WW: Not that you really need it, but you have my permission to cut and paste what I said. The discussion might get more response if you started it than if I did.
WW: Not that you really need it, but you have my permission to cut and paste what I said. The discussion might get more response if you started it than if I did.
Think about it for a moment.
I'm pretty confident that the same thread with the same title would get more people opening it to read if it was
from you than from me. From me, it's a little predictable. From you, more people will be curious to see
where it's going, which I think would lead to more participation.
Well that would certainly get rid of the pesky women who persist in telling these stories....Seriously....to me it is too much like being banished to Siberia...and then who gets invited? Those abused? women? Everyone??
This is the place to tell the other side of the story.
So, would it be possible to set up a forum for women who were sexually abused and those sympathetic to them, ie, a safe environment? Those with access could have their own passwords and no fear of "hard questions". Just a thought.
johnyouare i believe that ship already sailed and i don't think it was very safe
"But she blessed a lot of people in STL and probably elsewhere. Is all that just meaningless now?"
Regarding the thinking reflected in the sentence above: IMO this is a good example of the black and white thinking Tex and others have pointed out as a characteristic of TWI. It's a characteristic of most fundamentalist groups.
I think the answer is not a simple yes or no. Just because I left TWI and now consider, as Tex does, that mind control was implemented in my indoctrination, doesn't negate the good hearted kindness I extended to people, IMO.
I look back and would like to think most of my actions came from a good heart, that I was trying to do something helpful for others and sometimes I actually DID do something helpful...but often because I was misinformed about what would be the best kind of advice to give, I may have caused more damage than healing in people's lives, i.e. by telling them to renew their minds instead of referring them to a professional counselor. Those instances are my regrets.
Meaning is a big philosophical topic, but in a word, and IMO, the answer is No, the kindnesses were not meaningless. You value the "good", leave the "bad." Determining what was the good and what was the bad is our ongoing challenge and needs to be evaluated carefully and not with a blanket generalization.
johniam, whatever validity your idea might have on its own merits (and it was already tried), coming from you it's a strategy for suppressing the truth. See Rascal's post.
I am certain that suppression IS your motive, and not the welfare of the many women (and marriages, and familes) harmed by Vic Wierwille, TWI's "Who's Yer Daddy" in the Word.
Maybe you should withhold further helpful ideas for Tex until you've read her book for yourself. I'm unconvinced you really intend to do so. Whatever your intentions, I don't think you could go through with it. Your latest "idea" indicates, once again, your mind is already made up.
Well that would certainly get rid of the pesky women who persist in telling these stories....Seriously....to me it is too much like being banished to Siberia...and then who gets invited?
Siberia isnt so bad. If anyone gets banished there, maybe i can see if my wife has some relatives there who can help. :)
A lot of these stories about sexual abuse seem to me as..."from a galaxy far away" because it's so different from the TWI I saw first hand.
Okay. That's probably where I am too, with just a few hints in my own experiences. There is nothing wrong with saying that, as long as we are willing to accept that things happened that we didn't see first hand. If you want to find out what really did happen in that galaxy far away, you go learn from your favorite Jedi Master. If you want to find out what happened in TWI that you didnt know about, you go learn from those who were there.
quote: Well that would certainly get rid of the pesky women who persist in telling these stories....Seriously....to me it is too much like being banished to Siberia...and then who gets invited? Those abused? women? Everyone??
Not at all; the other forums are still available. If this was tried, I never heard of it. Why would I have? I'm certainly not a candidate for that type of forum. Rascal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to discuss something unmolested, then the best way to do this is privately. If you want to tell the world about something, then "the world" includes me, oldies, etc. If there was a forum like I suggested, then ideas could be aired out, tested in a private setting without fear of dispute, THEN if desired, those ideas that stuck could be brought to the other forums. No suppresion at all; quite the contrary.
I thought about it some more and it is possible that when Tex said the lockbox should be unlocked in an environment of safety, that what she had in mind may be an environment controlled by professional people like herself, not something more casual, like this place.
If there was a forum like I suggested, then ideas could be aired out, tested in a private setting without fear of dispute, THEN if desired, those ideas that stuck could be brought to the other forums. No suppresion at all; quite the contrary.
I thought about it some more and it is possible that when Tex said the lockbox should be unlocked in an environment of safety, that what she had in mind may be an environment controlled by professional people like herself, not something more casual, like this place.
I have a feeling that somehow many of these people communicate among themselves privately without need of a forum, or if they use something like that, it is in some private setting away from GS. Just guessing, but my point is that if they need to do such as you suggest, they take the initiative themselves to set things up and/or communicate, not needing you or me to help out.
quote: Well that would certainly get rid of the pesky women who persist in telling these stories....Seriously....to me it is too much like being banished to Siberia...and then who gets invited? Those abused? women? Everyone??
Not at all; the other forums are still available. If this was tried, I never heard of it. Why would I have? I'm certainly not a candidate for that type of forum. Rascal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to discuss something unmolested, then the best way to do this is privately. If you want to tell the world about something, then "the world" includes me, oldies, etc. If there was a forum like I suggested, then ideas could be aired out, tested in a private setting without fear of dispute, THEN if desired, those ideas that stuck could be brought to the other forums. No suppresion at all; quite the contrary.
