I don't see any profit in having a sanctuary, of sorts, in NK. If "everyone" knows about it and where it is...it's not a safe place because the WayGB will know exactly where to go should they want to taunt!
I think it would/could be agreat thing. If set up properly it could not only transitionally house people but save them years of turmoil by allowing them not only physically but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually to be slowly reintroduced to the real world which most left long ago.
You would have plenty of business if you not only opened it up to ex-twi's , but any excultists--People are leaving all sorts of cults everyday and need help,(housing is only the tip of the iceberg ) by broadening the perspective you would have many people from other cults who would probably be glad to be part of the funding pool.
I think a good fundraiser in a nonprofit could raise enough to have not only a good shelter but a transitional program of say 1 to 4 months. Everything is changing with new excultists, offer solid counselling, get locked in with job training and placement outfits, educational opportunities, help them to reestablish family links..or whatever issues that are peculair to them, so that when they leave they can fully reassimilate into the real world and not carry unneccesary residue for years.
It would better those people and save most of them alot of years of hit and miss reguaging of their lives.... hell you could probably get grants and churches would love it
I dont know-if you had a core group of people that worked on the idea and did all the figuring and fundraising you could probably eventually get someone somewhere to donate or sell very cheaply a house (or some sort of facility)where a pilot program could be started, and then depending on the amount of need--expand regionally. I dont know, but I do know that there are hundreds (thousands maybe) of cults and no shortage of people that would benefit from a program like this
Thank you, mstar. I agree with everything you said.
My thoughts are also with the teenage girls(slaves) who grow up in polygamy in Utah. Can't seem to get them out of my mind since I saw a story about a girl in her 20s, now, who got out and told her story.
It seems that the fathers tell their daughters who they will marry when they are around 14 or 15. Then they have the ceremony and she becomes one of many wives. Each wife has to go to work to support herself and her children. Since they marry so young, most of them don't finish high school and therefore get menial jobs.
They have large houses with front doors for each wife and her children so the wives of one man (and I use that term loosely)all live together, yet separately. Then, he makes the rounds and makes them tell him when they are ovulating.
The way that this girl got out with her two children was that her niece, who was a few yrs. younger than she and a close friend, was beaten unconscious by the niece's father when the niece refused to marry someone he selected. The father ended up in prison and the niece, thank God, connected with regular mormons who sent missionaries to talk to her aunt. They went several times before she got up enough courage to leave with them. Now she is in paralegal school and has remarried a nice guy (don't know what his religion is).
I would REALLY LIKE to help these girls, too. Can this REALLY be happening in America? I thought slavery was over (not, apparently).
I know I would contribute to something like this and would love to get something started. The downside would be having to deal with some very angry, not too stable, males who would be angry at having their playhouses messed up. Some of these men in this society are pretty well off financially, also.
Until I saw the T.V. program, I had NO IDEA this sort of thing went on in our country to this extent. I had always thought the women were WILLING in the polygamy camps, not forced. Of course, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. Some must be OK with it.
I think that a safe house is a great idea. But as far as in NK WOULD be out of the question as any safe house would be known about when it would be set up.
A safe house cold be set up in a city near NK and through a person not ever affiliated with TWI. That way it would be hard for anyone with them to track it down.
As far as the mormons, I know that there was a polygamy group of the mormons in the Arizona or New Mexico area that still practices multiple marrages, with some of the women being as young as 12 to 14 years old. I think i may have seen the same type of show on the multiple marrages. One man covered on the show had 7 to 8 wives and the youngest wife was about 15 or 16 and the husband had married her when she was about 12 or 13.
There is no need in having to have any girl marry that young here in the United States. I know that people from India and some of the Arab countries still practice arranged marriges. and they have kids as young as 7 to 8 already set up on who they are going to marry.
But the idea of a "safe" house is a great idea. Even if it starts out on a small scale at first, like a 3 or 4 bedroom house with a way of having the right people be able to find it that want to get out of the cults.
I know a little bit about non-profits and would really like to start a foundation to suppport a relocation safehouse.
I've been out, oh, probably 15 years, and it surprises me that the way location would need to be secret. I mean, what is Rosalee gonna do, send bless patrol in and "get" them????
