Evolution of a Cult

[skyrider]

Now, in 2008............is twi STILL considered a cult?

I guess what intrigues me is.......since Waydale exposed twi's sordid laundry for all to see, complete with document after document and first-hand accounts of present abuse....and then, Greasespot has followed its successor for ANOTHER 7 YEARS..... has twi back-peddled to an average high-demand religious organization?

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Definition of a cult....this information is found on the HTML Document section (written by Ex-Twi)

The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines a cult as "a system of religious worship; devotion, homage to person or thing." Nowadays, in the public mind, the word "cult" is more likely to be associated with brainwashing manipulation of followers, public scandals over leaders' sex lives, murder and mass suicide, rather than religious worship.

One of the difficulties of defining a religious cult is that it is an organization in a condition of gradual change. A religious cult may be encountered in its early, middle or late stages of evolution [bold-faced for emphasis].

At its beginning the cult consists of a small group of people focused around a benign leader to whom individuals are attracted. At its end, it can become a manipulative, exploitative, multi-national organization. What most people mean when they speak of a cult, is a New Religious Group (NRG) which has acquired the characteristics of a mid-late stage evolution.

It is possible, by using an evolutionary line, to identify at which point the group you are in or are considering joining, has evolved to and how it might be expected to develop.

There are approximately 40 characteristics of cult life. However, in identifying a NRG which has evolved into a dangerous cult, it is really only necessary to observe the lifestyle of the leader and the attitude of members to the leader, to make a diagnosis.

By the time a NRG has evolved to its mid-late stage, the leader is authoritarian, declaring herself or himself to be divine (added by Ex Twi) or having a special relationship with God and is considered to be so by many of the members.

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As far as I know about present-day twi......no one REALLY believes that Rosalie is "the authority, speaking for God Almighty." In fact, today's twi doesn't have a front-runner charismatic spokesperson, does it?

BUT........there is still this strict adherence to PFAL.

Wierwille died of cancer and is long gone. Martindale was ousted and sent packing to Toledo. And now......Rosalie is trying to stoke the fires with man-dated pfal resurgence.

Since Rosalie took the helm.....a couple of thousand have exited, corps enrollment is pathetically low, camp gunnison is being used for family camps, and their way disciple program sounds like its lost steam and momentum. All in all, just sounds like rosalie is a behind-the-scenes planner and guarding twi's assets.

In fact, their name.....The Way International.....is very misleading. Heck, they're hardly "national"......how many states don't even have a Limb presence? Informing their followers to stay off the internet. Expecting the 2 X 2 when grocery shopping.......

Just seems to me today's twi is kinda AMISH-ISH.

[JeffSjo]

Hi Skyrider,

That's a lot of information and I'm thankful for the post.

The small splinter group that I come from since TWI has a lot of those characteristics.

Seating when dining together is organized carefully according to kingdom heirarchy.

Never mind that without love we're nothing.

The leader allows the followers to refer to him as "The Word in the Flesh."

The leader was above reproof.

No matter how twisted his actions are, any legitimate reproof is viewed as a personal attack.

Any legitimate reproof from anyone else was viewed as done by "another man." Implying unfaithfullness in the one who listened)

Peoples live's being destroyed by leadership was used to build fear in the rest.

All Biblical integrity was tossed out the window in favor of the leaders opinion.

FOR ALL THAT, I DON'T LIKE TO USE THE TERM CULT AND I'M NOT CHANGING MY MIND. But I'm not going to dog people over their choice of words either. Arguing about terminology would be making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[excathedra]

The leader allows the followers to refer to him as "The Word in the Flesh."

:o

[coolchef]

sorry jeff

a CULT is a CULT is a CULT .

i was in one and got out thank GOD!

[potato]

The leader allows the followers to refer to him as "The Word in the Flesh."

yeah that made my jaw drop too... but, how far away from this was lcm when he said he was the man of god for our daytimeandhour? meaning there was no other and he was the lifeline to god's truth... he might as well have said he was the word incarnate.

yes, a cult is a cult is a cult. where can God live in cultish thinking? there's precious little room for him.

