Well done, my friend! Excellent information there! Exactly what I was looking for!
Well folks, this might see a bit off topic, but I started this post so I suppose I can continue any way I like with it. Ha! Ha!
View this as you may -- it is only an OBSERVATION. It is my own thought, and it makes sense to me. Let's see if anyone else can agree with it...
It is about TREES in general. (and I am certainly no authority on botany, by any stretch)
TWI structured itself like a tree, most likely because of the verse in a Psalm, "He shall be like a tree, planted by the waters..." with twigs, branches, limbs, trunks, root, etc. But they never actually let it function as a tree would in nature.
They agree that it is the root which gathers in the nutrients and moisture from the soil, and distributes this "nourishment" throughout the tree. This they do from TWI every Sunday, and 6 times a year with the magazine, etc.
And we know that the leaves on the tree (which equate to the "followers") supply needed nutrients as well, and TWI is HAPPY to accept that from each leaf in the form of MONEY.
But my beef is that leaves themselves on a REAL TREE do something very special for the growth of the entire tree. It is called photosynthesis. To my knowledge, the leaves gather in SUNLIGHT (energy, etc) directly from the sun and convert it into glucose (a special kind of sugar) which is transported through the twig, to the branch, limb, trunk, and then to the root. The root collects this and distributes it back to the tree where it is needed.
To me, this "energy" collected from "the source", as it were, is like a simple follower having worked the Word and found something of value for the whole ministry. Yet, there seems no avenue available at TWI for such things. The tree is attempting to survive by the nutrients it has found IN THE GROUND only.
Now, the ground contains nutrients which were part of that which "used to be". That is, other trees which have died and decayed, along with other living things now decayed -- sort of like "fossil fuel". To me this equates to that which was part of what was originally taught in PFAL. Yet even that (and some have noticed the plagerism from at least one work of Bullinger's (How to Enjoy the Bible --- it reads just like PFAL --- if you every looked at it). I call this "fossil fuel".
Once that nutrient is exhausted, there is only one way to get more of it. The roots need to expand outward! And this cannot happen just by drinking in the moisture after the rain. Photosynthesis provides the root with essential food in order for the root to expand into "new territory". And also, even that which is supplied by the leaves is itself just like that which is in the ground, because it contains energy, just like the fossil fuel has retained it from long ago.
Without accepting what the leaves have to offer, TWI has become stagnant, and shall remain that way. Trees would die it it were not for photosynthesis being in operation.
Well, glad it's makes sense. In this context and given your example of the tree, spectrum, I can't see why you'd be a member of any degree in the Way then. At best, if you like the teachings or the friends around you, a light participant perhaps, if that level of involvement is allowed. But I can't see being a full-bore member if you mean what you say.
The idea of the Way Tree is an organizational structure. It's a root-goes-out system. Look at all of the documentation from over the years from the Way about it's structure modelled after how a tree fucntions and there has never been a leaf/fruit to root flow, except for one. Money.
I'd add to your example, not being a botanist either - the org model of a tree from the root out is a growth model, it's how a tree grows. Seed takes root, grows up and out to a sapling, limbs and then branches form and then from there is the leaves and fruit.
The Way Tree example worked well for the Way because it's primary goal was "Word Over the World" - growth. Despite the work put into "twigs", there was no real plan for what to do as the Way grew and matured. What do people do after 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, with families, business, etc. There was effort put on those topics and areas of course but it wasn't successful. People kept cycling back through the system instead of settling down and hmmm...taking up their own "tree" of growth model.
In retrospect it was a pretty disorganized and shallow affair in many ways. Lots of good people but if there was a grand vision it never came into full focus, certainly not how to achieve it and then enjoy and build on any success. Remember too, all of this happened within a very short period of time - from what most people would know as the start of the way in 1967 to the death of VPW in 1985 was less then 20 years. Time enough to establish something that could continue, certainly but it clearly didn't. It's still there today but they're struggling to find their uh, way.
The growth model stayed in effect, as the only substantial avenues for continuation with the Way was to feed back into the Root - the Headquaters and root locations. You're comments address that topic, I think.
