very true, rascal. I can remember many times when a leader in twi would flip out on someone, tear them up, only to discover they were wrong but never apologize, just give some flip answer or a public speech about "what we all learned from this situation" and excuse the whole thing away, then claim they "took care of" their victim's "heart" in front of anyone who's attention they could get, I'm assuming to maintain their sense of control. I had friends who left over the humiliation that was dished out to them, and why I never left can only be explained by the fear that imprisoned my soul over what would happen to me and my kids.
that's the example I saw far and wide in twi, and it was really hard for me to learn to say "I'm sorry, you didn't deserve what I said/did."
But that being said, intentionally baiting a poster is a very low and sleazy thing to do and I'm glad to know you are that kind of person Danny so I can avoid you. Oh, and don't pretend that vulger language offends you after your "bad bitch" post (which I reported).
This kind of crap is why I hardly ever visit this site anymore. Some of you act like 12 year old kids.
29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
29Let no foul or polluting language, nor evil word nor unwholesome or worthless talk [ever] come out of your mouth, but only such [speech] as is good and beneficial to the spiritual progress of others, as is fitting to the need and the occasion, that it may be a blessing and give grace (God's favor) to those who hear it.
I didn't see your comment as accomplishing anything close to the above. My first thought was, "And you kiss your wife with that mouth?"
johnUR:
"Matt. 15:12 - Then came his disciples and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
It doesn't say Jesus was vulgar. It doesn't say he was trying to be offensive, either, but it's clear he wasn't exactly trying to NOT offend them. Somewhere else it says Jesus called them whited sepulchres which outwardly appear white and beautiful but inwardly are full of dead men's bones. That time he WAS trying to be REALLY OFFENSIVE to them."
I personally wouldn't presume that Jesus was TRYING to be REALLY OFFENSIVE with them, nor would I use that to justify such vulgarity as what rolled off your fingertips.
Just my opinion.
~Cinder
With all respect, I think he WAS trying to offend them and the verse in Ephesians wasn't talking about vulgarity; the corrupt communication spoken of can be accomplished quite well without vulgarity. All the stuff in Ephesians and the other doctrinal epistles does not negate the need to occasionally protect yourself. Jesus said doctrinally to love your enemies. Did that matter when he said what I quoted? Did that matter when he told those guys you are of your father the devil?
What about Paul, who wrote what you quoted? Check out Acts 13: 45,46. You don't think it was offensive to those Jews for Paul to say they had put the word of the Lord from them, judged themselves unworthy of eternal life, and were now no better before God than the gentiles?
In a perfect world it's all Ephesians all the time, but....
quote: I happen to know Danny personally. He is incapable of understanding how someone could hit a woman, or think that behavior is okay. You have said stuff that is beyond his understanding, also.
And then you say...
quote: You think you know the man? You think he was raised in an environment that looked down on that behavior? You know NOTHING, bro.
Just how did he get "incapable of understanding" ANYTHING without an environment that taught him that? Are you accurately representing him or are you merely projecting your own "understanding" onto him?
When I am deliberately offensive in a retaliatory manner, I know that I am wrong in the eyes of God and don't try to justify it. I accept it as the sin that it is and try to do better.
See my last 2 posts.
Your method to conclusion also explains how one might justify beating or "clocking" a woman that "provokes" it. I guess that's Ok with God too.
"She provoked me Your Honor, so I clocked her. And God is ok with that."
I would never say that to a judge; in his/her court room, the judge IS God.
Yeah, Jesus offended the Pharisees with the truth of God's word, therefore it is "OK with God" to be offensively vugar or to smack women around if they " provoke" it.
Good thinking there John. You have it all figured out. Its a wonder how most of Christianity missed this little gem of truth.
VP would be proud.
In a recent post somewhere, someone made the point that to effectively portray something as evil, you have to "give evil a face". The Hallmark channel (the 'white people channel' as I like to call it) has been showing reruns of Little House on the Prairie. One character on that show is the face I will give to this evil. It's Harriet Oleson, who, with her husband, runs the grocery store in that town. She exhibits the exact behavior I've ranted about. Always going on bullying tirades publicly embarrassing her husband having a bad influence on her female children...what a God awful excuse for a human.
And every time she goes on one of her tirades the men present just disgustedly fold their arms and wait for the insanity to stop...or recharge, whatever it is. Me and Jean were watching recently and at one point I thought to myself, "God, someone ought to just smack that woman" but I didn't say it out loud. Not even 15 seconds later Jean says out loud, "God, someone ought to just smack that woman upside the head." Scary, isn't it?
