Who comes to the Cafe?

[WordWolf]

8 hours ago, CLOSE CALL said:

Thank You T-Bone.

That cup hit the spot.

Never was a WOW myself but was a victim in 88 and left in the corn at the ROC of 89.

Ran into GSC by just wondering if TWI was still around.

Very interesting reading here, questions answered that I could not get answers to then (It doesn't Edify ya know)

Took the all important Class which really left me with more questions ( they didn't seem to like that)

May post in a more appropriate thread sometime about that old adventure.

If you attended ROA 89, I'd love to chat about that. That was an experience-and-a-half.  If you're ok with it, either a separate thread (if you're ok with discussing it publickly) or a private message would work (if you prefer more privacy.)   AFAIK, almost nobody at the GSC was there for that-me and Raf and that's about it.

[T-Bone]

10 hours ago, CLOSE CALL said:

Thank You T-Bone.

That cup hit the spot.

Never was a WOW myself but was a victim in 88 and left in the corn at the ROC of 89.

Ran into GSC by just wondering if TWI was still around.

Very interesting reading here, questions answered that I could not get answers to then (It doesn't Edify ya know)

Took the all important Class which really left me with more questions ( they didn't seem to like that)

May post in a more appropriate thread sometime about that old adventure.

sorry to hear about you being a victim but i'm glad you left in '89

i was a dumb facilitator for TWI - at the time of my involvement i was not aware of the abuse and exploitation at the various levels by those who loved the power they had; i am truly sorry for the fact that i supported and endorsed TWI...back then - what mattered was what classes / programs you had, what you did for the ministry, blah blah blah.

Grease Spot is a whole lot different - what matters here is that you be yourself and exercise your right to freely think what you want....and folks care for you just because you're another human being.

Word Wolf has some good advice - share your experience....maybe start a thread...if that's too intimidating try private message to someone....getting this stuff off your chest does a world of good...

 

[CLOSE CALL]

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 8:24 PM, WordWolf said:

If you attended ROA 89, I'd love to chat about that. That was an experience-and-a-half.  If you're ok with it, either a separate thread (if you're ok with discussing it publickly) or a private message would work (if you prefer more privacy.)   AFAIK, almost nobody at the GSC was there for that-me and Raf and that's about it.

 

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 10:09 PM, T-Bone said:

sorry to hear about you being a victim but i'm glad you left in '89

i was a dumb facilitator for TWI - at the time of my involvement i was not aware of the abuse and exploitation at the various levels by those who loved the power they had; i am truly sorry for the fact that i supported and endorsed TWI...back then - what mattered was what classes / programs you had, what you did for the ministry, blah blah blah.

Grease Spot is a whole lot different - what matters here is that you be yourself and exercise your right to freely think what you want....and folks care for you just because you're another human being.

Word Wolf has some good advice - share your experience....maybe start a thread...if that's too intimidating try private message to someone....getting this stuff off your chest does a world of good...

 

 

Hello WordWolf, been reading a lot of your Posts here and been enlightened. Believe me Fella's I haven't been destroyed the last 27/28 years over TWI, in fact I'm doing well.

But when one thinks back on some of the dumb things that one does in life this one rates.

Did any of you know or were in Panama City FL at that time span?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bapsy]

I left twi because of the leadership behavior and somehow I felt being forced to something that I wasn't comfortable with it and so many other things. Now that I left seems like struggling to find where to go from here or which church to fit in. But for now i prefer to continue my biblical studies at home until i find one. There are many doctrines out there and confusing still ( Trinity vs Unitarian), so what is what after twi?

[outandabout]

On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 3:33 AM, Seth R. said:

Even though this poll is 8 years old I didn't see it until today. Not surprising really, since I didn't even log in for 2 years and only visit once every three months or so when I can sleep because I'm having TWI flashbacks.

I wasn't officially kicked out, my branch coordinator just told me not to bother coming back. LOL talk about passive aggressive.

So should I have another chocolate milk and try to get some sleep or make a cup of coffee?

