I see Dot' POV about a "sweet" twig... for many that was the twi experience. But I cringe to know I sent money to those lying thieving scum.
It is one thing to sin knowingly when both participants are willing. But what was done in the name of service to God "on a higher plane" makes me sick. They make the scribes and parasees of Jesus's time look like saints. They are all VERY VERY lucky that no ones's husband, boyfriend, brither or father came a calling for revenge.
If I were lcm I'd watch my back and live in fear.
[This message was edited by Al Poole on December 31, 2003 at 16:48.]
Steve, and others are correct in saying that certain females were "targeted" and others weren't. I don't want to reveal too much personal info here.
But, I was around VPW some. Not as much as others, but he knew me by name, knew my parents, and other family members. I worked teacher's room, head table, back stage, and had personal conversations with VPW many times. He never said or did anything remotely "inappropriate" in my presence.
I have found out, by others "in the know," that I was labelled "off limits." I think the reasons for this are many, but one being I had too many family members involved in TWI who were of my parents generation. If anybody messed with me, not just VPW, but others as well, the whole sordid underbelly of TWI would be exposed. He couldn't take a chance on me.
I think he kept me around "on purpose" because I was innocent. I was good "cover." And I'm not the only one that was "used" in this way. I feel really betrayed by VP. No, he didn't molest me, but he used me just the same. :(--> Was it intentional? I don't know, but it doesn't matter. The fact is, it happened.
VPW was a liar and a fraud, who led a double life, who went to great lengths to keep it a secret from the masses. And I think even his "body of teachings" were used to rationalize his actions and MOG status and keep up his cover.
I know this is hard to believe and accept for some, who didn't have the same experiences, but it's the truth. And too sad for words.....
Steve, I?m fully aware of emotions running high and I can certainly understand where you are coming from. Point well taken. My position was that a ?victim,? in this case a lady, shouldn?t feel embarrassed because she absolutely did nothing wrong. After all, she was a victim and not a willing participant. Also, I can understand the difficultness of one retelling his/her story over and over again. However, my comment was simply a well-meaning exhortation. I know before God?s eyes, she?s pure and I was just trying to appeal to her nature not to feel any embarrassment. It was meant to edify, nothing more. I hope this helps for clarification purposes. Thanks for the observation. Your input has surely helped me clear this up.
Dot, I too understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, there are people who will not understand. At this point of their lives, they don?t have the necessary tools or experiences to discern adequately, but that?s their problem and shortcomings. We stop, teach, share, and move on, and stop again if assistance is needed. Hopefully, they eventually see the light. Some stories, sometimes needs repeating, for the sake of humanity. This is simply a principle that I?m not associating to this thread, although, worth mentioning.
Note: Sometimes, I?m apprehensive to post in forums because it isn?t too difficult for people (including myself) to inadvertently misconstrue statements. We are humans and not seeing a person?s face, reaction, tone, or body language, can surely hinder a well-meaning comment(s). This, I teach my students in my computer classes.
[This message was edited by Brady on December 31, 2003 at 17:33.]
I think it was duly noted you were just making us feel comfortable and not challanged. I am sure we all felt the kindness in your post. I think Steve was just kinda sharing why we did delete it, I am sure he got your point as your support was obvious.
Thanks for your sweet heart.
Her story shows so much of the man behind the curtain.
Reading this all again makes my heart ache, again, at the more than immoral, maybe amoral behavior of those who sat upon thrones and proclaimed themselves "leaders and servants" in Christ's stead...I keep thinking of the verse where Lord Jesus says that it would be better that a millstone be hung around the necks of these and they be drowned in the sea than to have offended these little ones...I am so sorry that I saw so little and did less to help these who were in such need.
I so long for the day when this all will be put to rights and put to rest...that it was all done in God's name and somehow justified as liberty in Christ...much worse than the drunk's vomit.
I knew Marsha of the 6th corps pretty well--I was so dense and could not see why she was so turned up-side down our last year in res. My heart goes out to all of you who live with this...
I was on limb staff where she was her int. year of the corps.
Everyone bashed her as having devil sprits and not to listen to her because she was loaded with them.....
All designed to have people not believe her if she opened her mouth.
Years later, the same woman that spread lies around about her, did it to me when I did not want to dabble in the inner circle. Man, I feel for Marsha.
They had an area meeting telling everyone I had devils when I confronted an inner circle weirdo about her sexual practices and drunkenness.
It was awful and suicide did cross my mind. I was robbed of dignity and publicly humiliated. I was not believed and set up as a liar. I was told that it would be better to loose one to save many. So, "this woman" sacrificed me. Slaughtered my integrity. And hoped I would take my own life. Today, I think I would sue her.
