Well when Tom, or Chuck is the character I think ... when he comes back, he apologizes to the guy that lost his wife ... he apologizes for not being there for him.
And he apologizes to the girl, he says he never should have gotten on that plane, and of course they show how driven he was toward his career. And he leaves that gift that looked like a ring box, before he flew off to meet "his fate".
But then he drives off and seems almost optomistic about what the next tide might bring in ...And he says that package kept him alive ... (though he looked at the picture of "his girl"). but then the cute girl that was the recipient of that package he brought in, he just drives away from her too.
So maybe some just prefer to wait for the next tide ... I'm not sure exactly what it all is saying ... but it is just a movie ...
I've been haunted by that stupid movie for the last few days now.
It was a lot better written than I remember. Or, maybe I'm just reading more into it. Like the food that they provided for his "Welcome Home" party. Fish, crab, and assorted other seafood. Well-meaning, good-hearted, and ultimately thoughtless and inappropriate (sorta like the post a couple back). And then in the end I noticed he had a new Wilson Volleyball in the truck with him.
And there he was, at a crossroads, literally as well as figuratively. Should he follow the horny floozy back to her home? Or head off and rekindle his relationship with Wilson? Myself, I think I'd have to go with Wilson.
Jeezus, a relationship just isn't worth the effort, is it? All the compromising, cajoling, walking on eggs and all, just so you don't have to watch "Grey's Anatomy" alone? Feh...
"What's it all about Alfie? Is it just for the moment we live?" So what happens if the answer (as seems most likely) is "YES!"?
I'm not quite sure. "Meaningful" things aren't all that meaningful after awhile. And sooner or later we're all dead anyway. Gee, perky thought, no?
And why am I writing any of this anyway? Mostly 'cause talking to the cats doesn't seem to help - them or me.
Maybe you're right dooj. I should just buy a goddam diary...
Maybe you could try embracing the idea that being alone is OK and has benefits.
I only give that as a suggestion of another perspective to consider. Not saying it is right, wrong, a way or the way. Just something to consider.
I have found that I prefer to live alone (i.e. without other humans in the house. I do have dogs and a cat) and do things alone. I reject the idea that a middle aged single person is pathetic or a loser. I see lots of people my age desparately miserable with who they became legally entangled with, but choose to stay in the situation despit their profession of disappointment, misery, pain, etc. That doesn't make sense to me.
My youngest sister is also single. My dad refers to us as spinsters or old maids. He seems to be the one who is uncomfortable with having single daughters. My sister and I enjoy our lives and don't feel like we are missing out on anything. Especially when friends call us to cry on our shoulders about the most recent foul deed by their partner.
Good luck and peace to you. Give my best to Wilson.
In the movie, the dentist that married his wife was Dr. Spalding, I think. I'm sure there is some intended comparison there, tohugh I'm not quite clear what it is.
He was the love of her life, but he married wilson, and she married spalding?
My psychologist cousin said something about how humans are social animals ... so it seems we do thrive on interaction. Even marooned, Chuck found his in Wilson, and he argued with Wilson. The girl found hers in spalding, and in the only scene in the movie with her and him, she was arguing by the car, about going in to see Chuck.
Is it just the human condition? Man thriving on controversy? The game of life, where we love to compete?
So find the level of competition you are comfortable with, and the game you like to play?
Of course there is more to it than that ... but just some thoughts ...
And why am I writing any of this anyway? Mostly 'cause talking to the cats doesn't seem to help - them or me.
Maybe you're right dooj. I should just buy a goddam diary...
Hey George... I never meant for you to "just buy a goddam diary..." I just felt the deeply personal nature of what you had written. I realized that you weren't really asking for a comment, yet to ignore it seemed just as wrong - so I simply tried to acknowlege your post for what it was - personal.
I'm really starting to sound like a grumpy old man, ain't I?
I used to wonder where those guys came from, now I know. Take one insecure, pimply-faced, teenaged boy add 40 years of monotony and occasional disappointment and - Voila! - one grumpy old man.
Yeah, I guess I'm not really plowing any new ground here, am I WaySider? Existential dread is about as old as human thought. I'm certainly not terribly unique in my thinking, that's fer shur.
And Scout, I know a bit of where you're coming from. I know I enjoy MY company much more than BAD company. There are limits to what I'll endure for companionship. But I DO tend to feel like a farking loser when I'm invited to someone's house for dinner, or to a party. Here's everybody with a family and friends and whatnot, and then there's me. The token jerkoff, invited as an act of charity. It's always awkward and uncomfortable - well, except in Japan. There we don't communicate well enough to know who's a jerkoff and who isn't. Beneficial ne?
Maybe it's just all the years of propoganda about married life that we need to overcome. So much ink has been spilled promoting the "happily every after" concept, that it's seared into our collective consciousness, I fear. That, and the realization that all my best years are behind me. That's the hard pill to swallow.
Ever so slowly, the harsh reality that my best days are as good as I'll ever get, and I likely won't even get any that good anymore. It's sorta disheartening. Getting old is fer the birds. Jeezus, why didn't somebody tell us it was gonna suck?
George, you are not old!!!! Ok, so you can barely walk or remember things. Everything is going to gravity. Thats the fun of living in the twilight years.....
