I remember my "welcome" or should I say "initiation" here at gs some months ago regarding this subject. Since then, my skin has shall we (oriental) this one and say, "grown a bit thicker"! But a few old WC vets certainly made their thoughts known. Then things just moved on with I'm sure a few "eyes" watching my little postings from time to time.
For me, this aggression is related to the nature of things both past and present at the Spot.
People have for the most part, come from a difficult life experience, with anger and distrust as part of the baggage they carry. Individual personalities! (plural) also enter into the equation, as well as the Internet being the communication medium. If we were "mates" meeting for a barbie and a beer face to face, I think a lot of this perceived anger would not exist.
Resolving these issues may possibly means letting some of it be laughed at and/or ignored. People have bad days and sometimes push the wrong button w/o thinking, so pursuing it to the end just creates more turmoil.
Also, maybe it's more Christian and a lot easier to forgive and forget, and start a new more interesting thread...
yes VPW worshipers call what we do here a Personal Attack but that not what we do
As you me and others agree we just tell the truth without name calling here
they are luckly this is not like some JW boards were Personal Attacks are ok
maybe this board is a attack on the Way ministry love for money and other things but
they can changed their ways and if they do it it would mean closeing their doors dividing the money with us other wise they do not line up with even that green card
What if we all took them to court and said ok " on the green card we sign give us right to take the foundation class free everytime its ran and in bussiness if they upgrade a class you get the upgrade version in place of the old one by bussiness law
for the next class 2,000 of us show up at a person door" then when the person did not welcome us we sue the cult for break of promise otherwise promising us something they have no control over
2000 laws suits would make ohio court have to pass it up to fed court because the paper work would cost to must
all we would need is a form legal paper were we just fill our name then mail it to be filled in court the Way would have to deal with it
even filling 2000 small claim cases for our money back because they are not standing behind their class promises would get the feds looking into them
small claim case cost about $35.00 in most places plus a small fee for the cops to serve the Way papers
and if the truth makes the Way evil devish VPW idol worshipers which puts them in place "so be it"
I for one would like to see one church that only wants enough money to take care of the Churches"s needs
If they the Way only asked for needs that would be a light bill, heat bill, and phone bill
so tithe in the Way should be .0001 per cent of one week income per every 100 people or so
other wise no church needs all that money
I do not recall Jesus Christ saying ok I will feed you but first hand me $10.00 a person because these two fishes were not free
Jesus Christ told the truth some times the Pharisee's did not like his words
A man's wisdom gives him patience; it is to his glory to overlook an offense.
A hot-tempered man must pay the penalty; if you rescue him, you will have to do it again.
Being a discussion board, things do get discussed here don't they? It's difficult to separate an idea from the mind that bears it. What's it mean? What else does it mean?
There are some points of contention, basic ones, that will go round and round on this board forever. They're not compatible and don't meet somewhere down the line to agree to disagree.
Apparently if people are going to enter into these discussions they're going to have to accept a certain amount of acrimony. As a general rule I think that's accepted, a by product of the open discussion.
(Look at the phrase "vp worshippers" and the like is a very distasteful one as delivered. I'm sure those so branded wouldn't consider themselves so. But it's the term generated to label certain people because of their opinions, which in most cases don't actually involve worshipping vp)
A little bit of that goes a long way. I don't personally entertain large extended doses of that, anywhere. I certainly wouldn't here. I don't think it's healthy. It doesn't advance my thinking, my well being, my views big or small. Yet I do contribute some harsh, direct opinions at times, harsh if you're on the opposite side certainly.
There's a very simple reality that actually goes to one of the points thats often made around here - no one's got a gun to anyone's head, making them write what they write. We choose. I choose. You choose. They choose.
We make our own world, but we never do it alone. Others are involved. Working through, with, managing our relationships, is what it's all about. I'm not an expert, so I don't have a "magic bullet" I pull out of my ear to make every interaction successful. Muddling along long enough though this is what I've picked up.
