Who comes to the Cafe?

[excathedra]

excellent point greasy tech

--

i wrote an in depth paper i call under ice about hyphothermic brainwashing in an american cult. iT IS DEEP.

where can i read that OCW????? tanks

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Hypothermic brainwashing...now that paints a mind picture!...

...reminds me a little of my experience at Emporia. Maybe it's just me... but I think that running around half exhausted with people screaming at you for an entire year has a bit of a "jarring effect" on the average person...especially when they get you to believe that God is sponsering their indoctrination programs. When I left, I knew they were wrong and I never looked back...never questioned my decision to leave...and life has been a whole lot better since.

[George Aar]

Yeah, I was spouse corps too.

Didn't have a convenient blank to fill in fer that. Damn, I love filling in the convenient blanks.

Being spouse corps was somewhat similar to having a mildly contagious social disease. People thought you were cool till they saw the "sp" on your nametag. Then they'll chilled considerably...

[rhino]

Being spouse corps was somewhat similar to having a mildly contagious social disease. People thought you were cool till they saw the "sp" on your nametag. Then they'll chilled considerably...

Doesn't that just mean you were hanging out with the wrong people?

What a strange little world we lived in back then. Of course I s'pose going through four years of that BS does put you in a "special class." Did you do any time in the joint George? (I mean the in res' joint)

I did notice that 2/3 of the people responding to this poll, left over 15 years ago. So most of us got in in the 70's and left in '86 or by '92, except a few wiser folks who "bravely" left before POOP. Only one in eight were in within the last 10 years. I figured everyone would leave after poop, and can't imagine being in through lcm in the 90's, from what I read. That must have left some marks.

Certainly corps didn't offer anything like the military in training, pay, commitment, physical danger, or long term health care .... but I wonder just a little if there could be some other comparisons. We (the non ego maniacs) were mostly grunts ... and to a much different and lesser degree, it was like going through Viet Nam?

We felt there was some great cause we were fighting for, we were in it with this team (though were often disillusioned by our mentors), we saw some bad sheet, and we returned to real life a little changed, some more than others.

George, that is kinda blurred with your stream of consciouness thread, so I may finish the thought there ... but here what caught might attention was the poll set up. The "rankings" should have been reversed, with those that reached the "highest" levels being ranked at the bottom. If all you ever did was get in and go to a twig for a year, then left because you saw it was just structured insanity, then bully for you.

Those that lingered as slaves and became full time minimum wage workers with no long term benefits, either out of a misguided sense of well doing, or more likely because your ego got hooked and you were desperate for some cause to join ... then gee, what bad decisions you made. That maybe put you at the bottom of the barrel. (along with me ... well I never got paid, and did real work after becoming a corpse grad) Anyway, "what levels did you reach" could have been termed "what depths did you sink to" ;)

Of course everyone is different, but George, would you really have wanted "praise" for having spent time in residence? That would have indicated you had spent time in the asylum in residence, but it was the wrong cause. I guess some spouse corps spent a year in the crazy place, but they had a corps grad spouse to guide them through the bs ... and the poor spouse that had to go through another year ... I forget what they did for the year.

But I do recall what a different world it seemed when I saw married corps had their own room. It must have helped their sanity a little. I had no private space, just a bunk in a room with 4 to 40 other people. But my nametag didn't have the "sp" on it... gee, isn't that special.

Edited January 21, 2008 by rhino

[Twinky]

Thank you, "Spouse Corps/child in Family Corps" would have been a good addition. Life could be very unfair for such spouses. There are also horror stories from plenty of WC kids here who were affected by their parents' decisions to enter the WC.

Non Corps spouses were encouraged to participate in the program and the spouse was often given a job on staff (usually at the same location but there were times when they would be at separate campuses for a month or two).

Around my time in rez (early 90s) came the ban on marrying non-Corps and shortly thereafter BOTH of them were required to repeat the Corps program. If either was deemed not up to standard, they both had to leave.

One grad of about WC10 or 12 was in with his spouse and she had suuuch a hard time and they both got asked to leave. She had been a good loyal supporter of her husband but simply couldn't cope with the extreme demands of in rez. A good couple was lost there. (Or maybe, was given the opportunity to get found (wry smile).)

