Ah - I see. What kind of fellowship is it then? Sort of a hanging out together with no biblical teachings?
No, it's got a 15-20 minute teaching usually. We have prayer and manifestations, we sing a few songs. A lot of the songs are the same ones you remember from TWI. We take turns on who teaches. Last Tuesday, for example, I taught on renewing your mind to see yourself the way God sees you. I'll going to probably get my notes from that reaching online soon, I'll post a link then.
The impression I get is that Nathan is fellowshipping with CFF, but I could be wrong.
Yep, I do fellowship with CFF. I am in their fellowlaborers program. If you guys don't know about that, it's a "leadership training program." Kind of like a local WOW program, but not exactly the same. They're teaching us a lot of the word, giving us assignments on things to study, and giving us opportunities to teach different places.
Our home fellowship is another opportunity to teach, but the CFF staff doesn't make it out that often, and when they do, they let us know that its just to enjoy the word and the fellowship, not to critique.
We also do a lot of work, mostly helping run cff events, but also things like planting a tree and cleaning out a ladies barn/chicken coop last weekend; her husband had just recently passed away. And we love every bit of the work, both physical and studying the word.
Sorry if I sound like a billboard, I'm trying to give you guys an honest impression of what it is.
I have never thought of CFF as an offshoot of TWI, but according to your site we are. I guess we do have a lot of the old way folks in our group.
And even though I fellowship with CFF and love them just as dearly as my brothers and sisters in TWI, my allegiance is not to CFF. My allegiance is to God first and foremost.
Sorry if I sound like a billboard, I'm trying to give you guys an honest impression of what it is.
I have never thought of CFF as an offshoot of TWI, but according to your site we are. I guess we do have a lot of the old way folks in our group.
And even though I fellowship with CFF and love them just as dearly as my brothers and sisters in TWI, my allegiance is not to CFF. My allegiance is to God first and foremost.
Good for you Nathan! I hope your Christian actions bring joy to your heart for a long time to come. :)
If it changes, be smart enough to go with the flow and get out...before you become eaten up by some of the same bitterness you read about around here! <_<
bitterness??? ...it's that lousy texas cuisine! somebody burned the fromage!
Tom, I think we have to spend a few days at "The Farm"! I'll do the cooking, we'll invite Rhino who seems to have amassed some kind of vintage wine collection, and we'll work on an idea I have before lift off!
HellsBells, why don't you just grab a plane out of Texas and I'll meet you at CDG. Paris is great this time of year!!
Hi there Nathan Friedly!........welcome to the greasespot cafe!........you seem like a very nice young man........thank you for your posts here.......i hope you'll stick around long enough to enjoy some of the many varying theological cusines that our menu has to offer!......i particularly enjoy our house special reality brew.......i find it stimulating and really an "eye-opener" on those hard-to-get-out-of -the-bed-you've-made-for-yourself days!.........i hope you will too.......
your topic here, "A note on forgiving", caught my attention today!..........it has been a topic of particular practical import and impact for many of us who frequent this place.........maybe, as you've "read around" here, you've come across some threads that delve into this same topic?.........if not, check them out........you may find them of interest and/or value.......
your posts on this thread, and on the "tightly wrapped packages" thread, have stirred up some questions in me that i'd like to ask you.......it would be really loving of you to answer them if and when you get a chance.........you mention "the word" many times.........for example,......."god's word", "the true and accurate word", "the accurate word", "speaking the word", "the truth of god's word", etc.,..........what are you referring to when you refer to "the word"??.........what is "the word" in CFF?........
you mentioned that you are in CFF's "fellowlabourers program", which you describe as a "leadersip training program"........i'm wondering, when it comes to "forgiving", i am interested to know if CFF teaches anything about the unique and specific responsibilities of "leaders" in the church of the body of christ, when it comes to their practical application of the doctrines and "processes" of forgiving and forgiveness?..........from my limited understanding of the christian scriptures, it seems that there are demands made of "leaders" in the church regarding such things as repentance for wrongs committed by them towards the believers in their church, which are additional requirements for "leaders" in order to enjoy the forgiveness from the believers who have been wronged, for the wrongs committed against them...........are there??...........i notice that you mention rev. wayne clapp (his name is on the link you provided on the "packages" thread), and quote rev. john nessle..........under whose auspices were these CFF leaders ordained?........do they have formal seminary training or credentials from an accredited christian college or seminary?.......do they have formal training in biblical exegesis, or textual criticism?........do they have formal training in greek, hebrew, aramaic or latin?.........are they thus qualified to provide you "fellowlabourers" with "the true and accurate word" in your leadership training? ......what formal, professional training do they have in christian ministry or counselling?.........do they ahere to the "principles of biblical research" as taught in and by the way international?........were they "leaders" in TWI??..........if so, have they apologized to the believers they may have wronged during their time as TWI leaders?.........do they need to?..........did they teach you "fellowlabourers" to "lump loving and forgiving in together" as you stated you do?......... if so, what is their scriptural basis for this "lumping together"?..........or is this just something you have developed on your own?
