"I think we need Mike now to offer some balance, or maybe Galen.?"
I have previously stated my opinion. Which agrees largely with Ex10
"Ex10-
Well, it occurs to me that there really was a kind of great divide between people who were in the corps or on staff, and the masses of people who just went to or lead a twig. They rarely got the chance to see the "top leadership" up close and personal. Plus there were so many wonderful, loving, kind souls involved who really did reach out to people. I can certainly understand how hard it is for them to accept and believe the crap. Sheesh, I was there and I was clueless! for a while, anyway."
I never said that I did not beleive that people were hurt.
All of us were simply involved in very different versions of TWI. Some fellowships were very loving and spent a lot of time doing Word-studies.
From the point of view that I had while running various twigs as that the Corpse were often boot-licking power-hungry nazis. I began following TWI in 1979. I never met VPW. I was at a meeting with LCM once (an advanced class) and once at a Rock. I always thought that LCM was an idiot.
I dont see what further 'balance' I could possibly provide?
Obviously many people were hurt, we know this. For me to list any of them, would insult others that I dont list. I dont wish to insult anyone, thus would be an error.
Hey Dot: You said something a few pages back about people who "need" a cult. I can kind of relate to that. When I came to the word I was this drug using Beavis and Butthead all rolled into one still living at home and couldn't relate to anybody who wasn't at least a 75% match. Not too many people like that apparently.
I used to go to places that served steak and deliberately sit by a window and eat the thing with my bare hands just to gross people out. Once, while riding in a friend's back seat on the highway, I extended myself through the driver's side window almost to the car in the next lane and went BOO! Poor lady. So if you think I'm obnoxious now...?
I really did need TWI for several years. I read the Christian ettiquette book a lot. Became much more housebroken. TWI acted as a sort of half way house for me. I sure don't regret the biblical exposure, either.
I really did need TWI for several years. I read the Christian ettiquette book a lot. Became much more housebroken. TWI acted as a sort of half way house for me. I sure don't regret the biblical exposure, either.
Johniam,
You only think you needed TWI and as for TWI's exposure being biblical you are kidding right?
See I know you still think some of what TWI taught was actually GOD's word but it is NOT. Christian etiquette is nonsense it's even more idiotic than Christian morality.
Are you a dog to be trained? What you did to that old lady was not obnoxious it was mischievous or in laymen terms stupid. Obnoxious is what LCM did from the Way pul-pit ( emphasis on pit ) every Sunday. Do you think he allowed himself to be tamed by the beneficiaries of Christian etiquette.
Buying into Christian etiquette is what the prisoner who will not fight does. Rather than die in an attempt to keep from being raped he just drops his pants aims his *** to the clouds and says, "have fun boys" He doesn't want to offend, you know.
VPW and the Way were completely wrong about the bible the sooner you come to grips with that the better off you are going to be. None of the scriptures are addressed to you living here and now but I can't control you unless you think they are.
Then I can point to the bible and say, see this is what you are supposed to do with your time and money, give them to my ministry so we can move this wonderful word of God and all the new believers can give us their time and money also. And before you know it the word will be over the whole world and everyone can give us their time and money like God wants them to do for their own good.
That is what all religion does. I believe holy men wrote the Koran and the book of Mormon and thousands of other books. But no book that God authors should be used or viewed as a manual for life. If this were 70 AD and I was living in Corinth and I believed the things Paul was teaching then I would tell the silly women to keep silent. But this is not 70 AD and I am not a Corinthian.
God was not giving me instruction 2000 years ago He was giving it to them. You can learn from the bible just like you can learn from the Kamasutra. You can even apply whatever part you think fitting but that does not make it Gods will forYOU. But if it makes you feel good I will be happy to tell you it is what God wants you to do and charge you for it.
As long as you allow other people to define Gods word and will for you then you will spend your whole life used like a crack whore by religion wether it be Christian or pagan.
I think some of the reason why people thought that vpw's way was so much nicer than lcm's is that there were still a lot of kind & loving people in twi while vp was at the helm. Lots that were just trying to do God's Word.
lcm succeeded in chasing off all but the most hardened folks (except when some were forced to stay for whatever reason) & 95% of the leadership were complete a-holes.
vp was the snake oil salesman. Really smooth when he needed to be. He should be given credit for finding a way to suck us in & has most of us begging for more. But that doesn't make him right or good.