(Look at the phrase "vp worshippers" and the like is a very distasteful one as delivered. I'm sure those so branded wouldn't consider themselves so. But it's the term generated to label certain people because of their opinions, which in most cases don't actually involve worshipping vp)
Exactly socks, So the question begs if it's not true why do we need to bait someone with an obvious lie? Why do we need a name to call them? Don't they just have normal names like everyone else that we could refer to them by?
It's a sorry state of affairs, when folks give FIRST-HAND witness to events, and they are ignored by others.
I'd have to disagree with you on this David- (notice I referred to you by your name not GreaseSpot Worshiper )
Ever gone to a crime scene and heard the first hand witnesses? Often you would think they were at different events. The truth is there are various reasons why these differences happen. Ever been to court sometimes first hand witness find out that they really didn't see things, quite the way they thought they did. I said it before many a person is sitting on death row because someone believed another's guess at what the truth was. No matter how much we may like someone ,it's not enough to convict someone without a fair hearing ,which is not a one sided one.
Exactly socks, So the question begs if it's not true why do we need to bait someone with an obvious lie? Why do we need a name to call them? Don't they just have normal names like everyone else that we could refer to them by?
Yes! Which is why calling them docvic worshippers is a personal attack against their character. It is essentially accusing someone of idolatry. Unless you know that the person or people actually are worshipping Victor Paul Wierwille, it is entirely accusatory and speculative. Why use it? Exactly!
Even if someone WAS ACTUALLY worshipping Wierwille, to mention that on the forums is a personal attack.
Who cares?
It's like if someone was fat and you called them grossly obese on the forums. You could be absolutely correct, but why would you mention it?
What does the person's fatness have to do with the issues?
You can discuss FAT without calling the poster FAT.
I'd have to disagree with you on this David- (notice I referred to you by your name not GreaseSpot Worshiper )
Ever gone to a crime scene and heard the first hand witnesses? Often you would think they were at different events. The truth is there are various reasons why these differences happen. Ever been to court sometimes first hand witness find out that they really didn't see things, quite the way they thought they did. I said it before many a person is sitting on death row because someone believed another's guess at what the truth was. No matter how much we may like someone ,it's not enough to convict someone without a fair hearing ,which is not a one sided one.
I agree to a point, but...
more than one person says "I was raped" or "one of my friends was raped" by right-reverend-so-and-so.
those who seem to be the ones labeled vp-worshippers (and I'm not advocating the name-calling here, I'm just stating the facts as I see them) say one of several things:
"I never saw it so it didn't happen"
or:
"he may have, I can't testify about that, but we need to focus on the word he taught!"
or:
it wasn't really rape, it was for her sexual healing. he believed he was doing the right thing."
those who seem to get labeled vp-worshippers who deny either the criminal wrong-doing of vpw OR the importance of the criminal wrong-doing of vpw, whether it is in regards to his sexual coercion/rape of young women, his use of drugs to enforce their cooperation, or his wide-spread theft of other researcher's materials. I can't see any other reason to deny these things unless for some reason vpw must remain spotless in their mind as some sort of idol.
I'm pretty new to the fellowship of believers at large, since most of the fellowship experience I've had since 1990 or so relates to one small group of believers, and things did not go well there. Many of my experiences in this small group seem to fit with a lot of the things people talk about here, in regards to TWI, but some of them do not. But I have no recent experience with TWI and I don't know who's in charge, what they're doing -etc. I don't have a need to get all updated on it either, Except as it may relate to helping someone.
As concerning specifics of what's been going on there:
sexual immorality- From the things I've heard I believe that there were BIG problems. I don't always know about specific instances I hear about, but some of the things I've heard are so credible that I am compelled to treat the accusations as true. If they are true, then when someone who is accused complains of "a personal attack", they are simply liars who have not come even close to being forgiven by the Lord; since they refuse to acknowledge that they've sinned. ( rom 13:13, gal 5:19-21, and 1 john 1:6-10) And I don't have the reference at hand but God's people are told to reprove darkness, not fellowship with it.
