Its always the same one or two people who just don't get it.
I think if one of these men ever got raped, would they think they willingly allowed it to happen? Would it be their fault because they were asking for it? No, I think they'd be singing a different tune altogether.
If someone has no empathy, let them remain dweebs.
If VPW got to teach you anything for God it is not because God would not tell you Himself. It is because God was trying to SUCCOR VPW The problem was VPW forgot how God helped him like so many before and after him did.
Never think that God needs you He does not you need Him He only loves you. The fools in Ohio think nobody can really know Gods will without their mouths to speak it or their class to teach it. They have forgotten God. That is their sin and the sin we all fear in our bones.
The morning after the end of the ROA,(early 90's) with the WOW's packing to leave for their destinations.
We are on Headquarters grounds. I'm with my sons 20 year old wife helping her pack the car to leave for a southern state, as WOW's. As we are walking to their car, Howard Allen walks up to us with the initial appearance of being happy; and states to my daughter in law that she sure married a tall lanky guy (meaning me). (We just chuckled, in amasement) Now my daughter in laws parents had worked for the way for 26 years. She also worked, part-time for the way. Howard also knew my son.
After the initial statements, he began to insult me (thinking I was her husband). It reminded me of the teenage years when a rival boy, who didn't get the girl, just had to lash out and childishly condemn to prove their manhood.
As I looked at Howard, I saw that he was wobbleing around and trying to keep his balance.
That Sonofabitch was stonecold DRUNK,at 10am in the morning, on the very day he was to send off the WOW's.
Early: God is not logical??? If that's true then the bible is useless. How could David write "order my steps in thy word" if there's no order? I will concede that God's logic supercedes human logic. It says "my ways are higher than your ways, my thoughts than your thoughts" but God is quite logical and he expects us to be so about his word.
Suneisis: Actually, I have been sexually assaulted. I shared it on a thread a few months ago, but, no, I didn't do anything that "asked for it" in my own thinking. I trusted the wrong people: at 18 while at a party, and at 20 while hitchhiking. It was extremely humiliating, but I have not let it plague me. Is it really easier for a guy to say that? We're the ones who are supposed to be "tougher than thou". You had WHAT happen to you??? You must be QUEEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!! Try overcoming that!
You mentioned it being hard to believe evil things about someone you love. I can understand that. But I suggest that you didn?t really love Wierwille, because you never knew him. Sure, you loved the image Wierwille put forth, but that image was a lie. The evidence is incontrovertible, and doesn?t depend on anything anyone has said about his behavior towards others. Just what?s mentioned in the thread about the PFAL class being stolen is more than enough proof. (I realize that it?s not fully documented on that thread, but the documentation exists, and is accessible.)
You didn?t love Wierwille. You loved an illusion fostered by his long-term, intentional, evil deception. That you believed the illusion when you were not confronted with facts is understandable. That you continue to hold onto it in the face of all the facts of which you are now aware is not. What was once Wierwille?s lie seems to have become your delusion.
[This message was edited by Long Gone on December 31, 2003 at 12:27.]
Actually, you could kind of see it onstage as well. To his credit, PFAL was a slick piece of salesmanship--good enough to hook us all, at one point. But listening to some of his older tapes again, you can hear the dictator over the salesman. He'd go off on a rant and everyone would lap it up. "Dass riiiight!" Martindale never knew when to temper his froth with a little song-n-dance, so it was much easier to recognize in him.
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
They sure as heck did drink at all hours! I believe you.
Ex - That is probably why there were no charges or investigations regarding "being drugged" it is hard to prove the drink was laced without the glass and years after it left your system.
But when you described what happened to you and were concerned that it may have happened I do think it is questionable, as we discussed.
Why else the hazy almost not lucid, non-functioning disassociation after drinking it? And that time his advances were successful (assault- your last words to him were no!) because you were too out of it to fight him back. All the other times you escaped. Makes sense to me.... But there is no proof only conjecture, however when we saw what Marsha said it blew my mind that it was so hazy and similar to what happened to you...
I do not put it past him.
I forgot you pretended not to wake up when he returned to resume. Wow, what a pig.
