to accuse a person of rape or to imply they have been arrested for rape is slander and can be prosecuted .
Not quite.
To accuse FALSELY someone of rape, etc., is slander (unless it's in a written medium, in which case it's libel). Even then, to prosecute someone for slander or libel requires that the alleged slander involve malicious intent. If someone is simply mistaken, his comments cannot be construed as slander.
on a side note about what people an know about one another..
I was at a meeting for people networking , this shocked me, but it is true.
this kid really a young man in his twenties said he had just got out of prison , and need to know where a certain court was . i didnt recognize the circuit court and asked why.
ok and this is the part that killed.
dude just walked out of prison (for drugs felony) with a lengthy a record .
so he was asking if he needed to check that little box on the job application if you have ever been convicted for a crime.
she said no.
he didnt ? he just came out of prison???
he needed to go to this court and asked the judge to sign a release of some sort saying he did not have to tell of his conviction on the application .
no big deal that is what he had to do when he went to prison before !ok then!
wow . i was amazed that is even possible ! his was drugs i am sure the judge would reconsider if it was a violent crime like murder or rape.. but still.
so we really do not know we are dealing with in society even with checks and balance.
I do suppose it is right or eles we would be feeding the dude for free his entire life either on welfare or in the prison, this would give him a chance. In new york with three strikes your out policy a convicted felon 3 times is not alowed to stay in this state, he must be removed to another state, he can not collect any money or aids etc.. even if he has done the time.
I see a lot of interesting responses and dialog happening here between people. It only goes to prove that many think they are on this great mission for Jesus Christ (whether it is to expose TWI, or to prove they're doctrinally wrong, or whatever else) but do any of you really understand and know why Christianity today is so pathetic? It's mainly because Christians don't truly love one another.
Oh yeah, we're all on this great mission today to "save the world" from TWI or from something else we feel that is real horrible and bad. There are a lot of great missionary societies out there, but the reason they don't really have a message is because they don't truly love one another. We don't have a message of anything that is more powerful for the looking, seeking, world or any other religion that's out there simply because we are not truly loving one another. What do we really have to give to one another?
Jesus Christ said, "A new command I give you, that you love one another as I have loved you." Why did he say that? Why did Jesus Christ say that it is so important to love one another? Well, he gave the answer right there in God's Word - By this all men will know that you are my disciples - if you love one another. O.K. Did Jesus Christ say that people would know that we are something different because of our particular commitment to a cause or because of our sacrifices? No. He said what wil make us stand out to the world is the kind of relationships that you have with one another while you are reaching the world. That is what will make the world marvel.
I realize there is a whole teaching or doctrine out there that is very popular today called, "POWER EVANGELISM". Anyone familiar with the phrase? The idea in "Power Evangelism" is that you have to be a miracle worker to be an effective evangelist in foreign countries. That is what really gets peoples attention with the gospel if you can heal someone of a physical ailment while you're preaching the gospel to them. Well, it only works for a short period of time.
But the reason I am writing is to remind you and to tell you that the miracle that Jesus Christ gave to us to prove to this world that we truly have God, is our love for one another. I would rather demonstrate to this busted, broken down, beaten weary world a supernatural acceptance, forgiveness, and respect for my Christian brother that is right next to me than I would want to perform a physical miracle on someone. Why? Because the world knows even witch doctors can perform miracles! The devil himself can do miracles, but only Christians can really love people. That's our ace in the hole. That's the only thing we have that the rest of this world doesn't have - is that we can really love people. So what happens when we don't?
When we don't - then we really don't have much of a mission. That is why Jesus Christ said, "No greater love than this - that I would lay down my life for --- who? A stranger? Is that what he said? Or for an enemy? Is that what he said? No. He said, "There is no greater love than this, that you would lay your life down for your friends.
It's like I have been trying to tell you earlier and all along - and the real reason I started this thread topic. It's because: YOU KNOW THEM! Jesus Christ understood that. He knew that as we got close to one another that there is going to come a point in our relationships with each other that we are going to STOP liking one another, because man --- There's just something that this person did that really offended me!
That's right. I don't like "this thing" about "that person." This person makes me uncomfortable - or whatever other excuse you would make to cool your relationship with that person or whatever other excuse you would make to get out of that situation. I DON'T WANT TO BE WITH THAT PERSON --- Well, that's the point where you stop liking them and you got to start loving them. That is where love begins - where liking ends.
