There's another alternative.. maybe the spouse just wants five minutes of undivided attention. Is that too big a thing to ask? "not now, woman, I'm busy with the tools, the boat, the house.."
I've seen this too.. some people can't handle demands for any kind of intimacy..
And every time she goes on one of her tirades the men present just disgustedly fold their arms and wait for the insanity to stop...or recharge, whatever it is. Me and Jean were watching recently and at one point I thought to myself, "God, someone ought to just smack that woman" but I didn't say it out loud. Not even 15 seconds later Jean says out loud, "God, someone ought to just smack that woman upside the head." Scary, isn't it?
Yes.. it is...
In this fictional account the men have found a way to 'deal with' the situation... and it doesn't involve violence and BOTH YOU and your WIFE think that 'someone should just smack her' instead???
No not confused at all rick, you read it and responded.
Have a good day, seriously.
Then maybe you won't take a dump on everyone here.
Thanks.
I dump on those who deserve it. Danny deserved dumping on for baiting as much as John deserves dumping on for his nasty profanity. Now you got a problem with me cman? Come on, bring it out...say what you got to say. Otherwise, leave me the hell alone. I personally don't like you or care to have any interaction with you. Is that clear enough for your little brain to comprehend?
I remember all the old shows where the man slaps the woman when she is angry or hysterical. I think we still see that in some cartoons now – someone is hyperventilating and their friend slaps them. They thank their friend for smacking them.
That doesn’t work in real life. If you want a real life example I can give you one.
It definitely doesn't relieve any tension.
I think you are just trying to get a reaction out of people at this point. If you aren't abusing your wife there is no way you believe what you are saying.
I think anyone who seriously believes that the Way doctrine was the greatest truth known since the First Century Church might want to evaluate their thoughts on what obedience to the head of the household really means.
Is this what it means, that the man has the 'right' to hit his wife if she is verbally irritating? John and apparantly Jean, believe that hitting someone solves this problem of irritating speach.
I say it just shuts up the speaker due to fear and pain--solves nothing, and teaches the lesson that physical violence is how you 'win.' Somehow, The J's seem to think that this action will bring peace to a troubled marriage and spouse.
Is this a healthy practice in marriage--or any relationship? Is it really so easy, a smack now and then keeps things and people on even keel, all is good and pleasant?
Decking people doesn't solve the problem. In the event of a physical threat, where you have to protect yourself or the other person from harm, meeting the threat appropriately works. That's where someone's attacking you or is such a threat that a physical attack of some kind is emminent.
Hitting people just makes everything worse. Anger, resentment, pain. And always remember - revenge served hot - or cold - is the same.
i mean wow, who i am i that you should speak with me?
bait don't work if the fish don't bite
bye
Clay, you really do have a low IQ don't you. YOU are the one who started in on me. I really don't care to interact with you so as I said, leave me alone. Otherwise, I will consider it harrassment.
Hey, maybe I should take lessons from anther poster and turn your posts overt to my attorny.
As to the topic, I can think of very few instances where it is proper for a man to hit a woman...all involving the man's life being in immediate danger.
John, if you feel otherwise, that a man has the right to hit a woman just for being annoying, then you are seriously messed up. I don't know that you really feel that way but your posts have led me to believe that. I hope I am incorrect. As far as me jumping on Danny for intentionally baiting, that still does not excuse the nasty language you used in response. No matter how you try to justify it.
Now if cman or anyone else has any nasty's to say to me, I probably won't respond cause I am in meetings the rest of the day, and will be going out this evening so I won't be back until tommorrow. In the mean time, fight nice kids. :)
Patterns like "the cycle of abuse" are measurable.
It's not an issue of "does that make me mad", or "that ain't right!". People do things that aren't right and that make us made and should stop.
It's an issue of how we solve our problems.
Keeping in mind, some may not be solvable for some people. Now, this week, maybe never.
Raising our children the best we can and by the best standards we can use and live is the most important part of this, IMO. Cycles start when we're young, and by example. We learn what we see, what we're told. What we copy, when we're little.
You can "make" a 5 year old do something, with force. Eventually that kid's going to be 15 and then 25. Force with a 5 year old isn't force with a 25 year old. But if the 5 year old sees and experiences physical force, abuse, as the way things get done, what have they learned?
And yeah, using TV shows and movies is a little thin, as far as setting up hypotheticals. Hollywood can do whatever it wants. That's not my world, or yours. It's on the screen, created. I have to create the one I live in.
