I remember being exited 1st and formost with the understanding of the bible. The rest of that stuff you speak of I remember being exited about too.
Thank you for sharing Spectrum49.
That is interesting how you percieve the addition of "fellowship." I wonder if instead of a doctrinal error, if that wasn't about the time you started picking up the bad vibes so to speak.
Maybe when fellowship stopped being fellowship in the best biblical sense is the same time that it became a bothersome addition for you.
At any rate, thank you again for sharing, it certainly brought back some good memories.
The Wayisn't and never was a "research" ministry, despite the billing it was given by VPW.
Wierwille plagiarized almost everything he presented as having come to him directly from God.
(Right down to the PLAF class and Holy Spirit book.)
For further clarification of that statement, please refer to the "actual errors" and "doctrinal errors" articles as well as many other references that can be found here using the search function.
So then what WAS The Way?
It was a cleverly constructed multi-level-marketing scheme that used The Bible (and us) as a veneer of holiness to entice prospective customers.
Yes, I know that sounds cold.
Wierwille amassed a small personal fortune at the expense of sincere, dedicated followers.
(Real estate, classic cars, vintage motorcycles, a private jet, a motorcoach, etc.)
He lived "rent free" and had his own entourage of people who were actually willing to pay for the "honor" of being his personal servants.
He "allegedly" drugged and raped many, many female followers and then tossed them aside when he was finished with them.
He "allegedly" destroyed those who stood in his way whenever it was possible for him to do so.
No------The Way was never a "research" ministry.
It was a business designed to profit the man behind the curtain, VPW.
It is RESEARCH that started TWI, and it is only continued research that should be keeping it alive and functioning. Now, not to bad-mouth anyone, but does it not seem logical that a "Biblical Research and Teaching Ministry" should have a vital and ongoing Research Department as its MAIN FUNCTION?
It seemed to make sense to me from the very beginning, that this is "the true ministry of Jesus Christ", because he said he was "the Way, the Truth, and the Life". Equating this together, the Founder called it simply "The Way". Now, Biblical Research is what his ministry did, and in that process was found The Truth. And as that Truth (from the research) was taught, it brought Life.
The "true" ministry of the Lord Jesus is to bring reconciliation between us and the Father through HIS BLOOD and the atonement of the CROSS, not giving us LIFE through research.
So, in other words, the very name of the ministry meant "The Way, the Truth, and the Life" -- or simply said, the "Ministry of Jesus Christ". That made a lot of sense to me. I was excited and proud in the 70's at the young age of 24 to be part of a Biblical Research Ministry whose purpose seemed to be to uncover truth which has been hidden for centuries and share that with people, as it was for many a year.
THE WORD OF GOD has never been hidden and neither has the TRUTH. The Lord Jesus is the TRUTH and through knowledge of HIM that the Scriptures are fully revealed.
But something happened though (around 1988 or so) which was not really realized by many until it hit hardest (at least to my knowledge) around 1989. The ministry was having trouble. You may remember the years following that it was referred to as "the fog".
It was happening before 1988, and as far as the FOG that you are referring to, it was also there, we were just in it and therefore
couldn't see it. Kinda like not being able to see the forest because of the trees.
And even among regular “followers” there are some levels of “chastisement”. Say for instance someone decides to get a Home Mortgage Loan. That is considered “debt”! It is ok to still attend Fellowships and Local Functions, and one can even still teach as well. But because of that “error”, it is not permitted for them to become Fellowship Coordinators or attend Advanced Class Specials, etc, while that debt remains.
WHEW! (wipe sweat off of my brow) I KNEW THAT CREDIT CARD DEBT WAS GOOD FOR SOMETHING!
Even today, TWI refers to itself as “The Way Biblical Research, Teaching, and Fellowship Ministry!!”
Now, this may sound silly to you, or perhaps picking on words like the Pharisees did in the gospels, but to me it is STILL ADDING TO THE WORD.
ADDING TO THE WORD? You pick out that one small inconsequential thing and call it ADDING to the WORD???? Honey, they
ADDED a whole lotta more than that!
There was no “true requirement” for fellowship in the early church, per say; but as far as I can see, this ministry seemed to do just fine as it continued to confine itself to the one very essential task at hand which started it in the first place - Biblical Research and Teaching – and FELLOWSHIPPED AROUND THAT ALONE! There was plenty to be happy about as we learned and grew. (do remember that this “growing” was, and always should be the RESULT of the research and teaching.)
I do believe you did say on another thread that you were still an INNIE? Do yourself a favor and GET OUT OF DODGE! If the research
was so darn good, did they forget to look in the book of Hebrews and the verse that commands that we should not stop meeting together for fellowship? Aww, right....cough, cough...the book of Hebrews wasn't written to the church? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL and furthermore, the "growing" that is supposed to
be done comes from fellowshipping with the Lord Jesus Christ, not each other.
Once one strays from Biblical Research, there can be no real growth, and things just become stagnant.
THE WORD OF GOD has never been hidden and neither has the TRUTH. The Lord Jesus is the TRUTH and through knowledge of HIM that the Scriptures are fully revealed.
brideofjc:
I am not here to argue. I personally do not like people to tell me what to do, like "getting out of Dodge". I have my reasons for what I do, and I will leave when I'm ready, and not because somebody TOLD ME TO, so stop it!
As to your very critical and biting remarks about my post, I suppose I should ask you if you have some strange and wonderful way of "fellowshipping" with the Lord Jesus Christ in person.
I thought it was the SCRIPTURES which (when studied and researched) may reveal who Jesus is to us BY HIS EXAMPLE.
Isn't that HOW you know about him in the first place?
You seem to suppose that it is not necessary to study about him, but knowing him will aid you in understanding the scriptures.
And that is precisely why I asked if you have found a way to fellowship with him OUTSIDE OF THE SCRIPTURES. As "his bride", perhaps he is more willing to reveal himself to you than to me....I am only "part of his body"! Think on that a while.
And also think on this: A common saying is "Live and learn." Personally, I think that is backwards. It should be "Learn and LIVE!"