I must admit I was a little envious of in rez couples having their own room (oh, some space!!) and the opportunity for a few shreds of normal life.

The "rankings" should have been reversed, with those that reached the "highest" levels being ranked at the bottom.

You could be right, especially since the highest ranking is "servant" of all. Maybe I'm showing a little Waybrain...

Thanks, all, for your responses, please add your own votes if you have not already done so.

[WhiteDove]

Being spouse corps was somewhat similar to having a mildly contagious social disease. People thought you were cool till they saw the "sp" on your nametag. Then they'll chilled considerably...

Aint it the truth........

Apperantly an attitude that has not yet been resolved for some to this day.

[rhino]

Aint it the truth........

Apperantly an attitude that has not yet been resolved for some to this day.

Which "some" are you referring to?

The spouse corps I knew best wasn't treated at all like having a social disease. He spent a year in res', was ordained, and became paid staff for an area.

Another that married a corps gal was older and a great guy. I don't remember how he was treated at corps only functions, there weren't that many. At other functions he was treated just fine.

Maybe twi life was different in the 90's, but I don't recall any stigma attached to spouse status. And certainly you were better off with spouse stigma than actually having to spend those years in residence.

But then if your spouse status meant that some twi hot shot told your spouse to divorce you and sell your house, you probably have reason to be bitter. But if you married someone that committed to twi, you are still probably better off being shunned by those that respect nametags, than being a still committed corps grad.

Now that I think of it, the only TWI guy I hung out with briefly after leaving TWI was a spouse corps.

[Twinky]

Okay, let's try and keep this on track.

For the avoidance of doubt, I see Spouse Corps as Corps. So tick that box. Unless you prefer to tick some other box. It's how you see yourself.

[rhino]

What track are we supposed to be on? :)

After 10 days, I'd guess most everyone has taken the poll. 83 seems like a high number of responses. Now it is time for analysis?

Around half the folks that bothered to respond were in the corps, about two thirds went WOW, one in eight were thrown out.

It is our common experiences that brings us here to chat. I think at the time, I did use to treat corps differntly, I basically assumed they would help with all big functions. Others were looked at as more volunteer. Also there was and is the common experiences of beign in residence that "unites" on a certain level.

I "unite" with George St. George because we both went to U of Illinois. I unite with other people at different boards based solely on being a fellow alumni. With just a little effort I could argue against those darn REd Sox fans, and unite with Johniam as fellow Cardinal fans.

It is interesting to see the different divisions here, but we were all in the cult. Getting out sooner was better than later ... being non corps was better than being corps ... generally. I don't quite get bemoaning not going corps but having the tag with the sp on it, I guess we all had our special form of h ell.

[brideofjc]

Scar tissue is not the same as fresh, living tissue. Even as the wounds close up with the

scar tissue, the reminders are always there.

I stayed until 1987 when upon hearing LCM degrade Jews to such a point that I realized, finally, TWI was anti-semitic...

after all....where did they place the Lord Jesus Christ? Wish I hadn't wasted all those years. But here's to ya!

[WhiteDove]

Which "some" are you referring to?

The spouse corps I knew best wasn't treated at all like having a social disease. He spent a year in res', was ordained, and became paid staff for an area.

Another that married a corps gal was older and a great guy. I don't remember how he was treated at corps only functions, there weren't that many. At other functions he was treated just fine.

Maybe twi life was different in the 90's, but I don't recall any stigma attached to spouse status. And certainly you were better off with spouse stigma than actually having to spend those years in residence.

But then if your spouse status meant that some twi hot shot told your spouse to divorce you and sell your house, you probably have reason to be bitter. But if you married someone that committed to twi, you are still probably better off being shunned by those that respect nametags, than being a still committed corps grad.

Now that I think of it, the only TWI guy I hung out with briefly after leaving TWI was a spouse corps.

I was not speaking of the 90s. The first hurdle one had to jump was to actually be a spouse I know of several that behind their backs their so called friends talked the spouse out of getting married they needed to marry the "best don't Ya know." Translated that meant you could be a complete looser but if you sat in a desk for a space of time you were the best. ( I think I'm hearing an O'Jays song about now) Once you crossed that hurdle there were always those that thought they were

somehow more informed, more spiritual than you. Thankfully not everyone thought that way.

