Well, I was on limb staff and from the North east. Ya know, speaking my mind and all.
So, these 6th corps were talking about how great Craig was and how good he looked and I said, "I think he looks like a New York fag."
One of the corps almost impaled me on a stick!
(Apologies to anyone that expression may insult, I said it about 25 years ago and was not thinking about it as it came out. Today, I would have said "gay guy" so I apoplogize, I am not calling YOU a name. Just revealing the story as it happened.)
quote: Of course TWI wasn't unique. But TWI is what we're talking about here
Oakspear,
Speaking of mind control, ok then, would you say the same thing about the Roman Catholic church, that they imploy the techniques of mind control? They too believe the pope speaks for God.
Personally, I prefer to think of these folks, and TWI folks, as they themselves deciding what religion they wish to practice, what God they wish to worship, who they wish to worship, etc., rather than thinking they are under some sort of mind control. This is America after all, freedom of religion.
But I believe that if TWI engaged in mind control and we were in fact brainwashed, then most all other religious people are brainwashed as well. Universities brainwash people, etc. etc. That's sort of why I don't like to paint a broad brush like that.
The DIFFERENCE between the religions and universities that you mentioned and twi are vast.....
When one destroys a child that you want because your minister tells you unequivically that THAT is what God requires of you, a faithfull desciple...you HAVE to be brain washed to follow their orders rather than listening to your own head and heart.
It IS abuse to utilise God`s name and scripture to direct folks actions .....Using the authority of those scriptures to enforce their desire....(gotta keep those numbers looking good for corps and wow participants)
Twi in ALL of it`s ugliness has been exposed guy....it`s out here for everyone to see in all it`s ugliness now.
You cannot whitewash it ...the ugliness just bleeds right through every fresh coat of paint you keep applying to hide the stains of sin....Go ahead... frantically keep on slapping on those new layers, try different colors oldies, you will never be able to mask twi`s evil destructive manipulative yes BRAINWASHING practices...the filth will continue to bleed right through.
The stains of twi are permanent...kilz itself (a stain hider for painters) couldn`t mask the filth.... the
(Can you tell I have spent a little too much time helping my husband the contractor/painter? lol)
[This message was edited by rascal on January 09, 2004 at 11:13.]
First let me explain, that when I use the term mind control, I am not using it to be synonymous with the term brainwashing. If I am being imprecise in my speech, then I apologize, but bear with me for a minute please.
I do not believe that those of us in TWI were brainwashed in the sense of loss or abdication of free will. I do believe that there were mechanisms in place, including PFAL and The Way Corps, to control peoples actions and circumscribe their resonses.
We all joined up of our own free will. For many of us though, once we accepted certain assumptions, our free will decisions were restricted if we wanted to stay within God's will. It was still technically free will, but it is also manipulation of a person's emotions and fears to get the desired result.
Maybe "conditioned response" would more accurately describe what I'm trying to say than "mind control"; but my observation of the structure of PFAL (not the doctrines themselves, but how they are presented) leads me to conclude that it was designed to elicit certain behavior and to facilitate top down control.
quote:Speaking of mind control, ok then, would you say the same thing about the Roman Catholic church, that they imploy the techniques of mind control? They too believe the pope speaks for God.
They have that infallibility doctrine, true, but growing up Catholic, I never saw the organized attempts at behavior modification that I saw in The Way. Most Catholics are Catholics in name only...we used to call 'em "ashes and palms" Catholics. They have no idea what the tenets of their faith are, the doctrines of their religon have no discernible affect on their daily lives, and the edicts of popes are ignored with impunity.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
They have that infallibility doctrine, true, but growing up Catholic, I never saw the organized attempts at behavior modification that I saw in The Way. Most Catholics are Catholics in name only...we used to call 'em "ashes and palms" Catholics. They have no idea what the tenets of their faith are, the doctrines of their religon have no discernible affect on their daily lives, and the edicts of popes are ignored with impunity.
Oak,
In the way of today you can say exactly the same things. The average attendie has no idea of the tenets or dotrines of Ohio and those ideas have no discernible effect on their daily lives. And the edicts from Ohio are ignored with impunity. There is only an issue when you bring one up.
Most only go to fellowships once or twice a week. They may take a class here or there but they do it like going to fellowship they really don't believe the things that are taught and don't care in general.