Many people find this out when they get married. You marry that girl because you really like her, but the only thing that will keep you married is that you're going to love her even when you don't like her. That's right. You're not always going to like her (or like him). That's why you have to learn how to love her (or to love him). That's the model that Jesus Christ gave to us.
Yes that is the model Jesus gave to us, but when people get into ministry they often end up believing the mission is much more important than the relationship. NO! We don't have a mission if we don't have the relationships. Yes, I understand that there are legitimate and biblical reasons why one should leave a marriage or even leave their church. There are legitamate and biblical reasons for both. But one should be very, very careful in making those decisions. DON'T EVER let it be because of a lack of love on your part. I know there are matters of conscious. If someone asks you to do something that violates your conscious and if you can't work it out with them - then yes, that may be a very good and valid reason to leave that relationship or leave that church. Men of God aren't perfect, but if they have a lifestyle that you don't respect, then God certainly doesn't expect you to follow them. So there are legitimate reasons why one would leave a marriage or leave a church.
But then again, what are the things that would tempt you to leave and sacrifice the relationships you have with them? There may come a point where you think if I left these people it wouldn't be a big deal, but there may eventually come a day when you realize what's really important - the relationship. IT'S NOT WHAT 'I' WANTED TO DO, it was the relationship. That's the will of God right there - in the relationship. Some people may say, "Well "so-and-so" offended me, and it's just easier for me to go find another church or to find another relationship somewhere else". Is that a reason God will agree with?
OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE OFFENDED!!! We're humans and we're not perfect. As you get close and you become best friends with someone then you're going to become offended. You're not going to become best friends with anyone who has never offended you. If your best friend has never offended you, then I would say that you're not best friends yet. It's not until they "tick-you-off" and you've got to accept them and love them anyway - that well, now you're talking. You don't know what best friends are until that happens. The question I want to ask is, "Do you have that in your life?" Well, you got to have people in your life that can offend you like that. Many times its a good thing to be offended because that means you're getting close. That means we're getting beyond just liking each other and we're starting to learn to love one another.
I know its so much more comfortable to be where everybody just likes one another. But is that what "authentic Christianity" is about? Where everybody just likes one another? NO! No it's not, and truthfully speaking, I don't like everybody here nor do I like everybody that is around me either. (I'm not going to name names.) But authentic Christianity shows up only when you're NOT getting along - when you're NOT liking one another and you're learning to love one another.
Why do people join a church anyway? People join a church because they like the church, but people will stay with a church because they love it. If you just join a church because you like it, then what are you going to do when they do something you don't like? When you don't like them anymore? You're going to leave. I've seen that happen over and over too.
I personally know a pastor in a small community, and as pastors they get together about once a month and they talk about different people. They know who the "church hoppers" are. They say, "Hey, so-and-so left my church - they'll probably be showing up in your church next." Sure enough, they do. They know who they are. They're never happy because they're just looking for a church that they're going to like instead of love. There's a big difference there. The devil will always give you a reason to leave a church you like. Maybe someone reproves you for something. You start getting close to people and they start getting close to you, and then they point out something in your life and it kind of hurts. It hurts for a couple reasons. It hurts because:
1. Gee, they exposed me ... and
2. You know it's right. You know that it's true and it hurts. So - are you going to leave?
If you have a friend like that, then they are good as gold. A person who loves you enough to tell you when you're wrong is a gold mine. Don't ever leave that. It's such a valuable thing, but you're going to be tempted to think, "They did that because they don't like me, or they did that because they are judging me." No. Most of the time people aren't talking about that stuff unless they really love you. It takes a lot of "gumption" to confront people about sin or a need in their life. I sure don't like doing it. Most pastors don't like doing it because they want people to like them all the time. But I know from God's Word there are times I will have to confront people who may have offended me, so I must do it if I am going to stand approved before God. Sometimes people don't know how much I love them, so they leave, and they make a big mistake because they had someone in their life that loved them enough to tell them when they were wrong.
In the Old Testament David needed a man like that. He didn't have anyone who would stand up to him and tell him when he was wrong. Proverbs 27:6 says, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." What do you want? Do you just want to be "kissed" by everybody? They sure did a lot of that in TWI. But I really don't want that in my life, that "love-bombing" kind of stuff.
