A note on forgiving

[Neo]

T-Bone,

You wrote: “Jesus warned of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees – which was a theological system that bred hypocrisy. I tend to think vp's doctrine would fall into the same category – a belief system with a primary concern for appearances rather than matters of the heart. Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm interested in your thoughts on that.”

When you say “vp’s doctrine” do you mean the whole ball of wax?

I am very careful to distinguish between TVTs and the written record. It’s impossible to trace the origins and proponents of the TVTs. It seems many grads were loaded with TVTs and that gave rise to lots of baloney. I think your opinion is focused on those TVTs and their consequences. If you would come back to work the written materials, and them exclusively, you’d find that it’s a different picture there.

As far as appearances go, they are important and had to be taught. I could see that, and I could see that some took that too seriously. We were HIPPIES, or many of us were, or like hippies. We had been indoctrinated into “letting it all hang out” and wearing torn and dirty clothes and not bathing. We needed some teaching there.

And matters of the heart? I saw plenty of that taught. I’m sorry if you missed it. It’s not too late to see plenty of heart in the written forms of PFAL.

***

You wrote: “In regards to Paul's warning of counterfeits – and even your own mentioning of the devil's activity – I was wondering if you could mention specific reasons why you think vp was a genuine minister of God."

He led me to the True God. He showed me how to read the KJV and other versions and see past man’s religious baloney. We love God because He loved us first, and Dr showed me that God is love and that He loved me. From Dr’s ministry I was able to throw out the baloney of the RC Church that had plagued me with guilt and condemnation. From PFAL I received a strong desire to help others see that God is love.

I know Dr to be of God by the fruits that grew in my life from his teaching. I know from the Word that his old man nature was not worth two cents, just like mine.

***

You wrote: “I was intrigued by your reference to religious folks stuck in the 4 gospel time administration [which, I guess, you also lump me in that category]. vp's teachings focused more on showing the application of PFAL principles rather than developing a relationship with Jesus Christ. Has Paul's warning of some who pervert the gospel of Christ ever been a concern of yours in the struggles you mentioned in a previous post? In other words - did you ever think vp perverted the gospel of Christ?”

I see the perverted gospel in churchianity where a relationship with Jesus Christ is counterfeited by emotions.

Some of those emotions, in the early stages of this counterfeit process, can be genuine reactions to genuine understanding of parts of God’s Word. But, from my experiences, later on those emotions fade, as all emotional feelings do. When this happens the person who HAD experienced them naturally wants to recharge them because they felt good. By then he had absorbed the prevalent counterfeit teaching that THOSE FEELINGS were a relationship with Jesus Christ.

I remember nuns in the RC Church describing this as the reason they joined the convent. In a sense they think of themselves as married to Jesus. They do whatever they have to do to artificially pump up those emotions. When those endorphins finally do flow they feel like they are “in love” with Jesus and that is their counterfeit relationship.

I used to try and do this when I was a child in Catholic School, but being a male, I felt that it was impossible to go this route as efficiently as a female could, and I felt cheated.

Later on in life I found that some Protestants had found non-homosexual ways of duplicating the nuns’ approach, and they could get the endorphins flowing. The charismatic movement of the time even brought some of this to the RCs, but by then I was bowing out.

I suppose in other locales and in other centuries RC priests and monks may have gone this route of having an “emotional” relationship with what they thought was Jesus.

I also know now that brother-brother love can be quite strong and even emotional at times without introducing any sexual elements. I would expect that the apostles had such a brother-brother relationship with Jesus, and THOSE relationships were genuine.

However, those relationships were not strong enough nor spiritual enough to satisfy God Who wanted more for us. That relationship didn’t do them much good when they were out of Jesus’ presence, and it totally failed them during and after the crucifixion.

There was a time when Jesus told them that it would be good for them that he would leave. The kind of relationship that they had with him would be ending soon, he was telling them. Then that time finally came and he was removed from their sight.

What PFAL taught me was that the flesh person of Jesus Christ was removed by God from sight, and those flesh relationships were terminated FOR A GOOD REASON. That reason was that God had a secretly planned a BETTER kind of relationship for them.