_In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is_
At least where I live anyway. I do not see any difference between the Way of today and any other church. I have been thrown out several times by the old leadership but I can still show up for fellowship if I want and no one seems to mind so long as I don' make a pont of voiceing my dissagrements.
That's how my family was with religion. They're Mexican and you were just "supposed to be Catholic" - - but I doubt that many of them could actually explain a doctrinal tenet of the church. I do think that's how many of the folks who were non-Corps and attended nice little twigs far away from HQ were. They had no clue what was really being advocated.
It was actually a Jewish friend we grew up with who challenged my thinking. She knew more about what we were supposed to believe than we did and would ask "you really believe that???". Upon reflection, the answer was no and I subsequently stopped attending that church.
I wonder if they don't care anyway why they even bother to go at all?
Wyteduv58
It is mainly out of habit and desire to socialize. Most of the people I no in the fellowships are long time friends and enjoy each others company. But they truly either do not know or refuse to hear the details of what Ohio and the freaks their teach.
Most of them will simply smile and shake there heads in agreement whenever some leader comes to teach or they sit in some class. And when they are asked what they learned they usually grin and regurgitate something that happened to stick in there head. I'm serious they do not care or believe anything the dumb a**** in Ohio say.
What Is funny to me is to watch the limb and branch or region coordinators. They think they are actually doing something it is really kinda sad. If they only knew what the people that are supposedly following their great leadership really thought of them they would probably run home crying to their mothers.
Oh it was because you were also honorable and wholesome. -->
I was REALLY REALLY busy keeping her happy.
I wonder if she is the 4th Corps woman they are talking about on this thread on earlier pages....the devil woman, pimping for VP. Geesh, did I have a GUARDIAN ANGEL or what?????
Thank you for acknowledging me a wholesome
Glad you enjoyed the pictures. I wish I had more. Who is Oldiesman? John?
Thanks for your compliment also Valerie, I've always been that nice sensitve guy the girls always say they want to marry..... :D-->
My dad was basically a blue collar man raised in the 19th century attitudes of self control, personal responsibilty, honor and integrity, showing due respect to our elders, women, people in general, and positions of authority. He raised us that way too, it is too bad that seems mostly lost today.
Phil is oldies, he had excellent friendships with some high leaders and has close ones still in though he has been out at least 10 years. I don't want to say too much because he might not want it revealed, but he as you see, likes much of what he was taught and is a big believer in being responsible for your actions. I think he carries it a bit too far, but I still think he is an all around good guy.
I thought you were the most clean cut, wholesome, all american apple pie girl there. You and Linda Molyneau too, and you were both total knockouts. All the rest of the girls were in their party and hippy stages of life. Remember when Barb told us the girls had to start wearing bras and the guys had to cut their hair and shave? (in Texas in '74, even the bikerbabes wore bras.) :D-->:D-->:D-->
Here is my story about my own personal Barbabuse. Kinda long but pretty funny, at least I think so.
(Actually, this should be in the wild, weird and stupid thread.)
My problem with Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer Barbarian Greystapo started around October after a Friday night wow meeting in your house. She held me back afterwards and told me word had gotten back to her that I wasn't witnessing enough and she told me that if I didn't come back by 10:00 pm Saturday night with 10 names of people interested in fellowship, she was going to kick me off the field.
First some background for those who don't know the '74 wow year. 21 wow branches of 7 wow twigs each were sent out after the ROA. The Amarillo, Texas branch had 29 wows with 10 cars, one of them my old beat up blue Ford. Interim corpsperson Barbara G was the Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer. I use the term Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer because that tended to be her character and attitude. I always thought she would make a great Marine. :D-->
When we left HQ, JoAnn C. was riding with Barb G. and Barb's van broke down. JoAnn had enough money to cover the repairs and they finally caught up with us after we all were in Amarillo. She named the twigs after the 7 church epistles, ours was Ephesians.
That night Barb did a quick run around of Amarillo and then took a city map and divided it into 7 wow twig areas. The whole southeast quarter of the city was given to Ephesians because there weren't many public places to witness in.Each wow family was to stay in it's own area for witnessing. As it turned out, we had four places; one hotel, a grocery, a gas station turned teenage game room, and a bowling alley.
A couple weeks after arrival, we had to send one of the Ephesians girls home and Barb sent JoAnn to my twig to take her place. I thought it odd Barb would send JoAnn, but it quickly became obvious she was smitten of Roger, the coordinator. Somehow, I was smitten of her and Roger liked JoAnn but had no personal interest in her. (Nice mess. eh?)