you stated that you never considered CFF to be a TWI OFFSHOOT...........but, since visiting the greasespot, you may now consider CFF to indeed be an OFFSHOOT of TWI.......beacause, as you said, "i guess we do have a lot of the old way folks in our group"...........may i offer my opinion that, it is not WHO is in your group which makes it a TWI OFFSHOOT, but rather, WHAT is taught and promulgated by CFF leaders, which makes it an OFFSHOOT of TWI........what do you think?........also, the "original manuscript" of about 70% of the content of the PFAL BOOK that you say you're trying to get a copy of can be found in E.W. Bullinger's book "HOW TO ENJOY THE BIBLE"........which, imho, is a more expertly and finely written book, authored by an eminently more qualified scholar than vp!.........i'm pretty sure your dad has a copy lying around somewhere........or if not,.........surely your CFF bookstore or library will have one.......check it out, nathan.....it really is a much better read!
i sure hope you don't get defensive from this "barrage" of questions!.........please don't, or you'll miss the point of my asking them..........hope you won't mind doing the work it may take to answer these questions..........i really do appreciate you taking the time to think about them and answer them.......it should provide a good learning opportunity for both of us, don't you think??........thanks again for this thread , and your posts!.........nice meeting you here at the greasespot......come and sit a spell..........enjoy our reality brew!.........the first cup's on me!!..........................peace.
I think most of us here have forgiven those who hurt us in twi. The question is have they forgiven us. Nope, notta, zip.
My wife and I were leadership and we did truly care for and help people. When we left, we left quietly.
We heard after we left that the leadership lied about us telling all the believers that we sent negative letters around which we never did. All the believers were instructed not to talk to us or phone us. People we had helped deliver from great grief and destruction. People we had helped bring up their children, sat with them in hospitals, married them. None of them ever called us or ever asked us how we were doing. Perhaps it's them who have the problems.
We're just trying to figure out how we can get back into the life God really wanted for us without all the oppression, guilt, and fear.
Even Jesus Christ himself would have called them hypocrites as he did all those who were unloving in his day.
They can do what they want to. As for me I'll live a better life.
We heard after we left that the leadership lied about us telling all the believers that we sent negative letters around which we never did. All the believers were instructed not to talk to us or phone us.
in the areas I lived, that was what they did to everyone who left. I'm sorry that happened to you, brother P. Bear.
I no longer believe the things that were said about anyone who left or was told to leave. I've seen the lies revealed too many times now.
What a comfort to know that there are still really loving people out there who are willing to come here and point out where we're falling short. Oh, the relief!
Just wanted to add my two cents. I agree with what you have exhorted the believers here to do, love and forgive! But, you cannot forget that their was one person with whom Job did not pray for.
Anyway, there are a few things people need to know about cffm:
When John Shroyer pased away, who jumped in to take over as president?
Their teachings don't all agree with what Dr. taught, and in fact disagree sharply at points!
Also, why don't they supply a link to TWI?
Just woundering :unsure:
Just do yourself a big favor and don't just believe everything you hear!
Hi folks, I just found this site while looking for the lyrics to the old kids song "Romans 10:9 and 10 I believed it once and then..." (thanks, VeganXTC); but reading around, the topic of forgiveness came to my mind, so I thought I'd share a bit with you.
Quite a few seemingly well-intentioned folks come by here from time to time, and after reading a few posts bring up the topic of forgiveness. They quote a few scriptures like you did, usually ones that talk about bitterness and forgiveness, being judgmental, etc. By and large, these folks are usually associated with an offshoot or group of some kind that pretty much hangs on to the basic teachings of VPW/TWI in one form or another. I see you are no exception.