My words of wisdom here is.....you make what you want out of life. If you think this is it and nothing will be happy again then so be it.
I know I started a relationship later in life and I don't really believe in "love" like the romance novels but I do beleive that you can have a best friend and companion. And I have to say that not everything is about good sex either. Or beauty. As we get older who cares if someone is good looking or not? (well, I wouldn't want someone that slobbers all over the place though either....hehe) Its whats on the inside of that person that is so important.
When I divorced and was alone for a couple of years I hated to be by myself. I tried everything to have people around me. And always felt like the fifth wheel, until I started really getting to know me for me. What did I want out of this life? Then I started enjoying being by myself. And that is when I met Bob. The most kind and generous person I know. We were just friends at first. Never thought it would turn to love. But it was a growing love. I don't think I would have appreciated him if I didn't have that growing and alone time.
Take it as a learning time. But, George it can get better!!!!!
That, and the realization that all my best years are behind me. That's the hard pill to swallow.
Who are you to plant that on yourself?
How do you know that for sure?
The way I look at it, granted I cant do some of the things that I did when I was younger (would I really [want/i] to anyway?)but I can do alot of different things now that I couldnt come close to grasping then, when the circle narrows in one place it seems to widen in another. I just have to figure it out. Its like a perpetual crossroads, It helps to move forward and not look back . Wilson could be fine
I have to shut up or i'll start dispensing some of that dreaded advice.
I'm alone most of the time and I LIKE it...
,
My Dad got happily married to his childhood sweetheart at 83.
At 52 I feel as if Im barely getting warmed up.
Who knows if the best is yet to come? Im not closing any of those doors just yet, there is much too far to go before this ride is over
Hope you are doing OK and that it was just holiday blues, lack of sunlight or something else dragging you down temporarily.
Life can be a blast at this point of your life if you can accept the changes that have occurred in your circumstances. Having a relationship end is sad, but not a life sentence for misery. I hope you can find the advice and support network you need to feel better.
I felt continuing despair ( a few months worth, not just a couple of bad days) a couple of years ago for different reasons than yours, but am very grateful for the advice, compassion and other support I received from posters at this site. I read a couple of the books suggested by posters, viewed some websites and took other advice. It made a world of difference. I had to keep working at it, but my life became so mucy better and I can say I am truly happy as a middle aged single person.
Best of luck to you. PM me if you need to. It might take me a few days to answer as I don't check this site more than a couple of times a week these days.
Oh, there's no big drama here Scout, but, as they said in the commercial "thanks for your support".
I think it's just a valid assessment of where life goes. As in - slowly down the toilet. We get slowly older, uglier, and less capable as time goes on. And yes, we can eat more granola, take up Tai Bo or some other dubious regimen, and read more "inspiring" works by Deepak Chopra or Norman Vincent Peale or Frederich Nietzsche or some other equally unstable seer/conman. But the inevitable still looms doesn't it? And for what? I'm starting to wonder.
Religion seems to me to be mostly childish, hopelessly irrational, and ultimately (and somewhat ironically) rooted in selfishness. I refuse to debase myself for another second seeking solice in such pathetic musings. But philosophy is cold comfort as well. Which sorta leaves me with day to day reality. Feh...
I guess I sound a bit more dispondent than I really am. Life's O.K. Hell, I've got good work to do. My health is still reasonble. My kids are happy and healthy. Finances are O.K., and there's no big storm clouds on the horizon, near as I can tell. But the futility of it all gets to me from time to time. That and the boredom.
I don't spose I'll be getting many offers to be the motivational speaker for this group or that, huh? Maybe risk analysis would be more up my alley?
This past holiday i went to the family thing and I realized everyone had a "partner" of some degree or other but me.
I felt like i was out numbered I cant explain it (your really good with words about how it feels) you say your the third wheel at times i can feel like they also invite me out of obligation or to never metion pity for my blight.
no not really they love me IM cerain although it is certainly clear IM the odd (special?) one.
I notice everyone says WE, did this that and then WE and then WE are gonna. I noticed.
they all think IM lonely.
Im not at least i do not think I am. they are convinced I just must be lonely all the time.
I must be searching for the one who is for me all the time and thank god they found theirs, winner and loser thing I think or in the case of some thinking I must beyond hope of "finding the one" like it is my goal and focus in life . it never was my goal or focus to find someone who loves me crap all these years that is why I had them in my life.
and now they do not think it is good enough for me. boy it stings if i let it.
it is kind of weird and sad.
But i look at their life and styles and i cant compare for me Im happier and get to do what i want in life without compromise.
i hear their "stuff" as well, they know i do not get why that has to happen that way so maybe the seek conversations with those who get why they must be miserable because in the end it has to be better, than God forbid ending up alone.
bottom line is im in middle age and the odds are if i settle down I will be helping another through a medical crises or a his childrens issue of which i have zero desire to share in my rusty golden days.
so i will be alone till I die most probably, invited to get together and be the one and only. I will brush my hair for them and put on clean undies and smile and listen to the dribble about how they cant manage because they wont let them a concept I do not get but hear often.
and my rememdy this week is to study study math I am why? I do not know to go over the basic to fine tune my skills . to think.
george this post of your is a wonderful thing to me thank you for sharing.
my daughter gave me the movie cast away for my birthday, and it was NOT funny, because she had just gotten engaged and moving far away.