JoAnn and Lin B., the other Eph. girl wow, both thought of themselves and acted as loose goose inner city black chicks in white skins. I was a rather conservative bible type which they both detested. We bumped heads a lot and poor Roger was stuck in the middle. The fact that I did the whole family finances and owned the only working car made things worse. They got away with a lot (including my car) because we had agreed to a democratic one person, one vote decision making process with Roger having the tiebreaker when necessary.
As it turned out, the hotel wasn't really a place to witness, and the grocery kicked us out real quick. That left us with the kiddy pinball room and the bowling alley. The kids ignored us and the bowling alley was very noisy. I've always been partially deaf and couldn't hear even a third of anything said. I never liked walking up to someone doing something and cold witnessing to them anyway.
This is what led up to the meeting with Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer Barb Greystapo and her ultimatum. After telling Roger and the girls about the 10 names or leave warning, the Ephesian girls were beside themselves with glee. They knew I was on my way out of their lives. Saturday was the family day off and I had to go witnessing. The whole family voted against me using my own car to do so because they needed to do family things. (The final vote was binding and we'd all agreed to it. Of course the girls knew not having the car would impede my witnessing too.)
Roger suggested I go to the wondermall for access to the most people. (it was the day off so I wasn't limited to our territory.) So I walked several miles to the wondermall, witnessing all the way. I witnessed all day there until they closed and then I witnessed as I walked back home. I didn't get one name even though I witnessed like crazy and had several fascinating witnesses including one with some young Mormons.
At 10:00 pm I was allowed to use my car to go see the Barbmeister. I told her of all I had done and braced myself for the verbal assault I expected to get. Barb was silent for several minutes and then told me she had called HQ about my problem. She was told she didn't have the authority to boot me unless I was actively fighting the ministry and it was my decision to stay or leave.
After another pause, she told me she had gotten several reports from wows who had seen me at the mall witnessing. (By Saturday morning, about all the wows had heard about my situation, probably JoAnn and Lin again. At the mall, all the wows who saw me wished me sucess.:)--> ) She said again she could not boot me but emphasized she would be really pleased if I left on my own and she wanted my answer in the morning after another wow meeting at her house.
When I returned home and gave my report, the girls were crestfallen and begged me to leave. The next morning, I told Roger my promise had been to God and to a lesser extent to VP,... Barb had nothing to do with it. I was staying.
At the wow meeting, Barb announced HQ had decided to give door to door witnessing a try and this was how we were going to spend the rest of the year witnessing. A collective groan filled the room but I smiled. ( I had sold Kirby Vacuum Cleaners for a while and didn't mind door to door.) Afterwards, I told Barb my decision, she didn't like it but couldn't do anything about it.
So that is how Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer Barb Greystapo came to dislike me.
:D-->:D-->:D-->
The rest of the year went well with me and I had many wonderful and Godly experiences. Signs and wonders, miracles and a lot of learning. :D--> ;)-->
Way II much fun for one man.
love ya,
Bob Hansen
[This message was edited by dabobbada on January 11, 2004 at 6:53.]
[This message was edited by dabobbada on January 11, 2004 at 7:07.]
quote:We all joined up of our own free will. For many of us though, once we accepted certain assumptions, our free will decisions were restricted if we wanted to stay within God's will. It was still technically free will, but it is also manipulation of a person's emotions and fears to get the desired result.
Oakspear,
I agree with you on that point, especially in relation to "Christians Should Be Prosperous," which is an excellent example of fear motivation. "You Cannot Afford Not to Tithe" etc. etc. etc. However, it's still your free will decision to have that apply in your life. We could have walked away or not complied at any time, for example. I had questions about Tithing and ABS for years and because of not getting answers that satisfied me, I gave what I felt like, instead of tithing, for a long time. It was a joke, actually. But it was also at a time when TWI wasn't keeping track of what money you put in the basket and you could still give cash. TWI-2 was much worse in that aspect, I hope you agree. For example, people insisting paying by check to keep track, etc.
quote:She said again she could not boot me but emphasized she would be really pleased if I left on my own and she wanted my answer in the morning after another wow meeting at her house.
Bob, I had no idea you were under that much hassle. Thank you again and again, for staying.
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You are on a roll tonight!