Before I get started I should point out that this is meant to be loving encouragement in Gods word. If you get feeling defensive at any point, then I apologize for not writing clearly enough. My intent is not to attack anyone, so if you feel attacked then I encourage you to take a step back and try to determine why.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant this to be "loving encouragement", but if you take a step back yourself you may see that it may not be preceived that way by many here -- and for good reason.
I grew up in The Way. There's no way I can imagine knowing as much of Gods word as I do without that upbringing. That's not to say I know everything, just that I am very appreciative of what I do know.
Growing up in the way, you were taught and "the word" bound by the strict framework built by TWI/VPW. Have you ever studied the scriptures yourself outside of the constraints of TWI/VPW/CFF influence? I coulud be wrong, but I doubt that you have. For many of us that have, we can't imagine how we possibly held on to some of the the things taught in TWI as "the word" as long as we did. We have found many basic teachings to be seriously flawed or downright wrong and damaging. So what you believe to be "the word" some here may not.
I'm no longer a member of the way, but I love them dearly. They are my brothers and sisters. Anything, ANYTHING they did wrong to me, I forgive them for. Holding a grudge does nothing to them and nothing positive to you.
Is holding someone accountable for evil deeds the same thing as holding a grudge? Is discussing what happened and why it happened a sign of bitterness or lack of forgiveness? Is it "hating your brother" to point out and discuss the errors of a "brother" who damaged the lives of many of your other brothers and sisters? Is is strife to challenge or disagree with the teachings a famous teacher?
You are getting a free pass here because you are new, but you may have noticed that the posts are starting to ratchet up already. They will get more to the point soon. You affiliation with CFF will soon land you a full fledged Weirwille Worshiper Title soon enough. No need to try to explain that you are not, it won't do any good. Enjoy the coffee while they are still offering it for free .........you'll be paying for it soon :blink:
You are getting a free pass here because you are new, but you may have noticed that the posts are starting to ratchet up already.
Dove, since you are predicting if not instigating a confrontational scenario, can you be specific so Nathan might understand fully?
They will get more to the point soon. Your affiliation with CFF will soon land you a full fledged Weirwille Worshiper Title soon enough. No need to try to explain that you are not, it won't do any good.
If the term "Wierwille Worshipper" comes up, (other than your use of it), I would be rather surprised. I doubt that Nathan is a "Wierwille Worshiper", any more than the folks here that discuss the events of TWI and the actions of many involved, are bitter, unforgiving , brother haters, causing strife.
He seems like a well-intentioned man that just may need take a closer look at what really goes on here.
Hi Nathan...welcome to the Grease Spot Cafe!...Welcome to a place where people are encouraged to think...and to ask questions.
Don't be disapointed if there are some folks here who disagree with you...in fact, you should embrace it! Celebrate the differences in what other people think and believe. Personally, I shun gurus...I discovered years ago that that most of them are really screwed up and had no business telling other people what to believe...especially if their "training" came from a cult...but that's just me.
We have a wide variety of folks here...atheists, agnostics, Christians, and "others"...there are even some folks here who still believe many of the cult teaching that are endorsed by twi and their many splinter groups...but don't worry, we usually just laugh at them.
However, I am offering, for a limited time...my own special class entitled "The truth is ever present and I know it better than you"...A one time donation of $300 is required in order to be blessed by the greatness of what I have to say...not everyone here takes my class...but, after reading your posts, I thought you might consider it....thanks and again, welcome.
Where can I send you my money? I want to know about the "Ever Present Truth And You" that you offer. I know you don't have any serious religious credentials but that doesn't deter me from wanting to give you my money. After I take your "own special class" can you send me out to do missionary work so I can get blessed? I'd love doing door to door proselytizing for you.
If you don't think I'm worthy, I have a sister that loves Drambuie.
Hiya Goey!...........i don't presume to speak for rev. groucho, but......your obvious lack of a true commitment to the word the reverend teaches, as demonstrated by your lackluster "spiritual" performance of late, has made it necessary for groucho (at the behest of his board of trustees) to evoke a greater level of commitment from future students of his class,.....by raising the required donation level to $300!!..........that should substantially raise the level of believing groucho believes is requisite for his students to get the most out of the best of the class!!!...........your questions will be answered at the end of the class!!!..........you can still take it as many times as you want, since you are a grad of the e-bay version!!.......................peace.
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oldiesman
Yes it is an offshoot.