Once a tree grows, those parts of it that have grown up and out contribute to the overall health of the tree, yes. The Way never saw how to do that, how to be something other than what they were when they started.
The other important thing I could see in the tree example is that the root is fed from the ground to stay healthy. If there's poison in the water it will indeed die.
In answering another poster on another thread, I began to quote this verse of Scripture. Is it God or what!
Jude 12
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
Talk about using trees for an analogy! Geez Louise!
I wanted to add on to the relationship-with-Jesus-Christ deal, couple things.
The fellowship aspect to what The Way built over the years was, IMO, one of the most important aspects of the whole thing. We'd quack on for hours if you let us, back in the day, about "it" being "The Word, it's the Word, what's the Word say, we're here for the Word, the Word the Word the Word" and that's fine. But in many ways it was like finding gold in the hills somewhere and then celebrating over striking it rich. Come Monday morning though somebody's going to have to grab a shovel and a pick.
The work to be done was more than study and research though. "The Word" isn't only a physical thing that needs to be managed and "worked", word by word. The Way taught in PFAL and touched on it - God is "the Word", the Logos, known by the written word, declared by the living word Christ. The goal is to have some sort of relationship with God that's meaningful and real, today, by me. And God.
If that was all academic and the goal was to have a correctly formed understanding of God and hmm, stuff, whatever goes along with it, like life - then fine. But the "Word", the bible itself points continually to a real relationship that includes my mind, my whole life. Stuff now. "Living".
If Jesus Christ exists today in a way that He would be part of that there has to be a relationship. Of some kind. He informs my entire understanding of God, His way gives me the way, is the way. I don't think it's possible to disconnect from that, from Him. Ignore him or limit His role and how I view it, but not disconnect. The relationship is more than a description of how to act or conduct business. It's built into the way God has all of this working.
I don't think it's limited in any way, today. It's different than what it was. Paul's writings said that - even if they'd known Christ after the flesh, they no longer knew Him that way. They were "amabassadors" for Christ, the whole of Who He'd been and who He was "now". The message and information has to focus on that, and He's not alive and gassing up every morning on coffee and bagels somewhere.
It's different. Duh, right? It appears that the fullest understanding and benefit of the relationship comes from fellowship - the "body" of Christ, including the "head". A temple that brings glory to God, together.
Fellowship is everything. People are of the utmost importance. From God's standpoint, if there's no people it's like a well laid out party with one guy in the corner blowing a noisemaker and yelling "wheeee!". The band's playing through "Isn't She Lovely" for the 1000th time, and is ready to take a smoke break.
There's gifts on the table but no one's there to get theirs. Cake, perfectly cut. Plates and forks. Nobody's there. No fellowship, no body, waddya got? A lot, there's a lot, but not that.
it speaks to me, of the juvenile mindset the organization itself had with regard to honest research.
If the work is original, yet faults the proclivities of the upper ups, we bury it..
If the work is good enough, and flashy enough to draw in more crowds, we steal it..
----------------------------------------
Wow Mr. Hammeroni! I guess I didn't REALLY read what you had to say until recently. Very interesting observation! Makes perfect sense to me! If somebody really DOES have something worth while to share, then consider God's work in that situation, Who really does not like us to "give our pearls unto swine" ! !
In an effort to keep this Word "sacred", God himself could intervene and do everything He could to keep "the swine" from STEALING IT AWAY, and merely using it for their own benefit to DRAW MORE CROWDS, etc.
That could explain to me why I may have had little success in trying to "reach" the ministry concerning something very VALUABLE INDEED. It is NOT as though they did not care for it (which perhaps they really don't after all). It is NOT as though much confusion and wasted time has come about from it over the years, because it seemed that the leadership "did not have the time for it." (and they are so busy with their own agenda that it IS that way anyways) It is NOT because that over the years while it was developing that I merely lacked the PROOF they needed to understand it. (after all, I do believe anyone with half-a-brain could see it if they wanted to try).
It is as you had implied.....perhaps their only interest in it would be to PLAGERIZE it and use it for their own agenda of "peddling more Foundational Classes" in order to amass more crowds with more Abundant Sharing $$ to continue, ad infinitim!