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excathedra
if you can't beat 'em, laugh about 'em
:)-->
?
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Dot Matrix
Lucky girl
A brief aside-
And Ex maybe you were there that day...
When Craig got that God awful perm in his hair?
Well, I was on limb staff and from the North east. Ya know, speaking my mind and all.
So, these 6th corps were talking about how great Craig was and how good he looked and I said, "I think he looks like a New York fag."
One of the corps almost impaled me on a stick!
(Apologies to anyone that expression may insult, I said it about 25 years ago and was not thinking about it as it came out. Today, I would have said "gay guy" so I apoplogize, I am not calling YOU a name. Just revealing the story as it happened.)
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oldiesman
Oakspear,
Speaking of mind control, ok then, would you say the same thing about the Roman Catholic church, that they imploy the techniques of mind control? They too believe the pope speaks for God.
Personally, I prefer to think of these folks, and TWI folks, as they themselves deciding what religion they wish to practice, what God they wish to worship, who they wish to worship, etc., rather than thinking they are under some sort of mind control. This is America after all, freedom of religion.
But I believe that if TWI engaged in mind control and we were in fact brainwashed, then most all other religious people are brainwashed as well. Universities brainwash people, etc. etc. That's sort of why I don't like to paint a broad brush like that.
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rascal
The DIFFERENCE between the religions and universities that you mentioned and twi are vast.....
When one destroys a child that you want because your minister tells you unequivically that THAT is what God requires of you, a faithfull desciple...you HAVE to be brain washed to follow their orders rather than listening to your own head and heart.
It IS abuse to utilise God`s name and scripture to direct folks actions .....Using the authority of those scriptures to enforce their desire....(gotta keep those numbers looking good for corps and wow participants)
Twi in ALL of it`s ugliness has been exposed guy....it`s out here for everyone to see in all it`s ugliness now.
You cannot whitewash it ...the ugliness just bleeds right through every fresh coat of paint you keep applying to hide the stains of sin....Go ahead... frantically keep on slapping on those new layers, try different colors oldies, you will never be able to mask twi`s evil destructive manipulative yes BRAINWASHING practices...the filth will continue to bleed right through.
The stains of twi are permanent...kilz itself (a stain hider for painters) couldn`t mask the filth.... the
(Can you tell I have spent a little too much time helping my husband the contractor/painter? lol)
[This message was edited by rascal on January 09, 2004 at 11:13.]
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oldiesman
yeah, reminds me my apartment really needs a paint job.
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Oakspear
Oldies:
First let me explain, that when I use the term mind control, I am not using it to be synonymous with the term brainwashing. If I am being imprecise in my speech, then I apologize, but bear with me for a minute please.
I do not believe that those of us in TWI were brainwashed in the sense of loss or abdication of free will. I do believe that there were mechanisms in place, including PFAL and The Way Corps, to control peoples actions and circumscribe their resonses.
We all joined up of our own free will. For many of us though, once we accepted certain assumptions, our free will decisions were restricted if we wanted to stay within God's will. It was still technically free will, but it is also manipulation of a person's emotions and fears to get the desired result.
Maybe "conditioned response" would more accurately describe what I'm trying to say than "mind control"; but my observation of the structure of PFAL (not the doctrines themselves, but how they are presented) leads me to conclude that it was designed to elicit certain behavior and to facilitate top down control.
They have that infallibility doctrine, true, but growing up Catholic, I never saw the organized attempts at behavior modification that I saw in The Way. Most Catholics are Catholics in name only...we used to call 'em "ashes and palms" Catholics. They have no idea what the tenets of their faith are, the doctrines of their religon have no discernible affect on their daily lives, and the edicts of popes are ignored with impunity.In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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early2it
Oak,
In the way of today you can say exactly the same things. The average attendie has no idea of the tenets or dotrines of Ohio and those ideas have no discernible effect on their daily lives. And the edicts from Ohio are ignored with impunity. There is only an issue when you bring one up.
Most only go to fellowships once or twice a week. They may take a class here or there but they do it like going to fellowship they really don't believe the things that are taught and don't care in general.
_In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is_
Oakspear
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early2it
At least where I live anyway. I do not see any difference between the Way of today and any other church. I have been thrown out several times by the old leadership but I can still show up for fellowship if I want and no one seems to mind so long as I don' make a pont of voiceing my dissagrements.
