I?m a bit distraught and troubled after careful readings of some of the content of this thread. And, I feel somewhat compelled to make a brief comment in regards to what has been imparted and shared in this forum. I really don?t like to address this topic because it?s disturbing to me; therefore, I?m not going to get into many details. SORRY. Also, since I have no anonymity and I want to protect others, I will be a bit vague because I don?t want to give anything away. That said, I could only imagine what it did/does to people who were actually victims of VPW and LCM. I don?t know ex or Dot, but I don?t question their integrity because I too know first hand some of VPW and LCM improprieties in using women for their own [sexual (LCM)] gain. You can believe or disbelieve the following, that?s your privilege and prerogative. Moreover, I most likely will not entertain any questions nor engage in this subject further after speaking my peace. I am only aware of one possible sexual liaison that VPW had and one that LCM surely managed to catalog. I have heard lots of rumors, and some were from people who I considered at the time, to be reliable. On the other hand, for the sake of accuracy and integrity, I can only testify to two accounts that I have no doubt that are true.
VPW affair (plutonic?) occurred with someone who became very close to me to the point she in a very confiding manner, yet, brief, told me that she was often discreetly summoned to give VPW body rubs. Much of it took place in the coach, she said. She didn?t mention the word sex but she left me somewhat perplexed by the way she said it, as she was attending to the needs of the MOG sort of speak. For what I now know of VPW, I wouldn?t be surprised if a sexual attempt occurred or even came to pass. Also, what is interesting is that this lady was obviously indeed a very sexual person, so, I am simply making a logical observation. Even if it wasn?t sexual, I wonder why their encounters were hidden.
Another interesting observation is that I wouldn?t be surprised if ?some? whether they were brainwashed to believe they were doing a good deed or were actually turned on, felt blessed or somewhat important by servicing either VPW/LCM. That?s the impression I got from this lady. Additionally, ?Some? ladies do get turned on by men who have power, or even by ugly rock stars/celebrities (lol). I think you catch my drift/gist. Please note that I used the term ?some.? However, I am totally convinced that most, who yielded to VPW/LCM, were victims, used for personal [sexual] gain without taking into account, their heart, soul, and spirit. Without a doubt, these men misused their power and hurt a lot of women in many ways.
Focusing on LCM, I do have solid evidence that he had sexual encounters with a lady for several years. There came a time when this person and I were beginning to hang out together and one evening I was asked to guard the coach, so I stood by its door. Well, this person came out and freaked out and ran away when she saw me standing by the door of the coach. I knew then that something was very wrong. Couple days afterwards, when I saw her, I asked her what was wrong because I noticed that she was still acting weird and was in much pain. She totally spilled out her guts to me. She provided me with graphical sexual details on what had occurred inside the coach that night as well as to what happened throughout the weekend of LCM itinerary. She also furnished me with lots of data in regards to having many sexual encounters with LCM in Headquarters. She told me that she was in love with him and that he gave her the impression that he was going to leave Donna for her. She also stated that she left her husband because LCM said it was best since her husband was not a strong participant in TWI.
In short, she felt used at times, yet she had hope because after this incident, she entered the Way Corps and was hoping to eventually be near LCM. Ironic. Shortly after this ordeal, we naturally drifted away from each other. She mentioned that she had a very strong suspicion of another lady having sexual relationships with LCM because she frequently visited the coach. After her sexual encounters with LCM that weekend, he sent her $500.00, so she said. My first though was, oh he got the money from the Abundant Sharing. She said that Ed G. was the one who arranged their [sexual] encounters on the coach.
After gathering a wealth of information on LCM impious behaviors, I eventually realized that most of the leadership must have been in denial for a long time and I also became aware that some covered for him. This situation took place in March of ?86 way before the emerging of events known now to have toppled LCM from the presidency. In fact, I tried to talk to the region coordinator about the aforementioned events, but he refused to hear me. He knew that I was cognizant of the situation in regards to this lady as he was, so he avoided me. By then, I was already M&A, way before the term M&A became popular and marking and avoiding those who TWI felt threatened by became the norm. I just hope she?s okay now. I technically left TWI mid ?85 shortly after VPW death, although, by ?84 I began to question the organization. I totally ceased from participation after this incident. One of the best decisions I have made.
