I'm sure somewhere someone has an old syllabus from some class that says something about how the fellowships were supposed to be (Ahem) self-supporting, self-propagating (don't make any wisecracks) and self-yadda yadda.
SNIP
Each Twig is self-supporting, self-propagating and self-governing in cooperation with its respective Branch as each Branch is to its respective Limb, as each Limb is to its respective Trunk, as each Trunk is to the Root of the Way.
I was pretty new at the time, but didn't abs once upon a time go from twig to branch to limb to root? I don't know if I'm recalling this correctly, but I thought I heard a lcm tirade about having to change it because branch and limb leaders were using too much of the ministry money... this would have been around 1989-90, maybe at WIB (Fresno???), and he made some snide comments about twig welfare systems.
In the 70's my twig's ABS was mailed directly to P.O. Box 328, New Knoxville, OH.
That's how I remember it also.
As a twig leader, I filled out a form with each twig member's name and ABS.
I think it was blue. Don't remember.
If they paid by check, it was enclosed.
If they paid by cash, I had to get a money order for the total.
This had to come out of my pocket, NOT the ABS.
Horn of plenty monies also had to have a money order, if I remember correctly.
It was then mailed to New Knockwurst.
I paid the postage.(Could NOT come out of ABS.)
The exception to this would be if we had a twig leader's meeting for the branch.
In that circumstance, we turned our paperwork over to the branch secretary rather than mailing it and it was all sent to HQ en masse thus saving postage.
That was in the early to mid '70s.
We helped each other out quite a bit with clothes and food, etc.
This all came from individuals and twigs, NOT from HQ.
Even this was discouraged(but not forbidden) as time went on.
We were told we were hurting the recipients by removing the burden of believing from them.
Coffee, cups, sugar, etc. was donated by individuals or twigs.
It was NOT to come out of branch "love offerings".
My church has a fund set aside to help people in need. The also run a small "Food bank" of sorts.
WD- I know that there were isolated incidents of giving - but would you agree that the story about the family living in the hotel was in the early days of the ministry? I didn't see much of it.
I heard of HQ helping people - but it seemed to be the exception over the rule, and I saw and heard of less and less as time went on.
No I believe it was in 87 0r 88 during Bob Win*garner's brief stint as the Limb Leader. the other where we lived was in 74. But yes I would agree from around here at least there were few incidents. Which was why we always had the Twig Pig and yes I heard about it but it did not deter me. When they switched to the beta format and were promoting buying machines we bought the first one in the area from the Pig money. Funny no one ever complained about using it ,nor where the money came from was never a problem then.
Our ABS went to the branch and was used there, then to the Way of Kansas and was used, then what was left to the Way Int. Until around 1974 then it was all centralized to Ohio. I think we bought too many pizza's
The exception to this would be if we had a twig leader's meeting for the branch.
In that circumstance, we turned our paperwork over to the branch secretary rather than mailing it and it was all sent to HQ en masse thus saving postage.
this might be what had The Forehead so ticked off... part of it anyway... he mentioned abs not making it to the root from the branches and limbs.
Sounds like they said they cared, and that they were supposed to care,
but what they did was heartless and UNcaring.
Not everyone has such a horror story (I don't, WD didn't), but that doesn't change
what they did to you.
At the time, I guess it was a horror story because it was well, horrifying. But it was a long time ago and I now have the advantage of looking back on this event that changed the course of my life through different eyes. At the time, I really believed that we should go to our leaders with everything. Interestingly before I did, another believer warned me to be careful who I shared my heart with. I agreed with this believer, yet when the time came I talked to this leader even though alarm bells were going off in my head. I really wanted what she was portraying to be true-so I went for it and then Bam! But I was at least able to move and get away from this person. The next year people who had "issue's" in this area were told to stay so they could be under the over sight of this awful couple. Eeeesh!
What they said what they did, this topic got me thinking about a post I saw here on GS. A woman and her son had been treated visciously by a leader and then M&AD. From what she said, I'm pretty sure I know who this leader was. These leaders had a son who ended up being M&AD so they resigned because they refused to M&A their own son. Couldn't practice what they preached. Hopefully they changed for the better after they saw what it was like to be in someone elses shoes. I don't know what happened to them.
What they said what they did, this topic got me thinking about a post I saw here on GS. A woman and her son had been treated visciously by a leader and then M&AD. From what she said, I'm pretty sure I know who this leader was. These leaders had a son who ended up being M&AD so they resigned because they refused to M&A their own son. Couldn't practice what they preached. Hopefully they changed for the better after they saw what it was like to be in someone elses shoes. I don't know what happened to them.