The ministry of Jesus Christ on earth, in the senses realm, was spectacular, but it ended. He ascended and sat down at the right hand of the Father. In II Cor. 5:16 we are told “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”

Trying to go back to knowing Christ after the flesh is bound to end up in counterfeit soup because it is no longer available. You can’t call Christ on the phone and meet him at Starbucks. If you do it’s either another road to Damascus incident, or the more likely “spiritual problem.”

The relationship we can have with Christ starts with receiving “Christ in you the hope of glory.” Then that is improved and it becomes Christ in you THE GLORY! This is the “Christ formed in you” teaching that so few heard or remember of Dr’s, even though he did it three times that I have tape of, and probably some more. I have posted one of the transcripts here, but I don’t know if it survived the pruning of a few years ago.

My relationship with Christ is, IN MY WORDS, like the relationship a theater actor has with the role he plays. An actor is not the character he plays, but in time an actor can “identify” with that part. This can be a identity problem for that actor if it goes too far. For us, going all out in this PFAL sponsored relationship is void of problems. (Gal 4:18)

In my RC taught relationship with Christ I had to follow him at a distance. In my PFAL taught relationship to Christ I get to fill his shoes and walk his walk. I take the place of the absent (flesh) Christ wherever I go, as long as I live in that mind of Christ PFAL teaches and not in my old man nature. This is the whole point of the remaining verses in II Corinthians 5.

Let’s look at them.

I Cor. 5:16-21

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:

yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,

yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:

old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And all things are of God,

who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

To wit, that God was in Christ,

reconciling the world unto himself,

not imputing their trespasses unto them;

and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ,

as though God did beseech you by us:

we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;

that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In this passage Paul is teaching that the old relationship with Christ is past, and that the new one was in full swing for Paul, but not yet for the Corinthians. They had pneuma hagion and could SIT, but they were carnal. They hadn’t yet gotten Christ FORMED in their soul/minds. They had Christ CREATED in them spiritually, pneuma hagion, but their minds were carnal, old man nature minds, for the most part.

Paul was teaching them so they too could rise up to this superior relationship with Christ. Paul was acting in Christ’s place for them. They weren’t up to that speed yet, so the “us” and the “we” in there refers to Paul and Timothy, the “you” refers to the Corinthians.

I don’t see this kind of relationship taught in churchianity. I see mere emotionalism there at best, and a counterfeit christ-relationship at worst, especially when the trinity is brought in and it’s a god-man counterfeit christ that’s in that relationship. This is what Paul was talking about when he warned us not to pervert the relationship he had the revelation to teach. Paul’s gospel shows us the ministry of THE MAN Jesus Christ seated at the right hand of God.

The relationship with Christ we can have is to become LIKE him as I John 3:2 teaches.

To see the fullness of this requires PFAL because it was lost before the apostle Paul died. Full recovery took 2000 years and divine intervention. The Word was lost in the first century and then re-issued to us in PFAL in a new format, but the same ideas as Paul’s, with an added element. Paul ministered to God’s people by revelation to help them move into the Grace Administration, while Victor Paul helped God’s people by revelation to move into the into the Appearing Administration.

Interestingly, the notion of the Word being lost and re-issued comes up in my next response to brideofjc, as well as elements being added in the re-issue.

I just thought this needed repeating! How many of us would even be alive if not for what God gave us by way of Dr. and TWI 1?

God bless,

Neo

[rascal]

I don`t know neo, I have 3 syblings, syblings, parents, ghrandparents, extended family of aunts and uncles that didn`t get involved in twi they all ended up fine. I have to think that I would have been also.

I tend to think that God is a lot bigger than twi and if he wanted to find us, or we him...it could have been managed.

How about the question,,,how many of us would be in much better chape if we had never even heard of Vic wierwille and twi?

[waysider]

I just thought this needed repeating! How many of us would even be alive if not for what God gave us by way of Dr. and TWI 1?

God bless,

Neo

But then again, how many are no longer alive because of TWI 1?

[Neo]

I don`t know neo, I have 3 syblings, syblings, parents, ghrandparents, extended family of aunts and uncles that didn`t get involved in twi they all ended up fine. I have to think that I would have been also.

I tend to think that God is a lot bigger than twi and if he wanted to find us, or we him...it could have been managed.

How about the question,,,how many of us would be in much better chape if we had never even heard of Vic wierwille and twi?