Anyway, as I sat staring at the nothingness I could hardly speak and suicide kept popping up. Out of nowhere Ex called me and asked, "Are you alright?" I told her "no."
I told her what happened, as I knew she would believe me. She saved my life. She informed me that this woman was one of the BOD party girls etc. She was a big liar and lived for the devil - not God. All the things I had seen... I was not crazy. And I did not kill myself, largely due to the timing of that call.
I still didn't know VPW was at the helm of this wreck. I could not wait to someday tell him about it so he could help this woman and save the ministry from evil.
Then the corps and the coach....
But what that woman did to me plagued me.
Finally, Ralph D told me that that woman did the very same thing to Marsha. And that woman was one of Weirwille's pimps. She did get girls for him. She was the evil one and stood up at an area meeting and told 300 people I had devils because I challenged her horrible anti-christ life style.
Yea, I feel for Marsha.
Years later, I read Marsha's letter and saw she went through the same thing with the same people. As Ralph suggested
Dot, thanks for the clarification. I didn?t know that something was deleted in relation to exxie when you posted addressing me. Although, your post did say, edited by request of exxie, I sincerely had no clue what it was about. I even responded by saying that I didn?t know the reason for the editing and request for the editing, but I did say that I had faith in the judgment that you both posses. After that, that issue became insignificant to me and didn?t cross my mind at all. It was put to rest. Now that you have mentioned the ?KEY? term ?deleted,? in association to Steve?s post, I am able to see the connection. This is a good example of honest and benign cyberspace miscommunication. Once again, I thank you for the clarification. It?s certainly appreciated:)-->
yes, Dot--I know who it was and she always seemed like someone that was running a houselamp on a 220 volt breaker--she, among many(not all) 4th corps women, never seemed quite right to me. I never would have fathomed pimping for vp but I learned many years later, independant of here or Waydale, that it was true. Somehow, it fit with why I always was leery of her, and others, as well.
but on top of all that comes the lying, covering up and slander of the innocents...if it was all so right and cool in the eyes of God; why all the evil collateral damage along the way???? Sounds like end justifies the means, situational ethics BULL-.... to me--exactly what we stood against in the good ole Way inter-NASH, doncha know???
Dot, excie, Sunesis, others---screw all the gaylord fockkers, as excie says/said...don't know where it comes from but I definitely copy the sentiment!! The blind may well remain blind but some have, and will continue to, see the light of day on the sin and destruction wrought by the twisted, inner-circle "jerks" who claimed God and His blessing on all their evil. may He reward them even as Alexander the copersmith in Timothy. And He will not forget those who rebuked the evil, no matter if the sound doctrine was heeded or no.....
Yes, she did act like she owned the red light district. She was a man eating vag_na and she told 300 people I had devils because I could not believe her "walk with God". It consisted of lying to the other female area leader, sleeping with guys she knew for a few minutes at a bar, stealing some of my furniture that my father is still angry about, sacrificing believers so they could have "sex" without reproof, mishandling of money, being drunk, behavior unbecoming of anyone who was to represent God. Now, I am not perfect. But this behavior was out-of-control.
She even walked in on my boyfriend and me with another guy and yelled "switch" and grabbed my guy and I was suppose to be with hers. I had never been more uncomfortable in my life. I introduced her to someone interested in PFAL and she french kissed him. He was insulted by it. It was way out of line.
Then, I get into the corps and see clearly the guy at the helm is our own MOG VPW. It shocked and just wigged me out. I again was fighting thoughts of suicide. I knew if I left they would announce I did so with devils and all my friends and life was all woven in with TWI.
To leave -- well, you would loose so much. Plus I would have to tell my father I failed and he already entertained those thoughts about me. Also, when neighbors went to my parents to tell them TWI was a cult he asked me and I told him it was the best thing that ever happened to me and would be my life. So, he told the neighbors to bug off and supported me -- at the first thing I ever committed to.
I sold my house, I alienated my friends who would not sign the green card, I spent my inheritance on my corps sponsorship...
I did not know how to get out...
Suicide was looking good....
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 31, 2003 at 19:49.]
I do not care about anything else. She tried to have people kill themselves to keep the dirty secret safe.
She came from hell.
You know how close I was to suicide when God told you to call me...
If you defend her I will defend Weirwille - they are the same to me. She was a recruiter, maybe a victim at first, but like a rapist who rapes because he was raped does not preclude them from the guilt. He would still be responsible for the crime. If you defend her then you must let LCM off the hook -- same thing.