I just don't believe that the proper response to biting words (from either gender) is a fist.
I agree. What I'd do is try to calmly reason with the person first, one on one. If that didn't work, I start yelling back. If that didn't work, I'd seek marriage counselling. If that didn't work, I'd leave. By that time, one would probably be thankful to leave anyway.
And yeah, using TV shows and movies is a little thin, as far as setting up hypotheticals. Hollywood can do whatever it wants. That's not my world, or yours. It's on the screen, created. I have to create the one I live in.
I agree... I think there is a lot more valid data out there on domestic abuse and the effects it has on relationships and child-rearing than what hollywood invents. my kids saw their dad "clocking" me for being irritating, because yes, God forbid, I wanted a bit of his time, in the middle of working two jobs and taking care of the kids and house, to talk about getting his help with some things. some people enjoy creating drama and hurting people, and pushing them to the point where they "deserve" clocking is part of their MO. if I'd understood that, the marriage would have ended shortly after it started, but I tried talking, I tried counseling. unfortunately, I became the bitch who needed clocking and now my older child is so messed up... I can't list the things he's been through because of it.
but really, johniam, it sounds like you'd consider me justified in punching my spouse in the face for his verbal tirades. after all, he would just go on and on about his day, his needs, his complaints until my patience was shredded, and I couldn't just walk out because I had kids to take care of. a good fist in the face might have shut him up... but then again, he's twice my size so I may not have walked away from the situation. it only works if you can physically bully the person irritating you, which is why women and children are *usually* the victims (but not always).
the more people feel it's ok to slap or punch someone who's irritating, the harder it is for the people being hurt to get help.
at this point i don't care what you consider anything, rick
you are a waste of good words today.....
and i wouldn't have said anything until you grouped everyone who posted on this thread as "12 year olds"
and gave your 'reasons' for not visiting this site much, but you do huh, bite that
low IQ, YOU are the one who started in on me. I really don't care to interact with you so as I said, leave me alone. Otherwise, I will consider it harrassment.
speaking of 12 year olds-you hit me first mwahhhhh....baby.....
Now if cman or anyone else has any nasty's to say to me, I probably won't respond cause I am in meetings the rest of the day, and will be going out this evening so I won't be back until tommorrow. In the mean time, fight nice kids.
only nastiness i see is from you and the j's....whoopeee, important guy-meetings, I'm certainly impressed-NOT
I remember being taught in twi, that if my husband ever hit me ...it was my fault....that if it ever occured, I should have never pushed him that far.
I remember being taught that if he ever committed adultery, it would have been my fault for not being sexy enough, appealing enough, inventive enough to hold his attention.
I remember believing this stuff....that it was up to me to be sharp enough to ward this stuff off.
If there was alcohol or abuse issues, squandered money issues....it was up to me to love him more, to pray for him more, but other than that I had no say so, no recourse, was not permitted any input.
This was taught as standard marriage conduct. This was what I was taught was required of a virtuous woman.
I wanted to be a virtuous woman, so I accepted whatever mistreatment was administered by tc, spouse, anyone...meekly and with humility, no matter how unwarranted, how unfair with the determination that I would try my hardest to do better.
We were taught this in twi, and it became part of our thinking process, to the point that I never ever questioned it`s validity.
One time John, you called me a pig making farting noises and demanded that I return to my husband and family who were required to put up with me. Yeah, later you apologized....kinda....but still maintained it was all my fault, *I* *I* *I* shouldnt` have made YOU so angry....
You have also asked me on occasion, what my husband would do or say if he knew what I posted here....I don`t know if that was a threat, or if you thought that I would be punished or not be allowed.....I just don`t know.
This is what is so upsetting about this mind set that we were taught in twi........that when someone loses control...when some one hurts another....when some one does the unthinkable to those whom we have been instructed to love....it is the person they *clock* whether it be physically or verbally...the person hurt ....some how deserved it.
The way we were taught in twi, makes any behavior no matter how inapropriate, damaging, or even outright cruel justifiable and acceptable.
That is the teaching that allows the false prophets of twi who ravaged lives a free pass.
God said love him and love your neighbor....what we were taught in twi, it seems is at complete odds with these instructions.
I know that we can find all sorts of ways to justify and excuse what we do, what others do...but if we want to present ourselves as Christians...it is time to examine what we do in light of what God deems appropriate.