I do not know but the idea of being away and coming back to find everyone has "moved on" is not healthy for a woman who raised her children and they all are living life now.
my goal was just that and then the youngest gives me that MOVIE!
I think they only knew me as the mom and dad and the work I did and the life i made for us.
and now they are gone and i must be freaking tom hanks alone at a cross roads wondering what the hell to do??
crap maybe I am. i do not know.
I might just stay alive to p#ss them all off as much as they have me in life at times.
i didnt raise them for my entertainment I did what I had to do and it was a fine job and i retired to the mail room I guess.
My sister and I were discussing the musician Amy Winehouse recently. Baby sister loves Amy's music and voice. I had heard that Amy had an amazing voice, but never listened to her music. We listened to one of her songs and I agreed that she does have an incredible voice, but commented that it is sad that she is so bent on destroying herself and heading to a premature death. Baby sis asked me why I thought it was sad? Why I did I see it as sad that a person exercises their right to spend their life as they choose even if that means shortening their life?
I guess that's why I love spending time with Baby sis. We discuss things that challenge us, make us rethink what we have blindly accepted, try on different perspectives, admit that there are other ways of facing life than the conventional, that we are not all carbon copies of the Ward and June Cleaver prototype.
Does one person have the right to attempt to modify the course of another person's destiny? Does a larger community have a vested interest in keeping everyone alive to a ripe old age no matter the emotional cost to the individual? I don't know and don't expect to ever know. But I still feel concern for a person until I find assurance that they are not in excruciating pain being tormented by losses or sadness. I feel a compulsion to find a way to respond to the person. Do I risk intrusion into a person's privacy? Do I violate my belief that each person is a sovreign entity with the inalienable right to choose and control their own destiny? Do I step outside the comfort zone of my stereotypical middle aged spinster script? Who do I pose these questions to that is going to give me a nice pat answer that will usher me squarely back into my comfortable unchallenged existence?
I guess that is one of the comforts of having left the group think cult compound twenty years ago where I thought I had to have a "positive" (?) and definitive answer to every one of life's hard questions/discussions. I guess that is one of the discomforts of having left the group think cult compound twenty years ago where I thought I would find a definitive answer to every one of life's hard questions/discusssions.
Geo,
Don't mean to infringe on your stream of consciousness thread. Feel free to tell me to go start my own. It's just that this is the most engaging and intriguing topic I have found here in awhile and the month of January always makes me more introspective.
Don't mean to infringe on your stream of consciousness thread. Feel free to tell me to go start my own. It's just that this is the most engaging and intriguing topic I have found here in awhile and the month of January always makes me more introspective.
Oh, not at all,
I only started this thread because, as you noted, it's wintertime and we're inside more. And maybe cabin fever was taking hold?
Geoge, since we've talked about life changes, forward and backwards in motion, I get what you are saying.
I think sometimes life is disappointing and then THAT is disappointing, even a shock, especially when last week we were 25 and beautiful and suddenly, we're not so much 25. :unsure:
Our culture places us in catagories, I think. If you are a couple, for instance, there are more social settings where one "fits".
If you have young children still at home, there are more events to share with other parents.
When we reach the places you and I have found ourselves the last years, we sometimes feel like we don't fit anywhere.
Remember the reality of eating a meal alone in front of the television dread?
When Bob died, I was only 36 years old and was quite suddenly the one that, socially, didn't fit. I wasn't part of a couple anymore, so the friends events included me less and less. Much like 'who gets custody of the friends' in the divorce thing. In my situation, I realized it was not me so much as others, when I came to understand that I wasn't receiving invitation because if they saw me, they'd have to actually SAY something, maybe about Bob and that was to be avoided, they thought. Selfishly they felt if they avoided me they might avoid the awkward moment of not seeing Bob. Maybe address their own reality? I don't know.
Singles clubs? Hee Hee those don't really fit either do they? Or the invitation to come for dinner only to find out that they've also invited another single person "who would be perfect for you!"
Each is unique to our situation and yet each is so similiar huh?
Your life is differant now too. Your babies are growing and leaving the nest, your needs have shifted, your social "setting" is at a wierd place.
Life stages are carved in some stone that someone fixed a long time ago and if we don't fit into the mold we feel less than adequate and most often it's not even of our choosing that we landed there!
But it is what it is and we eventually learn to tuck and roll in the right direction, the edges get less sharp, we find our new normal and gain new understanding about where we fit or even if we WANT to fit.
Maybe we always did fit and the rest of the world didn't. Why do we have to adapt to them, why do we have to adjust our lens to see their view.
I liken it to the other stereotypes in our culture. If a women is blond, one might assume she's stupid, if one is not thin, another might assume they're somehow lazy or whatever other judgement follows.
You're not old just 'cuz some list somewhere says you suddenly are when you reach some age.
I have a group of middle aged happily single women. The core group is five of us. We range in age from 44 to 55. We get together at least once a month, have a Christmas get to-gether, celebrate our birthdays together, have play dates for our dogs and do some volunteer work together according to our interests. We joke about being our own Red Hat Society, but since we are all very committment phobic, we have never gotten around to officially signing up for a local chapter. They threw me a 50th birthday and gave me a red hat, but it was more of a joke than anything.