All kidding aside, just for brainstorming's sake, suppose there WERE a house like that in NK and a big 'ole sign in front that said, "sponsored, in part, by ex-way followers." If I were IN, that would send a strong message to me or, at the very least, plant a seed thought that these people must be really SERIOUS about helping people leave and WHY would they do that? Then, if they ever did get ready to leave and didn't have the finances, they might think of coming by the house for help.
I like your idea, also, about a town nearby...and maybe that would be better, too, so they would not feel "on display" for the way people to see them in their comings and goings, during the months that they were there.
WB
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on January 03, 2004 at 12:20.]
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on January 03, 2004 at 13:22.]
I understand what your saying about being in nk so that everyone knows where to go. But when some people leave twi it is pretty scary. When I left they harrassed me and even walzted into my house to see if any other people from twi were in there. Twi people can be very bold if they think your taking others with them. Twi's belief is that if one person leaves then they are taking at least 10 others with them. Or so I was told when I was in twi.
Also, being in nk would be awful hard to hook folks up to resources to get the help they need. They will need to hook with counseling and working with their own families. Most families are in different states. Also, in the process of getting it together, nk is a small town and may not be the right place for looking for a job. I don't think there would be too many jobs in nk.
A bigger town or a big city would be great for getting the resources they need to get their lives together. A perfect place would be somewhere quiet outside of a big city so they can heal.
When getting a place going all these things need to be thought out before going into it.
I know there is a lot of money available with the government if you know how to do it. Also, there may be business that would want to give help. But it takes time to get all those resources together and make it work.
I believe it could work if you had enough and the right people who knew how to go about this. I've worked with human services and grant writing before, although I haven't wrote grants myself. It is very hard and the words have to be just right.
I am very interested to do this with the people that really want to help. I think that the idea earlier of not just limiting it to twi was a great one.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Agreed. The people leaving would most likely NOT settle in any of the small Ohio towns surrounding NK.
But, would there be a need for them to go to a house (shelter) nearby so that they could then contact relatives or friends who would help them with the relocation arrangements?
Or, what if they wanted to get out, have no money, and don't know WHERE to relocate? Should we have a list of volunteers who would be willing to mentor such cases (with financial assistance from the foundation) and help them find a temporary dwelling place and work in their city? I imagine some may have ailenated family and friends and, now that they see the light, have no where to go.
vickles, I'm in. How do we go about getting this thing started?
hey how about the ones that are interested to start e-mailing each other? My e-mail addy is vicki_filion@mchsi.com . We can start talking and looking into stuff. I'm going back to school to finish my social work degree and this would be a perfect avenue for me not only personally but also professionally.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
quote:, what if they wanted to get out, have no money, and don't know WHERE to relocate
Well thats one reason I said you should give them a few months to transition, get counselling, get their head somewhat back on before they have to make major decisions and make things into a harder road than necessary.
I might start by contacting ex-JW, Ex-Scientology, Ex-moonie, ex-ICC groups and the like to see if anyone is doing something similar who would be willing to share their ideas and strategies. The might haver insights at the very worst you would probably drum up some support from other groups that would also like to get involved.
As far as putting one in NK, if a house became available there I would, although someplace else may be better for the new ex member. I wouldnt worry about harrassment or people waltzing in....on establishment of the facility let the local authorities know what you are doing,the possibilities of harrassment, and let the bastards know from the git go that they dont mess with this house..Its a legal issue, if you were set up as a nonprofit you could probably get some sort of general restraining order aginst harrassment and intimidation against the organization. That, locked doors and a few burly guys on the staff help
[This message was edited by mstar1 on January 03, 2004 at 15:37.]
Not that this is war, per se, but it seems to me the people who want to get this going are telling the 'enemy' what their plans are. You are losing the element of surprise. This is not good strategy.
I agree with Pawtucket on this matter, for what it's worth.
WB the shelter idea sounds interesting but I'm wondering if there is a real need for something above and beyond what already exists.
The majority of wayfers already have a job and a place to live so the extent of their leaving is to change their phone number and hang a no tresspassing sign on their front door. These guys will go through a *readjustment* period but already have life coping skills and will in all likelyhood be fine.