[potato]

(snippity snip snip)

As far as I know about present-day twi......no one REALLY believes that Rosalie is "the authority, speaking for God Almighty." In fact, today's twi doesn't have a front-runner charismatic spokesperson, does it?

BUT........there is still this strict adherence to PFAL.

Wierwille died of cancer and is long gone. Martindale was ousted and sent packing to Toledo. And now......Rosalie is trying to stoke the fires with man-dated pfal resurgence.

Since Rosalie took the helm.....a couple of thousand have exited, corps enrollment is pathetically low, camp gunnison is being used for family camps, and their way disciple program sounds like its lost steam and momentum. All in all, just sounds like rosalie is a behind-the-scenes planner and guarding twi's assets.

(and snip)

Rosalie is an administrator. I never got the impression that anyone thought she was the MOGFOT. never got the impression she was trying to stoke any fire. teachings when I left were the most watered-down simplistic collateral subjects and way mag article distillations... no research, no thought. in fellowships, we were actively discouraged from thinking, from researching, from wanting to know anything but what was being taught on sundays and in the mags because, you know, that was the word God wanted us to know.... except it had moved beyond just one man's ego trip to a watered down version of long-gone mogfot ego.

[JeffSjo]

Dear Excathedra and Potato,

Not only did he allow people to call him "the Word in the flesh" but as far as I know I was the last one willing to stand up to his B.S. so I have every reason to believe it can only be worse now.

He is 14th Corps and now he believes that he's the judge of everything leftover from TWI. I can't count the times he's lead people into believing that it all will or should belong to him.

The one thing that I can say for sure is that the manner in which he ruined my life proves that he can be very wicked and destructive.

Dear coolchef and potato,

This is why I don't like the "C" word. In the eighties TWI was called a cult by many religious people and it's primary effect on the street was to discourage reasonable folks from considering very real doctrinal issues.

As soon as I got into the word I went out and bought a copy of "The Kingdom of the Cults" and did my best to reconcile what they said with what I saw. I didn't see the bad things going on deep inside the ministry, but I did see good people holding on to controversial doctrine and get labled a "cult" for their trouble. That's why I will never use that word. It was and always will be primarily a slanderous term to me. But I'm not going to dog any of you about it either.

The effort to hold on to the good doctrine in spite of the bad things going on is painful to me. But I will do my best to do both.

History is full of God doing great things for people only to have them sin grievously. Not just in the pages of the bible but in church history and even current events. The sin does not change what God was trying to do. You may not agree with me, but it's where I stand. God help me, I can do nothing else.

I will not disparage the experiences of the folks who were deeply hurt either.

[cheranne]

Dear Excathedra and Potato,

Not only did he allow people to call him "the Word in the flesh" but as far as I know I was the last one willing to stand up to his B.S. so I have every reason to believe it can only be worse now.

He is 14th Corps and now he believes that he's the judge of everything leftover from TWI. I can't count the times he's lead people into believing that it all will or should belong to him.

The one thing that I can say for sure is that the manner in which he ruined my life proves that he can be very wicked and destructive.

Dear coolchef and potato,

This is why I don't like the "C" word. In the eighties TWI was called a cult by many religious people and it's primary effect on the street was to discourage reasonable folks from considering very real doctrinal issues.

As soon as I got into the word I went out and bought a copy of "The Kingdom of the Cults" and did my best to reconcile what they said with what I saw. I didn't see the bad things going on deep inside the ministry, but I did see good people holding on to controversial doctrine and get labled a "cult" for their trouble. That's why I will never use that word. It was and always will be primarily a slanderous term to me. But I'm not going to dog any of you about it either.

The effort to hold on to the good doctrine in spite of the bad things going on is painful to me. But I will do my best to do both.

History is full of God doing great things for people only to have them sin grievously. Not just in the pages of the bible but in church history and even current events. The sin does not change what God was trying to do. You may not agree with me, but it's where I stand. God help me, I can do nothing else.