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wyteduv58
I wonder if they don't care anyway why they even bother to go at all?
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... ]
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jardinero
I think it's just out of habit, Dovey.
Early: good comparison to Catholicism
That's how my family was with religion. They're Mexican and you were just "supposed to be Catholic" - - but I doubt that many of them could actually explain a doctrinal tenet of the church. I do think that's how many of the folks who were non-Corps and attended nice little twigs far away from HQ were. They had no clue what was really being advocated.
It was actually a Jewish friend we grew up with who challenged my thinking. She knew more about what we were supposed to believe than we did and would ask "you really believe that???". Upon reflection, the answer was no and I subsequently stopped attending that church.
J.
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early2it
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valerie52
Bob Hansen,
Yes I do remember you as a nice wow guy.
I didn't realize B had it out for you.
Oh it was because you were also honorable and wholesome.
-->
I was REALLY REALLY busy keeping her happy.
I wonder if she is the 4th Corps woman they are talking about on this thread on earlier pages....the devil woman, pimping for VP. Geesh, did I have a GUARDIAN ANGEL or what?????
Thank you for acknowledging me a wholesome
Glad you enjoyed the pictures. I wish I had more. Who is Oldiesman? John?
valerie52
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Steve!
Um, no, Val, oldiesman is Phil P.
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excathedra
forgive me
?
[This message was edited by excathedra on January 10, 2004 at 15:36.]
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LG
Valerie, if "B" is one of her initials, she is not the "devil woman."
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metastic&ocular
"Why are weirwille's sins excusable and Martindales are not"?
neithers sins are excusable.
or their spouses.
a thing of beauty
http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm
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excathedra
uh oh you did a baddie
?
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dabobbada
Thanks for your compliment also Valerie, I've always been that nice sensitve guy the girls always say they want to marry.....
:D-->
My dad was basically a blue collar man raised in the 19th century attitudes of self control, personal responsibilty, honor and integrity, showing due respect to our elders, women, people in general, and positions of authority. He raised us that way too, it is too bad that seems mostly lost today.
Phil is oldies, he had excellent friendships with some high leaders and has close ones still in though he has been out at least 10 years. I don't want to say too much because he might not want it revealed, but he as you see, likes much of what he was taught and is a big believer in being responsible for your actions. I think he carries it a bit too far, but I still think he is an all around good guy.
I thought you were the most clean cut, wholesome, all american apple pie girl there. You and Linda Molyneau too, and you were both total knockouts. All the rest of the girls were in their party and hippy stages of life. Remember when Barb told us the girls had to start wearing bras and the guys had to cut their hair and shave? (in Texas in '74, even the bikerbabes wore bras.)
:D-->
:D-->
:D-->
Here is my story about my own personal Barbabuse. Kinda long but pretty funny, at least I think so.
(Actually, this should be in the wild, weird and stupid thread.)
My problem with Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer Barbarian Greystapo started around October after a Friday night wow meeting in your house. She held me back afterwards and told me word had gotten back to her that I wasn't witnessing enough and she told me that if I didn't come back by 10:00 pm Saturday night with 10 names of people interested in fellowship, she was going to kick me off the field.
First some background for those who don't know the '74 wow year. 21 wow branches of 7 wow twigs each were sent out after the ROA. The Amarillo, Texas branch had 29 wows with 10 cars, one of them my old beat up blue Ford. Interim corpsperson Barbara G was the Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer. I use the term Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer because that tended to be her character and attitude. I always thought she would make a great Marine.
:D-->
When we left HQ, JoAnn C. was riding with Barb G. and Barb's van broke down. JoAnn had enough money to cover the repairs and they finally caught up with us after we all were in Amarillo. She named the twigs after the 7 church epistles, ours was Ephesians.
That night Barb did a quick run around of Amarillo and then took a city map and divided it into 7 wow twig areas. The whole southeast quarter of the city was given to Ephesians because there weren't many public places to witness in.Each wow family was to stay in it's own area for witnessing. As it turned out, we had four places; one hotel, a grocery, a gas station turned teenage game room, and a bowling alley.
A couple weeks after arrival, we had to send one of the Ephesians girls home and Barb sent JoAnn to my twig to take her place. I thought it odd Barb would send JoAnn, but it quickly became obvious she was smitten of Roger, the coordinator. Somehow, I was smitten of her and Roger liked JoAnn but had no personal interest in her. (Nice mess. eh?)