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Nero
Well, it's good to see that they still get along at least. Even though they are in different churches and stuff. =)
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Nathan Friedly
No, it's got a 15-20 minute teaching usually. We have prayer and manifestations, we sing a few songs. A lot of the songs are the same ones you remember from TWI. We take turns on who teaches. Last Tuesday, for example, I taught on renewing your mind to see yourself the way God sees you. I'll going to probably get my notes from that reaching online soon, I'll post a link then.
Yep, I do fellowship with CFF. I am in their fellowlaborers program. If you guys don't know about that, it's a "leadership training program." Kind of like a local WOW program, but not exactly the same. They're teaching us a lot of the word, giving us assignments on things to study, and giving us opportunities to teach different places.
Our home fellowship is another opportunity to teach, but the CFF staff doesn't make it out that often, and when they do, they let us know that its just to enjoy the word and the fellowship, not to critique.
We also do a lot of work, mostly helping run cff events, but also things like planting a tree and cleaning out a ladies barn/chicken coop last weekend; her husband had just recently passed away. And we love every bit of the work, both physical and studying the word.
Sorry if I sound like a billboard, I'm trying to give you guys an honest impression of what it is.
I have never thought of CFF as an offshoot of TWI, but according to your site we are. I guess we do have a lot of the old way folks in our group.
And even though I fellowship with CFF and love them just as dearly as my brothers and sisters in TWI, my allegiance is not to CFF. My allegiance is to God first and foremost.
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potato
I think it's considered an offshoot because it adheres to the basic doctrines laid out by vpw.
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Bumpy
Good for you Nathan! I hope your Christian actions bring joy to your heart for a long time to come. :)
If it changes, be smart enough to go with the flow and get out...before you become eaten up by some of the same bitterness you read about around here! <_<
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Tom Strange
bitterness??? ...it's that lousy french cuisine! somebody burned the fromage!
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Bumpy
Tom, I think we have to spend a few days at "The Farm"! I'll do the cooking, we'll invite Rhino who seems to have amassed some kind of vintage wine collection, and we'll work on an idea I have before lift off!
HellsBells, why don't you just grab a plane out of Texas and I'll meet you at CDG. Paris is great this time of year!!
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Nero
Bitterness? You mean the lively discussion? ;)
Paris? Can I come?
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Tom Strange
sure nero! ...I think we're having snails! :(
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Nero
snails? is that like eating frog? like eatting a little chicken - who happens to be living in a shell?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi there Nathan Friedly!........welcome to the greasespot cafe!........you seem like a very nice young man........thank you for your posts here.......i hope you'll stick around long enough to enjoy some of the many varying theological cusines that our menu has to offer!......i particularly enjoy our house special reality brew.......i find it stimulating and really an "eye-opener" on those hard-to-get-out-of -the-bed-you've-made-for-yourself days!.........i hope you will too.......
your topic here, "A note on forgiving", caught my attention today!..........it has been a topic of particular practical import and impact for many of us who frequent this place.........maybe, as you've "read around" here, you've come across some threads that delve into this same topic?.........if not, check them out........you may find them of interest and/or value.......
your posts on this thread, and on the "tightly wrapped packages" thread, have stirred up some questions in me that i'd like to ask you.......it would be really loving of you to answer them if and when you get a chance.........you mention "the word" many times.........for example,......."god's word", "the true and accurate word", "the accurate word", "speaking the word", "the truth of god's word", etc.,..........what are you referring to when you refer to "the word"??.........what is "the word" in CFF?........
you mentioned that you are in CFF's "fellowlabourers program", which you describe as a "leadersip training program"........i'm wondering, when it comes to "forgiving", i am interested to know if CFF teaches anything about the unique and specific responsibilities of "leaders" in the church of the body of christ, when it comes to their practical application of the doctrines and "processes" of forgiving and forgiveness?..........from my limited understanding of the christian scriptures, it seems that there are demands made of "leaders" in the church regarding such things as repentance for wrongs committed by them towards the believers in their church, which are additional requirements for "leaders" in order to enjoy the forgiveness from the believers who have been wronged, for the wrongs committed against them...........are there??...........i notice that you mention rev. wayne clapp (his name is on the link you provided on the "packages" thread), and quote rev. john nessle..........under whose auspices were these CFF leaders ordained?........do they have formal seminary training or credentials from an accredited christian college or seminary?.......do they have formal training in biblical exegesis, or textual criticism?........do they have formal training in greek, hebrew, aramaic or latin?.........are they thus qualified to provide you "fellowlabourers" with "the true and accurate word" in your leadership training? ......what formal, professional training do they have in christian ministry or counselling?.........do they ahere to the "principles of biblical research" as taught in and by the way international?........were they "leaders" in TWI??..........if so, have they apologized to the believers they may have wronged during their time as TWI leaders?.........do they need to?..........did they teach you "fellowlabourers" to "lump loving and forgiving in together" as you stated you do?......... if so, what is their scriptural basis for this "lumping together"?..........or is this just something you have developed on your own?
