance to VPW. I still think they are worthy enough to hear the kind of person they hold in admiration. Then, they can decide if they wish to be like you, Mike and Oldiesman. If they hear it all and decide I love VPW anyway, I guess you do have a point. If a conman is exposed and someone still wants to write a check it is their business and right. But I still think it would be complicit for those of us who know, not make them aware of whom the recipient is.
Don?t be angry, be thankful you were spared the grief others lived through. And the same way you think we should not continue to discuss the nightmare on Elm street called ?TWI? you continue to deny what they covered up. So, as annoyed as you are at us, we are at your posturing.
I actually read a study on how some cult members need a cult. They NEED it to have a life. Even if presented with what they are involved with, they will not let go because they need it. So, I hope those out there do not crumble who are in need of a cult?.
You have shared some painful things that you endured. I hope holding on to a cult leader is not what keeps you going, I mean that. I do not want anything bad to happen to you when it all finally hits home.
Shaz, if you were offended I apologize. Kit, I am angry about what goes on in the Catholic church but I love you and my dearest friend here in Atlanta is also Catholic. She is my prayer partner and we discuss God?s love all the time. I think you know that just because one is upset with the actions within an organization, it does not mean all of its members are guilty or frowned upon. However, if you lauded THE perpetrator to the sky rather than God, we would probably disagree. (((((Shaz, Kit)))))
Oak, this thread was healing. Behind the scene people who were hurt by the same group are finally seeing what happened to them. Thanks for letting it go on its path.
edited for typo's
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 01, 2004 at 16:12.]
quote: Number one: Dr Wierwille is dead and can't refute or confirm any allegations against him. Martindale is alive and already admitted what he did. (and I hope he has repented by now.) Which Wierwille sins are you talking about? What is your proof, or even evidence except rumors? And what do you mean by "skunk pelt." Actually I know what you mean and how dare you use a term like that.
First post snaps at Oakspear, dissmisses all the FIRST hand accounts of people and seems a little aggressive for someone who has been lurking for 3 months and has seen the ropes...
Many of the responses back to her were much kinder than the tone of her post...
IMO...there is something MUCH bigger and more important going on with this thread than Linda Carter and her 2nd post... whether or not she can handle the truth or ever decides to post again is immaterial.
Pieces are falling into place evil is being exposed...healing is taking place for so many of those who thought that they were the *only ones*
I met a woman who shared about being a 17 year old wow who refused vp`s sexual demands during a visit on the field to *bless* the wows.... and then was coincidentally thrown off the wow field within a couple of weeks for being chock full of devil spirits...her whole family was involved with twi...they were told to have nothing to do with said daughter due to possibility of being infested themselves. They were told personally by vp himself that the daughter was *nuts* shoot who isn`t going to believe the mog?
It was almost 20 years before her family learned the truth...
I met a woman once who was recruited by two women for craig....they prtenede to be her best friends...kind of flattered her by making her think she was part of some really cool group .....she was so and young naieve really HAD gone into the corps to serve God....she was so cluless that she never understood that she was being recruited for months till she was placed in lcm`s presence and expected to participate in a threesome.
When she reacted with shock and horror....she immediatly was escorted off grounds....booted from the corpes within hours...was the topic of lunch that day...and before she could make it back to her home state...everyone had been informed of her *possession* and strenously warned to have no contact because of her danger.
So bewildering, so much shame and confusion...This lady too, nearly accomplished suicide.
VCP and LCM were both sadistic pigs...they wanted what they wanted ...caring nothing for the people destroyed in order to keep their nasty little secret....there is no forgiveness for either.......they enthusiastically embraced evil and endulged their sadistic apetites....they abided in evil and systematically destroyed young people who were seeking to serve God and simply made had the misfortune of being intercepted by these4 devourers ...these wolves in sheeps clothing...there will never be ANY excusing them or their actions.....
p.s. It wasn`t just women that were destroyed either...would this be an apropriate time to mention R B`s poor husband?
Go ahead, I do think healing is taken place all over this thread, only a couple cannot see it, but let's not stop the truth because there are people reading this getting healed.
And yes it is bigger than the second poster's offense.
edited for typo- I am a bad typist!
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 01, 2004 at 16:16.]
Tom Mitchell is never far from my thoughts when this subject comes up. Thanks for reminding me of a good man faced with something he could not deal with.