But it seems that perhaps GOD ALMIGHTY may have been "assisting" all along in some way to make sure TWI could NEVER STEAL IT! At least that explanation puts GOD in charge of the situation!
PLEASE tell me that makes some sort of sense to you!
-----------------------------------
And for you, Socks:
QUOTE (Of Socks)
"We'd quack on for hours if you let us, back in the day, about "it" being "The Word, it's the Word, what's the Word say, we're here for the Word, the Word the Word the Word" and that's fine. But in many ways it was like finding gold in the hills somewhere and then celebrating over striking it rich. Come Monday morning though somebody's going to have to grab a shovel and a pick."
END QUOTE
Perhaps they were on the verge of actually discovering the Gold in the Hills, as you said. It seems that they were on the right track, but decided what they had already WAS the "motherload". And they stopped at that, believing it was "good enough". "It works for us." "We don't need any more." "Look at all the followers we have already!" "Let us NEVER CHANGE A THING FROM HERE ON!" "And if anyone even DARES to try to change us with any "additional research" beyond the RICHES we have already, we MUST SHUT THEM DOWN!!!!"
And Socks...I love what you said -- "Come Monday morning though somebody's going to have to grab a shovel and a pick."
FYI, for me, "Monday morning" came quite a while ago. I dared to grab a shovel and a pick. Too bad that TWI did not continue just a little bit further and settled for what they already had, which is NOTHING in comparrison to what is REALLY AVAILABLE! Keep in touch, my friend....
-------------------------------------------
I LOVE GREASESPOT! It makes one THINK AND CONSIDER!
I don't know many of you yet, but I have gotten really aquainted to Belle, and to T-Bone, and now perhaps Socks and somewhat as well with many others. I am happy to have met all of you, and look forward to sharing more with you.
And I believe that, in time, I will have the opportunity to become closer to many more of you "greasespots" -- But I have just a bit more "work" to do in the meantime....
So, y'all believe with me for success, and keep me in your prayers..........OK??
I LOVE YOU!
Spectrum49 (hidden meaning there for damn sure!)
aka: "Mystery" - more of the same, and also just being "cute" because my last name begins with an "E". Get it?
...So, in other words, the very name of the ministry meant "The Way, the Truth, and the Life" -- or simply said, the "Ministry of Jesus Christ". That made a lot of sense to me. I was excited and proud in the 70's at the young age of 24 to be part of a Biblical Research Ministry whose purpose seemed to be to uncover truth which has been hidden for centuries and share that with people, as it was for many a year....
This reminds me of something very important - there's a thread that should be required reading for all new members:
Just read the above thread – it's a marvelous exercise in critical thinking and cause to re-examine what sold us on vpw and TWI in the first place…Don't get me wrong - that's a good post, Spectrum – but TWI's problems go much deeper than that! From your posts, PMs and emails it's obvious to me you've got a lot on the ball – the only thing I can offer for advice is be patient - you can't process this all in one month...
Spectrum,
TWI was a fraud.
Period.
Now we can discuss the merits of the different theological points adopted by TWI, but the fact of the matter is that each one of those was taken, without attribution, by VPW. You can look at any number of threads in the Doctrinal Forum to discover this for yourself. Use of the intellectual property of another without giving that other attribution is plagerism, pure and simple. Plagerism is a form of theft.
There are others who post here that would be better to detail exactly what was plagerized and from whom it was stolen than I could ever imagine to be. I am certain that they would be happy to again address the issue with you....
MarkOMalley speaks for many of us here. vpw was a boldfaced liar. That came as a real shock to me back in 1987. Look in my gallery Blast from the past – you'll see a letter I received from the Moody Correspondence School. After I left in 86 - I not only began looking at all his teachings, "logic" and methods of interpretation but also checked out his credentials. vpw claimed he took everything Moody Correspondence School had to offer – yet the letter I posted states they have no record of him ever completing a course with them.
It's all these "little details" about the man that add up to an overall picture of a con artist. This, my friend, is a bitter pill to swallow. Yes – truly it's tough – because it calls into question so many things that TWI followers took for granted. Things that we assumed were bedrock become quicksand…I know the feeling well – first comes the shock…then denial.