There is no good excuse for vp or lcm. The harm they both did is completely unacceptable. And some of those who say that pfal changed them & vpw showed the way aren't really saying much for God's ability to reveal Himself to them. God is bigger than vp.
"I really did need TWI for several years. I read the Christian ettiquette book a lot. Became much more housebroken."
LOL
Sunny - good luck with your healing. I bet you were young and caught up in it. Probably as a young girl you thought "relations" were part of love or perhaps you could only rationalize it with thinking "its okay, I am in love."
You were in an awful situation. Your brain and heart probably were conflicted. I hope you are successful in figuring it all out.
Facing it can be painful but not facing it can destroy you. I bet you swing with highs and lows.
Whatever your pattern is, if it is coming up, it is time to look and to heal.
I can be a good advocate when I do not feel attacked or insulted.
Wow reading these stories about a drink that VP gave girls kind-of brings back some memories....
When VP invited me into his motorcoach to ride for Emporai to Ohio, I was totally elated.
My alarms went way off when he led me to the back bedroom. ( My mother told me that you never go into a man's bedrooom, and you never let a man into you bedrom until you are married).
So My alarms went off. VP offered me a drink, I didn't take it.
Praise YA. He treid to touch my breasts, I pushed him away SEVERAL times. He told me I was not mature of a woman of God bla bla bla. He let me go back to the thefront of the motorcoach (relife) and the other 7th Corps girl went in there with him and she stayed all night.. EEUU..
I figured taht she ****** him adn I lsot all respect for her.
When VP wanted us all corps to write our deep dark sins on paper for him, I thought in my head F******* you you F*****ing ***-hole. You will NEVER know my sins...
I knew at that point that he wanted to know everybody's weakness so he could crucify us later.....
SO there. Another story from a truth speaking woman about VP and his lewd obnoxious behavior to women.
I am sooo glad my alarms went off and I did not drink anything with him!!
I remember giving him sivler coins I had diligently collected from Reno casinos, and he said that I should have "listened to God and given him a bottle of Drambuie". I was so crushed when he said that. I worked so hard adn spent alot of time getting all those silver coins for the f****er.
After that incident and after him humiliating me in front of the Corps by FALSLEY accusing me of having sex, I NEVER EVER trusted the guy, never wanted to be near him, but put on the happy smiley face etc when I had to, (Corps grad etc). When he was around, even had pictures take with him....
I had to put on the front, because NO ONE would have believed me.....
I know that MANY of us girls rebuffed him.
But we did not know about each other. We were all so full of fear that we would be digraced and kicked out bla bla bla.
Of course we would have turned into a GRSASESPOT by morning!!!!!
Lucky for you that you hadn't lost all ability/willingness to listen when the alarms sounded.
If you don't mind...
What do you think now of that girl who stayed the night then? Do you think that she thought you had done "it" with vpw? Do you think that maybe she figured if she didn't do "it", too, that you'd be part of the shunning and shaming?
It's very interesting to look at situations again after the twi-colored glasses have been removed...or at least cleaned.
Makes me wonder if the other girl had the drink!?!
I am so glad you showed up. I believe it was you, Sunesis and I who had this talk before and it SOOOO helped me get over thinking I did something wrong... Or whatever.... The crazies trying to figure it all out.
I was going to adk VAL are you out there but then I thought maybe it was Kay.
Anyway, thanks for bringing it all up for anyone to read. Thank you for sharing those few years back, you have no idea of what your story did for me...
So sorry you went through being talked about at lunch! How awful! After I was MARKED at a meeting with about 300 people (it really does somethng to ya) my biggest fear was he would humiliate me at lunch. I knew everyone would beleive him and nobody would believe me.
It paralyzed me.
But now we are free and God help them if they call us a devil for speaking up.
How about a thread called "Wild things" where you can share the gun story! That was wild.
You may not remember me, but we were on the wow field together in Amarillo. I am Bob Hansen and I was in the Ephesians twig with Roger Stark and Jo Ann Clark.
I didn't get to know you very well because the oberfuhrer Barb Grey chose me to be her personal enemy, so it wasn't a good idea to go to her place. I read where you said how poorly she treated and used you too. It didn't really surprise me.
I always remembered you as the wholesome clean-cut all american middle class girl. What VP did to you, what the corps, and your corps husband did to you made my blood boil. The crap you went thru saddened me immensely. Your testemonies were what absolutely locked out any last vestiges of doubts about VP and the perversities in TWI.