Can we not psychoanalyze Linda Carter? We don't know her. She posted her opinion and people responded. If she wants to post again, she will. If she doesn't, she won't.
The only thing that we know for sure, as Dot pointed out, is that she chose to come out swinging. More power to her.
Linda,
You're still welcome here, but come back soon. Your coffee's getting cold.
You are an idiot! Why is it that there has always got to be somebody who thinks everyone should stop speaking their mind on a matter.
Do you think you are the one God appointed to decide what is right an necessary to be said and what is not?
I would rather hear what you think about VPW or LCM than what you think of the way I express my thoughts because frankly Johniam I don't give Scarlet. But I wouldn't getting one.
If you think God does not want you to do or say something then don't do or say it but stay the hell away from my bizz. If I break some law in my tirade against religious dementia arrest me otherwise up yours.
You should try believing what God says it works better than discipline and is much more fun.
And just incase you did not read my last post about your anal idea that God expects me to be logical I will say it again. God doesn't expect anything of me and He only knows why you would since your not my mother even though you may be one. You OINKER.
Dot: I don't know Linda personally, but I know her husband. They have tried different spinoffs. He got really shafted while in the corps. In other words, they could get some serious closure here like most of us have. Just because she snapped at Oak with her first post doesn't mean she won't ever show her sunny side. Don't we want to give new people every opportunity to be comfortable with this setup? I know there's a point at which people have to make up their minds to go with the flow or go somewhere else.
Also, you're right. If it is a first hand account, it should be freely given. I wasn't implying that the things said shouldn't be said at all. I didn't even mean that I thought Shaz was offended; I figure she said her peace and then stayed away because reading threads like this may push her to relive stuff she'd rather avoid.
I just think that people who doubt the credibility of the accusations against VPW (like we all did at one time) that their opinions should also be freely given, and this is just not possible here sometimes. That's all. I guess I was questioning whether it's healthy for some of you to relive this stuff over and over and over again, but it's totally your call.
Speaking of that, the stuff I shared that happened to me actually didn't scar me as much as some stuff did years earlier that was not of a sexual nature at all. Some scars are still with me, but I just don't spend a lot of time pummelling myself with how that felt. Try not to anyway.
Maybe if someone was lauding the people who hurt you as THE men/women of God for our time, you might spend a little more time, how you say, "pummeling yourself" over it.
But tell us, early, what do you really think? ;)-->
Dear Dot, jon, vickles, et al,
I didn't go away, just had nothing to say, really. You all have been doing just fine! And my point had simply been that I understand that it can be painful to relive the abuse. Jon, you've been there as well, and we both can appreciate how wonderful it is to get on with life.
But there is something else at work here, and that is a need to do something good with one's life, to make the proverbial lemonade out of the lemons of TWI. I got burned by TWI in a few minor ways, so I speak about it, as one (anti-)witness, one piece of the puzzle that is the TWI cult. I suppose I could go work at a homeless shelter or feed the hungry, but I think my particular experience could help in a particular way, informing other Wayfers and ex-Wayfers that they are not alone. (And VP sure did his best to isolate his victims from one another.)
So I hope we can all find a happy medium. Help here if we want to, but go on with our lives the rest of the time. As for me, there is only one small section of my life that is delegated to TWI-ish things, and most of that is my time here on Gspot.
I hope this helps you understand, Jon.
Dot, so sweet of you to apologize for nothing! Carry on, girl.
For many years, while involved with TWI nobody was allowed to talk about these things, neither in public or even privately really. Even after TWI imploded, there weren't many people in my life who knew VPW like I did, that I could sort things out with in my own mind.
So many people involved with TWI never got a chance to see VP up close and personal. Even later corps people didn't really get a chance to talk or spend time with him.
I wrestled for years wondering how the VPW I knew and admired, who was so kind to me, be the same monster he was to others. Yet I witnessed plenty that made me wonder.....
So this forum has really helped me straighten things out in my own mind. I understand how people who really didn't spend time around him, and just saw him as the great teacher and MOG could have trouble with these things.
Yet, the truth has been spoken here. I think it's important to share what we saw and experienced. I know I'll never idolize anyone again, and excuse their abuses for the sake of "the great word they preach." Sigh....
After all, talk is cheap, or rather preaching and teaching is cheap. It's how someone lives that really counts. Do they live what they believe? or not? VP failed that test miserably. He was a big hypocrite, plain and simple. But the thing that really gets me going is that HE KNEW BETTER. Yet he chose to do evil instead of good. He could have been a much better man. As always, just my humble opinion.