But I don't mean to be a downer – in thinking about Jesus being the way, the truth and the life – maybe the solution is not as complicated as we think – He's the Shepherd who goes out looking for the lost sheep. TWI took the place of the "absent Christ." But the only way He was absent was in our thinking. You know, after I left I started reading the gospels like crazy – even felt guilty for awhile because of TWI's hyperdispensational viewpoint. But reading about Jesus…thinking about Jesus…communing with Jesus, got me re-focused on what matters most…Jesus!
MarkOMalley speaks for many of us here. vpw was a boldfaced liar.
I love this website. I have lurked here for years, and posted just as long. I can't remeber what the thread was where I told someone that we come here because we are familiar with it. We/I am comfortable here.
I got into the way in 1984. I remeber right before a wonderful lady named Cathy Tateo witnessed to me I started having very dark and bad nightmares. Eventually it got to the point where I was afraid to go to sleep. I was 24 years old, living with my Mom, and I tried to sleep with her because the dreams were so bad.
When I met Cathy, she tells me about twig. Shealso talks to me about Jesus, and closes our first coversation with something to the effect that if I come to twig with her I will sleep better. This floored me, and I still don't know what to make of that. She could have been operating real HS manifestations or she could have had familiar spirits like John Edward, hell, I just don't know, nor do I care.
I read the posts that talk about how F*%ed up VPW was, and how LCM was a bastard, and God knows the truth. Horrible things happened to people. Around 1988, I started feeling VERY SORRY for the people I twigged with. Most of them were from another state. There wasn't very many people native to the Bay Area that stuck around. There were classes going on all the time, but the locals weren't down for it long-term. So what we had was hundreds of people in Oakland, Hayward, Alameda and accross the Bay that were nomads.
I think this contributed to much of the sexual disfunction. I am so glad I escaped it, but I know everybody was screwing everybody. My then husband had affairs with at least 4 women that I knew about, maybe more. It was really sad to watch and realize that these people had no where to go. I remember after twig on Sunday everyone would just hang out at someone's house till bedtime. I think I escaped it all because my family was in Berkeley and I could go home.
I was so naive back then. I really believed what was taught in the PFAL class. Over the years I have asked myself some hard questions, and I am confident that I made correct choices concerning the so-called ministry. I know now how low-down the so-called MOG were. I also know there were Real Men that really loved God and tried to be Bible Men. They really tried, or at least that is what I saw. I remember a man named Phillip Bannadies. He was a real inspiration. And Jim Stutz, God rest his soul. I believe they loved God and the Word.
I know Phil is still plugging away at it somewhere on the coast of CA. It seems so sad to me, to find out it was all a lie. But you know what? I learned about God. I learned to trust him, and a real hard lesson was learning not to trust men. I saw firsthand how God will give men a reprobate mind, and I saw men whose consciences had been seared with a hot iron. While I know now how absolutely F*$#*D up the whole thing was, I am thankful for it. I am thankful that Paw (I think it's him) put this site together, where we can still come and hang out with each other. I often wonder if the way was so drastically wrong, and most the folks that come here came out of the way, how screwed up are you/we? Have we learned anything about honestly, love, compassion, forgiveness and how to treat people? The chanced that men and women here slept with others that weren't their spouses, that someone here terrorized someone else and pretty strong.
So when we all talk about VPW and LCM, it stands to reason some of us did as we were taught. And I hope we have learned something - to not treat people that way anymore.
Peace,
RachelYsrael
Remember. Remember. Remember. I can spell it right if I try really hard.
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spectrum49
SOCKS!
Well done, my friend! Excellent information there! Exactly what I was looking for!
Well folks, this might see a bit off topic, but I started this post so I suppose I can continue any way I like with it. Ha! Ha!
View this as you may -- it is only an OBSERVATION. It is my own thought, and it makes sense to me. Let's see if anyone else can agree with it...
It is about TREES in general. (and I am certainly no authority on botany, by any stretch)
TWI structured itself like a tree, most likely because of the verse in a Psalm, "He shall be like a tree, planted by the waters..." with twigs, branches, limbs, trunks, root, etc. But they never actually let it function as a tree would in nature.