I hope the preceding can be of help to some. As I stated in the beginning of this posting, I have no anonymity but it?s important to state facts that may help some.
[This message was edited by Brady on December 30, 2003 at 9:28.]
Does Ms. Liberty use the bible as her source of authority and truth? Because as far as I know, the bible doesn't give a pass to those who are complicit and initiate adultery and fornication.
There you go again, twisting things in order to shift blame away from your precious "man of God."
Nobody has suggested that "those who are complicit and initiate adultery and fornication" should be given a pass. That has never been the issue. There have been two basic issues. The one that is of general concern is "knowing them [self-styled "men of God"] by their fruits. The one that is of concern to many is dealing with the consequences of being duped and used by someone who represented himself as, and who they believed was, God's minister.
If trust is abused to leverage someone into a compromising situation which would otherwise be at least distasteful and exploitive and at most totally abusive; IT WILL NEVER BE OKAY.
In my not so humble, but strongly felt opinion, neither men should be excused.
Why all the effort to protect VPW's reputation, dude? I mean, is he really that important to protect? Like 'the integrity of God's Word' was totally dependant on him? Like God can't do any better than VPW to make known His Word? Damn guy, you must not give much credance to God's skills if that's the case. -->
Face it. He had his chance to make something good and godly of himself. He f***ed up, both himself and many others. (((buzzer sounds loudly))) Too bad, so sad, ... VPW lost.
Try again. And may I suggest this time with someone more credible.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
The problem is that there is NO evidence that either Dot Matrix or Excathedra were complicit in ANY WAY. I think both of them would swear on any Bible you gave them that neither had any sexual interest in VPW whatsoever prior to their abuse.
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
In case anybody forgot, the first post on this thread asked the following question.
So what's your problem with Martindale then?
Sure he was crude and obnoxious, and engaged in many sins, but Wierwille put the skunk pelt on him, certifying him as a MOG; shouldn't we overlook his sins too?
I would like to submit my answer to the question since this "epistle" is addressed to me. It's not what Martindale did, it's what he didn't do.
During my lifetime there have been many incidents with people attached to them which have made powerful impressions on me. The first one I can remember outside my schools and family is the Beatles. I was 9 when they first toured the US and I thought they were galaxies above other groups.
Since then, several groups, athletes and other celebrities have duplicated this, including VPW. He came into my life at a time when I was troubled and needed direction and he gave it to me exponentially. I've posted this all before, but, again, no amount of money could have equalled the positive impact in my life I got from PFAL. Martindale never did that. He was like Bob Dole. During the last year or so of Reagan's presidency just about every time you'd see Reagan on TV there was Dole walking right behind him with his nose sticking up his butt. That was "Jethro Martindale" the double naught MOG.
The last time a celebrity got to me that way was in 2001. I only went to 2 Cardinal games the whole year. One of them featured Mark McGwire hitting a home run off Greg Maddux over the center field wall. Wow!!! If I read something awful about MM I'll feel bad, but he sure gave me a once in a lifetime feeling that night.
So, I'm not really trying to excuse VPW's hypocrisy. He did it! I'm also not pretending that the positive impact he had in my life doesn't exist anymore. He did that, too. However, I still value his overall contribution to my life. Don't I have the right to do that?
My answer to this question is based on my time in TWI 88-00 and personal observations. Take this as a disclaimer or ownership - whichever suits you.
Martindale seemed to leave a wake of destruction during his administration which is still being felt today. Families were split up during the homo purge, homes that would have increased in value were sold to get rid of debt, and standards that were almost unobtainable were set for people to follow. "Ye shall know them by their fruit." If he'd had as many meetings, outings, reporting-backs, reading Way Rags, listening to STS tapes, etc. AND working, AND family, he'd have been too tired to play patty cake.
VPW seemed more human - I've heard conflicting stories about what he was like, but from the 78 (?) Advanced Class tapes I saw, he seemed venerable at times. Again, I never met him - he had died before I came aboard.
LCM was too proud to show that side of himself. It would be 'admitting weakness'. I mean, the man thought he was freakin' Joshua, fer cryin' out loud! What an ultra-maroon! But yet, he didn't have the discipline - he lost his cool all the time in the name of "godly" anger - when he was really just a hot-head.