I just think that people who doubt the credibility of the accusations against VPW (like we all did at one time) that their opinions should also be freely given, and this is just not possible here sometimes. I guess I was questioning whether it's healthy for some of you to relive this stuff over and over and over again, but it's totally your call.
Johniam,
I never doubted the credibility of the accusations against VPW. I freely give my opinion any time I like here.
What is with you? Why do you care about what's healthy for me. Shouldn't you just worry about yourself? You can take the sluggards out of the Way but you can't take the Way out of the sluggards. I'll bet you still think VPW and his magic keys to the words interpretation are right don't you? Fits like a hand in a glove huh...
Maybe you are a Craiglodite. Are you trying to turn your weakness into a strength or mine? If I were concerned with your health I would say you ought to reconsider the stuff you have been putting in your mind. There is a strong possibility that the things you believe to be correct are bovine. But it's totally your call.
you know what's really weird ? even after what happened to me with wierwille, i still thought he was the "man of god" and that somehow i didn't "get" it ~ or something like that ~ scary
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excathedra
pitch fork and tail dottie you kill me !!!!!
i'm so glad about the phone call but i don't remember much
poor vickles, that rejection "blackballing" was the worst, i was threatened with it more than once, and also experienced it
alfie, yeah you gotta rent "meet the parents" i'm sure you like de niro. there are some very funny scenes.
happy new years !!!
?
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Dot Matrix
You called and I could not hardly speak. I often wondered if they were making an example of me in rez and you knew you had to call.
You kept saying, "Are you alright? Talk to me."
I told you, "No" I was not alright. Then, told you how I was told I cannot trust my mind. That the men I saw her with were not really there, etc."
You told me not to let them steal my mind, that she was a known "pig" and screwed everything she could, that what I saw was there and not to let them gang up on me and tell me I was crazy -- on and on. You were a couple steps closer to seeing the big picture than I was... You had also seen her bed many people and you knew your mind did not invent that. To hold fast to my own mind as she was evil. Only, you did not have ALL the pieces yet either.
Funny thing is two men were going with me to report her. All of a sudden, they back down. Later P told me that he couldn't because they were not going to let him into the corps if he continued. He had a pained look on his face. I think he was piecing things together like the rest of us. No clear picture yet, but alarm bells and the begining of the shocks we would see in rez. He was a GREAT guy and I know he would have never tried to HURT me.
But his silence and the other guy backing off threw me into the pit against her -- alone.
She was more harmful to me than anyone I have ever met in my life - ever. Then of course I met "her boss" naked.
Funny, but right before I went to leadership to "help" her (which they were all in on it, but I did not know) God spoke to me, not audibly like Daddy dearest, but it was one of the longest pieces of info I got that way. He told me somethings that I held onto as 300 people were all talking about my devils...
But then I just broke. How could I live if I did not even know what shirt I put on? They were crippling to me. Intentionally...
In that desperate state you called and told me I was not crazy - you had seen it too... Don't do anything rash. There was much evil surrounding her.... etc. etc.
We were still not clear on the BIG picture...
Naive, I went to the coach after being summoned, to solicit VPW's help to fix the things that were happening. Only to see they were happening because of him. It ripped my heart out.
I went to a quiet place to fall apart. And cried my guts out...
Praise God for the Schoinheit paper etc. to open the door to let us out, so to speak. With a large group leaving, it was not as hard as it would have been by ourselves.
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Dot Matrix
Sunesis
Weren't you the one that told VP "No" and he belittled you infront of the whole corps -- just to kill you credibility in case you spoke up? Was that you or Valerie?
That kill the credibility was tormenting. I heard there were suicides by girls who tried to endure all of this. I was almost among them.
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excathedra
there were absolutely nervous breakdowns
and the girls brought to headquarters, it was about damage control and coverup, not therapy....
?
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Dot Matrix
I know of a few that had break downs...
I was told of the suicides. Something they never announced at lunch!
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johniam
Does anyone remember who Linda Carter is? She did the 2nd post on this thread. According to her profile, she registered to post is September, apparently lurked here for 3 months, and when she finally got up enough nerve to post, she got tarred and feathered by the committed, faithful remnant of GSC. Think she's ever coming back here?