Now simply stated about myself, I've fallen short in these categories too, and I am not qualified to cast any stones as I am not without sin. But thats not the same problem as when a leader, someone responsible for the life and well-being of many people not only sins (like any man or woman has done) but also causes many to stumble, who should have not been taken advantage of. Then they lie, manipulates, ruin people lives, and causes the very life of the ministry to become corrupted by promoting their particular brand of darkness; the problem that they will have FROM the Lord..... well, I'd rather be in my shoes than theirs.
Now , if the accusation is false (still possible in a particular case) then that may qualify as a personal attack. The adversary is called the "slanderer of the brethren" after all. The best biblical advise I have to give to one who is falsly accused is to allow God to make it all o.k. in the end, as he did in the record of Joseph.
As a person who is on the outside looking in at the more recent things going on with TWI; it is one nasty mess in regards to these things. But I am confident that when the Lord himself deals with them, it'll all become very clear what happened, both in terms of specific accusations and the big picture.
In the mean time, I just don't have the stomach to look at accusations that are dirrected at people who've given me things that are good from God's word. It's not like I don't know that the accusations might be true, I do even have to admit that they often are most probably true. It's just that I'm thankful for the things in God's word, and thankful still for the ones who gave them to me,even if.......
Thanks for opening up this topic, and being willing to have peoples opinions posted. You've got the best opinion that I have to give.
I doubt that those who use the term "Wierwille Worshippers" believe that those who they paint with the term are literally worshipping Wierwille, i.e. setting up an altar, or praying to, or viewing him as God. It's hyperbole, or exaggeration to make a point. That doesn't mean that it's not a personal attack...I'm just sayin'...
Really? Please show me how the ones who went thru the abuse _personally_ are not FIRST HAND witnesses. ... That would be a neat trick. <_<
You need to reread what I said I never said that they were not. I said first hand witnesses accounts vary often at the same event., and there are reasons why that is.
I agree to a point, but...
more than one person says "I was raped" or "one of my friends was raped" by right-reverend-so-and-so.
those who seem to be the ones labeled vp-worshippers (and I'm not advocating the name-calling here, I'm just stating the facts as I see them) say one of several things:
"I never saw it so it didn't happen"
or:
"he may have, I can't testify about that, but we need to focus on the word he taught!"
or:
it wasn't really rape, it was for her sexual healing. he believed he was doing the right thing."
those who seem to get labeled vp-worshippers who deny either the criminal wrong-doing of vpw OR the importance of the criminal wrong-doing of vpw, whether it is in regards to his sexual coercion/rape of young women, his use of drugs to enforce their cooperation, or his wide-spread theft of other researcher's materials. I can't see any other reason to deny these things unless for some reason vpw must remain spotless in their mind as some sort of idol.
So how many does it take to convict someone of a crime? If I find two people to convict you will you serve the time ?
Any reference to someone as a VPster Vershipper is going to be extravagant and hyperbolic. Maybe even uberbolic.
That's the point. It's a way to label someone and put 'em down a couple pegs but not based on the matters being discussed. You idolize VPW because you agree with him and think he was right. About something.
You worship him. You wish he was still the MOG.You're an idolater.
BS.
That's not what you were talking about exactly dmiller, but it's in the same ballpark I think.
Waybrain is another one. I picture people running around grabbing their hair and slapping their foreheads. "Get out of my brain! Get out of my brain!!!"
I mean, geez, even when someone uses a word or phrase they used in the Way they get concerned, and feel they have to qualify using it. Is it because they're afraid they'll be labelled WAYBRAINED????
It's just another way of doing what everyone complains they didn't like.
"You're out of fellowship. You're possessed! Hey, you've got friends...don't talk to him, he's in Hog Country, he's plowing the Back 40, he's tripped out."