They agree that it is the root which gathers in the nutrients and moisture from the soil, and distributes this "nourishment" throughout the tree. This they do from TWI every Sunday, and 6 times a year with the magazine, etc.
And we know that the leaves on the tree (which equate to the "followers") supply needed nutrients as well, and TWI is HAPPY to accept that from each leaf in the form of MONEY.
But my beef is that leaves themselves on a REAL TREE do something very special for the growth of the entire tree. It is called photosynthesis. To my knowledge, the leaves gather in SUNLIGHT (energy, etc) directly from the sun and convert it into glucose (a special kind of sugar) which is transported through the twig, to the branch, limb, trunk, and then to the root. The root collects this and distributes it back to the tree where it is needed.
To me, this "energy" collected from "the source", as it were, is like a simple follower having worked the Word and found something of value for the whole ministry. Yet, there seems no avenue available at TWI for such things. The tree is attempting to survive by the nutrients it has found IN THE GROUND only.
Now, the ground contains nutrients which were part of that which "used to be". That is, other trees which have died and decayed, along with other living things now decayed -- sort of like "fossil fuel". To me this equates to that which was part of what was originally taught in PFAL. Yet even that (and some have noticed the plagerism from at least one work of Bullinger's (How to Enjoy the Bible --- it reads just like PFAL --- if you every looked at it). I call this "fossil fuel".
Once that nutrient is exhausted, there is only one way to get more of it. The roots need to expand outward! And this cannot happen just by drinking in the moisture after the rain. Photosynthesis provides the root with essential food in order for the root to expand into "new territory". And also, even that which is supplied by the leaves is itself just like that which is in the ground, because it contains energy, just like the fossil fuel has retained it from long ago.
Without accepting what the leaves have to offer, TWI has become stagnant, and shall remain that way. Trees would die it it were not for photosynthesis being in operation.
Just a thought -----
Spec
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socks
Well, glad it's makes sense. In this context and given your example of the tree, spectrum, I can't see why you'd be a member of any degree in the Way then. At best, if you like the teachings or the friends around you, a light participant perhaps, if that level of involvement is allowed. But I can't see being a full-bore member if you mean what you say.
The idea of the Way Tree is an organizational structure. It's a root-goes-out system. Look at all of the documentation from over the years from the Way about it's structure modelled after how a tree fucntions and there has never been a leaf/fruit to root flow, except for one. Money.
I'd add to your example, not being a botanist either - the org model of a tree from the root out is a growth model, it's how a tree grows. Seed takes root, grows up and out to a sapling, limbs and then branches form and then from there is the leaves and fruit.
The Way Tree example worked well for the Way because it's primary goal was "Word Over the World" - growth. Despite the work put into "twigs", there was no real plan for what to do as the Way grew and matured. What do people do after 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, with families, business, etc. There was effort put on those topics and areas of course but it wasn't successful. People kept cycling back through the system instead of settling down and hmmm...taking up their own "tree" of growth model.
In retrospect it was a pretty disorganized and shallow affair in many ways. Lots of good people but if there was a grand vision it never came into full focus, certainly not how to achieve it and then enjoy and build on any success. Remember too, all of this happened within a very short period of time - from what most people would know as the start of the way in 1967 to the death of VPW in 1985 was less then 20 years. Time enough to establish something that could continue, certainly but it clearly didn't. It's still there today but they're struggling to find their uh, way.
The growth model stayed in effect, as the only substantial avenues for continuation with the Way was to feed back into the Root - the Headquaters and root locations. You're comments address that topic, I think.
Once a tree grows, those parts of it that have grown up and out contribute to the overall health of the tree, yes. The Way never saw how to do that, how to be something other than what they were when they started.
The other important thing I could see in the tree example is that the root is fed from the ground to stay healthy. If there's poison in the water it will indeed die.
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waysider
"I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a -----------------"
OOPS!
I guess someone beat me to that one.
A tree has a special layer that exists between the bark and the wood.
This layer is known as the cambium.
It is via this cambium that food moves from the leaves down to the roots and nutrients move up from the roots to the fruit.
The bark is a protective layer and the wood itself is actually comprised of dead cells.