I am so glad when he hunted for me to go on a three day trip with him that he could not find me. I rarely left grounds at HQS. but I did that day. When I came back I was told VPW had been looking everywhere for me to go with him on the three -day. One person said "Didn't God tell you to come back?" Another said something like, "You blew it. You could have been with the man of God..."
I was praising God in my head and thinking God worked it out for me to leave. Praise God!!!
I tell you I would have been in jail or the hospital if that fart jumped me. And if I were drugged and recovered, I may have called the police, I dunno. That or had a melt down and need a dribble cup.
I think it maybe more about how they look at VPW. (maybe) I know before I saw the corruption I was in awe. Heck, He got an audible promise that he would be taught the word as it had not been taught since the first century!
Okay
1. God spoke audibly! IT blew my mind! I had been in churches begging to hear his voice, Prayed on my knees seeking answers... I never Heard it audibly -- I wanted in on that stuff! Or to be near the man who heard it!
2. Then, he was going to be taught....1st century. I had been to all kinds of churches looking for some sense out of the Bible. So, I wanted that.
I was sold. The class did HELP me and twig was sweet -- if I did not go in the corps I would be hard pressed to believe anything I am saying.
But after hearing it over and over - heck even Ralph believed it when 11 girls told him.... and he loved Weirwille.
So, I wonder if they would think of it the same way if their daughter went to hear Billy Grahm and got to spend some time with him and returned home near dysfunctional and blank. If they watched their kid decline and when they finally got the poor kid to speak -- she said, "I was with Mr. Grahm and he gave me a drink. I felt funny afterward not right -- hazy and zombie like... Then, he climbed on me... And Daddy, I did not want him to, I tried to scream but my mouth was not working everything was weird and I could not stop him."
Would one say to their kid, "You liar, you speak for the devil because that man loves God and I have heard him on television for years and always got something from his broadcasts."
Or would they go kick hiss a$$ or call the police?
I love what Diazbro always says - why do we tolerated behavior from Weirwille we would not tolerate in our friends, neighbors, or ourselves?
Dot, thank you for your kind acknowledgement. I have no idea why you edited or why Exxie made such request, but I totally have faith on the judgment that you both possess.
Ms. Excathedra, you have no reason to be embarrassed. You did absolutely nothing wrong! You were one amongst many who felt victim to a phony such as VPW.
Sometimes here on the board if you say - I was forced... Someone will say well you could have left, was there a gun to your head? It gets very ugly for some of the girls who were in this type of situation.
Well, GS patrons, I believe Dot and Excath and the others. It was very hard at first reading these posts, and it IS very hard NOW reading these posts. I am so sorry that these loving women went thru the nightmares that they have shared with us.
I think to myself sometimes: IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME!!!!! I wasnt appealing enough to the MOG's!!! So glad that I wasnt !!!!! So glad that I never went into the WC even though I was told by many to go!!!!
Dot, check your private topics, please!!!!
My heart aches for you ladies. No matter how long it has been, it is like yesterday. And to re-live it so others will know the TRUTH has to take much courage and determination.
ohmygosh i wasn't appealing !!!!! i was just vulnerable or something i guess. i told wierwille about being sexually abused as a girl and everything. told him he was my "father." puke.
it still shocks me that he would have a lustful interest knowing my heart soul past whatever you call it.
that kind of betrayal is the worst.
of course i'm not a young girl anymore. but i've even known adults who really look up to their ministers and therapists and get into a "love" (sexual) relationship.
people who are entrusted with that kind of privilege really really have a lot to think about and answer to.
Act2, it wasn't just a matter of appeal. They also knew who to target - they had a very fine homing instinct for the right kind of person.
Steve!, you are so right. It wasnt just their outward appearance that they looked for, it was a precious young lady who might be vulnerable and OBEY the MOG's demands.
You were a knock out - who are you fooling. You were probably too hot for him!
I was average attractive and I had a little bit of a racey "Birth to the corps" paper.