Maybe they learned.
Alarmingly large numbers of people who left twi DIDN'T.
(Most, I think, DID learn, either immediately or eventually.)
"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out." - Hans Neimoller (translated.)
When I first found WayDale, and subsequently GSC, I was absolutely astounded at the hypocrisy of the BOD and other leadership of TWI. Example: In 1995, we were soundly castigated for flying from Seattle to Ohio for the ROA. I was diabetic and driving straight through would have been hard on me. But did I really need an excuse?
Then I find out that the BOD regularly took vacations to the Bahamas and nice places like that. Did they drive? I don't think so. Did they put themselves into hardship to save money to be used for the outreach of God's Word? Were they more deserving than the rest of us?
As far as ABS goes, Waysider is right - it was supposed to be used for the twig to be self-supporting. This was supposed to be the official ABS, self-supporting, take care of each others' needs, supply refreshments and rent rooms to hold classes in, send the surplus to HQ. As the ministry got bigger and needed more money for travel and other perks, that changed quickly and drastically.
Some twigs didn't entirely buy into it, but they had to be very careful or heads would've rolled.
As far as those whose experience with TWI was absolutely wonderful, perfect, fabulous, and completely godly in every way, I'm really glad for you! If you are not presently active with TWI, I would encourage you to return to the fold of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word, where hopefully you will find others likeminded with you. I would encourage you to remember to bring your paycheck stub to be checked by your leadership every payday, so s/he can help you make sure your free will donation is sufficient for God to at least spit in your direction.
That is what a former staff member told me he was required to do his last few months in TWI. He is reputable and honest, and I am protecting his name because to my knowledge he doesn't post here.
I believe it was Digitalis, who used to post here and at one time was an HFC coordinator, who told me a bout the pay stub check.
I also remember the concept being discussed back in my day. It was all about the dollar folks. My church and others will ask if you tithe on occasion--but they usually take your word for it either way.
IF a person still wonders if TWI was a cult the constant one way flow of money from bottom to top, with little trickling down the other way, certainly is one of the key pieces of evidence, to support that idea that it was.
This is hyperbole, right? They didn't really ask for paycheck stubs?
yes, during a span of time they did. they also held investigations where they'd isolate one person to inquire about why they thought another person was only tithing a certain amount.
Thanks so much for the independent confirmations. I haven't talked to these folks in quite a while, though we used to live in the same town, and in fact attended the same church for a while. He was on staff but not WC, participated in music ministry, and he and his wife are fine folks indeed. His name was mentioned on a thread a while back as one of the best musicians in TWI with a trained professional voice.
That's all I'm saying. But he told me about the paycheck thing. It may have only happened to those whom the MOG and his allies suspected of not giving the required percentage of ABS, or maybe there weren't enough godly spit-blobs surrounding them and that aroused the suspicion of their leadership.
When I was in Californey, I worked as an event photographer and tried to hire people from the fellowship I was in, for a while, as assistants (help set up lights, scream at the drunks, work the table, shoot candids while I shot formal ports etc etc etc) and although I was NUTTIN'...not an HFC or anything...I was required to call the LC (I won't mention his name, but it was the same as that of a 6 foot invisible rabbit) and report not only what I made, but what I paid my assistants...he even wanted to know how much we took in for the company I was subbing for. He wanted more details than the company did.
Nosey bastard.
Anyway, after a couple of months of all that nonsense, I quit using "believers" and got college kids to do that instead, like I had before. I got real sick, real fast, of his BS, and the college kids were a LOT more fun, learned faster, and were easier to work with.
This is as good a place as any to put this news clip. We hear how paranoid some of TWI leadership was ... like CG checking his car for bombs. Of course I'm not sure they quite qualified as paranoid scizophrenics, but possibly, and this clip offers suggestions to help them. In The Know: Is The Government Spying On Paranoid Schizophrenics Enough?
In 1986, my pal and I, who had a 3-Twig area, decided it was insane to send the ABS to HQ, when our local fellowships had single moms and others who were chasing disconnect notices and med/grocery bills. We decided where to stand on the issue, got some guff from the BC's, but support from Jo& Guar!n! (LC). The area was growing until the Tape with CG blaming the WC for all of the ministry's problems. We left the area shortly thereafter, but there was still an unaffiliated fellowship.
We hear how paranoid some of TWI leadership was ...