We help each other when any of us need the help. One of our group is job hunting so we are all networking on her behalf. Another needs to find a new apartment because her neighborhood has gotten too dangerous. We are all checking with people we know, work newsletter want ads and other sources. When my mom died a couple of years ago, they sent flowers to the funeral. We have had lots of fun over the years and many great memories.
My very close friend, Lefty, is a man and he attends the larger get-to-gethers where other male friends and family show up. He was the one that kept my 50th birthday party with the a surprise and got me there without giving away the surprise. The other ladies also have platonic male friends, enjoy male company. For some reason none of us have the attention span or the energy to keep up a romantic relationship with men.
Our group began with two of us who met through volunteer work. Another person joined us from that volunteer sector. Then one co-worker after another joined the group. We all have different talents and skills. I am very grateful for the fashion maven who helps me shop when I need new clothes. Same for the wine and food connoisseur and the travel experts. I fix stuff.
Maybe it is easier for women because we form relationships more naturally? I don't know......
But it makes life so much richer, happier and easier to build our own little subculture and invite the coupled humans to our parties and get-togethers. SOmetimes they just invite themselves just because they like to hang out with us... because we are happy and it tends to be contagious.
Just something that has worked for me.... no judging.... not advising..... not trying to fix anybody....just streaming the consciousness of the moment.... Have to sign off and go to the grocery story to get something for supper. Maybe I'll just get pie.... because I want to and I can. Tee hee.
I'm struck by how much our lives and our thoughts end up trodding on paths that have long since become well-worn.
I guess it's hard to be unique when there's been so damned many of us. True visionaries are rare indeed.
Looking over a little blurb about "Death of a Salesman" brought that point home to me. Willy Loman as everyman. As Arthur Miller put it "to excel, to win out over anonymity and meaninglessness, to love and be loved, and above all, perhaps, to count." I guess that's what we're all trying to do, to some extent or other. And despite what Willy's wife Linda may have believed, people don't have to notice, nor will they, much...
Maybe that's why religion has always been so popular. No matter the culture, the climate, the availablity of the necessities of life, religion has always sprung up in every civilization. We've got to have something more to tell us it's not all just a pointless ride into oblivion. And if we can't find it, we'll make it up. And we're loathe to give it up once we've got it, no matter the implausibility of it all. Jesus is my imaginary friend and NOBODY is gonna talk me outta it. Well, if it works for you, I guess...
And, no, I don't think there's a "Red Hat Society" for men. Whatever that is. If just doesn't sound like the kinda thing men do. Men don't comment on(or much notice) what other men wear, how they fix their hair, how their relationships are going, or much else that women seem want to do. So organizations for men generally revolve around drinking or playing or watching some game. Not much my speed either, I'm afraid.
Another disjointed thought that's been running through my head lately. I often hear that marriage is "hard work".
I never much believed that myself. I've always thought, if I'm gonna work hard, I'm gonna get paid for it. Marriage should be a respite from all that. Then I realized that it was always WOMEN who said that. Always. It seems to be a well-entrenched belief on the distaff side. Men don't generally espouse that idea much, though, from what I can tell.
Kinda makes me wonder if maybe women really don't like being married all that much once they really get a taste of it. It turns into just another goddammed job. That would explain all the women who seem to take off once the kids are grown.
Men go buy a yellow Corvette, and women dump their husbands. I guess that's life as it's supposed to be? Seems right...
some omen stay in the misery because of money or habit or stubborn will to make darn sure he doesnt win .
hard to explain why tho I watch a relationship like this carry on for almost 50 years now.
no they do not fight, no one cares enough to fight about it anything anymore, they live together know one another well and appear to have a marriage that lasted the duration of time, something to congratulate the people say...
I look at them and think i may be alone and lonely and very unsure of tommorrow but that to me isnt really living anymore either.
i met this couple they met late in life and married for the first time for both , except for the last five to ten she went demented and a peck on the cheek and a giggle once a day was as good as it was for him for years.. Yet he loved her so and she him in her own insane manner knew the love they shared.. his sister came and locked them in the house often so she would not wander the street and get hurt and he took care of her himself and the house well into the 80's till one day he fell and laid on the floor for 4 days.. she couldnt use the phone but she broke out of the locked house was found onthe street.. he died from his injurys not even a year later always insisting she be in the same room as him as crazy as she was and he wouldnt eat till she was served her food.
i do not know george the social worker in this case wanted them to seperate for years so he could get better and she in a locked wing.. he said no i wonder if she would hae done the same? maybe she did.
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waysider
OK, GEO put down the Dovstoyevsky, keep your hands where I can see them, and back away slowly.
Just funnin' with ya.
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rhino
Well when Tom, or Chuck is the character I think ... when he comes back, he apologizes to the guy that lost his wife ... he apologizes for not being there for him.
And he apologizes to the girl, he says he never should have gotten on that plane, and of course they show how driven he was toward his career. And he leaves that gift that looked like a ring box, before he flew off to meet "his fate".