I do not think brideofjc when brideofjc said "getting out of Dodge" was trying to tell you what to to do as a order but what brideofjc was doing was given you some good advice
Now if you stay around you will see brideofjc is into research as you call it
But as for me research comes last today because I have the "strange and wonderful way of "fellowshipping" with the Lord Jesus Christ in person." the way Apostel Paul did it and many others
Its about a each person personal walk with God and Christ by talking to them
So you like to research the milk of the word or is the word to you the bible
But what is the bible but a book of God's words put together as a whole but in no way whole because to be whole it have to have everything God ever spoke
But let me asked you if you stay in the Way cult WHY? because you seem to see past the lies.
you want some places were the Way blow it let me name a few
1. there was no Gap between Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3
2. Believing is not a law
3. The devil is not a spiritual being
4. you are not born again yet
5. water baptize may not be greatest but that does not take away its value
6. research is just works of the flesh
7. the word of God is still being wrote
8. its wrong to sale the word of God like the Way does
9. tithing is part of the law making it dead
10. tongues are only a small part of the gifts there are others
11. tongues were alive in the Old Testament times
12. the Way is a cult
just to name a few that have been either showed wrong or can be if you just give them time
but stay here and read and fellowship as you learn because the Way will not help you as we will nor will they understand what your feeling as we do
I stay to long in the Way because I wanted try to changed laws on the class because of my research on charging for the class because I saw it wrong so I wrote people like Craig M. and others asking for scripture and verse but here a list of answers I got
1. some things you must take by faith
2. your full of devils
3. your a anti-Christ
4. some one as betwitch you
And the list goes on but no one ever send one scripture back to me and I wrote alot of notes
write your notes to the Way maybe you will get better luck than I did
Wouldn't you have more respect for a research ministry if it actually DID research and also considered the works of other respected theologians/authors? Allowed those authors credit for what work was used/built on (like JE Stiles)?
The reason we were discouraged from reading other authors' work is because we would find out the sources of the "research" already done by TWI.
But never mind that: Let's consider their view of fellowship. There are many wonderful Christian people that you can meet every day. Can TWI members "fellowship" with them? No way, those Christian people must be possessed.
In his eartly ministry JC didn't demand that people hung around with him all the time. In the post-Pentecost period the early Christians didn't make such a demand, either.
In later years TWI has done all it can to restrict who can fellowship with whom. In the prison that is TWI, the phrase "cell group" takes on a whole new dimension.
How convenient to disregard scriptures like Rom 12:16-18. I leave you to check these for yourself, since you like research.
I have to agree with Spectrum49 on one point for sure. It's up to him how long he sticks around and fights for the truth.
The Lord is the one who will judge things like:
Is it love,
Was it worth the sacrifice,
Was he/she following a man or was it following the Lord in spite of the painful result.
I understand well intended advise, but it's still a choice and I know that ultimatly I'm not the judge.
When people say that I wasn't following the Lord I know in my heart that they may be right or they may be wrong, but to pronounce judgment is not their place.
THE WORD OF GOD has never been hidden and neither has the TRUTH. The Lord Jesus is the TRUTH and through knowledge of HIM that the Scriptures are fully revealed.
brideofjc:
I am not here to argue. I personally do not like people to tell me what to do, like "getting out of Dodge". I have my reasons for what I do, and I will leave when I'm ready, and not because somebody TOLD ME TO, so stop it!
Bro/Sis??? That was my advice to you. Whether you take it or leave it is up to you. But when you saw (or did you) the dust trails rising up on the horizon as thousands of people were leaving 20 years ago, did you not approach the One True God and ask HIM what YOU should do?
As to your very critical and biting remarks about my post, I suppose I should ask you if you have some strange and wonderful way of "fellowshipping" with the Lord Jesus Christ in person.
YES!!!! HIS NAME.... is called the HOLY SPIRIT! Please notice I gave HIM a GENDER! Another LIE from the pit of hell. Ya see, I found this
fellowingshipping principle in the GOSPELS.... that was written to the CHURCH! Spectrum, don't want to be rude (I know it sounds like it anyway), TWI
manufactured so many LIES that it took the HOLY SPIRIT at least 10 years of my life to UNDO THE DAMAGE that they caused.
I thought it was the SCRIPTURES which (when studied and researched) may reveal who Jesus is to us BY HIS EXAMPLE.
Isn't that HOW you know about him in the first place?
Spectrum...simply more advice...how do you make friends in the physical? Is it not by talking and having good conversation
with the person as you get to know them? The Scriptures will help you get to KNOW ABOUT the LORD JESUS, but they will not help you to
actually KNOW HIM.
I remember being taught that basically, the Lord Jesus was out of the picture for the most part because HE did all that HE was supposed to do and that HE
was sitting up there on HIS throne next to the Father, smoking his Ceegar and watching the people flick down below. I know you won't find too many
John Lynn fans here either....but soon after CES started he issued an article titled, "Can we talk to Jesus?" That was a MIND BLOWER for me, because
I had been so schooled not to talk to HIM because the Holy Father might get ....ed off and fry me for breakfast.
So when the time came in 1993 that I really wanted to quit smoking (I was desperate) I looked up at my ceiling and said something to this effect, "JESUS,
I don't know if I'm supposed to talk with you or not. Father forgive me for talking to HIM. JESUS, could you please help me quit smoking....(hurriedly),
IN THE NAME OF JESUS! Hunched up my shoulders, squinted my eyes and waiting for the subsequent lightning and the resultant grease spot on my carpet
that my daughter would never get out. BUT IT NEVER CAME!
You seem to suppose that it is not necessary to study about him, but knowing him will aid you in understanding the scriptures.
And that is precisely why I asked if you have found a way to fellowship with him OUTSIDE OF THE SCRIPTURES. As "his bride", perhaps he is more willing to reveal himself to you than to me....I am only "part of his body"! Think on that a while.
And also think on this: A common saying is "Live and learn." Personally, I think that is backwards. It should be "Learn and LIVE!"
THE WORD OF GOD has never been hidden and neither has the TRUTH. The Lord Jesus is the TRUTH and through knowledge of HIM that the Scriptures are fully revealed.
brideofjc:
I am not here to argue. I personally do not like people to tell me what to do, like "getting out of Dodge". I have my reasons for what I do, and I will leave when I'm ready, and not because somebody TOLD ME TO, so stop it!
Bro/Sis??? That was my advice to you. Whether you take it or leave it is up to you. But when you saw (or did you) the dust trails rising up on the horizon as thousands of people were leaving 20 years ago, did you not approach the One True God and ask HIM what YOU should do?
As to your very critical and biting remarks about my post, I suppose I should ask you if you have some strange and wonderful way of "fellowshipping" with the Lord Jesus Christ in person.