Do you have a friend in your life you can trust to wound you? Then that's valuable stuff. That's growing up. If you don't want someone in your life telling you that you're wrong, then you need to grow up because you need that for the long haul. Maybe you left a church or a relationship because you wanted to fully develop your potential, or because the people you fellowshipped with didn't appreciate you enough or what you have to offer. I've been tempted that way before. It's kind of twisted thinking because God gave us our talents and abilities to operate within a body. They don't work if your not linked into a body. Many people left the body just for the purpose to "serve somewhere else" simply because they felt they weren't appreciated, but in reality they left the body hanging and deserted. That's essentially what the apostle Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 13 - "Oh yeah, you have talent and you have great abilities. But they really don't amount to anything and they are worthless simply because you don't have love.
There are so many people in Christianity today going from church to church just to be able to use their talents. Maybe you don't realize it because you don't have much exposure to "Amercanized Christianity." I mean, do also realize how many pastors who also go from church to church with the idea of "personal advancement?" Even they are "church-hopping so they can reach their fullest potential! And they're using the church. They're acting as if the people in this church exist for me - for them to advance my gifts. It's so twisted and upside down. I got to go where my gifts and talents and abilities can be best utilized. I got to be faithful to what Jesus has given me by abandoning the saints. It's really a sick thing, and not very biblical. I don't know what they're thinking when they go from church to church. I really don't know. Do you think they really love those people? I don't think so. And do they really have a best friend in the church themselves? No way. And they don't have men around them and because of that they are lonely and that is often the reason why they fail. It's them and the elder board, and they don't get along with the elder board, so they got to go to the next church. These are pastors. So what do you think is happening in the body of believers?
They are missing it. They are missing it big time.
on a side note about what people an know about one another..
I was at a meeting for people networking , this shocked me, but it is true.
this kid really a young man in his twenties said he had just got out of prison , and need to know where a certain court was . i didnt recognize the circuit court and asked why.
ok and this is the part that killed.
dude just walked out of prison (for drugs felony) with a lengthy a record .
so he was asking if he needed to check that little box on the job application if you have ever been convicted for a crime.
she said no.
he didnt ? he just came out of prison???
he needed to go to this court and asked the judge to sign a release of some sort saying he did not have to tell of his conviction on the application .
no big deal that is what he had to do when he went to prison before !ok then!
wow . i was amazed that is even possible ! his was drugs i am sure the judge would reconsider if it was a violent crime like murder or rape.. but still.
so we really do not know we are dealing with in society even with checks and balance.
I do suppose it is right or eles we would be feeding the dude for free his entire life either on welfare or in the prison, this would give him a chance. In new york with three strikes your out policy a convicted felon 3 times is not alowed to stay in this state, he must be removed to another state, he can not collect any money or aids etc.. even if he has done the time.
but still! wow i was surprised.
Sounds as if he simply filed to have his records expunged...As long as it's not a federal crime/conviction, I think it can be done in every state, with each state having their own eligibility requirements.
A lot of things are here at GSC in black and white too.
Go look them up or shut up.
But no you would rather make war then have answers and actually help people.
Anything else you say I will consider putrid.
Because of the intent behind it.
Ok ,so you only want to see things that support your view and ignore the rest to bad that the facts get in the way. hey you are the one that pointed out the websites not me and nnow your unhappy because they don't agree and support your anti way views.. Oh well...................
Here's another one they shuffled around till he found the "right place" in der ministry..
Ok ,so you only want to see things that support your view and ignore the rest to bad that the facts get in the way. hey you are the one that pointed out the websites not me and nnow your unhappy because they don't agree and support your anti way views.. Oh well...................
I thought you might enjoy this little website article??
This is what happens when a wrong doing is voiced.
No this is what happens when you accuse people of crimes that they have not been charged with and refer to them as guilty without the benefit of legal representation and a fair hearing and because it just grates on your nerves to refer to them as alleged as most anyone knows that you should but that just isn't evil sounding enough to suit your agenda so you just make s**t up. Its pretty simple just say alleged because that is what the proper terminology is..
A lot of employers now do background checks. Wouldn't a drug conviction come up in a background check?