But then he drives off and seems almost optomistic about what the next tide might bring in ...And he says that package kept him alive ... (though he looked at the picture of "his girl"). but then the cute girl that was the recipient of that package he brought in, he just drives away from her too.
So maybe some just prefer to wait for the next tide ... I'm not sure exactly what it all is saying ... but it is just a movie ...
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doojable
George,
Thanks for sharing something so personal that it usually would be found in a journal.
There really aren't any other appropriate words.
Dooj
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George Aar
I've been haunted by that stupid movie for the last few days now.
It was a lot better written than I remember. Or, maybe I'm just reading more into it. Like the food that they provided for his "Welcome Home" party. Fish, crab, and assorted other seafood. Well-meaning, good-hearted, and ultimately thoughtless and inappropriate (sorta like the post a couple back). And then in the end I noticed he had a new Wilson Volleyball in the truck with him.
And there he was, at a crossroads, literally as well as figuratively. Should he follow the horny floozy back to her home? Or head off and rekindle his relationship with Wilson? Myself, I think I'd have to go with Wilson.
Jeezus, a relationship just isn't worth the effort, is it? All the compromising, cajoling, walking on eggs and all, just so you don't have to watch "Grey's Anatomy" alone? Feh...
"What's it all about Alfie? Is it just for the moment we live?" So what happens if the answer (as seems most likely) is "YES!"?
I'm not quite sure. "Meaningful" things aren't all that meaningful after awhile. And sooner or later we're all dead anyway. Gee, perky thought, no?
And why am I writing any of this anyway? Mostly 'cause talking to the cats doesn't seem to help - them or me.
Maybe you're right dooj. I should just buy a goddam diary...
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Scout Finch02
Geo,
Maybe you could try embracing the idea that being alone is OK and has benefits.
I only give that as a suggestion of another perspective to consider. Not saying it is right, wrong, a way or the way. Just something to consider.
I have found that I prefer to live alone (i.e. without other humans in the house. I do have dogs and a cat) and do things alone. I reject the idea that a middle aged single person is pathetic or a loser. I see lots of people my age desparately miserable with who they became legally entangled with, but choose to stay in the situation despit their profession of disappointment, misery, pain, etc. That doesn't make sense to me.
My youngest sister is also single. My dad refers to us as spinsters or old maids. He seems to be the one who is uncomfortable with having single daughters. My sister and I enjoy our lives and don't feel like we are missing out on anything. Especially when friends call us to cry on our shoulders about the most recent foul deed by their partner.
Good luck and peace to you. Give my best to Wilson.
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rhino
In the movie, the dentist that married his wife was Dr. Spalding, I think. I'm sure there is some intended comparison there, tohugh I'm not quite clear what it is.
He was the love of her life, but he married wilson, and she married spalding?
My psychologist cousin said something about how humans are social animals ... so it seems we do thrive on interaction. Even marooned, Chuck found his in Wilson, and he argued with Wilson. The girl found hers in spalding, and in the only scene in the movie with her and him, she was arguing by the car, about going in to see Chuck.
Is it just the human condition? Man thriving on controversy? The game of life, where we love to compete?
So find the level of competition you are comfortable with, and the game you like to play?
Of course there is more to it than that ... but just some thoughts ...
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doojable
Hey George... I never meant for you to "just buy a goddam diary..." I just felt the deeply personal nature of what you had written. I realized that you weren't really asking for a comment, yet to ignore it seemed just as wrong - so I simply tried to acknowlege your post for what it was - personal.
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waysider
GEO
I didn't intend to sound cold although I realize now, that is how it came out.
I only meant that the style of writing in your post closely resembled that of Notes From Underground.
Please accept my apology.
waysider
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George Aar
I'm really starting to sound like a grumpy old man, ain't I?
I used to wonder where those guys came from, now I know. Take one insecure, pimply-faced, teenaged boy add 40 years of monotony and occasional disappointment and - Voila! - one grumpy old man.
Yeah, I guess I'm not really plowing any new ground here, am I WaySider? Existential dread is about as old as human thought. I'm certainly not terribly unique in my thinking, that's fer shur.
And Scout, I know a bit of where you're coming from. I know I enjoy MY company much more than BAD company. There are limits to what I'll endure for companionship. But I DO tend to feel like a farking loser when I'm invited to someone's house for dinner, or to a party. Here's everybody with a family and friends and whatnot, and then there's me. The token jerkoff, invited as an act of charity. It's always awkward and uncomfortable - well, except in Japan. There we don't communicate well enough to know who's a jerkoff and who isn't. Beneficial ne?
Maybe it's just all the years of propoganda about married life that we need to overcome. So much ink has been spilled promoting the "happily every after" concept, that it's seared into our collective consciousness, I fear. That, and the realization that all my best years are behind me. That's the hard pill to swallow.
Ever so slowly, the harsh reality that my best days are as good as I'll ever get, and I likely won't even get any that good anymore. It's sorta disheartening. Getting old is fer the birds. Jeezus, why didn't somebody tell us it was gonna suck?
Un uh...
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vickles
George, you are not old!!!! Ok, so you can barely walk or remember things. Everything is going to gravity. Thats the fun of living in the twilight years.....
My words of wisdom here is.....you make what you want out of life. If you think this is it and nothing will be happy again then so be it.