I believe you are right, God is so big that He did find us and we Him.

We cannot go back in time and relieve the past, but we can keep moving forward and continue to improve our lives.

Also, I have two parents, two sisters(one my twin), one brother, two children, and eight grandchildren, all doing fine.

And I'm only 48.

Gotta run but thanks for the replies.

Get back to you soon.

Neo

But then again, how many are no longer alive because of TWI 1?

I do.

[T-Bone]

I just thought this needed repeating! How many of us would even be alive if not for what God gave us by way of Dr. and TWI 1?

God bless,

Neo

This also needs repeating:

Oh, I see your point. vp CLAIMED God taught him the Word like it hadn't been known since the first century....Once we overlook his proficiency at plagiarism and delusions of grandeur – I can see how TWI folks assumed he was a "holy man of God" too.

Wonder how many folks would still hold on to the GRAND assumption that God gave "doctor" the Word - if they realized he was a lying, thieving, egotistical, mean, deluded, controlling, sexual predator and drunkard.

Edited March 9, 2008 by T-Bone

[Ham]

I just thought this needed repeating! How many of us would even be alive if not for what God gave us by way of Dr. and TWI 1?

I dunno.. looks like a heck of a lot of assumptions.

1. Yes, I'd still be alive. I wasn't exactly on a course of self-destruction, neither did the debil have me in his sights for destruction, lest I believed the words of the vicster.

2. I don't entirely agree that what I got from twi I or II for that matter, was "given" to me. In fact, I think I paid far too much.

3. No, he was not a Doctor. He bought his "doctorate" with a short stint at a degree mill, and tried to use this second rate sheepskin to maneuver his way into high religious circles, political circles, and into the trust of unwary individuals.

sometimes he was successful.

[brideofjc]

Well,

if one wants a Bible that has the closest relation to the texts into English,

the New Revised Standard is #1,

with the New American Standard Bible, and the Revised Standard,

then coming up the rear's the Contemporary English and the New International.

If one wants a Bible that has the italics,

there's the King James, the New King James, and the New American Standard Bible.

If one wants a Bible that translates the same word into the same word more often,

then that strength has been criticized of the New American Standard Bible.

In short, the New American Standard Bible is about the best Bible one can find in

English. It's one of the very best for general usage, and for italics fans,

it is far, far better than the KJV and NKJV.

However, some people have chosen the KJV, and they will stay with it no matter what,

just as some others chose the NIV and will stay with it no matter what.

That's a sha

me, since both can easily find Bibles that would serve them better

(The NRSV over the NIV, the NASB over the KJV.)

I personally use the UBS4, the NA27 and the NASB plus the KJV.

[Neo]

This also needs repeating:

Wonder how many folks would still hold on to the GRAND assumption that God gave "doctor" the Word - if they realized he was a lying, thieving, egotistical, mean, deluded, controlling, sexual predator and drunkard.

T-Bone why do you say these things, do you have personal knowledge?

Neo

[T-Bone]

T-Bone why do you say these things, do you have personal knowledge?

Neo

Yes, Neo. And the reason I say these things has to do with the purpose of this website – to tell the other side of the story. Folks are opening up the "Lock Boxes" of personal experiences and revealing the true nature of vpw and TWI…And it's a little freakin' scary when the personal knowledge of many starts looking like common knowledge.

Then there's the obvious facts that go unnoticed by some folks enamored with the man-of-god façade. His true character was right there in front of everyone's noses – but like a bizarro twist on the emperor's new clothes, the TWI-mindset only saw the man of God. I guess my post # 846 bears repeating also – and highly recommend you read the thread I mentioned in it – The Way: Living in Wonderland:

Interesting…vp re-defines plagiarism as assembling bits and pieces from other people's work to make them "fit". Funny, how he claims he learned wherever he could and sorted out what was right with Scripture – but he also claimed God taught him the Word like it hadn't been known since the first century.