All I've ever said is that men should have the right to physically defend themselves against an assault like that. All a man can do in a situation like that is either leave the house like someone escaping a rabid dog, or do what the men in Little House did, just sit there and take it, which will eventually erode any husband's ability to provide any meaningful leadership. This is wrong. Then the woman will say, "I can't follow your leadership because you're not much of a man" or something like that. Can anyone say "snares and nets"?
Seriously, Goey, what do you do if confronted with that? You have posted a nice little stained glass window style condemnation of my thoughts, but what would YOU do?
quote:Am I enough of a jerk that you just assumed I was WC? And so, my friends, there you have it, a lesson in how to launch an offensive assault without actually launching an offensive assault.
Paraphrase of the bolded area:
"If you were in the WC, you are a jerk."
Nope, never said "WC were jerks.
Now wait a minute, Waysider. I've posted before that in TWI, the people who've blessed me the most AND po'd me the most were WC. Plus, there are many posts to that effect by others. Presumptuous, maybe, but offensive assault? Please.
WHY is smacking anyone upside the head a solution?
I mean - we're talking verbal tirades here, not hand-to-hand combat....
Again, nice condemnation of my thoughts, but what is YOUR solution (if you can even be objective)?
You know John, I've been yelled at -A LOT! I've been the target of the kind of rants you described earlier - A LOT!
I'm 50 years old, but I have yet to smack anyone upside the head for saying or doing anything that irritated me. I usually walk away, or I give the person an earful myself. IMO hitting would only escalate an already volatile situation.
NOW - perhaps you meant "smack upside the head" figuratively.... as in "get their attention."
You're not going to offer YOUR solution, are you? Walk away? Yell? That only seems to prolong the tension.
quote: NOW - perhaps you meant "smack upside the head" figuratively.... as in "get their attention."
I know that Harriet Oleson is a fictional character, and I've rarely seen any woman carry on like that in real life, but, no. In her case, I think if her husband just hauled off and decked her a couple of times, her behavior would change a lot. Nobody would complain if a man who repeatedly hit his wife for no reason was decked a couple of times.
One last "Ps" here. Should a man decide to *clock* a woman/ wife up here in Minney-soda,
It's called by it's proper name --- Domestic Abuse.
Not sure what the law is there in St. Louis, but I'm guessing it's pretty much the same.
Whatcha gonna tell the arresting officer?? "I'm under Grace, and not the law??"
Tell that to the cop that pulls you over for speeding, and see how far it get's you.
I actually know a believer who got pulled over and told the cop "I'm a son of God". The cop answered "I don't care if you're a son of a bitch, License and registration, please". He did NOT get a ticket.
No reason means no reason. We see it on TV enough times; a man gets to the point emotionally where frequently he'll come home drunk and she'll try to be nice and after 2 sentences he hits her and then later somebody finds the guy and punches him a couple times and tells him to leave her alone or else. Good TV. The only thing missing is that women abuse men, too. Not good TV, apparently, unless it's followed by canned laughter <_< .
Don't worry, it'll never be legal for men to hit women unless she's trying to kill him and there's 3 witnesses. I'm just saying there's a problem and I don't think I'm the only one who can see it.
John - My solution worked for me. It still works for me.
I'm not accusing you here but I do wonder... have you seen any positive results from YOUR solution? Or is your solution merely a theory that you like to spout because it gets a rise from Greasespotters?
I for one am not going to attempt to convince you that you're wrong about "clocking" women who verbally get on your nerves. You've made up your mind. You've made it clear beyond any possibility of misunderstanding what your position is.
However, I see nothing wrong with anyone on this board bringing it up. Heck, I'll bring it up if I feel so inclined.
You asked for a solution in those "Harriet Oleson" situations: You think that there's one solution? It depends on the situation, the people involved, the subject matter...If the marriage is one that is salvageable, where the two still love each other, wouldn't waiting until the moment had passed and people had cooled down, and explaining the effect of the other's biting words be an option? If a loving approach is not an option, then perhaps a divorce is what the solution is. In my opinion, violence is at best a temporary solution; sure the missus may shut up while she's busy wiping up the blood from the newly removed front tooth, but that won't build resentment? Make things worse? Then you have to be willing to repeatedly use violence. Nice marriage. I don't expect you to accept my possible solution. If the past is any guide you'll find what you consider a loophole in my logic and continue to justify violence. Like I said, I'm not trying to convince you, but you asked.
In case you're wondering, I'm not a pacifist and I don't feel that women are better or more frail then men. If physically attacked by a woman I'd defend myself just as if I was attacked by a man. I just don't believe that the proper response to biting words (from either gender) is a fist.
I just don't believe that the proper response to biting words (from either gender) is a fist.
I agree. What I'd do is try to calmly reason with the person first, one on one. If that didn't work, I start yelling back. If that didn't work, I'd seek marriage counselling. If that didn't work, I'd leave. By that time, one would probably be thankful to leave anyway.