Which "some" are you referring to?

Now you know No naming names........I'll just say but if the shoe fits............

[rascal]

I didn`t fit in the poll very well.

I was corpes spouse...I think I accidently put in residence, but was only app for a few years, before marrying.

I also had to leave because spouse left. I as the wife was not welcome if my spiritually tripped out husband didn`t write a loyalty oath, or jump through their hoops to remain in good standing.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

In my experience (1975-1987), corps spouse were always treated like second class citizens. It's like you "by-passed" the corps training and got yourself a corps nametag anyway...and it's s good thing that you have "sp" on that nametag so we know who you are!

Loyalty oath indeed! Can you imagine the arrogance that it took to demand such a thing? What a jerk he was.

[rhino]

Now you know No naming names........I'll just say but if the shoe fits............

fine ... wimp out if you must ...

but I don't get what the spouse corpse are lamenting ...

they didn't go throught the corps torture program, and they are irritated that they got treated like they didn't go through the corps program, but ony married into the corps program?

So once you married the corps beach or sob, you thought you deserved the same undeserved status as the poor sap that went through the program?

That is just crazy talk. There was supposed to be something to the training, why would you be treated the same if you did the program?

Edited January 22, 2008 by rhino

[rascal]

Well I agree with you Groucho. I wasn`t really good enough to be REAL corpes. Everything I did was under scrutiny 24/7 to make sure that I was up to snuff spiritually.

Anything I did would reflect on my spouses lack of spiritual discernment in chosing to marry non corpes.

I felt like I had to work twice as hard at everything in order to prove myself, and not bring shame and disgrace to my spouse.

I was not treated as a partner in our marriage because my spouse was in charge of my spiritual growth that I would have recieved through the program. He was the teacher, the over seer, the tc. I felt I had no voice. It certainly wasn`t a partnership :(

Everything was measured by how quick I obeyed and how closely I followed instruction.

I found it to be a really, really tough life...it was probably 15 years into the marriage before I finally stood up for myself and children for the first time. It was one of the toughest things that I have ever done. Before that, I l believed, as I had been taught....that God required implicit obedience to him.

Edited January 22, 2008 by rascal

[Scooterpop]

Well as for me......I was beginning to see the micro managing of our lives...

at 42 years old and single I was told that I needed a "chaperone" when going on a date....

I thought at 42 yrs what the h*ll do i need a chaperone for?????????????

The 2 by 2 mentality was getting a bit ridiculous...if i needed to go to the airport it was "take another believer with you"

I was told by my coordinator that if i got married to the gentlemen i was dating i was out.....

After I left about 3 months later the poop hit the fan.....with Martindale...I was still getting the Way Rag and didn't see

the Prez's pic in there and called a friend and they clued me in on the big mess.......

[rhino]

I was not treated as a partner in our marriage because my spouse was in charge of my spiritual growth that I would have recieved through the program. He was the teacher, the over seer, the tc. I felt I had no voice. It certainly wasn`t a partnership :(

Everything was measured by how quick I obeyed and how closely I followed instruction.

I found it to be a really, really tough life...it was probably 15 years into the marriage before I finally stood up for myself and children for the first time. It was one of the toughest things that I have ever done. Before that, I l believed, as I had been taught....that God required implicit obedience to him.

Well I can certainly see if your own spouse treated you as second class, there would be a problem.

In my little branch space, I didn't get much direct intervetnion, and the spouse corps were treated like their spouses. What a hellish world it would be to have a spouse hold that over your head. But I guess at that point some thought marrying into the corpse was a good thing. :o

[rascal]

I didn`t SAY that my spouse treated me as a second class citizen rhino...what a horrible thing to misconstrue my post to say.

Our marriage was run by the book...according to way standards...we BOTH did the very best we could to follow the instructions laid out by our leadership, earnestly believing that was the way God expected us to act.