YES!!!! HIS NAME.... is called the HOLY SPIRIT! Please notice I gave HIM a GENDER! Another LIE from the pit of hell. Ya see, I found this
fellowshipping principle in the GOSPELS.... that was written to the CHURCH! Spectrum, don't want to be rude (I know it sounds like it anyway), TWI
manufactured so many LIES that it took the HOLY SPIRIT at least 10 years of my life to UNDO THE DAMAGE that they caused.
I thought it was the SCRIPTURES which (when studied and researched) may reveal who Jesus is to us BY HIS EXAMPLE.
Isn't that HOW you know about him in the first place?
Spectrum...simply more advice...how do you make friends in the physical? Is it not by talking and having good conversation
with the person as you get to know them? The Scriptures will help you get to KNOW ABOUT the LORD JESUS, but they will not help you to
actually KNOW HIM.
I remember being taught that basically, the Lord Jesus was out of the picture for the most part because HE did all that HE was supposed to do and that HE
was sitting up there on HIS throne next to the Father, smoking his Ceegar and watching the people flick down below. I know you won't find too many
John Lynn fans here either....but soon after CES started he issued an article titled, "Can we talk to Jesus?" That was a MIND BLOWER for me, because
I had been so schooled not to talk to HIM because the Holy Father might get ....ed off and fry me for breakfast.
So when the time came in 1993 that I really wanted to quit smoking (I was desperate) I looked up at my ceiling and said something to this effect, "JESUS,
I don't know if I'm supposed to talk with you or not. Father forgive me for talking to HIM. JESUS, Lord...could you please help me quit smoking....(hurriedly),
IN THE NAME OF JESUS! Hunched up my shoulders, squinted my eyes and waiting for the subsequent lightning and the resultant grease spot on my carpet
that my daughter would never get out. BUT IT NEVER CAME! WOW, what a Revelation! I had very little faith...and I waited for the nicotine rush to hit
and you know what....? It never came. THE LORD JESUS responded to me when I called HIM Lord. Whether he removed the nicotine from my body
or cast the demon of addiction to it out...I do not know. That was 14 1/2 years ago and I still do not smoke. It was like I had never had a smoke
in my life. No pain at all.
You seem to suppose that it is not necessary to study about him, but knowing him will aid you in understanding the scriptures.
And that is precisely why I asked if you have found a way to fellowship with him OUTSIDE OF THE SCRIPTURES. As "his bride", perhaps he is more willing to reveal himself to you than to me....I am only "part of his body"! Think on that a while.
I have thought about it...for a very long time. And Yes, HUSBANDS DO TALK TO THEIR BRIDES...don't you talk to your spouse? If you have one that is. I'm not going to suppose that you have never....but try it again...and do it the way it should really be done. like the old Gospel song,
"Just have a little talk with JESUS." You will be amazed at HIS RESPONSE to you, if you will just call HIM....LORD JESUS and really mean it in your
heart and not just a convenient ending on a prayer...like swiping a credit card to pay for what you want.
You know what??? HE'S DYING...HE DIED TO MEET YOU....Spectrum....HE'S WAITING....
Now on a more specific note, since I know were in the Doctrinal dungeon down here were tempers sometimes can flair, although I am not sure why, since all of us see in part through a dark glass, only some don't care to acknowledge that..
But Spectrum49, you did open yourself up by posting here for others to give there opinion.
I presonally don't care for people to tell me what to do either, but I don't think that was brideofjc's point.
The point that was mentioned I have to say I do agree with which brideofjc, year2027, and Sunesis mention is that The Way left out the most important thing when it comes to following our Lord and Savior. That is the fellowship we are to have with our Heavenly Father AND HIS son.
Sure, fellowship with one another is important also. We need it all. The iron sharpening iron, the 3 fold cord that's not easily broken. No doubt about it. We are part of Christ's body for a purpose, we are called together to fellowship for a great and wonderful purpose. But that's not really where it all begins. Or at least as far as I see in the scriptures.
The first and most important being fellowship with God himself. That time we spend with him in fellowship, our alone time with our Creator, call it prayer or another religious term, it's that time we sit in our father's lap and just commune with Him. And of course fellowship with His Son, our Lord, who said himself that he would be with us always, even unto the end of this age. Well, is he not with us now, if he is with us always? Was he not seen of Simon, and did he not commune with Paul? Are these not mentioned in the scriptures? So it must be available to commune with Him, if the scriptures say in 1 John 1:3 that our fellowship is with the Father AND His son.. that our joy may be full..
Research is great and all. But would you rather read a book about your earthly dad to learn about him or engage in a real living conversation about him face to face? Why would it be any different than with our Heavenly Father? Or with His Son? Or with one another. Shoot, a book is great and all, but if I can spend time with someone, I would much rather do that. And God certainly desires that as well. That's why He sent His Son to die for us, that we might be reconciled back. Not so we can sit and read about God, but so we can come back to Him and spend time with Him. The bible get's us to know the truth, that we have been redeemed, but then it's up to us to live like we are, instead of living in the distant land we were enslaved off to.
Course as for the reasearch arm of the Way.. Hehe.. Yeah, like we all agree, there isn't any! And anytime the ministry had someone that could do any amount of real research, they were mostly forced to comply with the BOD/T and rarely was anything worth a morsel of truth let out without piling on the ministry rubbish.
Whether you stay or not in the Way Spectrum, I agree with most and you, it's your decision. Because God can work no matter where we are on this earth, just as easily as we can spend time with Him no matter where we are at. It's between you and God, and I say all the best to you.
I don't know if der vey was ever a research ministry either. Perhaps there were people on staff one time who could actually DO research..
but look at Schoenheit's little paper on adultery. Perhaps it was about the most original work produced, and ethically and biblically as honest as anyone in der ministry at the time could produce.
I thought it was the SCRIPTURES which (when studied and researched) may reveal who Jesus is to us BY HIS EXAMPLE.
Isn't that HOW you know about him in the first place?
You seem to suppose that it is not necessary to study about him, but knowing him will aid you in understanding the scriptures.
And that is precisely why I asked if you have found a way to fellowship with him OUTSIDE OF THE SCRIPTURES. As "his bride", perhaps he is more willing to reveal himself to you than to me....I am only "part of his body"! Think on that a while.
HI spectrum, I think you've hit on a very important point amongst the ex-Wayfer community. I'd like to clarify this a little more if you don't mind.