I concur, Dot--she was not responseable for actions perpetrated on her but she did NOT need to embrace the dark side of the force--which she most obviously did....
When I was in the corpse there was a woman that was in an earlier corpse that I became friends with. I learned to really like her and trust her. One day while we were walking she shared some things about being in the rv with vpw. She backed off after seeing that I was totally horrified. She no longer was interested in being my friend.
Not too long after that I was kicked out of the corpse. Coincidence? Maybe.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
VPW and LCM were not the only "players" in the secret sex game. There were MANY other men, leaders, as well as women, who perpetrated the whole thing. VP defintely had his share of "enablers."
I think many of the people who read this forum may think that it was only LCM, or maybe only LCM and VP who were serial adulterers and abusers. And that just ain't true. There were many others involved in taking advantage of their "position." What about them? Are they excused? like VP is by his apologists?
Gotta tell you K Mal------ of the 3 or4th corps was into that life style up to his neck being under him was another horrible year of my life.
But when he found out the "stuff" was wrong. He repented and wrote a letter to all the corps girls he hurt in Pennsylvania. He got it to people in off-shoots and it got to me anyway.
I completely forgave him and respect him for admitting he was wrong and apologizing for the pain he caused. He is an example of how to take responsibility and change the course of the destruction he caused.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
68
96
22
28
Popular Days
Dec 31
88
Jan 1
83
Dec 29
58
Dec 30
48
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 68 posts
Dot Matrix 96 posts
Oakspear 22 posts
early2it 28 posts
Popular Days
Dec 31 2003
88 posts
Jan 1 2004
83 posts
Dec 29 2003
58 posts
Dec 30 2003
48 posts
Al Poole
None of it was/is excuseable.
HOW CAN ANYONE EVEN BEGIN TO DEFEND THAT SCUM???
I see Dot' POV about a "sweet" twig... for many that was the twi experience. But I cringe to know I sent money to those lying thieving scum.
It is one thing to sin knowingly when both participants are willing. But what was done in the name of service to God "on a higher plane" makes me sick. They make the scribes and parasees of Jesus's time look like saints. They are all VERY VERY lucky that no ones's husband, boyfriend, brither or father came a calling for revenge.
If I were lcm I'd watch my back and live in fear.
[This message was edited by Al Poole on December 31, 2003 at 16:48.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Steve, and others are correct in saying that certain females were "targeted" and others weren't. I don't want to reveal too much personal info here.
But, I was around VPW some. Not as much as others, but he knew me by name, knew my parents, and other family members. I worked teacher's room, head table, back stage, and had personal conversations with VPW many times. He never said or did anything remotely "inappropriate" in my presence.
I have found out, by others "in the know," that I was labelled "off limits." I think the reasons for this are many, but one being I had too many family members involved in TWI who were of my parents generation. If anybody messed with me, not just VPW, but others as well, the whole sordid underbelly of TWI would be exposed. He couldn't take a chance on me.
I think he kept me around "on purpose" because I was innocent. I was good "cover." And I'm not the only one that was "used" in this way. I feel really betrayed by VP. No, he didn't molest me, but he used me just the same.
:(--> Was it intentional? I don't know, but it doesn't matter. The fact is, it happened.
VPW was a liar and a fraud, who led a double life, who went to great lengths to keep it a secret from the masses. And I think even his "body of teachings" were used to rationalize his actions and MOG status and keep up his cover.
I know this is hard to believe and accept for some, who didn't have the same experiences, but it's the truth. And too sad for words.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Al Poole
Wow ex 10 we were posting at the same time and you bare out my point exactly!!!!!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Yeah, Al, my dad would've kicked VP's butt from here to kingdom come, if he had messed with me. And I guarantee ya, I would've told Dad.
;)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
I know it is about power but i do think each man had a type the went for -- maybe now and then strayed from the type --
LCM - always athletic types. Long and lean mostly. Attractive woman that were sporty or active.
VPW - curvy teenagers
Both sickos but the girls I knew fell into these catagories.
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 31, 2003 at 17:17.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
EX 10
I wish your Dad had done so! What a great story that would have been! smile...
Al - good to see you!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brady
Steve, I?m fully aware of emotions running high and I can certainly understand where you are coming from. Point well taken. My position was that a ?victim,? in this case a lady, shouldn?t feel embarrassed because she absolutely did nothing wrong. After all, she was a victim and not a willing participant. Also, I can understand the difficultness of one retelling his/her story over and over again. However, my comment was simply a well-meaning exhortation. I know before God?s eyes, she?s pure and I was just trying to appeal to her nature not to feel any embarrassment. It was meant to edify, nothing more. I hope this helps for clarification purposes. Thanks for the observation. Your input has surely helped me clear this up.