You need to reread what I said I never said that they were not. I said first hand witnesses accounts vary often at the same event., and there are reasons why that is.
of course, WD. I read lcm's first-hand account, and I imagine vpw's would go something like this:
investigator: please explain what happened, miss.
young believer woman: he invited me to his motor coach and asked me to minister to him, and the next thing I knew he was forcing me to have sex. is that rape?
investigator: if he forced you to have sex against your will, then it is rape. did he rape you?
young believer woman: yes, he raped me.
investigator: mr. vpw, did you force this woman to have sex with you?
vpw: no, I did not force her. gawd told me that she would be healed if we had sexual intercourse, and she never said no so I took her silence as obedience to gawd and a desire to experience spiritual healing at the hands of the man of gawd.
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cman
I think they just say so sometimes and that's enough.
That thread in 'about the way' started as a result of the actual things that happened.
And the revealing of those things.
The things they did were obviously not right from many perspectives.
Including and exceeding criminal law.
Which means that haven't made laws yet that cover the terrible things they did and still do.
Yeah, it was and is that bad.
You know, if there was just a law against adultery, that would stop some I think.
Or a law that if you give money and it's called a tithe, which is a biblical term.
(And has nothing to do with money but fruit)
The one's that receive these tithes that are money, should be taking good care of the tither with money.
And not a bunch of words by tape or auditorium or any other way.
Material physical and spiritual commitment from those that take this money should be required.
And documented.
Teach giving equals receiving by means of money being taken.
Should require the results being seen.
Too bad it's not a law.
Just look at the results of twi teachings.
To lie is one thing.
To lie for money is another. Taking it from those that believe it, but never see it.
Believing what was taught and not seeing it, can be documented and has.
Backup what is said with true results that benefit.
Or shut them down. And return what the takers didn't spend,
on themselves beyond basic needs,
like expensive cars and motorcycles and homes.
The takers were driving brand new cars.
The givers were doing good to have a car.
Or groceries and a good place to live.
There should be a generally equal standard of living.
Or it's a scam, no product was sold, just words for money.
Yeah the WFM Corporation should have been what it was called.
Pay me and I'll speak, whether my words work or not.
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Bumpy
I remember my "welcome" or should I say "initiation" here at gs some months ago regarding this subject. Since then, my skin has shall we (oriental) this one and say, "grown a bit thicker"! But a few old WC vets certainly made their thoughts known. Then things just moved on with I'm sure a few "eyes" watching my little postings from time to time.
For me, this aggression is related to the nature of things both past and present at the Spot.
People have for the most part, come from a difficult life experience, with anger and distrust as part of the baggage they carry. Individual personalities! (plural) also enter into the equation, as well as the Internet being the communication medium. If we were "mates" meeting for a barbie and a beer face to face, I think a lot of this perceived anger would not exist.
Resolving these issues may possibly means letting some of it be laughed at and/or ignored. People have bad days and sometimes push the wrong button w/o thinking, so pursuing it to the end just creates more turmoil.
Also, maybe it's more Christian and a lot easier to forgive and forget, and start a new more interesting thread...
Like the one about The Farm!