I was in the Way for about 21 years, and had opportunity to meet many people throughout the country. Over the years I was surprised to find that many people that took PFAL took from it that idea that Jesus Christ, "Christ Jesus", was only knowable from the bible, almost as a historical figure. Like "knowing" Thomas Jefferson say, from what's read about him. They fully accepted that they "had Christ in them", but they actually didn't believe that Christ Himself was knowable through a relationship, today.
Before I get too far, is that how you view it? Not necessarily as a product of PFAL teaching but in your current understanding...? Thanks.
HI spectrum, I think you've hit on a very important point amongst the ex-Wayfer community. I'd like to clarify this a little more if you don't mind.
I was in the Way for about 21 years, and had opportunity to meet many people throughout the country. Over the years I was surprised to find that many people that took PFAL took from it that idea that Jesus Christ, "Christ Jesus", was only knowable from the bible, almost as a historical figure. Like "knowing" Thomas Jefferson say, from what's read about him. They fully accepted that they "had Christ in them", but they actually didn't believe that Christ Himself was knowable through a relationship, today.
Before I get too far, is that how you view it? Not necessarily as a product of PFAL teaching but in your current understanding...? Thanks.
As I see it, I remember one time when Paul was on the road to Emmaus, he did hear a voice saying something to the effect that, "I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest." So, of course I believe such things are possible, though I have not personally "heard" from him in person. the scriptures declare that we are members of the body of Christ, and that he is the HEAD. I do believe that is an analogy God is making so we may relate to the fact that we "are all in this together", and that each one should do his part that we function together as ONE. I hope that clarifies it a bit.
As for the rest of you...I do see that this post finally made it back to its ORIGINAL INTENTION, and that is --- that I just wanted to make an observation that RESEARCH of the scriptures is NOT the main-stay of TWI -- and for a long time now, things have become rather stagnant. They claim to be "moving forward", but they are looking BACK.
Seeing just how posts can develop here is an interesting "adventure" to me. We must all be careful in what we say, for we are not here in person, and sometimes things are "lost" without being "face to face".
I am just as guilty, I suppose....but what the heck! It is rather "amusing" at times. Ha! Ha!
Here are a couple of verses which came to mind about all of this:
James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Proverbs 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.
I shall put no more wood on this fire. I believe I made my point, so I will leave it at that, lest it just get way "off topic".
Another verse:
Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.
How can we go off topic when the topic is research making the field we are playing in very big
You talk about Apostel Paul hearing the voice of Christ but you have not talk to Christ
Its not hard you just have to be bold enough to leave fleshly thinking in the dust as you open your heart with a trust of love that you can hear Christ talk to you because Christ is talking to you and you just got to learn to listen
here a big hint
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
out of body is a fleshly impossible the way the Way cults thinks but with God what is possible?
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
even out of body travels are possible
if your out of body you must be in the spirit of Christ
how about tongues of the Old Testament because you have not reply to me
Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
God spoke to this man in a dream but that just the word of God by word of knowledge but we are looking for tongues a unknown language
Genesis 40:2-8 "And Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers. And he put them in ward in the house of the captain of the guard, into the prison, the place where Joseph was bound. And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season in ward. And they dreamed a dream both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison. And Joseph came in unto them in the morning, and looked upon them, and, behold, they were sad. And he asked Pharaoh's officers that were with him in the ward of his lord's house, saying, Wherefore look ye so sadly to day? And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."
the most basic language is pictures as words a language of pictures and if you do not understand the pictures you have a unknown language of unknown pictures as your dream
but if we keep reading we see Joseph gave a interpretation to the dreams of pictures
so we learn that dreams without understanding equare a unknown language or unknown tongue
and when given a interpretation to the dreams we have interpretation of tongues
I did not write the book
And yes this makes VPW look like a big fool but if the shoe fits then he was a fool
VPW just needed something to be the greater things Christ did but he was dead wrong but that another subject within the field of research
why are you talking about strife no one is fighting you
we are just sharing with you a two way debate
here how it works you say something from what you believe
we say something from what we believe
we both read each other words as we listen to each other understanding
I don't know if der vey was ever a research ministry either. Perhaps there were people on staff one time who could actually DO research..
but look at Schoenheit's little paper on adultery. Perhaps it was about the most original work produced, and ethically and biblically as honest as anyone in der ministry at the time could produce.
Now we can discuss the merits of the different theological points adopted by TWI, but the fact of the matter is that each one of those was taken, without attribution, by VPW. You can look at any number of threads in the Doctrinal Forum to discover this for yourself. Use of the intellectual property of another without giving that other attribution is plagerism, pure and simple. Plagerism is a form of theft.
There are others who post here that would be better to detail exactly what was plagerized and from whom it was stolen than I could ever imagine to be. I am certain that they would be happy to again address the issue with you.
The original point of your post:
It is RESEARCH that started TWI, and it is only continued research that should be keeping it alive and functioning. Now, not to bad-mouth anyone, but does it not seem logical that a "Biblical Research and Teaching Ministry" should have a vital and ongoing Research Department as its MAIN FUNCTION?
I rather suspect that if there even still is a research department there, it is way way down on the list of priorities with so much "busywork" to do to at least keep afloat what remains there presently.
When I first came to a fellowship with TWI I was thrilled at the name it had been given. It was direct and honest...The Way Biblical Research and Teaching Ministry, and its main BUILDING was referred to as the BRC (Biblical Research Center).
It seemed to make sense to me from the very beginning, that this is "the true ministry of Jesus Christ", because he said he was "the Way, the Truth, and the Life". Equating this together, the Founder called it simply "The Way". Now,
Biblical Research
is what his ministry did, and in that process was found
The Truth.
And as that Truth (from the research) was
taught
, it brought
Life
.
So, in other words, the very name of the ministry meant
"The Way, the Truth, and the Life"
-- or simply said, the "Ministry of Jesus Christ". That made a lot of sense to me.
I was excited and proud in the 70's at the young age of 24 to be part of a Biblical Research Ministry whose purpose seemed to be to uncover truth which has been hidden for centuries and share that with people, as it was for many a year.
I can sympathize with your sentiments. I think that most of us were excited to be involved with a 'ministry' that had uncovered the truth as it hadn't been known since the first century and we were highly motivated to share it with others...
But we were defrauded. We were lied to. And we bought into it. Hook. Line. Sinker.
As others have stated, TWI was never about Biblical Research. TWI was always a cult of personality...with the leader being a liar, a thief, and a pervert. (Again, if you would like documentation of that, there are plenty of threads on this site that fully document that assertion)
You wish to stay in the mindset that it was a good organization with a good leader? OK, fine. That's your right to do so.