Finally, I've found in reviewing this topic, I really don't feel I have issues with either 'leader' but with the snow job or damage control that took place after certain things were brought to light. I'm talking about the lawsuit and LCM - TWI was busier than a cat in a litterbox trying to cover that load of crap.
IF they had just said HE DID IT. And if he had said he was SORRY and taken appropriate ownership for his actions, I don't think TWI would have seen the decline in numbers it saw. I do approve of the fact they de-throned the stinker. I don't approve of the fact that his 'family' is still there or that he wasn't M&A'ed as was done to others who did far less...
Yup, Martindale was an idiot who didn't have the watts to figure out that he could keep the TWI scam going if he came across as a "leader", rather than a tyrant.
He foolishly and vainly thought that the skunk pelt and the acompanying spiritual claptrap would render him immune to any dissension. The lesson he learned from the Geer pseudo-coup was to be more of a jerk, not be more godly-seeming, as his mentor did.
Wierwille, despite all the sexual abuse, lying, plagarism, behind-the-scenes politicking, bullying and whatever else, generally did not present himself publically like that.
Wierwille crafted a persona that made it difficult to believe that he would do the things that he was accused of doing, Martindale's public persona created an atmoshere where we wanted to believe anything bad that we heard about him, his own public face made it that much more plausible.
Wierwille got what he wanted by leveraging and manipulating, Martindale got what he wanted by bellowing orders and bludgeoning people over the head with TWI's version of God and his own MOGship.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Hmm...one was an obnoxious crook and the other smiled while he did the same things.
Can't say a jury would care about the nice public persona. I'm sure the RC priests we've read about were viewed as kindly leaders of God's people. Heck, they typically looked like the sweet grandfatherly type. IMO, that is more devious in that it works better to ensnare the innocent.
No, my post was not in response to what you wrote. In fact, I'm sorry. I got carried away on a bottle of red wine. And I'm sure that 2027 is a very nice person.
I looked at your profile and saw that next to the catagory "What is your purpose in life?:" You wrote "get as honest as possible"
Linda, I know that if you hadn't heard any of these things about VP Wierwille before now, that they may seem unbelieveable. But I believe they are true, and the folks writing are being honest!
I used to highly esteem VPW, and when I started hearing this stuff, it was upsetting, but the more I investigated the more I found out that these stories are true.
If I had the same mindset as I had in say 1985, I probably would have reacted as you did Linda, and perhaps even stronger, because at that time I felt VP Wierwille was the "Man of God" and that he was taught the Word by God "like it hadn't been known since the 1st century." and I thought that VPW was my "Father in the Word"
Please take some time to read, pray about, and ask people who are in the know.
Ask People that were in a position to know about this. As Dot said, John Lynn is an excellent resource, so are other former TWI leaders like Ralph Dubifsky or Dale Sides.
I have purposely tried to stay away from this thread, but, I guess I'm giving in to temptation here.
VPW was/is one of the most sick and twisted people I've ever known in my life. The damage he did to so many lives is almost unfathomable.
If anybody really truly believes that he was the cause of any "good" that came out of his organization, after knowing about the pure evil and havoc he wreaked in the lives of innocent congregants, well, I feel very sorry for you.
well i think i have to say thank you sister ex :)-->
it is very very difficult to try and express that yes there were some decent "principles" in pfal and yet the years of trying to get over the abuse.... just doesn't level out for me
but i don't know if i should expect people to understand
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
68
96
22
28
Popular Days
Dec 31
88
Jan 1
83
Dec 29
58
Dec 30
48
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 68 posts
Dot Matrix 96 posts
Oakspear 22 posts
early2it 28 posts
Popular Days
Dec 31 2003
88 posts
Jan 1 2004
83 posts
Dec 29 2003
58 posts
Dec 30 2003
48 posts
Brady
I?m a bit distraught and troubled after careful readings of some of the content of this thread. And, I feel somewhat compelled to make a brief comment in regards to what has been imparted and shared in this forum. I really don?t like to address this topic because it?s disturbing to me; therefore, I?m not going to get into many details. SORRY. Also, since I have no anonymity and I want to protect others, I will be a bit vague because I don?t want to give anything away. That said, I could only imagine what it did/does to people who were actually victims of VPW and LCM. I don?t know ex or Dot, but I don?t question their integrity because I too know first hand some of VPW and LCM improprieties in using women for their own [sexual (LCM)] gain. You can believe or disbelieve the following, that?s your privilege and prerogative. Moreover, I most likely will not entertain any questions nor engage in this subject further after speaking my peace. I am only aware of one possible sexual liaison that VPW had and one that LCM surely managed to catalog. I have heard lots of rumors, and some were from people who I considered at the time, to be reliable. On the other hand, for the sake of accuracy and integrity, I can only testify to two accounts that I have no doubt that are true.