(I just told of my first love and it read like a romance novel, where two people did a little pot and loved madly.) So, I think he read it and oh I dunno....
took out my compliment to Excathedra due to a nasty comment made by Sunny1
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 03, 2004 at 5:40.]
You are right, I know it is about power etc. Mr. Dot did a college paper on it.
Did you know people who are raped are most likely raped again? A kind of 4th dimentional signal in the air for predators to smell...
Your past was definitely perfume to him -- but being built like freakin' Marilyn Monroe didn't turn him off either. It made his ill appetite much worse. He would not stop with you even to the point where you drank something and had an odd reaction. He wanted you like a stalker... It was very weird.
I was a little wild (within guidelines however) and he wanted to tame me I think. IT was all about power and control where I was I think.
But the last time he tried to "get" me I was getting into my twenties and he lost interest, I am guessing. He barked at me "Show me your legs" I had on a dress. Before you know it I rolled up my dress to show them. I have no idea why I did it - he just scared the sh it out of me and I responded by obedience. Then, he asked how old I was now? I told him (twenty something) and he said, "You are no spring chicken."
Unless I am wrong that was the last time he tried...
But, your past was definitely perfume to him -- but being built like freakin' Marilyn Monroe didn't turn him off either. It made his ill appetite much worse. He would not stop with you even to the point where you drank something and had an odd reaction. He wanted you like a stalker... It was very weird.
Dot and Ex, of course you are right. Being vulnerable AND HOT looking did help, I would think. That made you all the more desirable in their eyes.
Thanks for your sweet words, Dot, Steve!, and Ex. I missed you all while I was away.
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Sunesis
Don't worry, I don't need to remove my post.
Its always the same one or two people who just don't get it.
I think if one of these men ever got raped, would they think they willingly allowed it to happen? Would it be their fault because they were asking for it? No, I think they'd be singing a different tune altogether.
If someone has no empathy, let them remain dweebs.
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early2it
Continued from last post....
If VPW got to teach you anything for God it is not because God would not tell you Himself. It is because God was trying to SUCCOR VPW The problem was VPW forgot how God helped him like so many before and after him did.
Never think that God needs you He does not you need Him He only loves you. The fools in Ohio think nobody can really know Gods will without their mouths to speak it or their class to teach it. They have forgotten God. That is their sin and the sin we all fear in our bones.
Continued on next post....
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early2it
Continued from last post....
Have pity for them they will not be relieved of their confusion it is a blessing in their minds eye. Just remember it is a thorn in Gods.
Forgive the multiple post please it is the only way I am able to post.
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excathedra
thank you early, i love what you said
?
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Lightside
The morning after the end of the ROA,(early 90's) with the WOW's packing to leave for their destinations.
We are on Headquarters grounds. I'm with my sons 20 year old wife helping her pack the car to leave for a southern state, as WOW's. As we are walking to their car, Howard Allen walks up to us with the initial appearance of being happy; and states to my daughter in law that she sure married a tall lanky guy (meaning me). (We just chuckled, in amasement) Now my daughter in laws parents had worked for the way for 26 years. She also worked, part-time for the way. Howard also knew my son.
After the initial statements, he began to insult me (thinking I was her husband). It reminded me of the teenage years when a rival boy, who didn't get the girl, just had to lash out and childishly condemn to prove their manhood.
As I looked at Howard, I saw that he was wobbleing around and trying to keep his balance.
That Sonofabitch was stonecold DRUNK,at 10am in the morning, on the very day he was to send off the WOW's.
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johniam
Early: God is not logical??? If that's true then the bible is useless. How could David write "order my steps in thy word" if there's no order? I will concede that God's logic supercedes human logic. It says "my ways are higher than your ways, my thoughts than your thoughts" but God is quite logical and he expects us to be so about his word.
Suneisis: Actually, I have been sexually assaulted. I shared it on a thread a few months ago, but, no, I didn't do anything that "asked for it" in my own thinking. I trusted the wrong people: at 18 while at a party, and at 20 while hitchhiking. It was extremely humiliating, but I have not let it plague me. Is it really easier for a guy to say that? We're the ones who are supposed to be "tougher than thou". You had WHAT happen to you??? You must be QUEEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!! Try overcoming that!