I will not disparage the experiences of the folks who were deeply hurt either.

I hear it called an alternative religon now,in walter martins book of cults it is still a cult,how is it in YOUR mind? to other people it is differant things,it is hard to say the word cult at first.

[mstar1]

The effort to hold on to the good doctrine in spite of the bad things going on ....

You dont see a correlation between the doctrine and the subsequent bad things?

This is an honest question

To me (and to many others here over the years) they are directly related, as sure as gas and matches will lead to fire

[JeffSjo]

Hi OklahomaCityWOW78,

This is what it is in my mind very simply:

IT IS A GOOD WORK THAT'S GONE TERRIBLY WRONG.

Hi mstar1,

I suppose that depends on the specific doctrine in question. For instance if it's the twisted doctrine that allows leadership to"lord it over the Lord's inheritance" it is directly related.

If it's simply pointing out that nowhere in the bible is there a specific commandment to believe in the trinity, so I'm not. Then I don't consider the doctrine and the shipwreck directly related, even if others do.

[cheranne]

Hi OklahomaCityWOW78,

This is what it is in my mind very simply:

IT IS A GOOD WORK THAT'S GONE TERRIBLY WRONG. okay.

Hi mstar1,

I suppose that depends on the specific doctrine in question. For instance if it's the twisted doctrine that allows leadership to"lord it over the Lord's inheritance" it is directly related.

If it's simply pointing out that nowhere in the bible is there a specific commandment to believe in the trinity, so I'm not. Then I don't consider the doctrine and the shipwreck directly related, even if others do.

[/qui

[rascal]

I don`t think that you can pick and chose doctrines as a measuring stick for spiritual wholesomness..... If you read galatians 5. It will tell you EXACTLY what men whom exhibit the behavior of vpw are.

It doesn`t say that it was a good work that has gone bad....It says that any who do what he did are *men of the flesh* and have NO inheritance in the kingdom of God.

It has another entire catagory of the behaviors of men of the spirit... those would be the ONLY people Iwould trust to teach me of spiritual matters.

Wierwille and Martindale are notin this catagory...there for everything that they taught is to be suspect.

Oh and btw, I am finally feeling much better thank you for asking earlier this week, Jeff.

[cheranne]

What do you think it is in YOUR mind? I met a lot a well meaning nice people that like me wasted alot of time trying to sell vpw EMPIRE ,A LOT OF HEARTHACHE AND I WISH THIS ON NO ONE ELSE EVER AGAIN!

[JeffSjo]

Hi Rascal,

I'm glad that you're feeling better now. I'll have to consider the rest though?! That's all I can tell you right now.

[rascal]

Good nuff Jeff. Thanks!

I guess that I just feel like these guys were masqueraders...decievers of people whom were hungry to know God.

They wounded and destroyed innocents. I guess that I just have a hard time giving them ANY credit when I think of what they used the scriptures to do to my brothers and sisters.

[JeffSjo]

Hi Rascal,

It seems to me that this might be a better thread to talk about the things that I want to discuss with you.

Whether or not a man or woman has the spirit of God is a completely different question than do they walk in it.

I was taught that a person with the spirit can commit the same sins as one without the spirit.

[polar bear]

Back to our regularly scheduled program. The Evolution of a cult.

Perhaps Rosie is not the same as VP of LOY. But the fact stands that she supports all of their doctrines and teaching. She was also there when they did all their deeds and said nothing. As far as I'm concerned it's just as bad or worse. Ei-more subtle now. There is nothing new in the Way.

[cheranne]

Back to our regularly scheduled program. The Evolution of a cult.

Perhaps Rosie is not the same as VP of LOY. But the fact stands that she supports all of their doctrines and teaching. She was also there when they did all their deeds and said nothing. As far as I'm concerned it's just as bad or worse. Ei-more subtle now. There is nothing new in the Way.

their should be WARNING LABELS on all products of THE WAY INTERNATIONAL!!