You wish to learn the truth about it? Look around.
There are plenty of folks here who still hold to many of the doctrines and practices taught by that organization but who, at least, now give credit where credit is due. If you wish to be a researcher, then you need to research how you were taught as well as what you were taught. You need to do so honestly as a real workman...
Define what it is you wish to find out (e.g., what is Jesus' nature)
Gather data from multiple appropriate sources...for example, to answer the above, you should look at:
the scriptures (both OT and NT)
what Jesus' contemporaries believed about him
what those who were closer to Jesus' time on earth believe about him (i.e., patristic writings). While those writings are not scripture, they will indicate what the author of the writing believed...(and, since the writings were preserved for up to 2,000 years, what a considerable group of folks believed at the time, as well)
what scholars have concluded over time (with that type of source, you can see if they effectively proved their point or not)
what other scholars say today (you can look at the methodology of the scholar to see if they formed conclusions based on a reasonable, logical, basis)
[*]Form your hypothesis (What you think you should conclude from the above)
[*]Try to disprove your hypothesis...using your data above.
[*]Publish your theory and your proof (for example, on the doctrinal board at gsc) for critical review (trust me, if there are holes in your theory, there are multiple folks who will be happy to help you out here.
But any real researcher gives full credit to the ideas and people who came before him.
Bro/Sis??? That was my advice to you. Whether you take it or leave it is up to you. But when you saw (or did you) the dust trails rising up on the horizon as thousands of people were leaving 20 years ago, did you not approach the One True God and ask HIM what YOU should do?
: This issue comes up with GSC newbies --the 'whenI left TWI it was the perfect right and spiritual thing to do. If you didn't leave when I did, something's wrong with you and your spiritual walk' attitude.
What another individual chose, saw or experienced might just not be the same as your experience, k? So why put someone down because their decision wasn't identical to yours? There are many different experiences here at the cafe.
Okay thanks, spectrum. There's a couple items of clarification I'll offer on your first post, might help.
'88-'89 followed '86, which was when Chris Geer initiated contact with people in the Way, Trustees, and then others with "Passing of the Patriarch" and what he called the fulfillment of a promise he made to VPW to confront the Way (of USA) on it's shortcomings, as described to him by VPW and experienced by Geer himself (he said). By '89 there had been about 2 1/2 years of chaos and for the most part no progress or forward movement towards anything resembling the rehabilitation Geer was supposedly trying to initiate. In '89 Martindale decided he'd had a belly full of the whole thing (slow digestion, I guess) and began to draw lines of allegiance and made a weak effort to restore some order by insisting the Way Corps members still associated get in line. That began a period of a few years where quite a few more left and the ones that stayed "got in line".
Point - that period of '88 and '89 was unproductive in the Way, nothing resembling "research" was done by the Way Nash proper because Geer had pushed an agenda that included "no new research". If you're not familiar with that time frame there's some stuff around here, probably on the front page and threads on the topic. Whatever research had been underway stopped or was surpressed and certainly from 1986 to the early 1990's, it was a dead dog at the Way. What eventually started up again wouldn't resemble anything even close to "research", and was nothing more than a transcript of whatever was rattling around in Martindale's head that year. This accounts for why those years might seem a little weird looking back. The direction of the Way didn't really change following VPW's death in '85, it was pretty much on course.
2nd item of possible interest - from it's earliest days the Way defined itself as "a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ". A member of the Way "freely availed themselves" of the teaching ministry, research and fellowship available.
The name "The Way" directly refers to Jesus Christ and it was often explained "this isn't THE Way, we're teaching about Jesus Christ, who IS The Way".
Keep in mind that while "research", study etc. continued over the years the Way was primarily a "teaching ministry", centered primarily around one teaching ministry, VPW's, where the initial work was done to ulitimately produce PFAL.
Post-PFAL getting a final successful filming in 1967 it became the product, the means of teaching the "reasearch" that VPW had done.
Now, we can evaluate that however we want, but that's the essence of the facts. Some "research" continued to be done, but by a very small group, with some contributions made outside of that. Walter Cummins was the point man on research for many years and a few others got involved over time. But The Way wasn't a "research" machine by any stretch of the imagination. It was a "teaching" ministry with a focus on getting that teaching out via PFAL.
There was always "study" going on, but always based on the fundamentals of PFAL. Generally in local fellowships at the earliest though there was an emphasis on getting together informally and praying, sharing some teaching of something, and hanging out together. That could all come in many different forms, not always a "meeting".
Point - The Way was always a teaching ministry, that was the focus of the Way of New Knoxville. To promote and run PFAL classes, where the teaching happened. There wasn't a great emphasis on research beyond a few people.
Fellowship was always a centerpiece of the Way though, as described pointedly in their definition of the Way - a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Way was a very loosely defined church, attempting to pattern after what people did in the book of Acts. At least for a time. But there was no large scale emphasis on research amongst the members and they certainly were never encouraged to go out and look for "new light". All of that was in PFAL as far as VPW was concerned.
Study yes, to various degrees. But a concordance and a bible do not a researcher make. It's effort well placed but for one's own edification, as it were. What they do at The Way today and have done for many years wouldn't qualify or come close anyway, in my book.
I still think that a group which would bury a work which called adultery sin under a blanket of drama and intrigue.. not a "research" organization.
academically, one might call the paper juvenile, but it was at least honest..
it speaks to me, of the juvenile mindset the organization itself had with regard to honest research.
If the work is original, yet faults the proclivities of the upper ups, we bury it..
If the work is good enough, and flashy enough to draw in more crowds, we steal it..
and they actually appointed loy boy as head of research.. I really think they were at the end of their rope.. he'd already chased off anybody with half a brain.
[*]Publish your theory and your proof (for example, on the doctrinal board at gsc) for critical review (trust me, if there are holes in your theory, there are multiple folks who will be happy to help you out here.
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JeffSjo
I remember being exited 1st and formost with the understanding of the bible. The rest of that stuff you speak of I remember being exited about too.
Thank you for sharing Spectrum49.
That is interesting how you percieve the addition of "fellowship." I wonder if instead of a doctrinal error, if that wasn't about the time you started picking up the bad vibes so to speak.
Maybe when fellowship stopped being fellowship in the best biblical sense is the same time that it became a bothersome addition for you.
At any rate, thank you again for sharing, it certainly brought back some good memories.