Obviously vp had a long suit in lying – and through the wonders of make-believing and salesmanship he hides the truth in plain sight. Oh, he's got nothing to hide – puts the books he plagiarized in TWI's bookstore, makes reference to them in a false humility how he learned wherever he could – but belittles them all by insinuating only he could make it all fit together. But so much for how vp hoodwinked folks. Honest…sane folks call that plagiarism.

vp also lied about other things in Whiteside's book. Like on page 175 where he claimed he took everything he could from the Moody Correspondence School. In my post # 500 of The Way: Living in Wonderland thread I posted a letter from Moody Correspondence School that states otherwise:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=213920

vp was a boldfaced liar. No doubt about it. His toxic doctrine/mindset has poisoned thousands for sure – who follow in the footsteps of the imaginary alchemist of theology.

What you have here at Grease Spot is an environment beyond the control of TWI…The truth is out on TWI's favorite idol. There's no TWI leadership here to "shield" you from it, re-interpret it, "spiritualize" it, whitewash it, or make it go away.

Edited March 10, 2008 by T-Bone

[Mike]

Hi T-Bone,

The weather has been good here in San Diego, so I’m playing catch-up in my business and bills. I realize I have left a lot of dangling sub-topics but that’s somewhat the nature of these bound-to-be-frayed threads. I just don’t have the time to do much more than this post for a little while. Maybe a day or two. Who knows.

I have been reading though, as best I can.

I saw Don’tWorryBeHappy has moved his sideshow to another thread where it can proceed unheeded by the facts and truths from the positive side, and that’s fine with me. I think he has, like I said here before, a round-about kernel of righteous anger in the axe he’s grinding against splinter group leaders. Funny how I tend to go against them from the opposite direction.

Now isn’t THAT cause to pause?!

I go after splinter leaders for not being pro-vpw enough,

and Don’tWorryBeHappy goes after them for not being anti-vpw enough?

Contradiction, anomaly, paradox, conundrum?

No.

I’m focusing on the Christ-within that was manifested by vpw&co while Don’tWorryBeHappy is focusing on the old-man-nature manifestations of vpw&co.

So I’m saying splinter leaders are sloppy in dealing with the good that came from TWI-1.

Don’tWorryBeHappy is saying splinter leaders are sloppy in dealing with the bad that came from TWI-1.

***

I’m focusing (along with a small number of other posters here) on where God was successful in finding a team of leaders who would literally receive and carry out His Word better than anything in 2000 years

Don’tWorryBeHappy is focusing (along with a large number of other posters here) on where the adversary was successful in finding a smaller team of leaders who would fall into his fear/greed traps.

***

The leaders involved in TWI-1 had Christ natures and old man natures, and both natures got exercised. I have reported here that I can fall on my face several times in one day. But then again, I can get up several times in one day as well. Even in one hour’s time I can manifest both natures, back and forth, many times. It’s not always like this, but it happens.

Sometimes I’m much more committed and steady... and stay flat on my face for weeks. I’m learning to reverse that and walk with God more steadily. Fortunately, God is there faithfully to forgive me EVERY TIME. (hint: topic, topic, topic) God was there for that TWI-1 team too, ready to forgive and move on with the work.

Let’s talk about TWI-1 for a bit.

Take several hundred people like little old me all working together, but crank up their Type A personality traits to Eleven, and watch the fur fly! Probably most of the time it’s low level old man nature interactions, with occasional flare-ups of intense activity as bunches of them all fall simultaneously, like teamwork, to do the adversary’s work (of many varieties, not just sex). But then there are the MANY MORE low level Christ-Christ interactions with occasionally spectacular breakthroughs with light. THIS light is what I focus on now.

This is exactly what I saw when I was working a twig in the 70’s in NY, then when I was on HQ staff in the late 70’s, then again working a twig in CA for the early 80’s, with a break to go WOW in there too. I saw waves of light and darkness coming from thousands of actions and interactions in all those settings. Many people were in and out of fellowship, knocking each other out, and helping each other back.

It was marble cake in motion as I said in Post #913.

Our Romans 7 dual nature is the key to it all, explaining what the heck happened, and what the heaven happened. It’s in many other scriptures too. Shall we list them soon?

The truth is out on TWI's favorite idol. There's no TWI leadership here to "shield" you from it, re-interpret it, "spiritualize" it, whitewash it, or make it go away.

I try to make it go away all the time for myself and I’m successful.

Apply the knowledge of our dual nature to this situation. What would you want to focus on more? Shall we be forever stuck focusing on actions and then the white washing of some group dirty old man natures? No, not if that means suppressing the brilliant light that’s 2000 years unique emanating from the same group of people’s Christ natures.