The only folks I can see having need of such a place are the folks at gunnison or hq which maybe number 250 or 350 all together and I don't see them leaving in hordes anymore. So my thinking is, if the program ain't broken no need to go messing around with it.
the IRS has a mound of paper work that has to be done, and done correctly the first time or they can kick it back to you over and over again. it can be done by an lawyer for a fee of anywhere from 500.00 to 25,000.00 depending on the work involved. I can do it for free and have done it for many other org's.
it doesn't have to be nonprofit, it can be for profit but that doesn't mean it will make a profit.
the expenses of housing people till they can get on their feet can get pretty expensive. the average "halfway" house in minnesota charges anywhere from 900.00 a month on up.
the things you need to ask yourself are, who's going to run it, even if it's a part time house it has to have someone there 24/7. location, transportation, relocation, education for people with children, and the list goes on.
if people really want to get this going I will help with the paperwork for the IRS (their fee used to be 250.00 for filing) and I will go so far as letting my home in minnesota be used as a transitional house. anyway, let me know and I will do what I can.
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pawtucket
It is a good idea.
I don't think that we need something full time though.
I will do some checking around, but I believe that there is something already in place. It is just done by a handful of people quietly.
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krys
I don't see any profit in having a sanctuary, of sorts, in NK. If "everyone" knows about it and where it is...it's not a safe place because the WayGB will know exactly where to go should they want to taunt!
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mstar1
I think it would/could be agreat thing. If set up properly it could not only transitionally house people but save them years of turmoil by allowing them not only physically but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually to be slowly reintroduced to the real world which most left long ago.
You would have plenty of business if you not only opened it up to ex-twi's , but any excultists--People are leaving all sorts of cults everyday and need help,(housing is only the tip of the iceberg ) by broadening the perspective you would have many people from other cults who would probably be glad to be part of the funding pool.
I think a good fundraiser in a nonprofit could raise enough to have not only a good shelter but a transitional program of say 1 to 4 months. Everything is changing with new excultists, offer solid counselling, get locked in with job training and placement outfits, educational opportunities, help them to reestablish family links..or whatever issues that are peculair to them, so that when they leave they can fully reassimilate into the real world and not carry unneccesary residue for years.
It would better those people and save most of them alot of years of hit and miss reguaging of their lives.... hell you could probably get grants and churches would love it
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vickles
Gosh mstar, this sounds perfect!!! But how to start it and where to put it?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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mstar1
I dont know-if you had a core group of people that worked on the idea and did all the figuring and fundraising you could probably eventually get someone somewhere to donate or sell very cheaply a house (or some sort of facility)where a pilot program could be started, and then depending on the amount of need--expand regionally. I dont know, but I do know that there are hundreds (thousands maybe) of cults and no shortage of people that would benefit from a program like this
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waterbuffalo
Thank you, mstar. I agree with everything you said.
My thoughts are also with the teenage girls(slaves) who grow up in polygamy in Utah. Can't seem to get them out of my mind since I saw a story about a girl in her 20s, now, who got out and told her story.
It seems that the fathers tell their daughters who they will marry when they are around 14 or 15. Then they have the ceremony and she becomes one of many wives. Each wife has to go to work to support herself and her children. Since they marry so young, most of them don't finish high school and therefore get menial jobs.
They have large houses with front doors for each wife and her children so the wives of one man (and I use that term loosely)all live together, yet separately. Then, he makes the rounds and makes them tell him when they are ovulating.
The way that this girl got out with her two children was that her niece, who was a few yrs. younger than she and a close friend, was beaten unconscious by the niece's father when the niece refused to marry someone he selected. The father ended up in prison and the niece, thank God, connected with regular mormons who sent missionaries to talk to her aunt. They went several times before she got up enough courage to leave with them. Now she is in paralegal school and has remarried a nice guy (don't know what his religion is).
I would REALLY LIKE to help these girls, too. Can this REALLY be happening in America? I thought slavery was over (not, apparently).
I know I would contribute to something like this and would love to get something started. The downside would be having to deal with some very angry, not too stable, males who would be angry at having their playhouses messed up. Some of these men in this society are pretty well off financially, also.