Otherwise, it seems like we are just wearing the christian label .....like some kind of spiritual knock off...looking like the original, convincing ourselves that we are just as good as the original, at one tenth the investment.....but not the genuine...and not really able to fool anybody familiar with the genuine article.
I remember being taught in twi, that if my husband ever hit me ...it was my fault....that if it ever occured, I should have never pushed him that far.
I remember being taught that if he ever committed adultery, it would have been my fault for not being sexy enough, appealing enough, inventive enough to hold his attention.
I remember believing this stuff....that it was up to me to be sharp enough to ward this stuff off.
If there was alcohol or abuse issues, squandered money issues....it was up to me to love him more, to pray for him more, but other than that I had no say so, no recourse, was not permitted any input.
This was taught as standard marriage conduct. This was what I was taught was required of a virtuous woman.
this was what virtuous women were required to do because vpw lived that kind of life and God forbid a MOG's wife be anything but what the bible said they should be. vpw had an excuse for everything wrong he did, and by extension every man in twi could blame his wrongdoing on his wife. I'm really glad most didn't take it to the extremes like vpw and some of our husbands did. only 2 leaders out of the many I encountered recognized the fault wasn't mine. the rest lined up to stone me, and my ex had most of the body ready to line up with them.
this was what virtuous women were required to do because vpw lived that kind of life and God forbid a MOG's wife be anything but what the bible said they should be. vpw had an excuse for everything wrong he did, and by extension every man in twi could blame his wrongdoing on his wife. I'm really glad most didn't take it to the extremes like vpw and some of our husbands did. only 2 leaders out of the many I encountered recognized the fault wasn't mine. the rest lined up to stone me, and my ex had most of the body ready to line up with them.
your post is excellent, rascal.
"this is what virtuous women were required to do"?
"vpw lived that kind of life", "vpw had an excuse for everything wrong he did", and by extension every man in twi could blame...
WELCOME! Hopefully you won't judge us by how we deal with things?! Are you chuck full of advice or nuts? Just asking ....
It's all good. I would have to answer chock full of nuts. Whether that is referring to my brand preference for coffee, or a mental state is open for interpretation and probably varies from day to day and depends on who you talk to...
vpw had an excuse for everything wrong he did, and by extension every man in twi could blame his wrongdoing on his wife..
Absolutely, Potato... We were taught that we could indulge in most any behavior because this was the grace administration, that anybody who couldn`t handle it, just wasn`t spiritual enough....
There were excuses for ignoring every rule laid down for Christians...
There were excuses for why our leaders didn`t manifest the fruit of the spirit...
There were excuses why it wasn`t necessary for us to follow the instructions given in scripture.
I think that this creates a real problem. If you don`t believe that you are wrong...rarely are you going to make the necessary adjustments required.
We remain arrogant, entrenched in the mindset and behavior that continues to cause pain and hardship for others.
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oldiesman
cman, please stop the namecalling and personal attacks. I have reported your post to the mods.
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Ham
There's another alternative.. maybe the spouse just wants five minutes of undivided attention. Is that too big a thing to ask? "not now, woman, I'm busy with the tools, the boat, the house.."
I've seen this too.. some people can't handle demands for any kind of intimacy..
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Bluzeman
Cman, you have confused me with someone who really gives a crap about any of the stupidity that you type.
Rick
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Tom Strange
Yes.. it is...
In this fictional account the men have found a way to 'deal with' the situation... and it doesn't involve violence and BOTH YOU and your WIFE think that 'someone should just smack her' instead???
Yes, that is scary... very scary.
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cman
No not confused at all rick, you read it and responded.
Have a good day, seriously.
Then maybe you won't take a dump on everyone here.
Thanks.
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Bluzeman
I dump on those who deserve it. Danny deserved dumping on for baiting as much as John deserves dumping on for his nasty profanity. Now you got a problem with me cman? Come on, bring it out...say what you got to say. Otherwise, leave me the hell alone. I personally don't like you or care to have any interaction with you. Is that clear enough for your little brain to comprehend?
Rick
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Nero
I remember all the old shows where the man slaps the woman when she is angry or hysterical. I think we still see that in some cartoons now – someone is hyperventilating and their friend slaps them. They thank their friend for smacking them.
That doesn’t work in real life. If you want a real life example I can give you one.
It definitely doesn't relieve any tension.