Seth

That reminds me - I was in MS as a Corps Grad and asked my branch leader if I could go to my parents' to visit.  (WOW that's weird too! Having to get permission to go home) Anyway he said "Why don't you just stay there".   He wasn't happy with my performance.  I'm really sorry I didn't take him up on that.

[Rocky]

9 hours ago, Bapsy said:

I left twi because of the leadership behavior and somehow I felt being forced to something that I wasn't comfortable with it and so many other things. Now that I left seems like struggling to find where to go from here or which church to fit in. But for now i prefer to continue my biblical studies at home until i find one. There are many doctrines out there and confusing still ( Trinity vs Unitarian), so what is what after twi?

Hi Bapsy,
You're not likely to find a church or fellowship where the TWI interpretation of the bible will fit in. You might try a twi spin off or two, but even those are likely to feel weird.

When belonging to a group where you can feel like you fit in becomes important to you, more than likely you'll have to decide which things you now believe that you're willing to overlook or change your beliefs. It can help if you find someone in a Christian church that has known and helped people who have left twi. About a decade after leaving, I tried going to a church for a couple of years. One of the associate pastors had known someone in my situation before. We became good friends. It was helpful to me.

But eventually (and this friend moved away to take a senior pastor position in another state) I lost interest in churches and the bible altogether. I found other people with whom to feel like I belonged.

[Bapsy]

On 10/5/2016 at 10:36 PM, Rocky said:

Hi Bapsy,
You're not likely to find a church or fellowship where the TWI interpretation of the bible will fit in. You might try a twi spin off or two, but even those are likely to feel weird.

When belonging to a group where you can feel like you fit in becomes important to you, more than likely you'll have to decide which things you now believe that you're willing to overlook or change your beliefs. It can help if you find someone in a Christian church that has known and helped people who have left twi. About a decade after leaving, I tried going to a church for a couple of years. One of the associate pastors had known someone in my situation before. We became good friends. It was helpful to me.

But eventually (and this friend moved away to take a senior pastor position in another state) I lost interest in churches and the bible altogether. I found other people with whom to feel like I belonged.

Hi Rocky,

That's very true and thanks for sharing this info with me because that's what i'm going through right now,that's weird hmm!.  You know, sometimes I feel losing interest in churches as well, but not in bible a i continue read over and over to find answers and overlooking the beliefs in the light of the word. Also what's worrying me is the kids, if i don't find any church to fit in, what will be the consequences?

Again thanks for your comments and for sure try to find someone in a Christian church to help me. Hey, what you think of JW? Can fit in there?

[Rocky]

4 hours ago, Bapsy said:

Hi Rocky,

Again thanks for your comments and for sure try to find someone in a Christian church to help me. Hey, what you think of JW? Can fit in there?

JWs are cultish too. I know I wouldn't fit in with them.

[waysider]

5 hours ago, Bapsy said:

Also what's worrying me is the kids, if i don't find any church to fit in, what will be the consequences?

Again thanks for your comments and for sure try to find someone in a Christian church to help me. Hey, what you think of JW? Can fit in there?

You don't need church, or even religion, to have a strong moral compass.

 

JW's? You might want to PM Raf on that one.

[krys]

sorry - - double post

 

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by krys

[krys]

Teach them yourself. What would you do if there was no school you'd let your kids attend??? allow them to be illiterate?

[T-Bone]

Hi Bapsy,

Rocky, Waysider, and Krys have some good ideas.

something I wondered about after I left TWI….it goes along the lines of learned helplessness and/or conditioning…I’m not going to elaborate on that here – you can check out the links below for that…I do like this one brief definition in an online dictionary (2^nd link below) which states:

learned helplessness in Medicine

learned helplessness n.
A laboratory model of depression in which exposure to a series of unforeseen adverse situations gives rise to a sense of helplessness or an inability to cope with or devise ways to escape such situations, even when escape is possible.

Britannica on learned helplessness

online dictionary - learned helplessness

Britannica on conditioning

VPW would say on occasion that the only choice you have outside of the way ministry is oblivion. Well, who wants that? If you’re not in the (imaginary) protective bubble of TWI’s belief system there’s no telling what could happen to you out there in the world ! So stay inside where it’s safe!