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WordWolf
Is it really THAT hard to admit one has an anger problem, and difficulty responding in healthy ways to things one dislikes?
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rascal
Well, not when one`s religious beliefs make excuse and justification for outragious or unchristian behavior acceptible.
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potato
very true, rascal. I can remember many times when a leader in twi would flip out on someone, tear them up, only to discover they were wrong but never apologize, just give some flip answer or a public speech about "what we all learned from this situation" and excuse the whole thing away, then claim they "took care of" their victim's "heart" in front of anyone who's attention they could get, I'm assuming to maintain their sense of control. I had friends who left over the humiliation that was dished out to them, and why I never left can only be explained by the fear that imprisoned my soul over what would happen to me and my kids.
that's the example I saw far and wide in twi, and it was really hard for me to learn to say "I'm sorry, you didn't deserve what I said/did."
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Bluzeman
Johniam was wrong. Way over the top.
But that being said, intentionally baiting a poster is a very low and sleazy thing to do and I'm glad to know you are that kind of person Danny so I can avoid you. Oh, and don't pretend that vulger language offends you after your "bad bitch" post (which I reported).
This kind of crap is why I hardly ever visit this site anymore. Some of you act like 12 year old kids.
Rick
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Bumpy
But Rick, don't forget, we're all in this together, right to the end...!
So don't buckout on us 12 year olds, after all, what comes later is just... "teenage wasteland"!
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Abigail
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irisheyes
I WANNA BE A ROCK STAR!
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Bumpy
Thanks Abi, but this was/is more like bumpy!
http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=...=1&border=0
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Abigail
ROFLOL - Bumpy, it said the video is no longer available. Are you trying to let the women of the cafe know? ;)
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johniam
With all respect, I think he WAS trying to offend them and the verse in Ephesians wasn't talking about vulgarity; the corrupt communication spoken of can be accomplished quite well without vulgarity. All the stuff in Ephesians and the other doctrinal epistles does not negate the need to occasionally protect yourself. Jesus said doctrinally to love your enemies. Did that matter when he said what I quoted? Did that matter when he told those guys you are of your father the devil?
What about Paul, who wrote what you quoted? Check out Acts 13: 45,46. You don't think it was offensive to those Jews for Paul to say they had put the word of the Lord from them, judged themselves unworthy of eternal life, and were now no better before God than the gentiles?
In a perfect world it's all Ephesians all the time, but....
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johniam
quote: I happen to know Danny personally. He is incapable of understanding how someone could hit a woman, or think that behavior is okay. You have said stuff that is beyond his understanding, also.
And then you say...
quote: You think you know the man? You think he was raised in an environment that looked down on that behavior? You know NOTHING, bro.
Just how did he get "incapable of understanding" ANYTHING without an environment that taught him that? Are you accurately representing him or are you merely projecting your own "understanding" onto him?
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johniam
In a recent post somewhere, someone made the point that to effectively portray something as evil, you have to "give evil a face". The Hallmark channel (the 'white people channel' as I like to call it) has been showing reruns of Little House on the Prairie. One character on that show is the face I will give to this evil. It's Harriet Oleson, who, with her husband, runs the grocery store in that town. She exhibits the exact behavior I've ranted about. Always going on bullying tirades publicly embarrassing her husband having a bad influence on her female children...what a God awful excuse for a human.
And every time she goes on one of her tirades the men present just disgustedly fold their arms and wait for the insanity to stop...or recharge, whatever it is. Me and Jean were watching recently and at one point I thought to myself, "God, someone ought to just smack that woman" but I didn't say it out loud. Not even 15 seconds later Jean says out loud, "God, someone ought to just smack that woman upside the head." Scary, isn't it?
All I've ever said is that men should have the right to physically defend themselves against an assault like that. All a man can do in a situation like that is either leave the house like someone escaping a rabid dog, or do what the men in Little House did, just sit there and take it, which will eventually erode any husband's ability to provide any meaningful leadership. This is wrong. Then the woman will say, "I can't follow your leadership because you're not much of a man" or something like that. Can anyone say "snares and nets"?
Seriously, Goey, what do you do if confronted with that? You have posted a nice little stained glass window style condemnation of my thoughts, but what would YOU do?
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doojable
WHY is smacking anyone upside the head a solution?
I mean - we're talking verbal tirades here, not hand-to-hand combat....
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johniam
quote:Am I enough of a jerk that you just assumed I was WC? And so, my friends, there you have it, a lesson in how to launch an offensive assault without actually launching an offensive assault.
Paraphrase of the bolded area:
"If you were in the WC, you are a jerk."
Nope, never said "WC were jerks.