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year2027
God first
Beloved dmiller
God loves you my dear friend
first are you ok? and do not forget we love you
yes VPW worshipers call what we do here a Personal Attack but that not what we do
As you me and others agree we just tell the truth without name calling here
they are luckly this is not like some JW boards were Personal Attacks are ok
maybe this board is a attack on the Way ministry love for money and other things but
they can changed their ways and if they do it it would mean closeing their doors dividing the money with us other wise they do not line up with even that green card
What if we all took them to court and said ok " on the green card we sign give us right to take the foundation class free everytime its ran and in bussiness if they upgrade a class you get the upgrade version in place of the old one by bussiness law
for the next class 2,000 of us show up at a person door" then when the person did not welcome us we sue the cult for break of promise otherwise promising us something they have no control over
2000 laws suits would make ohio court have to pass it up to fed court because the paper work would cost to must
all we would need is a form legal paper were we just fill our name then mail it to be filled in court the Way would have to deal with it
even filling 2000 small claim cases for our money back because they are not standing behind their class promises would get the feds looking into them
small claim case cost about $35.00 in most places plus a small fee for the cops to serve the Way papers
and if the truth makes the Way evil devish VPW idol worshipers which puts them in place "so be it"
I for one would like to see one church that only wants enough money to take care of the Churches"s needs
If they the Way only asked for needs that would be a light bill, heat bill, and phone bill
so tithe in the Way should be .0001 per cent of one week income per every 100 people or so
other wise no church needs all that money
I do not recall Jesus Christ saying ok I will feed you but first hand me $10.00 a person because these two fishes were not free
Jesus Christ told the truth some times the Pharisee's did not like his words
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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socks
A man's wisdom gives him patience; it is to his glory to overlook an offense.
A hot-tempered man must pay the penalty; if you rescue him, you will have to do it again.
Being a discussion board, things do get discussed here don't they? It's difficult to separate an idea from the mind that bears it. What's it mean? What else does it mean?
There are some points of contention, basic ones, that will go round and round on this board forever. They're not compatible and don't meet somewhere down the line to agree to disagree.
Apparently if people are going to enter into these discussions they're going to have to accept a certain amount of acrimony. As a general rule I think that's accepted, a by product of the open discussion.
(Look at the phrase "vp worshippers" and the like is a very distasteful one as delivered. I'm sure those so branded wouldn't consider themselves so. But it's the term generated to label certain people because of their opinions, which in most cases don't actually involve worshipping vp)
A little bit of that goes a long way. I don't personally entertain large extended doses of that, anywhere. I certainly wouldn't here. I don't think it's healthy. It doesn't advance my thinking, my well being, my views big or small. Yet I do contribute some harsh, direct opinions at times, harsh if you're on the opposite side certainly.
There's a very simple reality that actually goes to one of the points thats often made around here - no one's got a gun to anyone's head, making them write what they write. We choose. I choose. You choose. They choose.
We make our own world, but we never do it alone. Others are involved. Working through, with, managing our relationships, is what it's all about. I'm not an expert, so I don't have a "magic bullet" I pull out of my ear to make every interaction successful. Muddling along long enough though this is what I've picked up.
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Oakspear
Sometimes the threshhold of what some consider personal attacks is ridiculously low.
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WhiteDove
Exactly socks, So the question begs if it's not true why do we need to bait someone with an obvious lie? Why do we need a name to call them? Don't they just have normal names like everyone else that we could refer to them by?
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WhiteDove
I'd have to disagree with you on this David- (notice I referred to you by your name not GreaseSpot Worshiper
)
Ever gone to a crime scene and heard the first hand witnesses? Often you would think they were at different events. The truth is there are various reasons why these differences happen. Ever been to court sometimes first hand witness find out that they really didn't see things, quite the way they thought they did. I said it before many a person is sitting on death row because someone believed another's guess at what the truth was. No matter how much we may like someone ,it's not enough to convict someone without a fair hearing ,which is not a one sided one.
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Ham
Some people just can't be happy unless they are in some kind of fight.
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socks
Food fight!
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Nero
Wheeee!
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GarthP2000
Really? Please show me how the ones who went thru the abuse _personally_ are not FIRST HAND witnesses. ... That would be a neat trick. <_<
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oldiesman
Yes! Which is why calling them docvic worshippers is a personal attack against their character. It is essentially accusing someone of idolatry. Unless you know that the person or people actually are worshipping Victor Paul Wierwille, it is entirely accusatory and speculative. Why use it? Exactly!
Even if someone WAS ACTUALLY worshipping Wierwille, to mention that on the forums is a personal attack.