That’s kind of a scary way to captivate people…but usually it’s something more positive ....When folks first get involved with TWI they get the idea they’ll learn about these keys they can apply in life to become a success at whatever they’re into. As time goes on they’ll learn that they must stay involved with TWI in an ever-increasing manner – in order to truly master those keys – in other words, you can’t do it alone - you NEED TWI !

Think pyramid scheme – your spiritual growth actually depends on how much you stay involved… and more importantly how much you financially support TWI….(there’s no need to concern yourself with the fact that  they do not actually provide products or services of any real value – but they’ll gladly take your money anyway!)

 == == == ==

 

I don’t want to tell you what to do or recommend a certain course of action – but you may want to think about why you feel such a need to get involved with a church. I’m not saying you shouldn’t get involved with a church…but maybe take stock of your life – include your family as well….life’s journey is a very personal and unique matter….while in TWI many of us got so used to following people that we assumed were so much more spiritually mature than us; our “brain muscles” that we used to think for ourselves got atrophied.

If you feel so inspired – pray – do you think God could help you design a curriculum just for you – think about topics you’d like to learn more about – look on Amazon or Christian Book Distributors (www.christianbook.com) – or hit the Library and see if anything interests you.

It took me a long time to realize this – long after I left TWI I might add – that just being a good husband and good dad is a deeply spiritual and noble endeavor.

When I was in it - besides having my priorities following TWI’s agenda I was also a workaholic – so when I left the Way I still had to re-evaluate what was important to me when it came to my career as well as spiritual matters….I humbly admit it took a long time for me to figure out that my wife and kids are more important to me than anything else - - maybe that sounds hokey and maybe that means that’s all I am capable of handling in life – but that’s ok by me.  

 

[Bapsy]

Hi gents,

I like your comments which somehow is helping me to be more confident with my decision and never regret for leaving vpw empire.

But what I learned is that most of former member never attended any other church because he or she won't fit in and that's what i'm experiencing and thanks you guys for sharing your experience with me which is good and helping a lot. See, i come to realize that the question is " after leaving TWI, what is the next step? where to fit in? anyways probably you guys have answered already these question.

T-Bone : I left TWI and I still have VPW's books with me, so what you guys advise on that. Do you still keep them and refer to them whenever you want?

 

[waysider]

"What's next?"

Enjoy life. do something you like to do . Fish, watch movies, skydive, go to concerts. Whatever floats your boat.

51 minutes ago, Bapsy said:

Do you still keep them and refer to them whenever you want?

I have most of mine. I refer to them when discussing various points of contention here on GSC. They've proved to be very useful....but not in the way VPW intended them to be used. 

[Belle]

Welcome to the Café! Sounds like you were able to get away unscathed.  That's great!  I wish I had been that smart.

[Twinky]

5 hours ago, Bapsy said:

I still have VPW's books with me, so what you guys advise on that. Do you still keep them and refer to them whenever you want?

I tore mine up and put them in the woodburner, I think.  Didn't want to give them away in case they got someone else interested in the content and they contacted TWI and ended up getting involved.  i know I burned my Corps notes and practically everything else.  Took a long time.

[outandabout]

My corps note are gone too.  And the collaterals.  I still have JC Our Promised Seed and JC our Passover.  Those are pretty good books.  They just happen to be mostly written by the research team though VPW got the credit.

[T-Bone]

On 10/18/2016 at 7:38 AM, Bapsy said:

Hi gents,

I like your comments which somehow is helping me to be more confident with my decision and never regret for leaving vpw empire.

But what I learned is that most of former member never attended any other church because he or she won't fit in and that's what i'm experiencing and thanks you guys for sharing your experience with me which is good and helping a lot. See, i come to realize that the question is " after leaving TWI, what is the next step? where to fit in? anyways probably you guys have answered already these question.