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waysider
The Way isn't and never was a "research" ministry, despite the billing it was given by VPW.
Wierwille plagiarized almost everything he presented as having come to him directly from God.
(Right down to the PLAF class and Holy Spirit book.)
For further clarification of that statement, please refer to the "actual errors" and "doctrinal errors" articles as well as many other references that can be found here using the search function.
So then what WAS The Way?
It was a cleverly constructed multi-level-marketing scheme that used The Bible (and us) as a veneer of holiness to entice prospective customers.
Yes, I know that sounds cold.
Wierwille amassed a small personal fortune at the expense of sincere, dedicated followers.
(Real estate, classic cars, vintage motorcycles, a private jet, a motorcoach, etc.)
He lived "rent free" and had his own entourage of people who were actually willing to pay for the "honor" of being his personal servants.
He "allegedly" drugged and raped many, many female followers and then tossed them aside when he was finished with them.
He "allegedly" destroyed those who stood in his way whenever it was possible for him to do so.
No------The Way was never a "research" ministry.
It was a business designed to profit the man behind the curtain, VPW.
IMO
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brideofjc
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spectrum49
THE WORD OF GOD has never been hidden and neither has the TRUTH. The Lord Jesus is the TRUTH and through knowledge of HIM that the Scriptures are fully revealed.
brideofjc:
I am not here to argue. I personally do not like people to tell me what to do, like "getting out of Dodge". I have my reasons for what I do, and I will leave when I'm ready, and not because somebody TOLD ME TO, so stop it!
As to your very critical and biting remarks about my post, I suppose I should ask you if you have some strange and wonderful way of "fellowshipping" with the Lord Jesus Christ in person.
I thought it was the SCRIPTURES which (when studied and researched) may reveal who Jesus is to us BY HIS EXAMPLE.
Isn't that HOW you know about him in the first place?
You seem to suppose that it is not necessary to study about him, but knowing him will aid you in understanding the scriptures.
And that is precisely why I asked if you have found a way to fellowship with him OUTSIDE OF THE SCRIPTURES. As "his bride", perhaps he is more willing to reveal himself to you than to me....I am only "part of his body"! Think on that a while.
And also think on this: A common saying is "Live and learn." Personally, I think that is backwards. It should be "Learn and LIVE!"
spec
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year2027
God first
Beloved spectrum49
God loves you my dear friend
welcome
I do not think brideofjc when brideofjc said "getting out of Dodge" was trying to tell you what to to do as a order but what brideofjc was doing was given you some good advice
Now if you stay around you will see brideofjc is into research as you call it
But as for me research comes last today because I have the "strange and wonderful way of "fellowshipping" with the Lord Jesus Christ in person." the way Apostel Paul did it and many others
Its about a each person personal walk with God and Christ by talking to them
So you like to research the milk of the word or is the word to you the bible
But what is the bible but a book of God's words put together as a whole but in no way whole because to be whole it have to have everything God ever spoke
But let me asked you if you stay in the Way cult WHY? because you seem to see past the lies.
you want some places were the Way blow it let me name a few
1. there was no Gap between Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3
2. Believing is not a law
3. The devil is not a spiritual being
4. you are not born again yet
5. water baptize may not be greatest but that does not take away its value
6. research is just works of the flesh
7. the word of God is still being wrote
8. its wrong to sale the word of God like the Way does
9. tithing is part of the law making it dead
10. tongues are only a small part of the gifts there are others
11. tongues were alive in the Old Testament times
12. the Way is a cult
just to name a few that have been either showed wrong or can be if you just give them time
but stay here and read and fellowship as you learn because the Way will not help you as we will nor will they understand what your feeling as we do
I stay to long in the Way because I wanted try to changed laws on the class because of my research on charging for the class because I saw it wrong so I wrote people like Craig M. and others asking for scripture and verse but here a list of answers I got
1. some things you must take by faith
2. your full of devils
3. your a anti-Christ
4. some one as betwitch you
And the list goes on but no one ever send one scripture back to me and I wrote alot of notes
write your notes to the Way maybe you will get better luck than I did
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Twinky
Spectrum:
Wouldn't you have more respect for a research ministry if it actually DID research and also considered the works of other respected theologians/authors? Allowed those authors credit for what work was used/built on (like JE Stiles)?
The reason we were discouraged from reading other authors' work is because we would find out the sources of the "research" already done by TWI.
But never mind that: Let's consider their view of fellowship. There are many wonderful Christian people that you can meet every day. Can TWI members "fellowship" with them? No way, those Christian people must be possessed.
In his eartly ministry JC didn't demand that people hung around with him all the time. In the post-Pentecost period the early Christians didn't make such a demand, either.
In later years TWI has done all it can to restrict who can fellowship with whom. In the prison that is TWI, the phrase "cell group" takes on a whole new dimension.
How convenient to disregard scriptures like Rom 12:16-18. I leave you to check these for yourself, since you like research.
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Sunesis
Spectrum, one of the things TWI did was leave Christ out of the equation.
Sure, he's mentioned at the end of a prayer, or you learn a bit about him on Easter, etc.
But, the Bible is prophecy. The whole truth of the OT is Christ to Come.
The Gospels - he's here "God with us."
The NT - he's our hope, Revelation reveals him in glory for us to hope for.
We are his body and bride. TWI is wrong doctrinally saying there is a difference between Christ's body and Bride.
Athlete's of the spirit - way off. It is a military analogy, not an "athletic" one.
The Bible is about Christ.
We are to fellowship with Christ.
We are not to worship and elevate "the Word" over and above Christ, as TWI did and continues to do.
Its about Fellowship with Christ and knowing him.
Its wonderful to fellowship with other Christians who know Christ. That's the point of fellowship.
Haven't you ever heard other believers, outside of TWI, talk about their personal relationship with Christ?
Don't you wonder what it is you're missing?
TWI will give you lots of head knowledge, but no knowledge of Christ.
Follow Him, not TWI.
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JeffSjo
I have to agree with Spectrum49 on one point for sure. It's up to him how long he sticks around and fights for the truth.
The Lord is the one who will judge things like:
Is it love,
Was it worth the sacrifice,
Was he/she following a man or was it following the Lord in spite of the painful result.
I understand well intended advise, but it's still a choice and I know that ultimatly I'm not the judge.
When people say that I wasn't following the Lord I know in my heart that they may be right or they may be wrong, but to pronounce judgment is not their place.