I know I started a relationship later in life and I don't really believe in "love" like the romance novels but I do beleive that you can have a best friend and companion. And I have to say that not everything is about good sex either. Or beauty. As we get older who cares if someone is good looking or not? (well, I wouldn't want someone that slobbers all over the place though either....hehe) Its whats on the inside of that person that is so important.
When I divorced and was alone for a couple of years I hated to be by myself. I tried everything to have people around me. And always felt like the fifth wheel, until I started really getting to know me for me. What did I want out of this life? Then I started enjoying being by myself. And that is when I met Bob. The most kind and generous person I know. We were just friends at first. Never thought it would turn to love. But it was a growing love. I don't think I would have appreciated him if I didn't have that growing and alone time.
Take it as a learning time. But, George it can get better!!!!!
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mstar1
Who are you to plant that on yourself?
How do you know that for sure?
The way I look at it, granted I cant do some of the things that I did when I was younger (would I really [want/i] to anyway?)but I can do alot of different things now that I couldnt come close to grasping then, when the circle narrows in one place it seems to widen in another. I just have to figure it out. Its like a perpetual crossroads, It helps to move forward and not look back . Wilson could be fine
I have to shut up or i'll start dispensing some of that dreaded advice.
I'm alone most of the time and I LIKE it...
,
My Dad got happily married to his childhood sweetheart at 83.
At 52 I feel as if Im barely getting warmed up.
Who knows if the best is yet to come? Im not closing any of those doors just yet, there is much too far to go before this ride is over
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Scout Finch02
Geo,
Hope you are doing OK and that it was just holiday blues, lack of sunlight or something else dragging you down temporarily.
Life can be a blast at this point of your life if you can accept the changes that have occurred in your circumstances. Having a relationship end is sad, but not a life sentence for misery. I hope you can find the advice and support network you need to feel better.
I felt continuing despair ( a few months worth, not just a couple of bad days) a couple of years ago for different reasons than yours, but am very grateful for the advice, compassion and other support I received from posters at this site. I read a couple of the books suggested by posters, viewed some websites and took other advice. It made a world of difference. I had to keep working at it, but my life became so mucy better and I can say I am truly happy as a middle aged single person.
Best of luck to you. PM me if you need to. It might take me a few days to answer as I don't check this site more than a couple of times a week these days.
Scout
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George Aar
Oh, there's no big drama here Scout, but, as they said in the commercial "thanks for your support".
I think it's just a valid assessment of where life goes. As in - slowly down the toilet. We get slowly older, uglier, and less capable as time goes on. And yes, we can eat more granola, take up Tai Bo or some other dubious regimen, and read more "inspiring" works by Deepak Chopra or Norman Vincent Peale or Frederich Nietzsche or some other equally unstable seer/conman. But the inevitable still looms doesn't it? And for what? I'm starting to wonder.
Religion seems to me to be mostly childish, hopelessly irrational, and ultimately (and somewhat ironically) rooted in selfishness. I refuse to debase myself for another second seeking solice in such pathetic musings. But philosophy is cold comfort as well. Which sorta leaves me with day to day reality. Feh...
I guess I sound a bit more dispondent than I really am. Life's O.K. Hell, I've got good work to do. My health is still reasonble. My kids are happy and healthy. Finances are O.K., and there's no big storm clouds on the horizon, near as I can tell. But the futility of it all gets to me from time to time. That and the boredom.
I don't spose I'll be getting many offers to be the motivational speaker for this group or that, huh? Maybe risk analysis would be more up my alley?
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pond
I get you totaly.
I live alone with cats.
This past holiday i went to the family thing and I realized everyone had a "partner" of some degree or other but me.
I felt like i was out numbered I cant explain it (your really good with words about how it feels) you say your the third wheel at times i can feel like they also invite me out of obligation or to never metion pity for my blight.
no not really they love me IM cerain although it is certainly clear IM the odd (special?) one.
I notice everyone says WE, did this that and then WE and then WE are gonna. I noticed.
they all think IM lonely.
Im not at least i do not think I am. they are convinced I just must be lonely all the time.
I must be searching for the one who is for me all the time and thank god they found theirs, winner and loser thing I think or in the case of some thinking I must beyond hope of "finding the one" like it is my goal and focus in life . it never was my goal or focus to find someone who loves me crap all these years that is why I had them in my life.
and now they do not think it is good enough for me. boy it stings if i let it.
it is kind of weird and sad.
But i look at their life and styles and i cant compare for me Im happier and get to do what i want in life without compromise.
i hear their "stuff" as well, they know i do not get why that has to happen that way so maybe the seek conversations with those who get why they must be miserable because in the end it has to be better, than God forbid ending up alone.
bottom line is im in middle age and the odds are if i settle down I will be helping another through a medical crises or a his childrens issue of which i have zero desire to share in my rusty golden days.
so i will be alone till I die most probably, invited to get together and be the one and only. I will brush my hair for them and put on clean undies and smile and listen to the dribble about how they cant manage because they wont let them a concept I do not get but hear often.
and my rememdy this week is to study study math I am why? I do not know to go over the basic to fine tune my skills . to think.
george this post of your is a wonderful thing to me thank you for sharing.
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pond
my daughter gave me the movie cast away for my birthday, and it was NOT funny, because she had just gotten engaged and moving far away.