Dot, I too understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, there are people who will not understand. At this point of their lives, they don?t have the necessary tools or experiences to discern adequately, but that?s their problem and shortcomings. We stop, teach, share, and move on, and stop again if assistance is needed. Hopefully, they eventually see the light. Some stories, sometimes needs repeating, for the sake of humanity. This is simply a principle that I?m not associating to this thread, although, worth mentioning.
Note: Sometimes, I?m apprehensive to post in forums because it isn?t too difficult for people (including myself) to inadvertently misconstrue statements. We are humans and not seeing a person?s face, reaction, tone, or body language, can surely hinder a well-meaning comment(s). This, I teach my students in my computer classes.
[This message was edited by Brady on December 31, 2003 at 17:33.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
early2it
Continued from last post....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Brady
I think it was duly noted you were just making us feel comfortable and not challanged. I am sure we all felt the kindness in your post. I think Steve was just kinda sharing why we did delete it, I am sure he got your point as your support was obvious.
Thanks for your sweet heart.
Her story shows so much of the man behind the curtain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alfakat
Reading this all again makes my heart ache, again, at the more than immoral, maybe amoral behavior of those who sat upon thrones and proclaimed themselves "leaders and servants" in Christ's stead...I keep thinking of the verse where Lord Jesus says that it would be better that a millstone be hung around the necks of these and they be drowned in the sea than to have offended these little ones...I am so sorry that I saw so little and did less to help these who were in such need.
I so long for the day when this all will be put to rights and put to rest...that it was all done in God's name and somehow justified as liberty in Christ...much worse than the drunk's vomit.
I knew Marsha of the 6th corps pretty well--I was so dense and could not see why she was so turned up-side down our last year in res. My heart goes out to all of you who live with this...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Alfacat
Poor Marsha
I was on limb staff where she was her int. year of the corps.
Everyone bashed her as having devil sprits and not to listen to her because she was loaded with them.....
All designed to have people not believe her if she opened her mouth.
Years later, the same woman that spread lies around about her, did it to me when I did not want to dabble in the inner circle. Man, I feel for Marsha.
They had an area meeting telling everyone I had devils when I confronted an inner circle weirdo about her sexual practices and drunkenness.
It was awful and suicide did cross my mind. I was robbed of dignity and publicly humiliated. I was not believed and set up as a liar. I was told that it would be better to loose one to save many. So, "this woman" sacrificed me. Slaughtered my integrity. And hoped I would take my own life. Today, I think I would sue her.
Anyway, as I sat staring at the nothingness I could hardly speak and suicide kept popping up. Out of nowhere Ex called me and asked, "Are you alright?" I told her "no."
I told her what happened, as I knew she would believe me. She saved my life. She informed me that this woman was one of the BOD party girls etc. She was a big liar and lived for the devil - not God. All the things I had seen... I was not crazy. And I did not kill myself, largely due to the timing of that call.
I still didn't know VPW was at the helm of this wreck. I could not wait to someday tell him about it so he could help this woman and save the ministry from evil.
Then the corps and the coach....
But what that woman did to me plagued me.
Finally, Ralph D told me that that woman did the very same thing to Marsha. And that woman was one of Weirwille's pimps. She did get girls for him. She was the evil one and stood up at an area meeting and told 300 people I had devils because I challenged her horrible anti-christ life style.
Yea, I feel for Marsha.
Years later, I read Marsha's letter and saw she went through the same thing with the same people. As Ralph suggested
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brady
Dot, thanks for the clarification. I didn?t know that something was deleted in relation to exxie when you posted addressing me. Although, your post did say, edited by request of exxie, I sincerely had no clue what it was about. I even responded by saying that I didn?t know the reason for the editing and request for the editing, but I did say that I had faith in the judgment that you both posses. After that, that issue became insignificant to me and didn?t cross my mind at all. It was put to rest. Now that you have mentioned the ?KEY? term ?deleted,? in association to Steve?s post, I am able to see the connection. This is a good example of honest and benign cyberspace miscommunication. Once again, I thank you for the clarification. It?s certainly appreciated
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alfakat
yes, Dot--I know who it was and she always seemed like someone that was running a houselamp on a 220 volt breaker--she, among many(not all) 4th corps women, never seemed quite right to me. I never would have fathomed pimping for vp but I learned many years later, independant of here or Waydale, that it was true. Somehow, it fit with why I always was leery of her, and others, as well.
but on top of all that comes the lying, covering up and slander of the innocents...if it was all so right and cool in the eyes of God; why all the evil collateral damage along the way???? Sounds like end justifies the means, situational ethics BULL-.... to me--exactly what we stood against in the good ole Way inter-NASH, doncha know???