I was impressed with your accounting of your military service. You go girl. I am glad you have found a good life and husband and that it is well with you.
Thanks for the pictures of the wow year. It was good to see bob Wyda and Phil and the others. That was quite a wierd year but God made it a good one in spite of Barbera Greystapo.
Geeze to be young again, Valerie thx for the memories.
I'd like to find out where Brother Wyda disappeared to, does anyone know?
Sorry for the derail but I have to share this story about what kind of a great Christian brother Bob Hansen is:
On the Amarillo WOW year I'm driving my wow sister's Opel Manta down the highway, I get in the left lane to pass and get side-swiped by a huge truck. It demolishes the car and the truck disappears. A policeman comes on the scene (a way believer!) and a bit later, my wow sister who owns the car, and Bob Hansen to the rescue. As my WOW sister leers at me with a look of disdain and disgust on the vile peon slimeball who recked her car, Bob surveys the situation, and with razor sharp wisdom says, "well, the devil just tried to kill Phil." He then proceeded to lend us his car, "old blue" which performed admirably for the rest of the year.
Bob you got me out of the soup that day and I'll never forget that. Thanks so much.
Now back to our regularly scheduled Wierwille-bashing.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
68
96
22
28
Popular Days
Dec 31
88
Jan 1
83
Dec 29
58
Dec 30
48
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 68 posts
Dot Matrix 96 posts
Oakspear 22 posts
early2it 28 posts
Popular Days
Dec 31 2003
88 posts
Jan 1 2004
83 posts
Dec 29 2003
58 posts
Dec 30 2003
48 posts
excathedra
and i wish you well in your healing, dear girl
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
def59:
"I think we need Mike now to offer some balance, or maybe Galen.?"
I have previously stated my opinion. Which agrees largely with Ex10
"Ex10-
Well, it occurs to me that there really was a kind of great divide between people who were in the corps or on staff, and the masses of people who just went to or lead a twig. They rarely got the chance to see the "top leadership" up close and personal. Plus there were so many wonderful, loving, kind souls involved who really did reach out to people. I can certainly understand how hard it is for them to accept and believe the crap. Sheesh, I was there and I was clueless! for a while, anyway."
I never said that I did not beleive that people were hurt.
All of us were simply involved in very different versions of TWI. Some fellowships were very loving and spent a lot of time doing Word-studies.
From the point of view that I had while running various twigs as that the Corpse were often boot-licking power-hungry nazis. I began following TWI in 1979. I never met VPW. I was at a meeting with LCM once (an advanced class) and once at a Rock. I always thought that LCM was an idiot.
I dont see what further 'balance' I could possibly provide?
Obviously many people were hurt, we know this. For me to list any of them, would insult others that I dont list. I dont wish to insult anyone, thus would be an error.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
this post was edited
?
[This message was edited by excathedra on January 04, 2004 at 11:00.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
this one also
?
[This message was edited by excathedra on January 04, 2004 at 11:00.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Hey Dot: You said something a few pages back about people who "need" a cult. I can kind of relate to that. When I came to the word I was this drug using Beavis and Butthead all rolled into one still living at home and couldn't relate to anybody who wasn't at least a 75% match. Not too many people like that apparently.
I used to go to places that served steak and deliberately sit by a window and eat the thing with my bare hands just to gross people out. Once, while riding in a friend's back seat on the highway, I extended myself through the driver's side window almost to the car in the next lane and went BOO! Poor lady. So if you think I'm obnoxious now...?
I really did need TWI for several years. I read the Christian ettiquette book a lot. Became much more housebroken. TWI acted as a sort of half way house for me. I sure don't regret the biblical exposure, either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
early2it
Johniam,
You only think you needed TWI and as for TWI's exposure being biblical you are kidding right?
See I know you still think some of what TWI taught was actually GOD's word but it is NOT. Christian etiquette is nonsense it's even more idiotic than Christian morality.
Continued on next post....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
early2it
Are you a dog to be trained? What you did to that old lady was not obnoxious it was mischievous or in laymen terms stupid. Obnoxious is what LCM did from the Way pul-pit ( emphasis on pit ) every Sunday. Do you think he allowed himself to be tamed by the beneficiaries of Christian etiquette.