When I say “group” here I mean Dr, plus his previous teachers, and his editors, and all the support jobs that printed and distributed that brilliant light, in other words ALL the staff and Corps and volunteers, both at root locales and on the field.

The truth is out on TWI's favorite idol.

I’d like to offer a possible correction here. What I think you really mean to say, to use words most accurately, is that “Some facts are out on TWI’s favorite idol.” I can agree to that. BUT...

I’m sure not ALL the facts are out. There are plenty "other sides" we'lll never hear.

I'm sure some of those facts are fish stories with 25 years of stretching.

I'm sure some of those "facts" are wrong interpretations.

But some dark facts ARE out, I’ll grant you that.

I just don’t think they are worth the time and focus.

I refuse to try and sort out such a mess.

Also, to some degree, the truths areout about light from God’s team that produced the written PFAL teachings, book and magazine form, that we were told to master and that we did NOT master, not even close.

The truth is out of the TREASURE that awaits all who seek it in the writings.

My gosh, this isn't a commercial. The books are out there already!

I’m for brilliant light focusing.

It’s there for those who want to see it.

We once saw it.

We can see it again.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Mike

[frank123lol]

Light is light,It is not like a dimmer switch you graualy turn up to full brillance

As someone said Bg Lenard said of twi that it would not last.You,me,others

will and have carried on but The good dr and the ministry of da vord would not have lasted.

Thank God for the Christ within,It is nice to hold forth the knowledge we have without promoting anyone but God.

[T-Bone]

Hi Mike, glad to hear you have favorable conditions for work.

...I'm focusing on the Christ-within that was manifested by vpw&co while Don'tWorryBeHappy is focusing on the old-man-nature manifestations of vpw&co.

I think it's really more a matter of perception rather than focus. Focused is okay – but does the person understand what they're focused on? Let's focus entirely on the Scripture that the devil quoted to Jesus. Does it tell us anything about the devil? Ah – but let's back up a little and we see that even the biggest liar around can quote the Bible…back up a little more and we see he can twist Scripture to suit his own evil agenda [to tempt Jesus]. That's the BIGGER picture.

I like to look at the WHOLE picture and see it for what it is. And I believe that's a biblical approach – absolutely necessary in recognizing or identifying issues – it cuts through the smokescreen and one is less likely to get thrown off or distracted by deceptive means.

This is what I was talking about in my post # 906

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...=401446

I understand those passages in Matthew, Luke, II Corinthians, and Galatians as a call for discernment. They do NOT tell us to focus on any supposedly "good qualities" of the counterfeits.

...I'd like to offer a possible correction here. What I think you really mean to say, to use words most accurately, is that "Some facts are out on TWI's favorite idol." I can agree to that...

No – I really meant to say "truth" – as is commonly used outside of TWI-speak – as in a common dictionary definition of "truth" = "the state of being the case; fact; the body of real things, events, and facts." [Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11^th Edition].

Edited March 10, 2008 by T-Bone

[rascal]

Who in the hell are YOU mike to decide that our personal experiences...are FISH stories?? That we have embellished after 25 years?

Just because it wasn`t your experience, does NOT give you the right to call us liars.

I know, I know, in order for you to believe your own schpiel...you have tobelieve that the rest of us are liars...but I`ll be darned if I will sit by and let you tell OTHER people that we are liars.

You make ASSUMPTIONS about the man you WISH Vp`d been and present them as facts...you build a whole theological system around your illusion...and THEN try to negate all of the personal experiences of the many many posters here who saw evidence to the contrary by intimating that those with personal knowledge are lying or exaggerating.

I`ll bet that if it was your life destroyed by cruel treatment, or YOU had been drugged and raped...at the hands of vpw personally, or those whom he taught and mentored...if YOU had been his victim and then further victimized by cover up and accusations......you damned well would feel like it had more significance than a *fish story.

You are really heartless, brother.

Neo...for what it is worth many many here speak from personal first hand knowledge. Does it matter that top leaders have come forward publicly and confirmed not only the alcoholism and rampant adultery, but the the drugging and rape of our innocent sisters? You have leadership saying it happened, you have the women whom have come forth and said hay...it happened to me.....