Who cares?
It's like if someone was fat and you called them grossly obese on the forums. You could be absolutely correct, but why would you mention it?
What does the person's fatness have to do with the issues?
You can discuss FAT without calling the poster FAT.
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potato
I agree to a point, but...
more than one person says "I was raped" or "one of my friends was raped" by right-reverend-so-and-so.
those who seem to be the ones labeled vp-worshippers (and I'm not advocating the name-calling here, I'm just stating the facts as I see them) say one of several things:
"I never saw it so it didn't happen"
or:
"he may have, I can't testify about that, but we need to focus on the word he taught!"
or:
it wasn't really rape, it was for her sexual healing. he believed he was doing the right thing."
those who seem to get labeled vp-worshippers who deny either the criminal wrong-doing of vpw OR the importance of the criminal wrong-doing of vpw, whether it is in regards to his sexual coercion/rape of young women, his use of drugs to enforce their cooperation, or his wide-spread theft of other researcher's materials. I can't see any other reason to deny these things unless for some reason vpw must remain spotless in their mind as some sort of idol.
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JeffSjo
I'm pretty new to the fellowship of believers at large, since most of the fellowship experience I've had since 1990 or so relates to one small group of believers, and things did not go well there. Many of my experiences in this small group seem to fit with a lot of the things people talk about here, in regards to TWI, but some of them do not. But I have no recent experience with TWI and I don't know who's in charge, what they're doing -etc. I don't have a need to get all updated on it either, Except as it may relate to helping someone.
As concerning specifics of what's been going on there:
sexual immorality- From the things I've heard I believe that there were BIG problems. I don't always know about specific instances I hear about, but some of the things I've heard are so credible that I am compelled to treat the accusations as true. If they are true, then when someone who is accused complains of "a personal attack", they are simply liars who have not come even close to being forgiven by the Lord; since they refuse to acknowledge that they've sinned. ( rom 13:13, gal 5:19-21, and 1 john 1:6-10) And I don't have the reference at hand but God's people are told to reprove darkness, not fellowship with it.
Now simply stated about myself, I've fallen short in these categories too, and I am not qualified to cast any stones as I am not without sin. But thats not the same problem as when a leader, someone responsible for the life and well-being of many people not only sins (like any man or woman has done) but also causes many to stumble, who should have not been taken advantage of. Then they lie, manipulates, ruin people lives, and causes the very life of the ministry to become corrupted by promoting their particular brand of darkness; the problem that they will have FROM the Lord..... well, I'd rather be in my shoes than theirs.
Now , if the accusation is false (still possible in a particular case) then that may qualify as a personal attack. The adversary is called the "slanderer of the brethren" after all. The best biblical advise I have to give to one who is falsly accused is to allow God to make it all o.k. in the end, as he did in the record of Joseph.
As a person who is on the outside looking in at the more recent things going on with TWI; it is one nasty mess in regards to these things. But I am confident that when the Lord himself deals with them, it'll all become very clear what happened, both in terms of specific accusations and the big picture.
In the mean time, I just don't have the stomach to look at accusations that are dirrected at people who've given me things that are good from God's word. It's not like I don't know that the accusations might be true, I do even have to admit that they often are most probably true. It's just that I'm thankful for the things in God's word, and thankful still for the ones who gave them to me,even if.......
Thanks for opening up this topic, and being willing to have peoples opinions posted. You've got the best opinion that I have to give.
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Oakspear
I doubt that those who use the term "Wierwille Worshippers" believe that those who they paint with the term are literally worshipping Wierwille, i.e. setting up an altar, or praying to, or viewing him as God. It's hyperbole, or exaggeration to make a point. That doesn't mean that it's not a personal attack...I'm just sayin'...
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WhiteDove
You need to reread what I said I never said that they were not. I said first hand witnesses accounts vary often at the same event., and there are reasons why that is.