Now wait a minute, Waysider. I've posted before that in TWI, the people who've blessed me the most AND po'd me the most were WC. Plus, there are many posts to that effect by others. Presumptuous, maybe, but offensive assault? Please.
Again, nice condemnation of my thoughts, but what is YOUR solution (if you can even be objective)?
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doojable
You know John, I've been yelled at -A LOT! I've been the target of the kind of rants you described earlier - A LOT!
I'm 50 years old, but I have yet to smack anyone upside the head for saying or doing anything that irritated me. I usually walk away, or I give the person an earful myself. IMO hitting would only escalate an already volatile situation.
NOW - perhaps you meant "smack upside the head" figuratively.... as in "get their attention."
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johniam
You're not going to offer YOUR solution, are you? Walk away? Yell? That only seems to prolong the tension.
quote: NOW - perhaps you meant "smack upside the head" figuratively.... as in "get their attention."
I know that Harriet Oleson is a fictional character, and I've rarely seen any woman carry on like that in real life, but, no. In her case, I think if her husband just hauled off and decked her a couple of times, her behavior would change a lot. Nobody would complain if a man who repeatedly hit his wife for no reason was decked a couple of times.
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dmiller
Thought that last line worth repeating. ;)
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dmiller
Woops -- fergot to add -- please define *No Reason*, eh??? <_<
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dmiller
One last "Ps" here. Should a man decide to *clock* a woman/ wife up here in Minney-soda,
It's called by it's proper name --- Domestic Abuse.
Not sure what the law is there in St. Louis, but I'm guessing it's pretty much the same.
Whatcha gonna tell the arresting officer?? "I'm under Grace, and not the law??"
Tell that to the cop that pulls you over for speeding, and see how far it get's you.
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johniam
I actually know a believer who got pulled over and told the cop "I'm a son of God". The cop answered "I don't care if you're a son of a bitch, License and registration, please". He did NOT get a ticket.
No reason means no reason. We see it on TV enough times; a man gets to the point emotionally where frequently he'll come home drunk and she'll try to be nice and after 2 sentences he hits her and then later somebody finds the guy and punches him a couple times and tells him to leave her alone or else. Good TV. The only thing missing is that women abuse men, too. Not good TV, apparently, unless it's followed by canned laughter <_< .
Don't worry, it'll never be legal for men to hit women unless she's trying to kill him and there's 3 witnesses. I'm just saying there's a problem and I don't think I'm the only one who can see it.
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doojable
John - My solution worked for me. It still works for me.
I'm not accusing you here but I do wonder... have you seen any positive results from YOUR solution? Or is your solution merely a theory that you like to spout because it gets a rise from Greasespotters?
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Oakspear
Johniam:
I for one am not going to attempt to convince you that you're wrong about "clocking" women who verbally get on your nerves. You've made up your mind. You've made it clear beyond any possibility of misunderstanding what your position is.
However, I see nothing wrong with anyone on this board bringing it up. Heck, I'll bring it up if I feel so inclined.
You asked for a solution in those "Harriet Oleson" situations: You think that there's one solution? It depends on the situation, the people involved, the subject matter...If the marriage is one that is salvageable, where the two still love each other, wouldn't waiting until the moment had passed and people had cooled down, and explaining the effect of the other's biting words be an option? If a loving approach is not an option, then perhaps a divorce is what the solution is. In my opinion, violence is at best a temporary solution; sure the missus may shut up while she's busy wiping up the blood from the newly removed front tooth, but that won't build resentment? Make things worse? Then you have to be willing to repeatedly use violence. Nice marriage. I don't expect you to accept my possible solution. If the past is any guide you'll find what you consider a loophole in my logic and continue to justify violence. Like I said, I'm not trying to convince you, but you asked.
In case you're wondering, I'm not a pacifist and I don't feel that women are better or more frail then men. If physically attacked by a woman I'd defend myself just as if I was attacked by a man. I just don't believe that the proper response to biting words (from either gender) is a fist.
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cman
Pm me your address johniam and I'll have the Law at your door to check this out.
If you are hitting anyone, including a woman or your wife, you are in deep trouble buddy.
Come near to me and I'll have you arrested based on this thread alone.
Little Punk. And seriously mentally ill.
And btw Rick/Bluzeman-there are other threads that are not like this one.
But you apparently are attracted to these kind and give your 2 cents.
Plenty of other threads that involve better things.
Do what you want and blame threads like this if you want.
Start a thread you like or join one you like.
Or go away.
I've seen 12 year olds, smarter then you may think.
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oldiesman
I agree. What I'd do is try to calmly reason with the person first, one on one. If that didn't work, I start yelling back. If that didn't work, I'd seek marriage counselling. If that didn't work, I'd leave. By that time, one would probably be thankful to leave anyway.
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