On the other hand, you have people with admitted limited access to vpw .....they weren`t in the corpes, they didn`t live at hq....yet they speak with seeming authority concerning vpw and his *nature*.

Are you going to believe the people that actually met and interacted with vpw, the people who viewed up close and personal his nasty little secrets....or the people who simply saw his public persona and bought into the image that he polished in order to appear acceptable??

Edited March 10, 2008 by rascal

[WordWolf]

(snip)

I saw Don’tWorryBeHappy has moved his sideshow to another thread

(snip)

For someone who never likes to hear comments like that about the posts of others,

this was a childish insult to throw at someone who knew vpw on a MUCH more personal basis

than you ever did, who interacted with him a LOT more than you ever did.

I’m focusing (along with a small number of other posters here) on where God was successful in finding

a team of leaders who would literally receive and carry out His Word better than anything in 2000 years.

In case anyone missed it, I'm letting Mike's assertions stand out. The twi inner circle were the best

God could do, people-wise, in 2000 years, according to Mike.

No, not if that means suppressing the brilliant light that’s 2000 years unique emanating from the same group of people’s Christ natures.

When I say “group” here I mean Dr, plus his previous teachers, and his editors, and all the support jobs that printed and distributed that brilliant light, in other words ALL the staff and Corps and volunteers, both at root locales and on the field.

There it is again. Later, we'll get the story that the pfal books that these people worked on are NOW

THE Word of God, a sort-of Bible 2.0, superior to any printed Bible for communicating THE Truths of God Almighty.

It has REPLACED the printed Bibles as the communication of God.

I refuse to try and sort out such a mess.

Also, to some degree, the truths areout about light from God’s team that produced the written PFAL teachings, book and magazine form, that we were told to master and that we did NOT master, not even close.

The truth is out of the TREASURE that awaits all who seek it in the writings.

Mike's referring to one of the last teachings vpw did.

I shall summarize what he said, very simply.

A) There's no real truth out among other Christians.

B) The greatest thing to do is to serve people.

C) The greatest thing to serve people is God's Word, via twigs and pfal classes and twi functions.

D) The greatest preparation to do that is to study the pfal books and classes.

This whole "the pfal books are greater than anything that ANY Christians have EVER done and replaced the Bible"

stuff is unique to Mike and a bare handful of people. Mike's throwing this in to drum up interest in it, to see if anyone

else will "buy" what he's selling.

My gosh, this isn't a commercial. The books are out there already!

This IS a commercial. Mike wants to convince people that HIS answers are THE Answers of GOD ALMIGHTY.

[Mike]

There it is again. Later, we'll get the story that the pfal books that these people worked on are NOW

THE Word of God, a sort-of Bible 2.0, superior to any printed Bible for communicating THE Truths of God Almighty.

It has REPLACED the printed Bibles as the communication of God.

Hey, I like that!

Actually the STARS were Word 1.0

Moses brought in Word 2.0 with writing.

And now we took part in Word 3.0

Poor Microsoft, though. They don't stand a chance.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Mike

[WordWolf]

I've always told you, Mike, I do my best to portray you ACCURATELY, whether or not I agree with you.

To be fair, I think I've portrayed you FAR more ACCURATELY than you've portrayed me, but I don't let that

stop me from doing my best to be honest.

[Mike]

***

rascal,

You groaned unnecessarily: "Who in the hell are YOU mike to decide that our personal experiences...are FISH stories?? That we have embellished after 25 years?"

Careful. Try reading that again.

I know from the nature of people that some facts were presented accurately here.

I know the nature of people that SOME lies and distortions have slipped in there ALSO.

But I see it as unhealthy to try and sort out the two, ESPECIALLY when there's light to be focused on.

[wing]

I want to salute all those who have endured abuses and attacks resulting from TWI,

I want to ((((( hug))))) the innocence that still remains despite those very dark moments of life.

I want to applaud that you do not choose to slip quietly, secretly, or in shame; out that side-door or back-door.

Yesterday morning it occurred to me, considering some of the posts I've read at GSC. . . .

There are some great Bible moments that just go hand in hand with refusing to go away quietly, or in secret.

Like Acts 16:22 describing Paul and Silas being publicly stripped and beaten at the hands of those authorities.

What an ugly, horrible, and humiliating experience that must have been for Paul and Silas.