I edited for a spelling error.
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brideofjc
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brideofjc
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TrustAndObey
Seems almost like a heated argument in here..
Here's what I think.. Take it or leave it..
Everyone here is right!
There.. Y'all happy now?!
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TrustAndObey
Now on a more specific note, since I know were in the Doctrinal dungeon down here were tempers sometimes can flair, although I am not sure why, since all of us see in part through a dark glass, only some don't care to acknowledge that..
But Spectrum49, you did open yourself up by posting here for others to give there opinion.
I presonally don't care for people to tell me what to do either, but I don't think that was brideofjc's point.
The point that was mentioned I have to say I do agree with which brideofjc, year2027, and Sunesis mention is that The Way left out the most important thing when it comes to following our Lord and Savior. That is the fellowship we are to have with our Heavenly Father AND HIS son.
Sure, fellowship with one another is important also. We need it all. The iron sharpening iron, the 3 fold cord that's not easily broken. No doubt about it. We are part of Christ's body for a purpose, we are called together to fellowship for a great and wonderful purpose. But that's not really where it all begins. Or at least as far as I see in the scriptures.
The first and most important being fellowship with God himself. That time we spend with him in fellowship, our alone time with our Creator, call it prayer or another religious term, it's that time we sit in our father's lap and just commune with Him. And of course fellowship with His Son, our Lord, who said himself that he would be with us always, even unto the end of this age. Well, is he not with us now, if he is with us always? Was he not seen of Simon, and did he not commune with Paul? Are these not mentioned in the scriptures? So it must be available to commune with Him, if the scriptures say in 1 John 1:3 that our fellowship is with the Father AND His son.. that our joy may be full..
Research is great and all. But would you rather read a book about your earthly dad to learn about him or engage in a real living conversation about him face to face? Why would it be any different than with our Heavenly Father? Or with His Son? Or with one another. Shoot, a book is great and all, but if I can spend time with someone, I would much rather do that. And God certainly desires that as well. That's why He sent His Son to die for us, that we might be reconciled back. Not so we can sit and read about God, but so we can come back to Him and spend time with Him. The bible get's us to know the truth, that we have been redeemed, but then it's up to us to live like we are, instead of living in the distant land we were enslaved off to.
Course as for the reasearch arm of the Way.. Hehe.. Yeah, like we all agree, there isn't any! And anytime the ministry had someone that could do any amount of real research, they were mostly forced to comply with the BOD/T and rarely was anything worth a morsel of truth let out without piling on the ministry rubbish.
Whether you stay or not in the Way Spectrum, I agree with most and you, it's your decision. Because God can work no matter where we are on this earth, just as easily as we can spend time with Him no matter where we are at. It's between you and God, and I say all the best to you.
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Ham
I don't know if der vey was ever a research ministry either. Perhaps there were people on staff one time who could actually DO research..
but look at Schoenheit's little paper on adultery. Perhaps it was about the most original work produced, and ethically and biblically as honest as anyone in der ministry at the time could produce.
and what did they do with that little item?
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Ham
and may I add.. it wasn't an accomplishment that could be attributed to an intellectual "giant" either..
It's kinda like.. duh.. anybody with a little common sense, and who just reads the BIBLE once or so has to get it..
the "smart guys" of da then ministry labelled it possessed..
research ministry? I really don't think so.
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socks
HI spectrum, I think you've hit on a very important point amongst the ex-Wayfer community. I'd like to clarify this a little more if you don't mind.
I was in the Way for about 21 years, and had opportunity to meet many people throughout the country. Over the years I was surprised to find that many people that took PFAL took from it that idea that Jesus Christ, "Christ Jesus", was only knowable from the bible, almost as a historical figure. Like "knowing" Thomas Jefferson say, from what's read about him. They fully accepted that they "had Christ in them", but they actually didn't believe that Christ Himself was knowable through a relationship, today.
Before I get too far, is that how you view it? Not necessarily as a product of PFAL teaching but in your current understanding...? Thanks.
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spectrum49
As I see it, I remember one time when Paul was on the road to Emmaus, he did hear a voice saying something to the effect that, "I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest." So, of course I believe such things are possible, though I have not personally "heard" from him in person. the scriptures declare that we are members of the body of Christ, and that he is the HEAD. I do believe that is an analogy God is making so we may relate to the fact that we "are all in this together", and that each one should do his part that we function together as ONE. I hope that clarifies it a bit.
As for the rest of you...I do see that this post finally made it back to its ORIGINAL INTENTION, and that is --- that I just wanted to make an observation that RESEARCH of the scriptures is NOT the main-stay of TWI -- and for a long time now, things have become rather stagnant. They claim to be "moving forward", but they are looking BACK.
Seeing just how posts can develop here is an interesting "adventure" to me. We must all be careful in what we say, for we are not here in person, and sometimes things are "lost" without being "face to face".
I am just as guilty, I suppose....but what the heck! It is rather "amusing" at times. Ha! Ha!
Here are a couple of verses which came to mind about all of this:
James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Proverbs 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.
I shall put no more wood on this fire. I believe I made my point, so I will leave it at that, lest it just get way "off topic".
Another verse:
Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.
PEACE, ALL!
spec
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year2027
God first
Beloved spectrum49
God loves you my dear friend
How can we go off topic when the topic is research making the field we are playing in very big
You talk about Apostel Paul hearing the voice of Christ but you have not talk to Christ
Its not hard you just have to be bold enough to leave fleshly thinking in the dust as you open your heart with a trust of love that you can hear Christ talk to you because Christ is talking to you and you just got to learn to listen
here a big hint
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
out of body is a fleshly impossible the way the Way cults thinks but with God what is possible?
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
even out of body travels are possible
if your out of body you must be in the spirit of Christ
how about tongues of the Old Testament because you have not reply to me
Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
God spoke to this man in a dream but that just the word of God by word of knowledge but we are looking for tongues a unknown language
Genesis 40:2-8 "And Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers. And he put them in ward in the house of the captain of the guard, into the prison, the place where Joseph was bound. And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season in ward. And they dreamed a dream both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison. And Joseph came in unto them in the morning, and looked upon them, and, behold, they were sad. And he asked Pharaoh's officers that were with him in the ward of his lord's house, saying, Wherefore look ye so sadly to day? And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."
the most basic language is pictures as words a language of pictures and if you do not understand the pictures you have a unknown language of unknown pictures as your dream
but if we keep reading we see Joseph gave a interpretation to the dreams of pictures
so we learn that dreams without understanding equare a unknown language or unknown tongue
and when given a interpretation to the dreams we have interpretation of tongues
I did not write the book
And yes this makes VPW look like a big fool but if the shoe fits then he was a fool
VPW just needed something to be the greater things Christ did but he was dead wrong but that another subject within the field of research
why are you talking about strife no one is fighting you
we are just sharing with you a two way debate
here how it works you say something from what you believe
we say something from what we believe
we both read each other words as we listen to each other understanding
then we begin again
and yes with peace and meekness
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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brideofjc
I still have my copy...somewhere...