If she DID read the rest of the thread, how do you think she felt when she read about how anybody who could possibly think anything positive about VPW must be really screwed up? She's the new person who asked the wrong question during manifestations, I guess.
Has it occurred to you that part of the healing process for some might involve still thinking VPW was the MOG and even posting to that effect? So what if someone does that. At least they're doing it HERE!!! Because if they post HERE they can read the other threads that are HERE and just maybe change their mind in their own season at they're own rate of growth.
But no, we've got to be thread police social worker wannabes and "Mike-proof" every thread as soon as someone posts anything positive about VPW. Consider Kitsober for a minute. She's catholic. Many discussions have included catholic bashing, but you don't see her getting in a snit and trying to overcompensate. She justs posts when she feels inspired and is not threatened by it.
Shazdancer posted on the 2nd page of this thread that she had to endure a court case in which every day she had to relive the attack on her and that she longed for the day when it would be over and she wouldn't have to relive it anymore. When is it going to be over for some of you? Is literally the rest of your life going to be spent martyred to what a dead man did to you? Your identity is victim. Who needs son of God, or Christ in you? God doesn't have any power to heal your heart?
Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. True, or false. I think reliving the attack can be necessary, as Shaz said, but not indefinitely. There's got to be a point in time when you must cut your losses and move on. Reliving the attack will prevent healing after awhile. Notice that Shaz hasn't posted on this thread since.
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vickles
johniam,
I think you totally misunderstand. All of us are at different stages of healing. Some want to get the word out so others can heal and some want to get the word out but still have a hard time with it.
These things will always be with us no matter what anyone will judge us on. It is layers of our hurt hearts that has to be peeled off. Sometimes that will take years. Some days are harder than others. Most of us are here to help others and at the same time to heal ourselves. Sometimes we think we are totally healed from it all until one day it comes at us again.
I think you are a little harsh on us. Who knows why shaz didn't answer since the second page. Who are you to judge all of us just because she didn't?
Linda Carter posted once and never posted again. I would hope that we gave her plenty to think about. Of course it takes time for people to come to that understanding. Some won't. At least it was brought up to her and she can look at all the details herself and make her own decision.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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vickles
Thanks dot for posting what a sociopath is. Ring any bells for anyone?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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Dot Matrix
Jon
Exposure of the truth and recognizing the destruction helps people weed it out. Pretending it did not happen allows it to hide and fester. Your view is smaller because you never got as involved as some of us.
What was your involvement? Going to twig? Not meant as a slam but as a point to show maybe why you and I are always miles apart.
Some people are still weeding out the effects, as the effects were that huge and that woven into us. You are fortunate you were not targeted, crippled or confused for years to come out and wonder ?what happened??
Heck, I met a corps guy who became homeless and lived on the street because of the chain of events that happened to him. Could God have helped him? Of course, John. But when you are so beaten into thinking God cannot even hear you anymore because you left or were thrown out of the corps it does have negative impact on you. Some longer lasting than others.
Until this can be talked about, sometimes over and over again, people are isolated in their corner of the world. Perhaps, they still believe they are worthless due to a public lashing by LCM, or having a letter sent out about them by Loy ?
I guess there are people who need to declare their allegiance to VPW. I still think they are worthy enough to hear the kind of person they hold in admiration. Then, they can decide if they wish to be like you, Mike and Oldiesman. If they hear it all and decide I love VPW anyway, I guess you do have a point. If a conman is exposed and someone still wants to write a check it is their business and right. But I still think it would be complicit for those of us who know, not make them aware of whom the recipient is.
Don?t be angry, be thankful you were spared the grief others lived through. And the same way you think we should not continue to discuss the nightmare on Elm street called ?TWI? you continue to deny what they covered up. So, as annoyed as you are at us, we are at your posturing.
I actually read a study on how some cult members need a cult. They NEED it to have a life. Even if presented with what they are involved with, they will not let go because they need it. So, I hope those out there do not crumble who are in need of a cult?.
You have shared some painful things that you endured. I hope holding on to a cult leader is not what keeps you going, I mean that. I do not want anything bad to happen to you when it all finally hits home.