Then Acts 16:37 demonstrating Paul refusing to be released "quietly". Those authorities had to acknowledge

what they had done.

Don't go quietly Rascal, Ex, etc...

Some antagonistic posters argue forever favoring the style of vp. I think that they are immitating him (which they may consider

as a compliment). But it is not a compliment at all; the way they try to silence, or to discredit. Didn't vp like his version

best too? Anyone who disagreed simply was not welcome.

There are still so many scripture records about abuse...

Like Joseph (how could his brothers really have treated him that way. . . ?)

Or Bathsheba (how could the king really have done what she claimed. . . ?)

Oh, this list will get pretty long.

My point is that your voice about your experience should be heard.

[Ham]

But I see it as unhealthy to try and sort out the two, ESPECIALLY when there's light to be focused on.

reminds me of a Springsteen song..

[Neo]

Yes ....

What you have here at Grease Spot is an environment beyond the control of TWI…The truth is out on TWI's favorite idol. There's no TWI leadership here to "shield" you from it, re-interpret it, "spiritualize" it, whitewash it, or make it go away.

Thanks for the response. And I thank God that we have this platform in which to express ourselves from.

Neo

[rascal]

Hi T-Bone,

I saw Don’tWorryBeHappy has moved his sideshow to another thread where it can proceed unheeded by the facts and truths from the positive side, and that’s fine with me. I think he has, like I said here before, a round-about kernel of righteous anger in the axe he’s grinding against splinter group leaders. Funny how I tend to go against them from the opposite direction.

Don saw a HECK of a lot more twi close up and personal for a heck of a lot longer than YOU did Mike. HE speaks with the authority of first hand testimony, while YOU are simply making assumptions

I’m sure not ALL the facts are out. There are plenty "other sides" we'lll never hear.

I'm sure some of those facts are fish stories with 25 years of stretching.

I'm sure some of those "facts" are wrong interpretations.

Sure sound like you are calling the folks liars to me

But some dark facts ARE out, I’ll grant you that.

I just don’t think they are worth the time and focus.

Peoples destroyed lives certainly ARE worth the time and focus these were real flesh and blood people...the lambs that the shepherd leaves the 99 to search for the single lost...

I refuse to try and sort out such a mess.

I guess because your wounded brothers and sisters, those destroyed by the people embracing twi doctrine are unimportant to you

The truth is out of the TREASURE that awaits all who seek it in the writings.

WRING...the truth is that we were decieved by a ravening wolf who devoured the flock after we were lured away from the REAL shepherd

My gosh, this isn't a commercial. The books are out there already!

and greasespot is here refuting the books and their author. We are the proof that it was all a lie and deception.

[Ham]

But I see it as unhealthy to try and sort out the two, ESPECIALLY when there's light to be focused on.

Ever consider the possibility that "light" may lie in TRUTH? And I don't mean any one particular archaic doctrine or superstition either.

Light doesn't need focussed on. In fact, you'd better bring a pair of sunglasses..

[rascal]

Thanks wing...that is pretty humbling.

Edited March 10, 2008 by rascal

[brideofjc]

Then there's the obvious facts that go unnoticed by some folks enamored with the man-of-god façade. His true character was right there in front of everyone's noses – but like a bizarro twist on the emperor's new clothes, the TWI-mindset only saw the man of God.

When I was in my early 20's, I had the opportunity to walk up and meet him, but the funny thing is when it came time, it felt like I was rooted to the

spot that I stood on. I wrote it off as nerves and child-like fears of meeting someone whom I supposed to be important.

Today, I believe it was the Lord Jesus holding me back and those "fears" were the responses that my spirit was having to his immediacy. I think that

these responses were the gifting of "discerning of spirits" that later matured as I grew in the Word of God apart from TWI.

Man-o-god facade? What a good phrase to depict what it truly was rather than the truth.

That particular time, while teaching, he lit a cigarette which just made everyone "gasp" with our learned religiosity we were imbibing, and then we all

told ourselves that it was that nasty religious spirit and we needed to rebuke and bind it in the name of Jesus.

NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!

[rascal]

Bride...I too had the opportunity to meet him once. He was cold, very very cold and aloof. I was terrified that he was discerning something unsavory about me :(