T-Bone : I left TWI and I still have VPW's books with me, so what you guys advise on that. Do you still keep them and refer to them whenever you want?

 

I’ll get to your question in a minute - just wanted to say a few words about what you may be experiencing now.

What Waysider said seems to be an oft repeated refrain to Grease Spot newcomers - “enjoy life”.

Leaving TWI is like running away from an oppressive and/or abusive home. Depending on your length of involvement, experiences, etc. it may take a while adjusting to the real world (as I said in previous post - getting those atrophied “brain muscles” moving again).

“Where to fit in?” is a tough question – especially for ex-TWI folks. Because of your experience you obviously fit in here at Grease Spot. But that’s just one aspect of your life – when you feel the need to work those things out; as you grow in your new life of freedom I’m sure you’ll discover or gravitate to other settings that meet your social needs…be it church, new friends, hobbies, etc.

If life’s journey is like a road trip – then for much of my 12 year involvement with TWI – I let them do most of the steering while I was encouraged to step on the accelerator as hard as I could. After leaving - it was a little scary…and a little exciting to finally be truly on our own as adults (my wife Tonto and I) – mapping out our own road trip…taking turns steering and going at our own pace. Things like building up savings, developing careers and buying a home were big priorities in the recuperative years after we left.

== == == ==

 

I still have all of VPW’s books – and like Waysider I find myself referring to them on Grease Spot when I want to reveal some aspect of VPW’s scripture twisting “skills”…. What you do with your books is up to you; some folks go thru with a critical eye to weed out the bad from the good – that seems like too much work to me.

in my opinion if there’s anything valuable in them it was something he stole from others anyway – and speaking of his flagrant plagiarism I figure why not cut out the middleman (VPW) and go straight to the source (the authors VPW stole from) – and in that regard I like some of E.W. Bullinger’s works How to Enjoy the Bible, The Companion Bible, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible and his Commentary on Revelation…and let me just say since I left TWI - with my critical thinking process under constant development – I don’t agree with everything Bullinger said or that I’ve come across in other favorite authors. Ah yes – the freedom to think and choose! It's a wonderful thing.

[waysider]

"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different." - Kurt Vonnegut

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, waysider said:

"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different." - Kurt Vonnegut

Coincidentally Kurt Vonnegut is one of my favorite authors and I happen to agree with him on that!

[Bapsy]

On 10/19/2016 at 3:40 PM, T-Bone said:

in my opinion if there’s anything valuable in them it was something he stole from others anyway – and speaking of his flagrant plagiarism I figure why not cut out the middleman (VPW) and go straight to the source (the authors VPW stole from) – and in that regard I like some of E.W. Bullinger’s works How to Enjoy the Bible, The Companion Bible, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible and his Commentary on Revelation…and let me just say since I left TWI - with my critical thinking process under constant development – I don’t agree with everything Bullinger said or that I’ve come across in other favorite authors. Ah yes – the freedom to think and choose! It's a wonderful thing.

I like your last words in here, the freedom to think and choose also adding the agree to disagree and examine careful the teaching. While on TWI i didn't with everything they taught over there and I end up arguing with leaders and they reinforced to read only VPW's books and nothing else! Seems like slavery and mind control.

Yes, I agree 100% with you on that and likewise my critical thinking process under constant development and is dynamic.

[chockfull]

On 10/5/2016 at 5:32 AM, Bapsy said:

I left twi because of the leadership behavior and somehow I felt being forced to something that I wasn't comfortable with it and so many other things. Now that I left seems like struggling to find where to go from here or which church to fit in. But for now i prefer to continue my biblical studies at home until i find one. There are many doctrines out there and confusing still ( Trinity vs Unitarian), so what is what after twi?

What is after TWI is wide open actually.  It's tremendous freedom.  But it is daunting to face, isn't it?  Some leave Christianity all together, others attend mainstream churches, still others assemble small fellowships.  Some start or join splinter groups with most of the doctrine intact, but more loving they say.  