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markomalley
Spectrum,
TWI was a fraud.
Period.
Now we can discuss the merits of the different theological points adopted by TWI, but the fact of the matter is that each one of those was taken, without attribution, by VPW. You can look at any number of threads in the Doctrinal Forum to discover this for yourself. Use of the intellectual property of another without giving that other attribution is plagerism, pure and simple. Plagerism is a form of theft.
There are others who post here that would be better to detail exactly what was plagerized and from whom it was stolen than I could ever imagine to be. I am certain that they would be happy to again address the issue with you.
The original point of your post:
I can sympathize with your sentiments. I think that most of us were excited to be involved with a 'ministry' that had uncovered the truth as it hadn't been known since the first century and we were highly motivated to share it with others...
But we were defrauded. We were lied to. And we bought into it. Hook. Line. Sinker.
As others have stated, TWI was never about Biblical Research. TWI was always a cult of personality...with the leader being a liar, a thief, and a pervert. (Again, if you would like documentation of that, there are plenty of threads on this site that fully document that assertion)
You wish to stay in the mindset that it was a good organization with a good leader? OK, fine. That's your right to do so.
You wish to learn the truth about it? Look around.
There are plenty of folks here who still hold to many of the doctrines and practices taught by that organization but who, at least, now give credit where credit is due. If you wish to be a researcher, then you need to research how you were taught as well as what you were taught. You need to do so honestly as a real workman...
[*]Form your hypothesis (What you think you should conclude from the above)
[*]Try to disprove your hypothesis...using your data above.
[*]Publish your theory and your proof (for example, on the doctrinal board at gsc) for critical review (trust me, if there are holes in your theory, there are multiple folks who will be happy to help you out here.
But any real researcher gives full credit to the ideas and people who came before him.
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Bramble
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socks
Okay thanks, spectrum. There's a couple items of clarification I'll offer on your first post, might help.
'88-'89 followed '86, which was when Chris Geer initiated contact with people in the Way, Trustees, and then others with "Passing of the Patriarch" and what he called the fulfillment of a promise he made to VPW to confront the Way (of USA) on it's shortcomings, as described to him by VPW and experienced by Geer himself (he said). By '89 there had been about 2 1/2 years of chaos and for the most part no progress or forward movement towards anything resembling the rehabilitation Geer was supposedly trying to initiate. In '89 Martindale decided he'd had a belly full of the whole thing (slow digestion, I guess) and began to draw lines of allegiance and made a weak effort to restore some order by insisting the Way Corps members still associated get in line. That began a period of a few years where quite a few more left and the ones that stayed "got in line".
Point - that period of '88 and '89 was unproductive in the Way, nothing resembling "research" was done by the Way Nash proper because Geer had pushed an agenda that included "no new research". If you're not familiar with that time frame there's some stuff around here, probably on the front page and threads on the topic. Whatever research had been underway stopped or was surpressed and certainly from 1986 to the early 1990's, it was a dead dog at the Way. What eventually started up again wouldn't resemble anything even close to "research", and was nothing more than a transcript of whatever was rattling around in Martindale's head that year. This accounts for why those years might seem a little weird looking back. The direction of the Way didn't really change following VPW's death in '85, it was pretty much on course.
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socks
2nd item of possible interest - from it's earliest days the Way defined itself as "a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ". A member of the Way "freely availed themselves" of the teaching ministry, research and fellowship available.
The name "The Way" directly refers to Jesus Christ and it was often explained "this isn't THE Way, we're teaching about Jesus Christ, who IS The Way".
Keep in mind that while "research", study etc. continued over the years the Way was primarily a "teaching ministry", centered primarily around one teaching ministry, VPW's, where the initial work was done to ulitimately produce PFAL.
Post-PFAL getting a final successful filming in 1967 it became the product, the means of teaching the "reasearch" that VPW had done.
Now, we can evaluate that however we want, but that's the essence of the facts. Some "research" continued to be done, but by a very small group, with some contributions made outside of that. Walter Cummins was the point man on research for many years and a few others got involved over time. But The Way wasn't a "research" machine by any stretch of the imagination. It was a "teaching" ministry with a focus on getting that teaching out via PFAL.
There was always "study" going on, but always based on the fundamentals of PFAL. Generally in local fellowships at the earliest though there was an emphasis on getting together informally and praying, sharing some teaching of something, and hanging out together. That could all come in many different forms, not always a "meeting".
Point - The Way was always a teaching ministry, that was the focus of the Way of New Knoxville. To promote and run PFAL classes, where the teaching happened. There wasn't a great emphasis on research beyond a few people.
Fellowship was always a centerpiece of the Way though, as described pointedly in their definition of the Way - a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Way was a very loosely defined church, attempting to pattern after what people did in the book of Acts. At least for a time. But there was no large scale emphasis on research amongst the members and they certainly were never encouraged to go out and look for "new light". All of that was in PFAL as far as VPW was concerned.
Study yes, to various degrees. But a concordance and a bible do not a researcher make. It's effort well placed but for one's own edification, as it were. What they do at The Way today and have done for many years wouldn't qualify or come close anyway, in my book.
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Ham
I still think that a group which would bury a work which called adultery sin under a blanket of drama and intrigue.. not a "research" organization.
academically, one might call the paper juvenile, but it was at least honest..
it speaks to me, of the juvenile mindset the organization itself had with regard to honest research.
If the work is original, yet faults the proclivities of the upper ups, we bury it..
If the work is good enough, and flashy enough to draw in more crowds, we steal it..
and they actually appointed loy boy as head of research.. I really think they were at the end of their rope.. he'd already chased off anybody with half a brain.
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brideofjc
[*]Publish your theory and your proof (for example, on the doctrinal board at gsc) for critical review (trust me, if there are holes in your theory, there are multiple folks who will be happy to help you out here.
You're far too nice, Mark Omalley
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