VPW affair (plutonic?) occurred with someone who became very close to me to the point she in a very confiding manner, yet, brief, told me that she was often discreetly summoned to give VPW body rubs. Much of it took place in the coach, she said. She didn?t mention the word sex but she left me somewhat perplexed by the way she said it, as she was attending to the needs of the MOG sort of speak. For what I now know of VPW, I wouldn?t be surprised if a sexual attempt occurred or even came to pass. Also, what is interesting is that this lady was obviously indeed a very sexual person, so, I am simply making a logical observation. Even if it wasn?t sexual, I wonder why their encounters were hidden.
Another interesting observation is that I wouldn?t be surprised if ?some? whether they were brainwashed to believe they were doing a good deed or were actually turned on, felt blessed or somewhat important by servicing either VPW/LCM. That?s the impression I got from this lady. Additionally, ?Some? ladies do get turned on by men who have power, or even by ugly rock stars/celebrities (lol). I think you catch my drift/gist. Please note that I used the term ?some.? However, I am totally convinced that most, who yielded to VPW/LCM, were victims, used for personal [sexual] gain without taking into account, their heart, soul, and spirit. Without a doubt, these men misused their power and hurt a lot of women in many ways.
Focusing on LCM, I do have solid evidence that he had sexual encounters with a lady for several years. There came a time when this person and I were beginning to hang out together and one evening I was asked to guard the coach, so I stood by its door. Well, this person came out and freaked out and ran away when she saw me standing by the door of the coach. I knew then that something was very wrong. Couple days afterwards, when I saw her, I asked her what was wrong because I noticed that she was still acting weird and was in much pain. She totally spilled out her guts to me. She provided me with graphical sexual details on what had occurred inside the coach that night as well as to what happened throughout the weekend of LCM itinerary. She also furnished me with lots of data in regards to having many sexual encounters with LCM in Headquarters. She told me that she was in love with him and that he gave her the impression that he was going to leave Donna for her. She also stated that she left her husband because LCM said it was best since her husband was not a strong participant in TWI.
In short, she felt used at times, yet she had hope because after this incident, she entered the Way Corps and was hoping to eventually be near LCM. Ironic. Shortly after this ordeal, we naturally drifted away from each other. She mentioned that she had a very strong suspicion of another lady having sexual relationships with LCM because she frequently visited the coach. After her sexual encounters with LCM that weekend, he sent her $500.00, so she said. My first though was, oh he got the money from the Abundant Sharing. She said that Ed G. was the one who arranged their [sexual] encounters on the coach.
After gathering a wealth of information on LCM impious behaviors, I eventually realized that most of the leadership must have been in denial for a long time and I also became aware that some covered for him. This situation took place in March of ?86 way before the emerging of events known now to have toppled LCM from the presidency. In fact, I tried to talk to the region coordinator about the aforementioned events, but he refused to hear me. He knew that I was cognizant of the situation in regards to this lady as he was, so he avoided me. By then, I was already M&A, way before the term M&A became popular and marking and avoiding those who TWI felt threatened by became the norm. I just hope she?s okay now. I technically left TWI mid ?85 shortly after VPW death, although, by ?84 I began to question the organization. I totally ceased from participation after this incident. One of the best decisions I have made.
I hope the preceding can be of help to some. As I stated in the beginning of this posting, I have no anonymity but it?s important to state facts that may help some.
[This message was edited by Brady on December 30, 2003 at 9:28.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Nobody has suggested that "those who are complicit and initiate adultery and fornication" should be given a pass. That has never been the issue. There have been two basic issues. The one that is of general concern is "knowing them [self-styled "men of God"] by their fruits. The one that is of concern to many is dealing with the consequences of being duped and used by someone who represented himself as, and who they believed was, God's minister.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
washingtonweather
If trust is abused to leverage someone into a compromising situation which would otherwise be at least distasteful and exploitive and at most totally abusive; IT WILL NEVER BE OKAY.