Shaz, if you were offended I apologize. Kit, I am angry about what goes on in the Catholic church but I love you and my dearest friend here in Atlanta is also Catholic. She is my prayer partner and we discuss God?s love all the time. I think you know that just because one is upset with the actions within an organization, it does not mean all of its members are guilty or frowned upon. However, if you lauded THE perpetrator to the sky rather than God, we would probably disagree. (((((Shaz, Kit)))))
Oak, this thread was healing. Behind the scene people who were hurt by the same group are finally seeing what happened to them. Thanks for letting it go on its path.
edited for typo's
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 01, 2004 at 16:12.]
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Dot Matrix
BTW
Here is the post of your shy first time poster:
First post snaps at Oakspear, dissmisses all the FIRST hand accounts of people and seems a little aggressive for someone who has been lurking for 3 months and has seen the ropes...
Many of the responses back to her were much kinder than the tone of her post...
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rascal
IMO...there is something MUCH bigger and more important going on with this thread than Linda Carter and her 2nd post... whether or not she can handle the truth or ever decides to post again is immaterial.
Pieces are falling into place evil is being exposed...healing is taking place for so many of those who thought that they were the *only ones*
I met a woman who shared about being a 17 year old wow who refused vp`s sexual demands during a visit on the field to *bless* the wows.... and then was coincidentally thrown off the wow field within a couple of weeks for being chock full of devil spirits...her whole family was involved with twi...they were told to have nothing to do with said daughter due to possibility of being infested themselves. They were told personally by vp himself that the daughter was *nuts* shoot who isn`t going to believe the mog?
It was almost 20 years before her family learned the truth...
I met a woman once who was recruited by two women for craig....they prtenede to be her best friends...kind of flattered her by making her think she was part of some really cool group .....she was so and young naieve really HAD gone into the corps to serve God....she was so cluless that she never understood that she was being recruited for months till she was placed in lcm`s presence and expected to participate in a threesome.
When she reacted with shock and horror....she immediatly was escorted off grounds....booted from the corpes within hours...was the topic of lunch that day...and before she could make it back to her home state...everyone had been informed of her *possession* and strenously warned to have no contact because of her danger.
So bewildering, so much shame and confusion...This lady too, nearly accomplished suicide.
VCP and LCM were both sadistic pigs...they wanted what they wanted ...caring nothing for the people destroyed in order to keep their nasty little secret....there is no forgiveness for either.......they enthusiastically embraced evil and endulged their sadistic apetites....they abided in evil and systematically destroyed young people who were seeking to serve God and simply made had the misfortune of being intercepted by these4 devourers ...these wolves in sheeps clothing...there will never be ANY excusing them or their actions.....
p.s. It wasn`t just women that were destroyed either...would this be an apropriate time to mention R B`s poor husband?
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Dot Matrix
Go ahead, I do think healing is taken place all over this thread, only a couple cannot see it, but let's not stop the truth because there are people reading this getting healed.
And yes it is bigger than the second poster's offense.
edited for typo- I am a bad typist!
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 01, 2004 at 16:16.]
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Radar OReilly
Rascal,
Tom Mitchell is never far from my thoughts when this subject comes up. Thanks for reminding me of a good man faced with something he could not deal with.
Radar
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Raf
Can we not psychoanalyze Linda Carter? We don't know her. She posted her opinion and people responded. If she wants to post again, she will. If she doesn't, she won't.
The only thing that we know for sure, as Dot pointed out, is that she chose to come out swinging. More power to her.
Linda,
You're still welcome here, but come back soon. Your coffee's getting cold.
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early2it
Johniam,
You are an idiot! Why is it that there has always got to be somebody who thinks everyone should stop speaking their mind on a matter.
Do you think you are the one God appointed to decide what is right an necessary to be said and what is not?
I would rather hear what you think about VPW or LCM than what you think of the way I express my thoughts because frankly Johniam I don't give Scarlet. But I wouldn't getting one.
Continued on next post...
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early2it
Continued from last post....
If you think God does not want you to do or say something then don't do or say it but stay the hell away from my bizz. If I break some law in my tirade against religious dementia arrest me otherwise up yours.
You should try believing what God says it works better than discipline and is much more fun.
And just incase you did not read my last post about your anal idea that God expects me to be logical I will say it again. God doesn't expect anything of me and He only knows why you would since your not my mother even though you may be one. You OINKER.
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johniam
Dot: I don't know Linda personally, but I know her husband. They have tried different spinoffs. He got really shafted while in the corps. In other words, they could get some serious closure here like most of us have. Just because she snapped at Oak with her first post doesn't mean she won't ever show her sunny side. Don't we want to give new people every opportunity to be comfortable with this setup? I know there's a point at which people have to make up their minds to go with the flow or go somewhere else.