This is, in part, what contributes to the formation of growth rings which are akin to generational demarcations.
Many years ago, the limb leader of Ohio, E@rl Bnrt0n, developed a newsletter for the state and called it The Buckeye Cambium.
Now, if the way truly functioned as a tree, this would seem to be an appropriate name.
Quickly, though, the name was scuttled by Int. HQ and replaced with The Grapevine.
It was my understanding that an edict went out that all state newsletters must call themselves The Grapevine.
To say that the way was structured like a tree is, at best, a poor analogy.
Here is a link that has information regarding the significance of the cambium to the well being of a growing tree.
http://www.backyardnature.net/woodtwi2.htm
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brideofjc
Dear Spectrum:
Just another timely warning since you use the analogy of a tree and how it is fed. Part of the food that
the tree absorbs through nutrients is the DEAD leafs that fall off and lie at the base of the trunk, which
decay and thus become food for the tree itself that formed it.
I'll fly away oh glory, I'll fly away
When I die Hallelujah by and by
I'll fly away.
As my seminary prof so suitably sized it up in one of his lectures,
"When the horse dies, DISMOUNT!
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brideofjc
In answering another poster on another thread, I began to quote this verse of Scripture. Is it God or what!
Jude 12
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
Talk about using trees for an analogy! Geez Louise!
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socks
I wanted to add on to the relationship-with-Jesus-Christ deal, couple things.
The fellowship aspect to what The Way built over the years was, IMO, one of the most important aspects of the whole thing. We'd quack on for hours if you let us, back in the day, about "it" being "The Word, it's the Word, what's the Word say, we're here for the Word, the Word the Word the Word" and that's fine. But in many ways it was like finding gold in the hills somewhere and then celebrating over striking it rich. Come Monday morning though somebody's going to have to grab a shovel and a pick.
The work to be done was more than study and research though. "The Word" isn't only a physical thing that needs to be managed and "worked", word by word. The Way taught in PFAL and touched on it - God is "the Word", the Logos, known by the written word, declared by the living word Christ. The goal is to have some sort of relationship with God that's meaningful and real, today, by me. And God.
If that was all academic and the goal was to have a correctly formed understanding of God and hmm, stuff, whatever goes along with it, like life - then fine. But the "Word", the bible itself points continually to a real relationship that includes my mind, my whole life. Stuff now. "Living".
If Jesus Christ exists today in a way that He would be part of that there has to be a relationship. Of some kind. He informs my entire understanding of God, His way gives me the way, is the way. I don't think it's possible to disconnect from that, from Him. Ignore him or limit His role and how I view it, but not disconnect. The relationship is more than a description of how to act or conduct business. It's built into the way God has all of this working.
I don't think it's limited in any way, today. It's different than what it was. Paul's writings said that - even if they'd known Christ after the flesh, they no longer knew Him that way. They were "amabassadors" for Christ, the whole of Who He'd been and who He was "now". The message and information has to focus on that, and He's not alive and gassing up every morning on coffee and bagels somewhere.
It's different. Duh, right? It appears that the fullest understanding and benefit of the relationship comes from fellowship - the "body" of Christ, including the "head". A temple that brings glory to God, together.
Fellowship is everything. People are of the utmost importance. From God's standpoint, if there's no people it's like a well laid out party with one guy in the corner blowing a noisemaker and yelling "wheeee!". The band's playing through "Isn't She Lovely" for the 1000th time, and is ready to take a smoke break.
There's gifts on the table but no one's there to get theirs. Cake, perfectly cut. Plates and forks. Nobody's there. No fellowship, no body, waddya got? A lot, there's a lot, but not that.
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spectrum49
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T-Bone
This reminds me of something very important - there's a thread that should be required reading for all new members:
The Way: Living in Wonderland by Word Wolf
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=178369
Just read the above thread – it's a marvelous exercise in critical thinking and cause to re-examine what sold us on vpw and TWI in the first place…Don't get me wrong - that's a good post, Spectrum – but TWI's problems go much deeper than that! From your posts, PMs and emails it's obvious to me you've got a lot on the ball – the only thing I can offer for advice is be patient - you can't process this all in one month...