Until I saw the T.V. program, I had NO IDEA this sort of thing went on in our country to this extent. I had always thought the women were WILLING in the polygamy camps, not forced. Of course, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. Some must be OK with it.
WB
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danteh1
I think that a safe house is a great idea. But as far as in NK WOULD be out of the question as any safe house would be known about when it would be set up.
A safe house cold be set up in a city near NK and through a person not ever affiliated with TWI. That way it would be hard for anyone with them to track it down.
As far as the mormons, I know that there was a polygamy group of the mormons in the Arizona or New Mexico area that still practices multiple marrages, with some of the women being as young as 12 to 14 years old. I think i may have seen the same type of show on the multiple marrages. One man covered on the show had 7 to 8 wives and the youngest wife was about 15 or 16 and the husband had married her when she was about 12 or 13.
There is no need in having to have any girl marry that young here in the United States. I know that people from India and some of the Arab countries still practice arranged marriges. and they have kids as young as 7 to 8 already set up on who they are going to marry.
But the idea of a "safe" house is a great idea. Even if it starts out on a small scale at first, like a 3 or 4 bedroom house with a way of having the right people be able to find it that want to get out of the cults.
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waterbuffalo
Danteh1,
I know a little bit about non-profits and would really like to start a foundation to suppport a relocation safehouse.
I've been out, oh, probably 15 years, and it surprises me that the way location would need to be secret. I mean, what is Rosalee gonna do, send bless patrol in and "get" them????
All kidding aside, just for brainstorming's sake, suppose there WERE a house like that in NK and a big 'ole sign in front that said, "sponsored, in part, by ex-way followers." If I were IN, that would send a strong message to me or, at the very least, plant a seed thought that these people must be really SERIOUS about helping people leave and WHY would they do that? Then, if they ever did get ready to leave and didn't have the finances, they might think of coming by the house for help.
I like your idea, also, about a town nearby...and maybe that would be better, too, so they would not feel "on display" for the way people to see them in their comings and goings, during the months that they were there.
WB
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on January 03, 2004 at 12:20.]
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on January 03, 2004 at 13:22.]
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vickles
Waterbuffalo,
I understand what your saying about being in nk so that everyone knows where to go. But when some people leave twi it is pretty scary. When I left they harrassed me and even walzted into my house to see if any other people from twi were in there. Twi people can be very bold if they think your taking others with them. Twi's belief is that if one person leaves then they are taking at least 10 others with them. Or so I was told when I was in twi.
Also, being in nk would be awful hard to hook folks up to resources to get the help they need. They will need to hook with counseling and working with their own families. Most families are in different states. Also, in the process of getting it together, nk is a small town and may not be the right place for looking for a job. I don't think there would be too many jobs in nk.
A bigger town or a big city would be great for getting the resources they need to get their lives together. A perfect place would be somewhere quiet outside of a big city so they can heal.
When getting a place going all these things need to be thought out before going into it.
I know there is a lot of money available with the government if you know how to do it. Also, there may be business that would want to give help. But it takes time to get all those resources together and make it work.
I believe it could work if you had enough and the right people who knew how to go about this. I've worked with human services and grant writing before, although I haven't wrote grants myself. It is very hard and the words have to be just right.
I am very interested to do this with the people that really want to help. I think that the idea earlier of not just limiting it to twi was a great one.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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simpatico
Great Idea!
I also think NK would not work as well as another location because it would just be to uncomfortable emotionaly for the people trying
to escape the way. Perhaps something more in the line of a underground railroad, a place to go to in NK just to get a ride to the bus station
or whatever is needed to get to the next location.
But wherever that safehouse is, it would not be a secret for long, someone would end up going back and spilling the beans to HQ.
When or if that happened the safehouse would be far enough away to be more inconvenient for
harassment from the HQ.
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waterbuffalo
vickles,
Agreed. The people leaving would most likely NOT settle in any of the small Ohio towns surrounding NK.
But, would there be a need for them to go to a house (shelter) nearby so that they could then contact relatives or friends who would help them with the relocation arrangements?