I do not know but the idea of being away and coming back to find everyone has "moved on" is not healthy for a woman who raised her children and they all are living life now.
my goal was just that and then the youngest gives me that MOVIE!
I think they only knew me as the mom and dad and the work I did and the life i made for us.
and now they are gone and i must be freaking tom hanks alone at a cross roads wondering what the hell to do??
crap maybe I am. i do not know.
I might just stay alive to p#ss them all off as much as they have me in life at times.
i didnt raise them for my entertainment I did what I had to do and it was a fine job and i retired to the mail room I guess.
no one gave me a truck tho.
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Scout Finch02
Glad you are OK.
I guess you are just working things out. Happy New Year.
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George Aar
This was always a favorite song, one by Susannah McCorkle:
http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=track&...guid=&from=
It always sorta spoke to me. I'm not even exactly sure what the lyrics mean, but it seems to communicate regardless...
(a postscript: Ms. McCorkle jumped from her 16th floor apartment window in the spring of 2001 at age 55, she'd had enough I guess)
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Scout Finch02
My sister and I were discussing the musician Amy Winehouse recently. Baby sister loves Amy's music and voice. I had heard that Amy had an amazing voice, but never listened to her music. We listened to one of her songs and I agreed that she does have an incredible voice, but commented that it is sad that she is so bent on destroying herself and heading to a premature death. Baby sis asked me why I thought it was sad? Why I did I see it as sad that a person exercises their right to spend their life as they choose even if that means shortening their life?
I guess that's why I love spending time with Baby sis. We discuss things that challenge us, make us rethink what we have blindly accepted, try on different perspectives, admit that there are other ways of facing life than the conventional, that we are not all carbon copies of the Ward and June Cleaver prototype.
Does one person have the right to attempt to modify the course of another person's destiny? Does a larger community have a vested interest in keeping everyone alive to a ripe old age no matter the emotional cost to the individual? I don't know and don't expect to ever know. But I still feel concern for a person until I find assurance that they are not in excruciating pain being tormented by losses or sadness. I feel a compulsion to find a way to respond to the person. Do I risk intrusion into a person's privacy? Do I violate my belief that each person is a sovreign entity with the inalienable right to choose and control their own destiny? Do I step outside the comfort zone of my stereotypical middle aged spinster script? Who do I pose these questions to that is going to give me a nice pat answer that will usher me squarely back into my comfortable unchallenged existence?
I guess that is one of the comforts of having left the group think cult compound twenty years ago where I thought I had to have a "positive" (?) and definitive answer to every one of life's hard questions/discussions. I guess that is one of the discomforts of having left the group think cult compound twenty years ago where I thought I would find a definitive answer to every one of life's hard questions/discusssions.
Geo,
Don't mean to infringe on your stream of consciousness thread. Feel free to tell me to go start my own. It's just that this is the most engaging and intriguing topic I have found here in awhile and the month of January always makes me more introspective.
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George Aar
Oh, not at all,
I only started this thread because, as you noted, it's wintertime and we're inside more. And maybe cabin fever was taking hold?
Dunno...
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excathedra
hi geo.
at least you get farking invited
can you find a youtube.com version of that song you like ?
anyway, i've only skimmed this thread because i just .... well whatever .....
love,
ex
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Shellon
Geoge, since we've talked about life changes, forward and backwards in motion, I get what you are saying.
I think sometimes life is disappointing and then THAT is disappointing, even a shock, especially when last week we were 25 and beautiful and suddenly, we're not so much 25. :unsure:
Our culture places us in catagories, I think. If you are a couple, for instance, there are more social settings where one "fits".
If you have young children still at home, there are more events to share with other parents.
When we reach the places you and I have found ourselves the last years, we sometimes feel like we don't fit anywhere.
Remember the reality of eating a meal alone in front of the television dread?
When Bob died, I was only 36 years old and was quite suddenly the one that, socially, didn't fit. I wasn't part of a couple anymore, so the friends events included me less and less. Much like 'who gets custody of the friends' in the divorce thing. In my situation, I realized it was not me so much as others, when I came to understand that I wasn't receiving invitation because if they saw me, they'd have to actually SAY something, maybe about Bob and that was to be avoided, they thought. Selfishly they felt if they avoided me they might avoid the awkward moment of not seeing Bob. Maybe address their own reality? I don't know.
Singles clubs? Hee Hee those don't really fit either do they? Or the invitation to come for dinner only to find out that they've also invited another single person "who would be perfect for you!"
Each is unique to our situation and yet each is so similiar huh?
Your life is differant now too. Your babies are growing and leaving the nest, your needs have shifted, your social "setting" is at a wierd place.
Life stages are carved in some stone that someone fixed a long time ago and if we don't fit into the mold we feel less than adequate and most often it's not even of our choosing that we landed there!
But it is what it is and we eventually learn to tuck and roll in the right direction, the edges get less sharp, we find our new normal and gain new understanding about where we fit or even if we WANT to fit.
Maybe we always did fit and the rest of the world didn't. Why do we have to adapt to them, why do we have to adjust our lens to see their view.
I liken it to the other stereotypes in our culture. If a women is blond, one might assume she's stupid, if one is not thin, another might assume they're somehow lazy or whatever other judgement follows.