MarkOMalley speaks for many of us here. vpw was a boldfaced liar. That came as a real shock to me back in 1987. Look in my gallery Blast from the past – you'll see a letter I received from the Moody Correspondence School. After I left in 86 - I not only began looking at all his teachings, "logic" and methods of interpretation but also checked out his credentials. vpw claimed he took everything Moody Correspondence School had to offer – yet the letter I posted states they have no record of him ever completing a course with them.
It's all these "little details" about the man that add up to an overall picture of a con artist. This, my friend, is a bitter pill to swallow. Yes – truly it's tough – because it calls into question so many things that TWI followers took for granted. Things that we assumed were bedrock become quicksand…I know the feeling well – first comes the shock…then denial.
But I don't mean to be a downer – in thinking about Jesus being the way, the truth and the life – maybe the solution is not as complicated as we think – He's the Shepherd who goes out looking for the lost sheep. TWI took the place of the "absent Christ." But the only way He was absent was in our thinking. You know, after I left I started reading the gospels like crazy – even felt guilty for awhile because of TWI's hyperdispensational viewpoint. But reading about Jesus…thinking about Jesus…communing with Jesus, got me re-focused on what matters most…Jesus!
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RachelYsrael
I love this website. I have lurked here for years, and posted just as long. I can't remeber what the thread was where I told someone that we come here because we are familiar with it. We/I am comfortable here.
I got into the way in 1984. I remeber right before a wonderful lady named Cathy Tateo witnessed to me I started having very dark and bad nightmares. Eventually it got to the point where I was afraid to go to sleep. I was 24 years old, living with my Mom, and I tried to sleep with her because the dreams were so bad.
When I met Cathy, she tells me about twig. Shealso talks to me about Jesus, and closes our first coversation with something to the effect that if I come to twig with her I will sleep better. This floored me, and I still don't know what to make of that. She could have been operating real HS manifestations or she could have had familiar spirits like John Edward, hell, I just don't know, nor do I care.
I read the posts that talk about how F*%ed up VPW was, and how LCM was a bastard, and God knows the truth. Horrible things happened to people. Around 1988, I started feeling VERY SORRY for the people I twigged with. Most of them were from another state. There wasn't very many people native to the Bay Area that stuck around. There were classes going on all the time, but the locals weren't down for it long-term. So what we had was hundreds of people in Oakland, Hayward, Alameda and accross the Bay that were nomads.
I think this contributed to much of the sexual disfunction. I am so glad I escaped it, but I know everybody was screwing everybody. My then husband had affairs with at least 4 women that I knew about, maybe more. It was really sad to watch and realize that these people had no where to go. I remember after twig on Sunday everyone would just hang out at someone's house till bedtime. I think I escaped it all because my family was in Berkeley and I could go home.
I was so naive back then. I really believed what was taught in the PFAL class. Over the years I have asked myself some hard questions, and I am confident that I made correct choices concerning the so-called ministry. I know now how low-down the so-called MOG were. I also know there were Real Men that really loved God and tried to be Bible Men. They really tried, or at least that is what I saw. I remember a man named Phillip Bannadies. He was a real inspiration. And Jim Stutz, God rest his soul. I believe they loved God and the Word.
I know Phil is still plugging away at it somewhere on the coast of CA. It seems so sad to me, to find out it was all a lie. But you know what? I learned about God. I learned to trust him, and a real hard lesson was learning not to trust men. I saw firsthand how God will give men a reprobate mind, and I saw men whose consciences had been seared with a hot iron. While I know now how absolutely F*$#*D up the whole thing was, I am thankful for it. I am thankful that Paw (I think it's him) put this site together, where we can still come and hang out with each other. I often wonder if the way was so drastically wrong, and most the folks that come here came out of the way, how screwed up are you/we? Have we learned anything about honestly, love, compassion, forgiveness and how to treat people? The chanced that men and women here slept with others that weren't their spouses, that someone here terrorized someone else and pretty strong.
So when we all talk about VPW and LCM, it stands to reason some of us did as we were taught. And I hope we have learned something - to not treat people that way anymore.
Peace,
RachelYsrael
Remember. Remember. Remember. I can spell it right if I try really hard.
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