As far as marrying into the corpes?? Well... with pop hitting the fan that year, my bc and tc told me that in their opinion...with things up in the air as they were...that they did NOT recommend entering residence at that time. My future spouse offered to teach me as best he could how to live that *it is written* standard. I thought it was a pretty good idea at the time...shrug.

Edited January 22, 2008 by rascal

[rhino]

I didn`t SAY that my spouse treated me as a second class citizen rhino...what a horrible thing to misconstrue my post to say.

Our marriage was run by the book...according to way standards...we BOTH did the very best we could to follow the instructions laid out by our leadership, earnestly believing that was the way God expected us to act.

OK, sorry, I don't know anything about you except what you just said. YOU said it certainly was NOT a partnership. I'm still not clear how else to construe that.

To me this quote seems to put this spouse corps in second class, even if it was due to the corps spouse obeying the TWI standard ...

I was not treated as a partner in our marriage because my spouse was in charge of my spiritual growth that I would have recieved through the program. He was the teacher, the over seer, the tc. I felt I had no voice. It certainly wasn`t a partnership :(

Everything was measured by how quick I obeyed and how closely I followed instruction.

[Twinky]

Rascal:

I'm sorry you were ill-treated as a mere spouse-corps wife. You got a double whammy. Partly because you are "only" a woman and partly because you were "only" spouse Corps. Of course it was right you had to leave when your spritually tricked out husband left (you can see my tongue in my cheek, right?) (spit, spit, at that sort of attitude).

No women were treated as equal partners in their marriages (or other significant relationships). In this you were (unfortunately) not discriminated against.

Everyone, please:

Can I remind posters that the purpose of this thread is to consider who comes here to the Cafe and not to debate treatment of spouse Corps. That is a significant point that perhaps should be discussed - maybe someone would like to start another thread? (Mods, feel free to lift some of this thread to start a new one!)

Thanks, folks for continuing to vote in the poll. There are some interesting results that I hadn't quite expected.

[man]

Folks, it might be interesting to find out a bit about who comes to the Cafe so if you're willing, let's ask the questions. If I missed out a relevant category, apologies, tick other and tell us about it below.

I don't know about anyone else, but under "reason for leaving" I would have chosen "woke up suddenly" if it were available.

I've had an account here a long time. I had one on the old forums when we were told not to go on the internet. I always thought the people here were bitter people, with their "conscience seared with a hot iron". Well, I have no axe to grind ... well ... other than some people I knew and loved were driven to do things out of character blah blah blah. That's not the topic here though.

I not only left the Way, but I don't believe there is a god any more. I think christianity and all religion is nothing but a social method of maintaining control over people. Since I have adopted this attitute, life has been awesome. I have 12% more to spend, I bought a nice car, am shopping for a nice house, and my marriage is 100x better than before. Will I come back? I doubt it. I could not care less what happens to the Way or Lynn's "other" way or any organization that is a 1000 horsepower irony factory.

So yeah ... who comes here? People like me who see the entertainment value in this whole circus, and who hope that maybe by some stroke of insane luck (yes ... yes it DOES exist) I may run into an old friend or two.

[Twinky]

Welcome back, Man, and who knows, you might meet some new friends too!

Glad you "woke up" and now that you are awake, it truly is your choice to believe what you want, and get the benefits/consequences either way. You are welcome here whatever your views. Try starting a thread on "social control" and see what responses you get. Could be interesting.

[man]

Welcome back, Man, and who knows, you might meet some new friends too!

Thank you very much. I've read quite a lot here, recognized some folks by what they post, and even read about people looking for my wife and I. Massive entertainment. I hope the writer's strike goes on a while longer, because this is way more entertaining.

Try starting a thread on "social control" and see what responses you get. Could be interesting.

LOL! No doubt! I prefer living vicariously though. Yeah I was there too.

[excathedra]

i don't know who you are, man, but the fact that you discredited someone (the kansas wow poster)

makes me have less respect for what you have to say

ps. i'm drunk so i may have misunderstood the whole thing

if so, forgive me

[excathedra]

So yeah ... who comes here? People like me who see the entertainment value in this whole circus, and who hope that maybe by some stroke of insane luck (yes ... yes it DOES exist) I may run into an old friend or two.

okay i get you

but don't you think you should be a little more considerate or kind ?