I remember being paranoid myself actually. Over reacting to every day occurences and deeming them "spiritual" But looking back it all seems so silly now.
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rascal
Shoot I had to pay for those stupid money orders and stamps to send it in every week...geeze what a dufus I was :(
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GeorgeStGeorge
Just a hunch, but I bet the fact that everyone left was used to show how spiritually off they were (not how spiritually off the leader was!).
George
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waysider
Well, golly, gee.
How about the fact that he made this statement
("Keep it in your pants.")
to hundreds, maybe thousands of WOWs.
What he said/ What he did.
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waysider
Each Twig is self-supporting, self-propagating and self-governing in cooperation with its respective Branch as each Branch is to its respective Limb, as each Limb is to its respective Trunk, as each Trunk is to the Root of the Way.
----------The Way Tree class-----1974.
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potato
I was pretty new at the time, but didn't abs once upon a time go from twig to branch to limb to root? I don't know if I'm recalling this correctly, but I thought I heard a lcm tirade about having to change it because branch and limb leaders were using too much of the ministry money... this would have been around 1989-90, maybe at WIB (Fresno???), and he made some snide comments about twig welfare systems.
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Tom Strange
In the 70's my twig's ABS was mailed directly to P.O. Box 328, New Knoxville, OH.
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waysider
That's how I remember it also.
As a twig leader, I filled out a form with each twig member's name and ABS.
I think it was blue. Don't remember.
If they paid by check, it was enclosed.
If they paid by cash, I had to get a money order for the total.
This had to come out of my pocket, NOT the ABS.
Horn of plenty monies also had to have a money order, if I remember correctly.
It was then mailed to New Knockwurst.
I paid the postage.(Could NOT come out of ABS.)
The exception to this would be if we had a twig leader's meeting for the branch.
In that circumstance, we turned our paperwork over to the branch secretary rather than mailing it and it was all sent to HQ en masse thus saving postage.
That was in the early to mid '70s.
We helped each other out quite a bit with clothes and food, etc.
This all came from individuals and twigs, NOT from HQ.
Even this was discouraged(but not forbidden) as time went on.
We were told we were hurting the recipients by removing the burden of believing from them.
Coffee, cups, sugar, etc. was donated by individuals or twigs.
It was NOT to come out of branch "love offerings".
In other words:
What went up, never came back down.
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WhiteDove
No I believe it was in 87 0r 88 during Bob Win*garner's brief stint as the Limb Leader. the other where we lived was in 74. But yes I would agree from around here at least there were few incidents. Which was why we always had the Twig Pig and yes I heard about it but it did not deter me. When they switched to the beta format and were promoting buying machines we bought the first one in the area from the Pig money. Funny no one ever complained about using it ,nor where the money came from was never a problem then.
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WhiteDove
Our ABS went to the branch and was used there, then to the Way of Kansas and was used, then what was left to the Way Int. Until around 1974 then it was all centralized to Ohio. I think we bought too many pizza's
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happyheart
Thanks Potato, I'm glad to be here.
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potato
this might be what had The Forehead so ticked off... part of it anyway... he mentioned abs not making it to the root from the branches and limbs.
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happyheart
At the time, I guess it was a horror story because it was well, horrifying. But it was a long time ago and I now have the advantage of looking back on this event that changed the course of my life through different eyes. At the time, I really believed that we should go to our leaders with everything. Interestingly before I did, another believer warned me to be careful who I shared my heart with. I agreed with this believer, yet when the time came I talked to this leader even though alarm bells were going off in my head. I really wanted what she was portraying to be true-so I went for it and then Bam! But I was at least able to move and get away from this person. The next year people who had "issue's" in this area were told to stay so they could be under the over sight of this awful couple. Eeeesh!
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happyheart
What they said what they did, this topic got me thinking about a post I saw here on GS. A woman and her son had been treated visciously by a leader and then M&AD. From what she said, I'm pretty sure I know who this leader was. These leaders had a son who ended up being M&AD so they resigned because they refused to M&A their own son. Couldn't practice what they preached. Hopefully they changed for the better after they saw what it was like to be in someone elses shoes. I don't know what happened to them.
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WordWolf
Maybe they learned.
Alarmingly large numbers of people who left twi DIDN'T.
(Most, I think, DID learn, either immediately or eventually.)
"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out." - Hans Neimoller (translated.)
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happyheart
That's deep. And how true. I'm going to have to look up Hans Neimoller.
Thanks Wordwolf.