Or, what if they wanted to get out, have no money, and don't know WHERE to relocate? Should we have a list of volunteers who would be willing to mentor such cases (with financial assistance from the foundation) and help them find a temporary dwelling place and work in their city? I imagine some may have ailenated family and friends and, now that they see the light, have no where to go.
vickles, I'm in. How do we go about getting this thing started?
WB
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vickles
hey how about the ones that are interested to start e-mailing each other? My e-mail addy is vicki_filion@mchsi.com . We can start talking and looking into stuff. I'm going back to school to finish my social work degree and this would be a perfect avenue for me not only personally but also professionally.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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mstar1
Well thats one reason I said you should give them a few months to transition, get counselling, get their head somewhat back on before they have to make major decisions and make things into a harder road than necessary.
I might start by contacting ex-JW, Ex-Scientology, Ex-moonie, ex-ICC groups and the like to see if anyone is doing something similar who would be willing to share their ideas and strategies. The might haver insights at the very worst you would probably drum up some support from other groups that would also like to get involved.
As far as putting one in NK, if a house became available there I would, although someplace else may be better for the new ex member. I wouldnt worry about harrassment or people waltzing in....on establishment of the facility let the local authorities know what you are doing,the possibilities of harrassment, and let the bastards know from the git go that they dont mess with this house..Its a legal issue, if you were set up as a nonprofit you could probably get some sort of general restraining order aginst harrassment and intimidation against the organization. That, locked doors and a few burly guys on the staff help
[This message was edited by mstar1 on January 03, 2004 at 15:37.]
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vickles
Thats a great idea mstar!!!!!!!!!!
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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pawtucket
I have a few thoughts.
1 it has to be discreet, not secret.
2 it has to involve locals
3 it has to be simple, very simple
People aren't leaving in droves anymore.
If you start a PT as one of you already have the topic could start being discrete.
[This message was edited by pawtucket on January 06, 2004 at 12:46.]
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
Not that this is war, per se, but it seems to me the people who want to get this going are telling the 'enemy' what their plans are. You are losing the element of surprise. This is not good strategy.
I agree with Pawtucket on this matter, for what it's worth.
The lessons repeat until they are learned.
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
btw, I think a good name for it would be "The Underground Waylroad"
:D-->
The lessons repeat until they are learned.
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vickles
Paw,
I understand what your saying. Thankyou.
thousandscreennames....ha ha good name!!!!
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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waterbuffalo
Mstar,
Your suggestions are GREAT! Thanks!
Paw, understood.
WB
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tony
Folks here are trying to recreate the wheel. Here is the address of one place that can and does help people coming out of cults.
www.meadowhaven.org
Long Live Israel !
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herbiejuan
WB the shelter idea sounds interesting but I'm wondering if there is a real need for something above and beyond what already exists.
The majority of wayfers already have a job and a place to live so the extent of their leaving is to change their phone number and hang a no tresspassing sign on their front door. These guys will go through a *readjustment* period but already have life coping skills and will in all likelyhood be fine.
The only folks I can see having need of such a place are the folks at gunnison or hq which maybe number 250 or 350 all together and I don't see them leaving in hordes anymore. So my thinking is, if the program ain't broken no need to go messing around with it.
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papajohn
to set up a 501©3, nonprofit corp isn't very hard.
the IRS has a mound of paper work that has to be done, and done correctly the first time or they can kick it back to you over and over again. it can be done by an lawyer for a fee of anywhere from 500.00 to 25,000.00 depending on the work involved. I can do it for free and have done it for many other org's.
it doesn't have to be nonprofit, it can be for profit but that doesn't mean it will make a profit.
the expenses of housing people till they can get on their feet can get pretty expensive. the average "halfway" house in minnesota charges anywhere from 900.00 a month on up.
the things you need to ask yourself are, who's going to run it, even if it's a part time house it has to have someone there 24/7. location, transportation, relocation, education for people with children, and the list goes on.
if people really want to get this going I will help with the paperwork for the IRS (their fee used to be 250.00 for filing) and I will go so far as letting my home in minnesota be used as a transitional house. anyway, let me know and I will do what I can.
peace
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papajohn
P.S.
donations these days are very hard to come by.
if you ask the gov for grants, they have to be spent EXACTLY as the grant says which may force you to do things you really didn't want to do.
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