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LG
Oldiesman,
You mentioned it being hard to believe evil things about someone you love. I can understand that. But I suggest that you didn?t really love Wierwille, because you never knew him. Sure, you loved the image Wierwille put forth, but that image was a lie. The evidence is incontrovertible, and doesn?t depend on anything anyone has said about his behavior towards others. Just what?s mentioned in the thread about the PFAL class being stolen is more than enough proof. (I realize that it?s not fully documented on that thread, but the documentation exists, and is accessible.)
You didn?t love Wierwille. You loved an illusion fostered by his long-term, intentional, evil deception. That you believed the illusion when you were not confronted with facts is understandable. That you continue to hold onto it in the face of all the facts of which you are now aware is not. What was once Wierwille?s lie seems to have become your delusion.
[This message was edited by Long Gone on December 31, 2003 at 12:27.]
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TheInvisibleDan
Interesting insight Long Gone.
Onstage he was that Mr. So-lid Goo-ber, hip, huma-nity-loving prea-cher guy.
Offstage, yikes.
Maybe he actually did have two personalities.
"Dr. Wierwille and Mr.Hide"
Danny
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Zixar
Actually, you could kind of see it onstage as well. To his credit, PFAL was a slick piece of salesmanship--good enough to hook us all, at one point. But listening to some of his older tapes again, you can hear the dictator over the salesman. He'd go off on a rant and everyone would lap it up. "Dass riiiight!" Martindale never knew when to temper his froth with a little song-n-dance, so it was much easier to recognize in him.
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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Dot Matrix
Lightside
They sure as heck did drink at all hours! I believe you.
Ex - That is probably why there were no charges or investigations regarding "being drugged" it is hard to prove the drink was laced without the glass and years after it left your system.
But when you described what happened to you and were concerned that it may have happened I do think it is questionable, as we discussed.
Why else the hazy almost not lucid, non-functioning disassociation after drinking it? And that time his advances were successful (assault- your last words to him were no!) because you were too out of it to fight him back. All the other times you escaped. Makes sense to me.... But there is no proof only conjecture, however when we saw what Marsha said it blew my mind that it was so hazy and similar to what happened to you...
I do not put it past him.
I forgot you pretended not to wake up when he returned to resume. Wow, what a pig.
I am so glad when he hunted for me to go on a three day trip with him that he could not find me. I rarely left grounds at HQS. but I did that day. When I came back I was told VPW had been looking everywhere for me to go with him on the three -day. One person said "Didn't God tell you to come back?" Another said something like, "You blew it. You could have been with the man of God..."
I was praising God in my head and thinking God worked it out for me to leave. Praise God!!!
I tell you I would have been in jail or the hospital if that fart jumped me. And if I were drugged and recovered, I may have called the police, I dunno. That or had a melt down and need a dribble cup.
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Dot Matrix
Sunesis
I think it maybe more about how they look at VPW. (maybe) I know before I saw the corruption I was in awe. Heck, He got an audible promise that he would be taught the word as it had not been taught since the first century!
Okay
1. God spoke audibly! IT blew my mind! I had been in churches begging to hear his voice, Prayed on my knees seeking answers... I never Heard it audibly -- I wanted in on that stuff! Or to be near the man who heard it!
2. Then, he was going to be taught....1st century. I had been to all kinds of churches looking for some sense out of the Bible. So, I wanted that.
I was sold. The class did HELP me and twig was sweet -- if I did not go in the corps I would be hard pressed to believe anything I am saying.
But after hearing it over and over - heck even Ralph believed it when 11 girls told him.... and he loved Weirwille.
So, I wonder if they would think of it the same way if their daughter went to hear Billy Grahm and got to spend some time with him and returned home near dysfunctional and blank. If they watched their kid decline and when they finally got the poor kid to speak -- she said, "I was with Mr. Grahm and he gave me a drink. I felt funny afterward not right -- hazy and zombie like... Then, he climbed on me... And Daddy, I did not want him to, I tried to scream but my mouth was not working everything was weird and I could not stop him."