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Watered Garden
When I first found WayDale, and subsequently GSC, I was absolutely astounded at the hypocrisy of the BOD and other leadership of TWI. Example: In 1995, we were soundly castigated for flying from Seattle to Ohio for the ROA. I was diabetic and driving straight through would have been hard on me. But did I really need an excuse?
Then I find out that the BOD regularly took vacations to the Bahamas and nice places like that. Did they drive? I don't think so. Did they put themselves into hardship to save money to be used for the outreach of God's Word? Were they more deserving than the rest of us?
As far as ABS goes, Waysider is right - it was supposed to be used for the twig to be self-supporting. This was supposed to be the official ABS, self-supporting, take care of each others' needs, supply refreshments and rent rooms to hold classes in, send the surplus to HQ. As the ministry got bigger and needed more money for travel and other perks, that changed quickly and drastically.
Some twigs didn't entirely buy into it, but they had to be very careful or heads would've rolled.
As far as those whose experience with TWI was absolutely wonderful, perfect, fabulous, and completely godly in every way, I'm really glad for you! If you are not presently active with TWI, I would encourage you to return to the fold of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word, where hopefully you will find others likeminded with you. I would encourage you to remember to bring your paycheck stub to be checked by your leadership every payday, so s/he can help you make sure your free will donation is sufficient for God to at least spit in your direction.
That is what a former staff member told me he was required to do his last few months in TWI. He is reputable and honest, and I am protecting his name because to my knowledge he doesn't post here.
God bless.
WG
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Twinky
This is hyperbole, right? They didn't really ask for paycheck stubs?
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templelady
I believe it was Digitalis, who used to post here and at one time was an HFC coordinator, who told me a bout the pay stub check.
I also remember the concept being discussed back in my day. It was all about the dollar folks. My church and others will ask if you tithe on occasion--but they usually take your word for it either way.
IF a person still wonders if TWI was a cult the constant one way flow of money from bottom to top, with little trickling down the other way, certainly is one of the key pieces of evidence, to support that idea that it was.
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potato
yes, during a span of time they did. they also held investigations where they'd isolate one person to inquire about why they thought another person was only tithing a certain amount.
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Watered Garden
Thanks so much for the independent confirmations. I haven't talked to these folks in quite a while, though we used to live in the same town, and in fact attended the same church for a while. He was on staff but not WC, participated in music ministry, and he and his wife are fine folks indeed. His name was mentioned on a thread a while back as one of the best musicians in TWI with a trained professional voice.
That's all I'm saying. But he told me about the paycheck thing. It may have only happened to those whom the MOG and his allies suspected of not giving the required percentage of ABS, or maybe there weren't enough godly spit-blobs surrounding them and that aroused the suspicion of their leadership.
WG
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Ron G.
Twinky...
When I was in Californey, I worked as an event photographer and tried to hire people from the fellowship I was in, for a while, as assistants (help set up lights, scream at the drunks, work the table, shoot candids while I shot formal ports etc etc etc) and although I was NUTTIN'...not an HFC or anything...I was required to call the LC (I won't mention his name, but it was the same as that of a 6 foot invisible rabbit) and report not only what I made, but what I paid my assistants...he even wanted to know how much we took in for the company I was subbing for. He wanted more details than the company did.
Nosey bastard.
Anyway, after a couple of months of all that nonsense, I quit using "believers" and got college kids to do that instead, like I had before. I got real sick, real fast, of his BS, and the college kids were a LOT more fun, learned faster, and were easier to work with.
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rhino
This is as good a place as any to put this news clip. We hear how paranoid some of TWI leadership was ... like CG checking his car for bombs. Of course I'm not sure they quite qualified as paranoid scizophrenics, but possibly, and this clip offers suggestions to help them.
In The Know: Is The Government Spying On Paranoid Schizophrenics Enough?
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cinderpelt
In 1986, my pal and I, who had a 3-Twig area, decided it was insane to send the ABS to HQ, when our local fellowships had single moms and others who were chasing disconnect notices and med/grocery bills. We decided where to stand on the issue, got some guff from the BC's, but support from Jo& Guar!n! (LC). The area was growing until the Tape with CG blaming the WC for all of the ministry's problems. We left the area shortly thereafter, but there was still an unaffiliated fellowship.
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happyheart
(qoute)
We hear how paranoid some of TWI leadership was ...
I remember being paranoid myself actually. Over reacting to every day occurences and deeming them "spiritual" But looking back it all seems so silly now.
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