Buying into Christian etiquette is what the prisoner who will not fight does. Rather than die in an attempt to keep from being raped he just drops his pants aims his *** to the clouds and says, "have fun boys" He doesn't want to offend, you know.
Continued on next post....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
early2it
VPW and the Way were completely wrong about the bible the sooner you come to grips with that the better off you are going to be. None of the scriptures are addressed to you living here and now but I can't control you unless you think they are.
Then I can point to the bible and say, see this is what you are supposed to do with your time and money, give them to my ministry so we can move this wonderful word of God and all the new believers can give us their time and money also. And before you know it the word will be over the whole world and everyone can give us their time and money like God wants them to do for their own good.
Continued on next post....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
early2it
That is what all religion does. I believe holy men wrote the Koran and the book of Mormon and thousands of other books. But no book that God authors should be used or viewed as a manual for life. If this were 70 AD and I was living in Corinth and I believed the things Paul was teaching then I would tell the silly women to keep silent. But this is not 70 AD and I am not a Corinthian.
Continued on next post....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
early2it
God was not giving me instruction 2000 years ago He was giving it to them. You can learn from the bible just like you can learn from the Kamasutra. You can even apply whatever part you think fitting but that does not make it Gods will forYOU. But if it makes you feel good I will be happy to tell you it is what God wants you to do and charge you for it.
As long as you allow other people to define Gods word and will for you then you will spend your whole life used like a crack whore by religion wether it be Christian or pagan.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Early: You were not born with all that bitterness in your heart, and you don't have to die with it, unless you simply want to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LuckyGirl
I think some of the reason why people thought that vpw's way was so much nicer than lcm's is that there were still a lot of kind & loving people in twi while vp was at the helm. Lots that were just trying to do God's Word.
lcm succeeded in chasing off all but the most hardened folks (except when some were forced to stay for whatever reason) & 95% of the leadership were complete a-holes.
vp was the snake oil salesman. Really smooth when he needed to be. He should be given credit for finding a way to suck us in & has most of us begging for more. But that doesn't make him right or good.
There is no good excuse for vp or lcm. The harm they both did is completely unacceptable. And some of those who say that pfal changed them & vpw showed the way aren't really saying much for God's ability to reveal Himself to them. God is bigger than vp.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Jon-
"I really did need TWI for several years. I read the Christian ettiquette book a lot. Became much more housebroken."
LOL
Sunny - good luck with your healing. I bet you were young and caught up in it. Probably as a young girl you thought "relations" were part of love or perhaps you could only rationalize it with thinking "its okay, I am in love."
You were in an awful situation. Your brain and heart probably were conflicted. I hope you are successful in figuring it all out.
Facing it can be painful but not facing it can destroy you. I bet you swing with highs and lows.
Whatever your pattern is, if it is coming up, it is time to look and to heal.
I can be a good advocate when I do not feel attacked or insulted.
I wish you health.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunny1
Dear Dot and Excathedra,
Thank you and again I am sorry.
Take care.
S1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
sunny, it's okay. you wouldn't believe the things i've said on here.
i hope you take care too
my email: excathedra2000@yahoo.com
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
All is forgiven - I offer you love and an ear.
You can PT me anytime. If you just want to cry, it is okay. It is time to heal.
God loves you Sunny!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
valerie52
Wow reading these stories about a drink that VP gave girls kind-of brings back some memories....
When VP invited me into his motorcoach to ride for Emporai to Ohio, I was totally elated.
My alarms went way off when he led me to the back bedroom. ( My mother told me that you never go into a man's bedrooom, and you never let a man into you bedrom until you are married).
So My alarms went off. VP offered me a drink, I didn't take it.
Praise YA. He treid to touch my breasts, I pushed him away SEVERAL times. He told me I was not mature of a woman of God bla bla bla. He let me go back to the thefront of the motorcoach (relife) and the other 7th Corps girl went in there with him and she stayed all night.. EEUU..
I figured taht she ****** him adn I lsot all respect for her.
When VP wanted us all corps to write our deep dark sins on paper for him, I thought in my head F******* you you F*****ing ***-hole. You will NEVER know my sins...
I knew at that point that he wanted to know everybody's weakness so he could crucify us later.....
SO there. Another story from a truth speaking woman about VP and his lewd obnoxious behavior to women.
I am sooo glad my alarms went off and I did not drink anything with him!!