JoAnn and Lin B., the other Eph. girl wow, both thought of themselves and acted as loose goose inner city black chicks in white skins. I was a rather conservative bible type which they both detested. We bumped heads a lot and poor Roger was stuck in the middle. The fact that I did the whole family finances and owned the only working car made things worse. They got away with a lot (including my car) because we had agreed to a democratic one person, one vote decision making process with Roger having the tiebreaker when necessary.
As it turned out, the hotel wasn't really a place to witness, and the grocery kicked us out real quick. That left us with the kiddy pinball room and the bowling alley. The kids ignored us and the bowling alley was very noisy. I've always been partially deaf and couldn't hear even a third of anything said. I never liked walking up to someone doing something and cold witnessing to them anyway.
This is what led up to the meeting with Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer Barb Greystapo and her ultimatum. After telling Roger and the girls about the 10 names or leave warning, the Ephesian girls were beside themselves with glee. They knew I was on my way out of their lives. Saturday was the family day off and I had to go witnessing. The whole family voted against me using my own car to do so because they needed to do family things. (The final vote was binding and we'd all agreed to it. Of course the girls knew not having the car would impede my witnessing too.)
Roger suggested I go to the wondermall for access to the most people. (it was the day off so I wasn't limited to our territory.) So I walked several miles to the wondermall, witnessing all the way. I witnessed all day there until they closed and then I witnessed as I walked back home. I didn't get one name even though I witnessed like crazy and had several fascinating witnesses including one with some young Mormons.
At 10:00 pm I was allowed to use my car to go see the Barbmeister. I told her of all I had done and braced myself for the verbal assault I expected to get. Barb was silent for several minutes and then told me she had called HQ about my problem. She was told she didn't have the authority to boot me unless I was actively fighting the ministry and it was my decision to stay or leave.
After another pause, she told me she had gotten several reports from wows who had seen me at the mall witnessing. (By Saturday morning, about all the wows had heard about my situation, probably JoAnn and Lin again. At the mall, all the wows who saw me wished me sucess.
:)--> ) She said again she could not boot me but emphasized she would be really pleased if I left on my own and she wanted my answer in the morning after another wow meeting at her house.
When I returned home and gave my report, the girls were crestfallen and begged me to leave. The next morning, I told Roger my promise had been to God and to a lesser extent to VP,... Barb had nothing to do with it. I was staying.
At the wow meeting, Barb announced HQ had decided to give door to door witnessing a try and this was how we were going to spend the rest of the year witnessing. A collective groan filled the room but I smiled. ( I had sold Kirby Vacuum Cleaners for a while and didn't mind door to door.) Afterwards, I told Barb my decision, she didn't like it but couldn't do anything about it.
So that is how Wowgrupe Oberfuhrer Barb Greystapo came to dislike me.
The rest of the year went well with me and I had many wonderful and Godly experiences. Signs and wonders, miracles and a lot of learning.
:D--> 
;)-->
Way II much fun for one man.
love ya,
Bob Hansen
[This message was edited by dabobbada on January 11, 2004 at 6:53.]
[This message was edited by dabobbada on January 11, 2004 at 7:07.]
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Oakspear
Now THAT is a good story!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Dot Matrix
That is a good story Bob! It took guts not to leave and to face a leader and some WOW's - you lived with - and say "I'm staying!"
Good for you! (Applause being generated on this end)
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dabobbada
(Blush)
Aw... shucks guys, it tweren't nothin' no bullheaded, contrary, stubborn ol' country boy wouldn't do.
Way II much fun for one man.
love ya,
Bob Hansen
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oldiesman
Oakspear,
I agree with you on that point, especially in relation to "Christians Should Be Prosperous," which is an excellent example of fear motivation. "You Cannot Afford Not to Tithe" etc. etc. etc. However, it's still your free will decision to have that apply in your life. We could have walked away or not complied at any time, for example. I had questions about Tithing and ABS for years and because of not getting answers that satisfied me, I gave what I felt like, instead of tithing, for a long time. It was a joke, actually. But it was also at a time when TWI wasn't keeping track of what money you put in the basket and you could still give cash. TWI-2 was much worse in that aspect, I hope you agree. For example, people insisting paying by check to keep track, etc.
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oldiesman
Bob, I had no idea you were under that much hassle. Thank you again and again, for staying.
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