From my perspective, 2 things didn't change for me after leaving TWI - 1) God and 2) Me and my perspective towards God

I have continued to function in my community, running across and fellowshipping with many different brands of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.  and learning to appreciate all of the above without the same elitist prejudicial attitude that I had being part of "God's royal exclusive household" in the Way, which in all actuality was a learned type of Westboro Baptist attitude of hate.  I have attended several churches and still do at times and found one that my family is most comfortable with to attend regularly.  We have friends there and have participated in a small groups and small serving opportunities like helping a local food truck feed the poor.  

I had this huge wall in my mind over the trinity at first.  But people don't really teach a lot on the trinity, and even when it comes up in conversation it's more about talking about God and Jesus and Jesus' authority than it is anything else.  Can I say to Jesus like Thomas "my Lord and God?"  Sure I can especially in the eastern oriental sense.  In other words I can sort out my own doctrine and it isn't a big deal, and I don't need to get in knock down drag out fights over it.   Especially when you are supposed to know Christians by their love, not their mental acrobatics in showing you the points where Jesus is a different personality than God in a combative fashion.  I even went to an old church I attended in my youth where they did the more Catholic doxology and Apostles Creed.  It didn't bother me - I was more interested in the closeness and love of the group than what protocol their services followed.  Interestingly enough after going back after years I saw that church had stayed true to its roots - its roots were in service to the community.  They STILL do this - all sorts of different groups meet there freely and they have an elementary school now too.   To me this stood out in  stark contrast to TWI, who does absolutely nothing for communities other than spewing elitist indoctrination at them.  

I told a few people in a close small group about my TWI experiences, so some of the church body I fellowship with is aware.  But I don't generally offer up a lot of information about it to casual acquaintances.  In general, I feel if you act with a social congruence, mainstream Christianity can be a blessing and an added support.  

Oh and there is the added benefit of your life not being under the thumb of false apostles and prophets.  You can't really say enough about that benefit.

But from my experiences post TWI with mainstream Christianity, it's OK to be afraid, it's OK to be damaged, it's OK to struggle to fit in.  I remember walking up to the pastor after a message and telling him "I never thought I'd go to a church again, but this one is all right".  I think a key here is to be authentic and not elitist.  Figure out what you can share with another Christian that is authentic but not going into all of the weird and gory details of the twisted TWI experience.

I would also offer up a suggestion that doctrine although important is less important than connection.  You want to find a church or a group of people where you can feel free to connect on a real level, not just superficial.   I mean move towards where God is leading you to love and healing.  

I mean look where TWI doctrine has led them even now, with TWI's current theme focusing on basically mental gymnastics to implement "believing" which is a verb which will overcome the world, just not the world in which you can live with a credit card and a mortgage and a student loan to better yourself because you are not allowed.  That's where supposed accurate doctrine leads them.  Me - I would say their doctrine is twisted.

The twisted manipulation of scripture and lives from an elitist cult is no measure when you put it up against the genuine love of a Christian community, even if everyone in it is all messed up.  Including myself.  Or maybe I should say especially myself.

So my suggestion is move out and connect even though we're afraid and damaged.  And if the TWI muckities want to criticize my honesty and vulnerability then I'm happy to stand by and wait until I get a front row seat for Jesus Christ's confrontation of their unrepentant, unloving and corrupt @$$es at the bema.  

Peace out brethren.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On January 11, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Twinky said:

Folks, it might be interesting to find out a bit about who comes to the Cafe so if you're willing, let's ask the questions. If I missed out a relevant category, apologies, tick other and tell us about it below.

I love coming to GSC; I was in TWI for ten years(1978-1988).  However, I was not kicked-out as some people were.  I left TWI because the Navy sent me to Italy, where there were no fellowships.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

I was in Italy from 1988-1990.  When I came back to the US, TWI was in a big, big mess.  I was no longer interested in going to Fellowship.  However, I hooked-up with a home fellowship in Rockland County, NY.  It was great!!

[Twinky]

Good for you, Grace Valerie Claire.  You missed some horrible times in TWI as the organization went into meltdown, well a worse meltdown than usual.

A warm welcome to the Cafe!