Dot, excie, Sunesis, others---screw all the gaylord fockkers, as excie says/said...don't know where it comes from but I definitely copy the sentiment!! The blind may well remain blind but some have, and will continue to, see the light of day on the sin and destruction wrought by the twisted, inner-circle "jerks" who claimed God and His blessing on all their evil. may He reward them even as Alexander the copersmith in Timothy. And He will not forget those who rebuked the evil, no matter if the sound doctrine was heeded or no.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Gaylord phocker comes from the movie
"Meet the Parents"
Yes, she did act like she owned the red light district. She was a man eating vag_na and she told 300 people I had devils because I could not believe her "walk with God". It consisted of lying to the other female area leader, sleeping with guys she knew for a few minutes at a bar, stealing some of my furniture that my father is still angry about, sacrificing believers so they could have "sex" without reproof, mishandling of money, being drunk, behavior unbecoming of anyone who was to represent God. Now, I am not perfect. But this behavior was out-of-control.
She even walked in on my boyfriend and me with another guy and yelled "switch" and grabbed my guy and I was suppose to be with hers. I had never been more uncomfortable in my life. I introduced her to someone interested in PFAL and she french kissed him. He was insulted by it. It was way out of line.
Then, I get into the corps and see clearly the guy at the helm is our own MOG VPW. It shocked and just wigged me out. I again was fighting thoughts of suicide. I knew if I left they would announce I did so with devils and all my friends and life was all woven in with TWI.
To leave -- well, you would loose so much. Plus I would have to tell my father I failed and he already entertained those thoughts about me. Also, when neighbors went to my parents to tell them TWI was a cult he asked me and I told him it was the best thing that ever happened to me and would be my life. So, he told the neighbors to bug off and supported me -- at the first thing I ever committed to.
I sold my house, I alienated my friends who would not sign the green card, I spent my inheritance on my corps sponsorship...
I did not know how to get out...
Suicide was looking good....
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 31, 2003 at 19:49.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
act2
Dot, check your private topics.
Again, I am so sorry for the pain that you all have gone thru.
I pray to God that justice will prevail.
The decisions we make today form our future.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Brady
You're cool...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
hate me hate me hate me hate me
we have no idea where a person has come from
hate me hate me hate me hate me
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
I know where she came from the beds of the BOD.
I do not care about anything else. She tried to have people kill themselves to keep the dirty secret safe.
She came from hell.
You know how close I was to suicide when God told you to call me...
If you defend her I will defend Weirwille - they are the same to me. She was a recruiter, maybe a victim at first, but like a rapist who rapes because he was raped does not preclude them from the guilt. He would still be responsible for the crime. If you defend her then you must let LCM off the hook -- same thing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alfakat
excie--you do understand I was klueless as to where the quote "gaylord fockkers" originated?? right???
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alfakat
I concur, Dot--she was not responseable for actions perpetrated on her but she did NOT need to embrace the dark side of the force--which she most obviously did....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
When I was in the corpse there was a woman that was in an earlier corpse that I became friends with. I learned to really like her and trust her. One day while we were walking she shared some things about being in the rv with vpw. She backed off after seeing that I was totally horrified. She no longer was interested in being my friend.
Not too long after that I was kicked out of the corpse. Coincidence? Maybe.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Which brings us to another point.....
VPW and LCM were not the only "players" in the secret sex game. There were MANY other men, leaders, as well as women, who perpetrated the whole thing. VP defintely had his share of "enablers."
I think many of the people who read this forum may think that it was only LCM, or maybe only LCM and VP who were serial adulterers and abusers. And that just ain't true. There were many others involved in taking advantage of their "position." What about them? Are they excused? like VP is by his apologists?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alfakat
I think not, miss vickles---seems I remember the same chicken-.... accusation being thrown at you as at Dot....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Gotta tell you K Mal------ of the 3 or4th corps was into that life style up to his neck being under him was another horrible year of my life.
But when he found out the "stuff" was wrong. He repented and wrote a letter to all the corps girls he hurt in Pennsylvania. He got it to people in off-shoots and it got to me anyway.
I completely forgave him and respect him for admitting he was wrong and apologizing for the pain he caused. He is an example of how to take responsibility and change the course of the destruction he caused.
Kudos KM!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.