Also, you're right. If it is a first hand account, it should be freely given. I wasn't implying that the things said shouldn't be said at all. I didn't even mean that I thought Shaz was offended; I figure she said her peace and then stayed away because reading threads like this may push her to relive stuff she'd rather avoid.
I just think that people who doubt the credibility of the accusations against VPW (like we all did at one time) that their opinions should also be freely given, and this is just not possible here sometimes. That's all. I guess I was questioning whether it's healthy for some of you to relive this stuff over and over and over again, but it's totally your call.
Speaking of that, the stuff I shared that happened to me actually didn't scar me as much as some stuff did years earlier that was not of a sexual nature at all. Some scars are still with me, but I just don't spend a lot of time pummelling myself with how that felt. Try not to anyway.
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johniam
Early: Hi. God bless you. You're a wonderful son of God and I just want to give you a big kiss. Is that OK?
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Raf
Jon,
Maybe if someone was lauding the people who hurt you as THE men/women of God for our time, you might spend a little more time, how you say, "pummeling yourself" over it.
Can you check your pt please?
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shazdancer
But tell us, early, what do you really think?
;)-->
Dear Dot, jon, vickles, et al,
I didn't go away, just had nothing to say, really. You all have been doing just fine! And my point had simply been that I understand that it can be painful to relive the abuse. Jon, you've been there as well, and we both can appreciate how wonderful it is to get on with life.
But there is something else at work here, and that is a need to do something good with one's life, to make the proverbial lemonade out of the lemons of TWI. I got burned by TWI in a few minor ways, so I speak about it, as one (anti-)witness, one piece of the puzzle that is the TWI cult. I suppose I could go work at a homeless shelter or feed the hungry, but I think my particular experience could help in a particular way, informing other Wayfers and ex-Wayfers that they are not alone. (And VP sure did his best to isolate his victims from one another.)
So I hope we can all find a happy medium. Help here if we want to, but go on with our lives the rest of the time. As for me, there is only one small section of my life that is delegated to TWI-ish things, and most of that is my time here on Gspot.
I hope this helps you understand, Jon.
Dot, so sweet of you to apologize for nothing! Carry on, girl.
May the new year bring us lots of peace.
Shaz
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ex10
Early, you actually make a good point.
For many years, while involved with TWI nobody was allowed to talk about these things, neither in public or even privately really. Even after TWI imploded, there weren't many people in my life who knew VPW like I did, that I could sort things out with in my own mind.
So many people involved with TWI never got a chance to see VP up close and personal. Even later corps people didn't really get a chance to talk or spend time with him.
I wrestled for years wondering how the VPW I knew and admired, who was so kind to me, be the same monster he was to others. Yet I witnessed plenty that made me wonder.....
So this forum has really helped me straighten things out in my own mind. I understand how people who really didn't spend time around him, and just saw him as the great teacher and MOG could have trouble with these things.
Yet, the truth has been spoken here. I think it's important to share what we saw and experienced. I know I'll never idolize anyone again, and excuse their abuses for the sake of "the great word they preach." Sigh....
After all, talk is cheap, or rather preaching and teaching is cheap. It's how someone lives that really counts. Do they live what they believe? or not? VP failed that test miserably. He was a big hypocrite, plain and simple. But the thing that really gets me going is that HE KNEW BETTER. Yet he chose to do evil instead of good. He could have been a much better man. As always, just my humble opinion.
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early2it
Johniam,
I never doubted the credibility of the accusations against VPW. I freely give my opinion any time I like here.
Continued on next post....
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early2it
Continued from last post....
What is with you? Why do you care about what's healthy for me. Shouldn't you just worry about yourself? You can take the sluggards out of the Way but you can't take the Way out of the sluggards. I'll bet you still think VPW and his magic keys to the words interpretation are right don't you? Fits like a hand in a glove huh...
Maybe you are a Craiglodite. Are you trying to turn your weakness into a strength or mine? If I were concerned with your health I would say you ought to reconsider the stuff you have been putting in your mind. There is a strong possibility that the things you believe to be correct are bovine. But it's totally your call.
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excathedra
you know what's really weird ? even after what happened to me with wierwille, i still thought he was the "man of god" and that somehow i didn't "get" it ~ or something like that ~ scary
?
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