Would one say to their kid, "You liar, you speak for the devil because that man loves God and I have heard him on television for years and always got something from his broadcasts."
Or would they go kick hiss a$$ or call the police?
I love what Diazbro always says - why do we tolerated behavior from Weirwille we would not tolerate in our friends, neighbors, or ourselves?
Long gone and Zixar - good posts!
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Brady
Dot, thank you for your kind acknowledgement. I have no idea why you edited or why Exxie made such request, but I totally have faith on the judgment that you both possess.
Ms. Excathedra, you have no reason to be embarrassed. You did absolutely nothing wrong! You were one amongst many who felt victim to a phony such as VPW.
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Steve!
Brady, it's simple.
This topic causes emotions to run high. In this kind of situation, many times the victim takes a lot of heat.
Also the retelling of the story brings it back up like it was yesterday.
Would you like to relive and retell your worst moments over and over again?
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excathedra
thanks guys (all inclusive)
:)--> you're great
?
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Dot Matrix
Brady you are sweet.
Sometimes here on the board if you say - I was forced... Someone will say well you could have left, was there a gun to your head? It gets very ugly for some of the girls who were in this type of situation.
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act2
Well, GS patrons, I believe Dot and Excath and the others. It was very hard at first reading these posts, and it IS very hard NOW reading these posts. I am so sorry that these loving women went thru the nightmares that they have shared with us.
I think to myself sometimes: IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME!!!!! I wasnt appealing enough to the MOG's!!! So glad that I wasnt !!!!! So glad that I never went into the WC even though I was told by many to go!!!!
Dot, check your private topics, please!!!!
My heart aches for you ladies. No matter how long it has been, it is like yesterday. And to re-live it so others will know the TRUTH has to take much courage and determination.
I applaud you for telling it like it was.
You are in my prayers.
The decisions we make today form our future.
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Steve!
Act2, it wasn't just a matter of appeal. They also knew who to target - they had a very fine homing instinct for the right kind of person.
Don't sell yourself short, you ain't all that bad lookin'.
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excathedra
ohmygosh i wasn't appealing !!!!! i was just vulnerable or something i guess. i told wierwille about being sexually abused as a girl and everything. told him he was my "father." puke.
it still shocks me that he would have a lustful interest knowing my heart soul past whatever you call it.
that kind of betrayal is the worst.
of course i'm not a young girl anymore. but i've even known adults who really look up to their ministers and therapists and get into a "love" (sexual) relationship.
people who are entrusted with that kind of privilege really really have a lot to think about and answer to.
?
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act2
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excathedra
stevie, actdearest and i -- we were all posting at the same time
:)-->
?
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Dot Matrix
Acts 2
You were a knock out - who are you fooling. You were probably too hot for him!
I was average attractive and I had a little bit of a racey "Birth to the corps" paper.
(I just told of my first love and it read like a romance novel, where two people did a little pot and loved madly.) So, I think he read it and oh I dunno....
took out my compliment to Excathedra due to a nasty comment made by Sunny1
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 03, 2004 at 5:40.]
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excathedra
it's about power, control, illness
not really about sex and certainly nothing about love
which is what we all (well, me) need the most
?
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Dot Matrix
You are right, I know it is about power etc. Mr. Dot did a college paper on it.
Did you know people who are raped are most likely raped again? A kind of 4th dimentional signal in the air for predators to smell...
Your past was definitely perfume to him -- but being built like freakin' Marilyn Monroe didn't turn him off either. It made his ill appetite much worse. He would not stop with you even to the point where you drank something and had an odd reaction. He wanted you like a stalker... It was very weird.
I was a little wild (within guidelines however) and he wanted to tame me I think. IT was all about power and control where I was I think.
But the last time he tried to "get" me I was getting into my twenties and he lost interest, I am guessing. He barked at me "Show me your legs" I had on a dress. Before you know it I rolled up my dress to show them. I have no idea why I did it - he just scared the sh it out of me and I responded by obedience. Then, he asked how old I was now? I told him (twenty something) and he said, "You are no spring chicken."
Unless I am wrong that was the last time he tried...
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act2
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