you stated that you never considered CFF to be a TWI OFFSHOOT...........but, since visiting the greasespot, you may now consider CFF to indeed be an OFFSHOOT of TWI.......beacause, as you said, "i guess we do have a lot of the old way folks in our group"...........may i offer my opinion that, it is not WHO is in your group which makes it a TWI OFFSHOOT, but rather, WHAT is taught and promulgated by CFF leaders, which makes it an OFFSHOOT of TWI........what do you think?........also, the "original manuscript" of about 70% of the content of the PFAL BOOK that you say you're trying to get a copy of can be found in E.W. Bullinger's book "HOW TO ENJOY THE BIBLE"........which, imho, is a more expertly and finely written book, authored by an eminently more qualified scholar than vp!.........i'm pretty sure your dad has a copy lying around somewhere........or if not,.........surely your CFF bookstore or library will have one.......check it out, nathan.....it really is a much better read!
i sure hope you don't get defensive from this "barrage" of questions!.........please don't, or you'll miss the point of my asking them..........hope you won't mind doing the work it may take to answer these questions..........i really do appreciate you taking the time to think about them and answer them.......it should provide a good learning opportunity for both of us, don't you think??........thanks again for this thread , and your posts!.........nice meeting you here at the greasespot......come and sit a spell..........enjoy our reality brew!.........the first cup's on me!!..........................peace.
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polar bear
Dear Nat-Welcome to the "spot".
I think most of us here have forgiven those who hurt us in twi. The question is have they forgiven us. Nope, notta, zip.
My wife and I were leadership and we did truly care for and help people. When we left, we left quietly.
We heard after we left that the leadership lied about us telling all the believers that we sent negative letters around which we never did. All the believers were instructed not to talk to us or phone us. People we had helped deliver from great grief and destruction. People we had helped bring up their children, sat with them in hospitals, married them. None of them ever called us or ever asked us how we were doing. Perhaps it's them who have the problems.
We're just trying to figure out how we can get back into the life God really wanted for us without all the oppression, guilt, and fear.
Even Jesus Christ himself would have called them hypocrites as he did all those who were unloving in his day.
They can do what they want to. As for me I'll live a better life.
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potato
in the areas I lived, that was what they did to everyone who left. I'm sorry that happened to you, brother P. Bear.
I no longer believe the things that were said about anyone who left or was told to leave. I've seen the lies revealed too many times now.
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waysider
Hello again, Nathan
I, too, was in a program called Fellow Laborers many years ago as were some other posters here as well.
I'm curious about the specifics of the program, such as living arrangements, daily schedules, work assignments, length of commitment, etc.
Is this program pattered after the old FL program of The Way?
Maybe it's just a coincidence that the two programs share a similar name.
It is, after all, a phrase that appears in The Bible.
Perhaps you could talk a bit about the program and your involvement in it.
You can find quite a bit here about the specifics of the old FL program, or you could ask about it if you don't find the info.
Well, not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to find a common thread that binds us.
Hope you don't mind my being nosey.
Just say so if you do.
waysider
PS---- Are there any truck stops near you? ;)
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George Aar
What a comfort to know that there are still really loving people out there who are willing to come here and point out where we're falling short. Oh, the relief!
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Neo
Welcome Nathan
Just wanted to add my two cents.
I agree with what you have exhorted the believers here to do, love and forgive! But, you cannot forget that their was one person with whom Job did not pray for.
Anyway, there are a few things people need to know about cffm:
When John Shroyer pased away, who jumped in to take over as president?
Their teachings don't all agree with what Dr. taught, and in fact disagree sharply at points!
Also, why don't they supply a link to TWI?
Just woundering :unsure:
Just do yourself a big favor and don't just believe everything you hear!