I think you are just trying to get a reaction out of people at this point. If you aren't abusing your wife there is no way you believe what you are saying.
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cman
so quit talking to me rick
stay on your high minded bs
if ya like
your priviledge
i mean wow, who i am i that you should speak with me?
bait don't work if the fish don't bite
bye
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Bramble
I think anyone who seriously believes that the Way doctrine was the greatest truth known since the First Century Church might want to evaluate their thoughts on what obedience to the head of the household really means.
Is this what it means, that the man has the 'right' to hit his wife if she is verbally irritating? John and apparantly Jean, believe that hitting someone solves this problem of irritating speach.
I say it just shuts up the speaker due to fear and pain--solves nothing, and teaches the lesson that physical violence is how you 'win.' Somehow, The J's seem to think that this action will bring peace to a troubled marriage and spouse.
Is this a healthy practice in marriage--or any relationship? Is it really so easy, a smack now and then keeps things and people on even keel, all is good and pleasant?
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socks
Decking people doesn't solve the problem. In the event of a physical threat, where you have to protect yourself or the other person from harm, meeting the threat appropriately works. That's where someone's attacking you or is such a threat that a physical attack of some kind is emminent.
Hitting people just makes everything worse. Anger, resentment, pain. And always remember - revenge served hot - or cold - is the same.
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Ham
Revenge.. yeah..
I've heard stories..
You know, the "man" has to fall asleep, eventually..
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Bluzeman
Clay, you really do have a low IQ don't you. YOU are the one who started in on me. I really don't care to interact with you so as I said, leave me alone. Otherwise, I will consider it harrassment.
Hey, maybe I should take lessons from anther poster and turn your posts overt to my attorny.
As to the topic, I can think of very few instances where it is proper for a man to hit a woman...all involving the man's life being in immediate danger.
John, if you feel otherwise, that a man has the right to hit a woman just for being annoying, then you are seriously messed up. I don't know that you really feel that way but your posts have led me to believe that. I hope I am incorrect. As far as me jumping on Danny for intentionally baiting, that still does not excuse the nasty language you used in response. No matter how you try to justify it.
Now if cman or anyone else has any nasty's to say to me, I probably won't respond cause I am in meetings the rest of the day, and will be going out this evening so I won't be back until tommorrow. In the mean time, fight nice kids. :)
Rick
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socks
Well, sure. And even squirrels need sleep!
Patterns like "the cycle of abuse" are measurable.
It's not an issue of "does that make me mad", or "that ain't right!". People do things that aren't right and that make us made and should stop.
It's an issue of how we solve our problems.
Keeping in mind, some may not be solvable for some people. Now, this week, maybe never.
Raising our children the best we can and by the best standards we can use and live is the most important part of this, IMO. Cycles start when we're young, and by example. We learn what we see, what we're told. What we copy, when we're little.
You can "make" a 5 year old do something, with force. Eventually that kid's going to be 15 and then 25. Force with a 5 year old isn't force with a 25 year old. But if the 5 year old sees and experiences physical force, abuse, as the way things get done, what have they learned?
And yeah, using TV shows and movies is a little thin, as far as setting up hypotheticals. Hollywood can do whatever it wants. That's not my world, or yours. It's on the screen, created. I have to create the one I live in.
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WordWolf
I agree with Oldiesman.
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potato
I agree... I think there is a lot more valid data out there on domestic abuse and the effects it has on relationships and child-rearing than what hollywood invents. my kids saw their dad "clocking" me for being irritating, because yes, God forbid, I wanted a bit of his time, in the middle of working two jobs and taking care of the kids and house, to talk about getting his help with some things. some people enjoy creating drama and hurting people, and pushing them to the point where they "deserve" clocking is part of their MO. if I'd understood that, the marriage would have ended shortly after it started, but I tried talking, I tried counseling. unfortunately, I became the bitch who needed clocking and now my older child is so messed up... I can't list the things he's been through because of it.
but really, johniam, it sounds like you'd consider me justified in punching my spouse in the face for his verbal tirades. after all, he would just go on and on about his day, his needs, his complaints until my patience was shredded, and I couldn't just walk out because I had kids to take care of. a good fist in the face might have shut him up... but then again, he's twice my size so I may not have walked away from the situation. it only works if you can physically bully the person irritating you, which is why women and children are *usually* the victims (but not always).
the more people feel it's ok to slap or punch someone who's irritating, the harder it is for the people being hurt to get help.