You're not old just 'cuz some list somewhere says you suddenly are when you reach some age.
When you are 90, I think that's old.
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Scout Finch02
Do men have their version of the Red Hat Society?
I have a group of middle aged happily single women. The core group is five of us. We range in age from 44 to 55. We get together at least once a month, have a Christmas get to-gether, celebrate our birthdays together, have play dates for our dogs and do some volunteer work together according to our interests. We joke about being our own Red Hat Society, but since we are all very committment phobic, we have never gotten around to officially signing up for a local chapter. They threw me a 50th birthday and gave me a red hat, but it was more of a joke than anything.
We help each other when any of us need the help. One of our group is job hunting so we are all networking on her behalf. Another needs to find a new apartment because her neighborhood has gotten too dangerous. We are all checking with people we know, work newsletter want ads and other sources. When my mom died a couple of years ago, they sent flowers to the funeral. We have had lots of fun over the years and many great memories.
My very close friend, Lefty, is a man and he attends the larger get-to-gethers where other male friends and family show up. He was the one that kept my 50th birthday party with the a surprise and got me there without giving away the surprise. The other ladies also have platonic male friends, enjoy male company. For some reason none of us have the attention span or the energy to keep up a romantic relationship with men.
Our group began with two of us who met through volunteer work. Another person joined us from that volunteer sector. Then one co-worker after another joined the group. We all have different talents and skills. I am very grateful for the fashion maven who helps me shop when I need new clothes. Same for the wine and food connoisseur and the travel experts. I fix stuff.
Maybe it is easier for women because we form relationships more naturally? I don't know......
But it makes life so much richer, happier and easier to build our own little subculture and invite the coupled humans to our parties and get-togethers. SOmetimes they just invite themselves just because they like to hang out with us... because we are happy and it tends to be contagious.
Just something that has worked for me.... no judging.... not advising..... not trying to fix anybody....just streaming the consciousness of the moment.... Have to sign off and go to the grocery story to get something for supper. Maybe I'll just get pie.... because I want to and I can. Tee hee.
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George Aar
I'm struck by how much our lives and our thoughts end up trodding on paths that have long since become well-worn.
I guess it's hard to be unique when there's been so damned many of us. True visionaries are rare indeed.
Looking over a little blurb about "Death of a Salesman" brought that point home to me. Willy Loman as everyman. As Arthur Miller put it "to excel, to win out over anonymity and meaninglessness, to love and be loved, and above all, perhaps, to count." I guess that's what we're all trying to do, to some extent or other. And despite what Willy's wife Linda may have believed, people don't have to notice, nor will they, much...
Maybe that's why religion has always been so popular. No matter the culture, the climate, the availablity of the necessities of life, religion has always sprung up in every civilization. We've got to have something more to tell us it's not all just a pointless ride into oblivion. And if we can't find it, we'll make it up. And we're loathe to give it up once we've got it, no matter the implausibility of it all. Jesus is my imaginary friend and NOBODY is gonna talk me outta it. Well, if it works for you, I guess...
And, no, I don't think there's a "Red Hat Society" for men. Whatever that is. If just doesn't sound like the kinda thing men do. Men don't comment on(or much notice) what other men wear, how they fix their hair, how their relationships are going, or much else that women seem want to do. So organizations for men generally revolve around drinking or playing or watching some game. Not much my speed either, I'm afraid.
Another disjointed thought that's been running through my head lately. I often hear that marriage is "hard work".
I never much believed that myself. I've always thought, if I'm gonna work hard, I'm gonna get paid for it. Marriage should be a respite from all that. Then I realized that it was always WOMEN who said that. Always. It seems to be a well-entrenched belief on the distaff side. Men don't generally espouse that idea much, though, from what I can tell.
Kinda makes me wonder if maybe women really don't like being married all that much once they really get a taste of it. It turns into just another goddammed job. That would explain all the women who seem to take off once the kids are grown.
Men go buy a yellow Corvette, and women dump their husbands. I guess that's life as it's supposed to be? Seems right...
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pond
some omen stay in the misery because of money or habit or stubborn will to make darn sure he doesnt win .
hard to explain why tho I watch a relationship like this carry on for almost 50 years now.
no they do not fight, no one cares enough to fight about it anything anymore, they live together know one another well and appear to have a marriage that lasted the duration of time, something to congratulate the people say...
I look at them and think i may be alone and lonely and very unsure of tommorrow but that to me isnt really living anymore either.
i met this couple they met late in life and married for the first time for both , except for the last five to ten she went demented and a peck on the cheek and a giggle once a day was as good as it was for him for years.. Yet he loved her so and she him in her own insane manner knew the love they shared.. his sister came and locked them in the house often so she would not wander the street and get hurt and he took care of her himself and the house well into the 80's till one day he fell and laid on the floor for 4 days.. she couldnt use the phone but she broke out of the locked house was found onthe street.. he died from his injurys not even a year later always insisting she be in the same room as him as crazy as she was and he wouldnt eat till she was served her food.
i do not know george the social worker in this case wanted them to seperate for years so he could get better and she in a locked wing.. he said no i wonder if she would hae done the same? maybe she did.
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