In my not so humble, but strongly felt opinion, neither men should be excused.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Oldies, (and any other VPW apologists)
Why all the effort to protect VPW's reputation, dude? I mean, is he really that important to protect? Like 'the integrity of God's Word' was totally dependant on him? Like God can't do any better than VPW to make known His Word? Damn guy, you must not give much credance to God's skills if that's the case.
-->
Face it. He had his chance to make something good and godly of himself. He f***ed up, both himself and many others. (((buzzer sounds loudly))) Too bad, so sad, ... VPW lost.
Try again. And may I suggest this time with someone more credible.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zixar
The problem is that there is NO evidence that either Dot Matrix or Excathedra were complicit in ANY WAY. I think both of them would swear on any Bible you gave them that neither had any sexual interest in VPW whatsoever prior to their abuse.
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
It's too late for VP.
but while he draws breath, Martindale could still "redeem" himself.
Note to LCM : get going, dude. For starters, some confessions and apologies to all those whom you've hurt and burned would be in order...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
In case anybody forgot, the first post on this thread asked the following question.
So what's your problem with Martindale then?
Sure he was crude and obnoxious, and engaged in many sins, but Wierwille put the skunk pelt on him, certifying him as a MOG; shouldn't we overlook his sins too?
I would like to submit my answer to the question since this "epistle" is addressed to me. It's not what Martindale did, it's what he didn't do.
During my lifetime there have been many incidents with people attached to them which have made powerful impressions on me. The first one I can remember outside my schools and family is the Beatles. I was 9 when they first toured the US and I thought they were galaxies above other groups.
Since then, several groups, athletes and other celebrities have duplicated this, including VPW. He came into my life at a time when I was troubled and needed direction and he gave it to me exponentially. I've posted this all before, but, again, no amount of money could have equalled the positive impact in my life I got from PFAL. Martindale never did that. He was like Bob Dole. During the last year or so of Reagan's presidency just about every time you'd see Reagan on TV there was Dole walking right behind him with his nose sticking up his butt. That was "Jethro Martindale" the double naught MOG.
The last time a celebrity got to me that way was in 2001. I only went to 2 Cardinal games the whole year. One of them featured Mark McGwire hitting a home run off Greg Maddux over the center field wall. Wow!!! If I read something awful about MM I'll feel bad, but he sure gave me a once in a lifetime feeling that night.
So, I'm not really trying to excuse VPW's hypocrisy. He did it! I'm also not pretending that the positive impact he had in my life doesn't exist anymore. He did that, too. However, I still value his overall contribution to my life. Don't I have the right to do that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
you have the right to feel and do whatever you like, john
and i have a right to say he did much damage to me
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
**
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/whatissexualexploitation.asp
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
My answer to this question is based on my time in TWI 88-00 and personal observations. Take this as a disclaimer or ownership - whichever suits you.
Martindale seemed to leave a wake of destruction during his administration which is still being felt today. Families were split up during the homo purge, homes that would have increased in value were sold to get rid of debt, and standards that were almost unobtainable were set for people to follow. "Ye shall know them by their fruit." If he'd had as many meetings, outings, reporting-backs, reading Way Rags, listening to STS tapes, etc. AND working, AND family, he'd have been too tired to play patty cake.
VPW seemed more human - I've heard conflicting stories about what he was like, but from the 78 (?) Advanced Class tapes I saw, he seemed venerable at times. Again, I never met him - he had died before I came aboard.
LCM was too proud to show that side of himself. It would be 'admitting weakness'. I mean, the man thought he was freakin' Joshua, fer cryin' out loud! What an ultra-maroon! But yet, he didn't have the discipline - he lost his cool all the time in the name of "godly" anger - when he was really just a hot-head.
Finally, I've found in reviewing this topic, I really don't feel I have issues with either 'leader' but with the snow job or damage control that took place after certain things were brought to light. I'm talking about the lawsuit and LCM - TWI was busier than a cat in a litterbox trying to cover that load of crap.