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cman
at this point i don't care what you consider anything, rick
you are a waste of good words today.....
and i wouldn't have said anything until you grouped everyone who posted on this thread as "12 year olds"
and gave your 'reasons' for not visiting this site much, but you do huh, bite that
speaking of 12 year olds-you hit me first mwahhhhh....baby.....only nastiness i see is from you and the j's....whoopeee, important guy-meetings, I'm certainly impressed-NOT
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rascal
I remember being taught in twi, that if my husband ever hit me ...it was my fault....that if it ever occured, I should have never pushed him that far.
I remember being taught that if he ever committed adultery, it would have been my fault for not being sexy enough, appealing enough, inventive enough to hold his attention.
I remember believing this stuff....that it was up to me to be sharp enough to ward this stuff off.
If there was alcohol or abuse issues, squandered money issues....it was up to me to love him more, to pray for him more, but other than that I had no say so, no recourse, was not permitted any input.
This was taught as standard marriage conduct. This was what I was taught was required of a virtuous woman.
I wanted to be a virtuous woman, so I accepted whatever mistreatment was administered by tc, spouse, anyone...meekly and with humility, no matter how unwarranted, how unfair with the determination that I would try my hardest to do better.
We were taught this in twi, and it became part of our thinking process, to the point that I never ever questioned it`s validity.
One time John, you called me a pig making farting noises and demanded that I return to my husband and family who were required to put up with me. Yeah, later you apologized....kinda....but still maintained it was all my fault, *I* *I* *I* shouldnt` have made YOU so angry....
You have also asked me on occasion, what my husband would do or say if he knew what I posted here....I don`t know if that was a threat, or if you thought that I would be punished or not be allowed.....I just don`t know.
This is what is so upsetting about this mind set that we were taught in twi........that when someone loses control...when some one hurts another....when some one does the unthinkable to those whom we have been instructed to love....it is the person they *clock* whether it be physically or verbally...the person hurt ....some how deserved it.
The way we were taught in twi, makes any behavior no matter how inapropriate, damaging, or even outright cruel justifiable and acceptable.
That is the teaching that allows the false prophets of twi who ravaged lives a free pass.
God said love him and love your neighbor....what we were taught in twi, it seems is at complete odds with these instructions.
I know that we can find all sorts of ways to justify and excuse what we do, what others do...but if we want to present ourselves as Christians...it is time to examine what we do in light of what God deems appropriate.
Otherwise, it seems like we are just wearing the christian label .....like some kind of spiritual knock off...looking like the original, convincing ourselves that we are just as good as the original, at one tenth the investment.....but not the genuine...and not really able to fool anybody familiar with the genuine article.
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Bumpy
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=10924
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Bumpy
Abi, sorry the video 'expired'?, but Le Bump is still scraping by here in France.
Hope the 'ladies' of the cafe can turn up the volume! :)
All The Best
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potato
this was what virtuous women were required to do because vpw lived that kind of life and God forbid a MOG's wife be anything but what the bible said they should be. vpw had an excuse for everything wrong he did, and by extension every man in twi could blame his wrongdoing on his wife. I'm really glad most didn't take it to the extremes like vpw and some of our husbands did. only 2 leaders out of the many I encountered recognized the fault wasn't mine. the rest lined up to stone me, and my ex had most of the body ready to line up with them.
your post is excellent, rascal.
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Bumpy
"this is what virtuous women were required to do"?
"vpw lived that kind of life", "vpw had an excuse for everything wrong he did", and by extension every man in twi could blame...
"only 2 leaders out of the many"...
"the rest lined up to stone me"...
I think I'm beginning to understand the problem!
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chockfull
It's all good. I would have to answer chock full of nuts. Whether that is referring to my brand preference for coffee, or a mental state is open for interpretation and probably varies from day to day and depends on who you talk to...
;)
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waysider
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rascal
Absolutely, Potato... We were taught that we could indulge in most any behavior because this was the grace administration, that anybody who couldn`t handle it, just wasn`t spiritual enough....
There were excuses for ignoring every rule laid down for Christians...
There were excuses for why our leaders didn`t manifest the fruit of the spirit...
There were excuses why it wasn`t necessary for us to follow the instructions given in scripture.
I think that this creates a real problem. If you don`t believe that you are wrong...rarely are you going to make the necessary adjustments required.
We remain arrogant, entrenched in the mindset and behavior that continues to cause pain and hardship for others.
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