Neo
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Goey
Hi Nathan,
Glad you found your way to the Cafe.
Quite a few seemingly well-intentioned folks come by here from time to time, and after reading a few posts bring up the topic of forgiveness. They quote a few scriptures like you did, usually ones that talk about bitterness and forgiveness, being judgmental, etc. By and large, these folks are usually associated with an offshoot or group of some kind that pretty much hangs on to the basic teachings of VPW/TWI in one form or another. I see you are no exception.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant this to be "loving encouragement", but if you take a step back yourself you may see that it may not be preceived that way by many here -- and for good reason.Growing up in the way, you were taught and "the word" bound by the strict framework built by TWI/VPW. Have you ever studied the scriptures yourself outside of the constraints of TWI/VPW/CFF influence? I coulud be wrong, but I doubt that you have. For many of us that have, we can't imagine how we possibly held on to some of the the things taught in TWI as "the word" as long as we did. We have found many basic teachings to be seriously flawed or downright wrong and damaging. So what you believe to be "the word" some here may not.
Is holding someone accountable for evil deeds the same thing as holding a grudge? Is discussing what happened and why it happened a sign of bitterness or lack of forgiveness? Is it "hating your brother" to point out and discuss the errors of a "brother" who damaged the lives of many of your other brothers and sisters? Is is strife to challenge or disagree with the teachings a famous teacher?
Step back and think about it.
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Goey
DontWorry,
Many of Bullingers works, including "How to Enjoy The Bible" are in the Pubic Domain and can be read or downloaded.
HERE
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WhiteDove
Hi Nathon thanks for the contact
You are getting a free pass here because you are new, but you may have noticed that the posts are starting to ratchet up already. They will get more to the point soon. You affiliation with CFF will soon land you a full fledged Weirwille Worshiper Title soon enough. No need to try to explain that you are not, it won't do any good. Enjoy the coffee while they are still offering it for free .........you'll be paying for it soon :blink:
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Goey
Dove, since you are predicting if not instigating a confrontational scenario, can you be specific so Nathan might understand fully?
If the term "Wierwille Worshipper" comes up, (other than your use of it), I would be rather surprised. I doubt that Nathan is a "Wierwille Worshiper", any more than the folks here that discuss the events of TWI and the actions of many involved, are bitter, unforgiving , brother haters, causing strife.
He seems like a well-intentioned man that just may need take a closer look at what really goes on here.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Hi Nathan...welcome to the Grease Spot Cafe!...Welcome to a place where people are encouraged to think...and to ask questions.
Don't be disapointed if there are some folks here who disagree with you...in fact, you should embrace it! Celebrate the differences in what other people think and believe. Personally, I shun gurus...I discovered years ago that that most of them are really screwed up and had no business telling other people what to believe...especially if their "training" came from a cult...but that's just me.
We have a wide variety of folks here...atheists, agnostics, Christians, and "others"...there are even some folks here who still believe many of the cult teaching that are endorsed by twi and their many splinter groups...but don't worry, we usually just laugh at them.
However, I am offering, for a limited time...my own special class entitled "The truth is ever present and I know it better than you"...A one time donation of $300 is required in order to be blessed by the greatness of what I have to say...not everyone here takes my class...but, after reading your posts, I thought you might consider it....thanks and again, welcome.
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Sudo
Groucho,
Where can I send you my money? I want to know about the "Ever Present Truth And You" that you offer. I know you don't have any serious religious credentials but that doesn't deter me from wanting to give you my money. After I take your "own special class" can you send me out to do missionary work so I can get blessed? I'd love doing door to door proselytizing for you.
If you don't think I'm worthy, I have a sister that loves Drambuie.
sudo
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Goey
Hey Groucho,
When I took your class last month it was only $25.99
What gives bro?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hiya Goey!...........i don't presume to speak for rev. groucho, but......your obvious lack of a true commitment to the word the reverend teaches, as demonstrated by your lackluster "spiritual" performance of late, has made it necessary for groucho (at the behest of his board of trustees) to evoke a greater level of commitment from future students of his class,.....by raising the required donation level to $300!!..........that should substantially raise the level of believing groucho believes is requisite for his students to get the most out of the best of the class!!!...........your questions will be answered at the end of the class!!!..........you can still take it as many times as you want, since you are a grad of the e-bay version!!.......................peace.
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