IF they had just said HE DID IT. And if he had said he was SORRY and taken appropriate ownership for his actions, I don't think TWI would have seen the decline in numbers it saw. I do approve of the fact they de-throned the stinker. I don't approve of the fact that his 'family' is still there or that he wasn't M&A'ed as was done to others who did far less...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Yup, Martindale was an idiot who didn't have the watts to figure out that he could keep the TWI scam going if he came across as a "leader", rather than a tyrant.
He foolishly and vainly thought that the skunk pelt and the acompanying spiritual claptrap would render him immune to any dissension. The lesson he learned from the Geer pseudo-coup was to be more of a jerk, not be more godly-seeming, as his mentor did.
Wierwille, despite all the sexual abuse, lying, plagarism, behind-the-scenes politicking, bullying and whatever else, generally did not present himself publically like that.
Wierwille crafted a persona that made it difficult to believe that he would do the things that he was accused of doing, Martindale's public persona created an atmoshere where we wanted to believe anything bad that we heard about him, his own public face made it that much more plausible.
Wierwille got what he wanted by leveraging and manipulating, Martindale got what he wanted by bellowing orders and bludgeoning people over the head with TWI's version of God and his own MOGship.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ahhhhhh never mind
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Hmm...one was an obnoxious crook and the other smiled while he did the same things.
Can't say a jury would care about the nice public persona. I'm sure the RC priests we've read about were viewed as kindly leaders of God's people. Heck, they typically looked like the sweet grandfatherly type. IMO, that is more devious in that it works better to ensnare the innocent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunny1
Dear Dot,
No, my post was not in response to what you wrote. In fact, I'm sorry. I got carried away on a bottle of red wine. And I'm sure that 2027 is a very nice person.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Outin88!
Hello Linda Carter, Welcome to GS Cafe.
I looked at your profile and saw that next to the catagory "What is your purpose in life?:" You wrote "get as honest as possible"
Linda, I know that if you hadn't heard any of these things about VP Wierwille before now, that they may seem unbelieveable. But I believe they are true, and the folks writing are being honest!
I used to highly esteem VPW, and when I started hearing this stuff, it was upsetting, but the more I investigated the more I found out that these stories are true.
If I had the same mindset as I had in say 1985, I probably would have reacted as you did Linda, and perhaps even stronger, because at that time I felt VP Wierwille was the "Man of God" and that he was taught the Word by God "like it hadn't been known since the 1st century." and I thought that VPW was my "Father in the Word"
Please take some time to read, pray about, and ask people who are in the know.
Ask People that were in a position to know about this. As Dot said, John Lynn is an excellent resource, so are other former TWI leaders like Ralph Dubifsky or Dale Sides.
Here is a link where you can contact John Lynn;
http://christianeducational.org/contact.htm
Linda, I'm sorry if this is upsetting for you, and I truly hope you will post and dialogue with us here are GS Cafe.
[This message was edited by Outin88! on December 30, 2003 at 20:33.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Here's something I don't understand.
This thread has grown phenomenally in less than 48 hours, but smikeol has nothing to do with it. What's up with that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Raf,
Cuz' we have other things to talk about than Smikeol's preciousssss.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
I have purposely tried to stay away from this thread, but, I guess I'm giving in to temptation here.
VPW was/is one of the most sick and twisted people I've ever known in my life. The damage he did to so many lives is almost unfathomable.
If anybody really truly believes that he was the cause of any "good" that came out of his organization, after knowing about the pure evil and havoc he wreaked in the lives of innocent congregants, well, I feel very sorry for you.
You obviously need a different saviour.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
well i think i have to say thank you sister ex
:)-->
it is very very difficult to try and express that yes there were some decent "principles" in pfal and yet the years of trying to get over the abuse.... just doesn't level out for me
but i don't know if i should expect people to understand
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
and also thank you zix and garth and others (don't feel like back reading) for your support
that may sound weird but you don't know.....
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Just Thinking:
My point exactly
:D-->
Rafael:
Shh...you'll wake him
:P-->
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ditto
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
For the record-
I was never interested in VPW sexually. He was physically repulsive to me.
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 30, 2003 at 22:38.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Brady - thanks for sharing that!
Edited upon request of Exxie
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 30, 2003 at 22:38.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.