We shouldn`t HAVE to be afraid of fear or suppression or dispute if it involves our personal experiences in twi. We shouldn`t have our character, our veracity, or our morality called into question by people who don`t like hearing our side of the story.
quote: We shouldn`t HAVE to be afraid of fear or suppression or dispute if it involves our personal experiences in twi. We shouldn`t have our character, our veracity, or our morality called into question by people who don`t like hearing our side of the story.
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johniam
WW: Not that you really need it, but you have my permission to cut and paste what I said. The discussion might get more response if you started it than if I did.
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WordWolf
Think about it for a moment.
I'm pretty confident that the same thread with the same title would get more people opening it to read if it was
from you than from me. From me, it's a little predictable. From you, more people will be curious to see
where it's going, which I think would lead to more participation.
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rascal
Well that would certainly get rid of the pesky women who persist in telling these stories....Seriously....to me it is too much like being banished to Siberia...and then who gets invited? Those abused? women? Everyone??
This is the place to tell the other side of the story.
Tex, I look forward to reading your book.
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excathedra
johnyouare i believe that ship already sailed and i don't think it was very safe
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penworks
"But she blessed a lot of people in STL and probably elsewhere. Is all that just meaningless now?"
Regarding the thinking reflected in the sentence above: IMO this is a good example of the black and white thinking Tex and others have pointed out as a characteristic of TWI. It's a characteristic of most fundamentalist groups.
I think the answer is not a simple yes or no. Just because I left TWI and now consider, as Tex does, that mind control was implemented in my indoctrination, doesn't negate the good hearted kindness I extended to people, IMO.
I look back and would like to think most of my actions came from a good heart, that I was trying to do something helpful for others and sometimes I actually DID do something helpful...but often because I was misinformed about what would be the best kind of advice to give, I may have caused more damage than healing in people's lives, i.e. by telling them to renew their minds instead of referring them to a professional counselor. Those instances are my regrets.
Meaning is a big philosophical topic, but in a word, and IMO, the answer is No, the kindnesses were not meaningless. You value the "good", leave the "bad." Determining what was the good and what was the bad is our ongoing challenge and needs to be evaluated carefully and not with a blanket generalization.
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satori001
"Physician, heal thyself."
johniam, whatever validity your idea might have on its own merits (and it was already tried), coming from you it's a strategy for suppressing the truth. See Rascal's post.
I am certain that suppression IS your motive, and not the welfare of the many women (and marriages, and familes) harmed by Vic Wierwille, TWI's "Who's Yer Daddy" in the Word.
Maybe you should withhold further helpful ideas for Tex until you've read her book for yourself. I'm unconvinced you really intend to do so. Whatever your intentions, I don't think you could go through with it. Your latest "idea" indicates, once again, your mind is already made up.
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Lifted Up
Siberia isnt so bad. If anyone gets banished there, maybe i can see if my wife has some relatives there who can help. :)
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Lifted Up
Okay. That's probably where I am too, with just a few hints in my own experiences. There is nothing wrong with saying that, as long as we are willing to accept that things happened that we didn't see first hand. If you want to find out what really did happen in that galaxy far away, you go learn from your favorite Jedi Master. If you want to find out what happened in TWI that you didnt know about, you go learn from those who were there.
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johniam
quote: Well that would certainly get rid of the pesky women who persist in telling these stories....Seriously....to me it is too much like being banished to Siberia...and then who gets invited? Those abused? women? Everyone??
Not at all; the other forums are still available. If this was tried, I never heard of it. Why would I have? I'm certainly not a candidate for that type of forum. Rascal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to discuss something unmolested, then the best way to do this is privately. If you want to tell the world about something, then "the world" includes me, oldies, etc. If there was a forum like I suggested, then ideas could be aired out, tested in a private setting without fear of dispute, THEN if desired, those ideas that stuck could be brought to the other forums. No suppresion at all; quite the contrary.
I thought about it some more and it is possible that when Tex said the lockbox should be unlocked in an environment of safety, that what she had in mind may be an environment controlled by professional people like herself, not something more casual, like this place.
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Lifted Up
I have a feeling that somehow many of these people communicate among themselves privately without need of a forum, or if they use something like that, it is in some private setting away from GS. Just guessing, but my point is that if they need to do such as you suggest, they take the initiative themselves to set things up and/or communicate, not needing you or me to help out.
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excathedra
you're such a good guy, lifted
--
(i didn't mean anyone else isn't)
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rascal
We shouldn`t HAVE to be afraid of fear or suppression or dispute if it involves our personal experiences in twi. We shouldn`t have our character, our veracity, or our morality called into question by people who don`t like hearing our side of the story.
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johniam
quote: We shouldn`t HAVE to be afraid of fear or suppression or dispute if it involves our personal experiences in twi. We shouldn`t have our character, our veracity, or our morality called into question by people who don`t like hearing our side of the story.
But it's OK for you to attack mine?
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rascal
Never
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satori001
On villains.
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excathedra
thank you satori
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waterbuffalo
Ah, no, but since the discourse brought brilliant satoori out, this is much better!
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excathedra
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excathedra
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