I remember giving him sivler coins I had diligently collected from Reno casinos, and he said that I should have "listened to God and given him a bottle of Drambuie". I was so crushed when he said that. I worked so hard adn spent alot of time getting all those silver coins for the f****er.
After that incident and after him humiliating me in front of the Corps by FALSLEY accusing me of having sex, I NEVER EVER trusted the guy, never wanted to be near him, but put on the happy smiley face etc when I had to, (Corps grad etc). When he was around, even had pictures take with him....
I had to put on the front, because NO ONE would have believed me.....
I know that MANY of us girls rebuffed him.
But we did not know about each other. We were all so full of fear that we would be digraced and kicked out bla bla bla.
Of course we would have turned into a GRSASESPOT by morning!!!!!
We really believed it!!!!!
Valerie
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
{{{{{valerie}}}}}
Lucky for you that you hadn't lost all ability/willingness to listen when the alarms sounded.
If you don't mind...
What do you think now of that girl who stayed the night then? Do you think that she thought you had done "it" with vpw? Do you think that maybe she figured if she didn't do "it", too, that you'd be part of the shunning and shaming?
It's very interesting to look at situations again after the twi-colored glasses have been removed...or at least cleaned.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Valerie
Makes me wonder if the other girl had the drink!?!
I am so glad you showed up. I believe it was you, Sunesis and I who had this talk before and it SOOOO helped me get over thinking I did something wrong... Or whatever.... The crazies trying to figure it all out.
I was going to adk VAL are you out there but then I thought maybe it was Kay.
Anyway, thanks for bringing it all up for anyone to read. Thank you for sharing those few years back, you have no idea of what your story did for me...
So sorry you went through being talked about at lunch! How awful! After I was MARKED at a meeting with about 300 people (it really does somethng to ya) my biggest fear was he would humiliate me at lunch. I knew everyone would beleive him and nobody would believe me.
It paralyzed me.
But now we are free and God help them if they call us a devil for speaking up.
How about a thread called "Wild things" where you can share the gun story! That was wild.
I will start it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Al Poole
I would have asked you Dot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dabobbada
Valerie,
You may not remember me, but we were on the wow field together in Amarillo. I am Bob Hansen and I was in the Ephesians twig with Roger Stark and Jo Ann Clark.
I didn't get to know you very well because the oberfuhrer Barb Grey chose me to be her personal enemy, so it wasn't a good idea to go to her place. I read where you said how poorly she treated and used you too. It didn't really surprise me.
I always remembered you as the wholesome clean-cut all american middle class girl. What VP did to you, what the corps, and your corps husband did to you made my blood boil. The crap you went thru saddened me immensely. Your testemonies were what absolutely locked out any last vestiges of doubts about VP and the perversities in TWI.
I was impressed with your accounting of your military service. You go girl. I am glad you have found a good life and husband and that it is well with you.
Thanks for the pictures of the wow year. It was good to see bob Wyda and Phil and the others. That was quite a wierd year but God made it a good one in spite of Barbera Greystapo.
May God's peace be upon you all your days.
Way II much fun for one man.
love ya,
Bob Hansen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Hey Bob, could you send me that pic, I might be in that...
oldiesmanpics@aol.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dabobbada
oldiesman,
The pictures I was refering to are the ones she posted in the Every Picture Tells a Story forum.
Were you an Amarillo '74 WOW?
Way II much fun for one man.
love ya,
Bob Hansen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Bob, yeah that's me alright, 29 years ago...
LOL...
Geeze to be young again, Valerie thx for the memories.
I'd like to find out where Brother Wyda disappeared to, does anyone know?
Sorry for the derail but I have to share this story about what kind of a great Christian brother Bob Hansen is:
On the Amarillo WOW year I'm driving my wow sister's Opel Manta down the highway, I get in the left lane to pass and get side-swiped by a huge truck. It demolishes the car and the truck disappears. A policeman comes on the scene (a way believer!) and a bit later, my wow sister who owns the car, and Bob Hansen to the rescue. As my WOW sister leers at me with a look of disdain and disgust on the vile peon slimeball who recked her car, Bob surveys the situation, and with razor sharp wisdom says, "well, the devil just tried to kill Phil." He then proceeded to lend us his car, "old blue" which performed admirably for the rest of the year.
Bob you got me out of the soup that day and I'll never forget that. Thanks so much.
Now back to our regularly scheduled Wierwille-bashing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.