So how many does it take to convict someone of a crime? If I find two people to convict you will you serve the time ?
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socks
My point exactly OaKs.
Any reference to someone as a VPster Vershipper is going to be extravagant and hyperbolic. Maybe even uberbolic.
That's the point. It's a way to label someone and put 'em down a couple pegs but not based on the matters being discussed. You idolize VPW because you agree with him and think he was right. About something.
You worship him. You wish he was still the MOG. You're an idolater.
BS.
That's not what you were talking about exactly dmiller, but it's in the same ballpark I think.
Waybrain is another one. I picture people running around grabbing their hair and slapping their foreheads. "Get out of my brain! Get out of my brain!!!"
I mean, geez, even when someone uses a word or phrase they used in the Way they get concerned, and feel they have to qualify using it. Is it because they're afraid they'll be labelled WAYBRAINED????
It's just another way of doing what everyone complains they didn't like.
"You're out of fellowship. You're possessed! Hey, you've got friends...don't talk to him, he's in Hog Country, he's plowing the Back 40, he's tripped out."
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potato
of course, WD. I read lcm's first-hand account, and I imagine vpw's would go something like this:
investigator: please explain what happened, miss.
young believer woman: he invited me to his motor coach and asked me to minister to him, and the next thing I knew he was forcing me to have sex. is that rape?
investigator: if he forced you to have sex against your will, then it is rape. did he rape you?
young believer woman: yes, he raped me.
investigator: mr. vpw, did you force this woman to have sex with you?
vpw: no, I did not force her. gawd told me that she would be healed if we had sexual intercourse, and she never said no so I took her silence as obedience to gawd and a desire to experience spiritual healing at the hands of the man of gawd.
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excathedra
ppppphhhhhhttttttt
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Linda Z
Excellent posts, Socksness, excellent.
Bless you for making yourself available to share with us in this thread.
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cman
I'll second that Linda.
Thanks socks, you always seem to bring simple quieter living to see.
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frank123lol
In an ideal world people would have respect for one another.
This place was made for respectful discussions
That said peace to all
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Danny
Is it ok for me to be here?
After all I think I have called the
devil himself.
For sure I am guilty of pressing buttons.
I don't think I have purposely gone after
anyone.
Yes I want someone to change and admit what
they believe is wrong
or what they have put here in print is wrong.
Maybe with all this I will refine my methods.
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dmiller
For what it's worth -- I used the term "docvic worshippers" in lieu of mentioning any names here,
so that what I was saying WOULDN'T be construed as a personal attack against any one in particular.
And no --- I'm not trying to bring anyone *down a notch or two* by using the term either.
If someone (anyone) feels that term applies to them -- you know who you are!
Sorry if you think it a detrimental term -- I don't mean it that way. Never did, never will.
I use that term as nothing more than a means of identifying a GROUP of folks here at GSC,
who hold to his teachings/ ministry/ the way things were back then/ etc.
I don't think that's derogatory in the least. I don't know why others would either.
The only reason I can think of is guilty conscious -- maybe???
Since we are where we are, and we've all been *there* in the past -- I think the term is a valid one.
If someone wants to think I'm degrading others by using that term -- that's their problem, not mine.
As I said -- I have no beef with anyone here.
Merely trying to identify where the mud is being slung from.
By saying I see the *personal attack* agenda being brought up by one group in particular,
means just that, and nothing more. Do they have the right to do so on this discussion board??
Absolutely. Do I agree with what they have to say?? Nope.
Am I *dissing* them for doing so?? Nope.
Are they worse off because I *label* them?? Nope.
Can I be accused of *personally attacking* them for giving a name to the group?
In your dreams.
All I'm doing is saying that *personal attack* accusations seem to be coming from one *camp*,
and from one camp primarily. Nothing wrong with giving a label ---
and that's called "profiling", and not a personal attack.
Meebe this makes sense to you, meebe not.
Either way -- it's what I meant. :)
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