Actualy alot places do not do "background checks as they are expensive. yes the "better jobs would but a CNA in a nursing home is asumed to have had a "background check" Well the check is within the time of their certification, and most recertify with employers!
if you get that ? in other words if your working as a nurse or a CNA your employer is responsible to recertify it is just a matter of a paper or a web site in which the employer says the employee is working as such and has complied with all in house training, boom recertification!
no background check is done. yes you may have been convincted of a felonyin the past two or three years your certification has run but if not reported to the employer and it isnt required for the courts to report who knew?
even then it would be discrimination and a fight if they were already employed
if you apply to a new job the "background check they look at is a web site which states whether your license or certifcation is in good standing meaning you have not been found guilty of abuse ON THE JOB .
if you have six rape charges and a drug charge outside of your capacity as a CNA it is not on that check!! it is only the background of you as a CNA and whether the state has ever filed charges on you as a CNA. or nurse etc.
huh????? true . scary .
some do a background check but in NY a check takes at least four months for the state to process and with the turn over of personal on nursing homes it is more of a fine or trouble from the state to have short staff than to have staff that is guilty of past criminal activities. so they work until the check comes back... and then they can be dismissed if it is too bad BUT they can just go to the next home as that employer is not allowed to release that private information about the individual to another employer.
and it begins all over again.
but anyways back to the young man and would his convinction show up on a background check Well i do not know if the judge orders that it is just for the application or if it is all together not going to show up if they do a criminal background check! i asked my daughter who hires and fires and she said that is why her company doesnt even bother with the criminal checks any more!
expunged means the record is swpt clean, then why the records of convictions? i was very ssurprised i tell ya.
Suppose for a moment there were no laws governing rape and sexual misconduct, would that make these occurrences any less heinous?
No it would not, But everyone deserves due process, the system is not perfect far from it, but it none the less is what we have. We have people fighting for our rights paying a dear price I wont see them trampled on just to satisfy someones agenda to make everything spoken about The Way evil. i said it before there is enough documentable problems to discuss.
No this is what happens when you accuse people of crimes that they have not been charged with and refer to them as guilty without the benefit of legal representation and a fair hearing and because it just grates on your nerves to refer to them as alleged as most anyone knows that you should but that just isn't evil sounding enough to suit your agenda so you just make s**t up. Its pretty simple just say alleged because that is what the proper terminology is..
No, sorry, no dice. It's not made up.
These are not accusations but what actually happened in doctrine and practice.
Call The WayInternational and ask them yourself.
Why are you bothering with these people here when it's them who are in question for you.
You don't believe what's documented here-or say you don't, saying it's heresay.
When it's not heresay, when it's the person that experienced the abuse.
Go talk to the abusers.
Why don't you do that?
I'm sure you all will get along fine.
One does not have to be charged with a crime through the law for the crime to exist.
Simply put I believe the accounts and documentation of the abuse.
I have talked with some who have been so abused.
And I have spent 20 years with twi.
It is quite apparent in their doctrines and practices.
A convenient LARGE loophole that they sanctified and said it was of God.
It is NOT.
It is an oppurtunity to abuse from the very start of being involved in twi.
Go join them, if you haven't or just stay with them if you are.
But I have found no liars from the abused when it comes to this abuse that was administered from the top down in the corrupt organization called The Way.
No it would not, But everyone deserves due process, the system is not perfect far from it, but it none the less is what we have. We have people fighting for our rights paying a dear price I wont see them trampled on just to satisfy someones agenda to make everything spoken about The Way evil. i said it before there is enough documentable problems to discuss.
Pardon me for pointing this out, but if this was not a legal issue, there would be no "due process" to consider nor would there be a "system" to call into question.
What happened was heinous in GOD's eyes.
I believe His standards trump that of any court of law.
i was thinking about you as i was writing on this thread I thought where is the hey who began this nut job of a thread ? you have been been silent i wondered if I made you angry, and then you came to the thread and spoke!
Im glad you did, you know i read your post and i say dear God is still the most high and jesus will never fall of His mighty throne, and their people are the very beloved, we cant fail now not the one true God not ever.
Pardon me for pointing this out, but if this was not a legal issue, there would be no "due process" to consider nor would there be a "system" to call into question.
What happened was heinous in GOD's eyes.
I believe His standards trump that of any court of law.
I believe that is why Jesus says to forgive and any vengence belongs to him waysider.
We do not understand God his ways are very much higher than our He is love and suffice to say endeaver as we may to care and seek His way we have all been sinful and a mess.
that is why Jesus says he will take care of the wrongs and make them right for us.
we can not be trusted with the care and concern of one another all of us have been very wrong and very right, we are still just children. but do not worry Jesus can handle the job, i have had many conversation with my Lord and i trust he is the one and only who truly can judge who or what we have done.
I believe that is why Jesus says to forgive and any vengence belongs to him waysider.
We do not understand God his ways are very much higher than our He is love and suffice to say endeaver as we may to care and seek His way we have all been sinful and a mess.
that is why Jesus says he will take care of the wrongs and make them right for us.
we can not be trusted with the care and concern of one another all of us have been very wrong and very right, we are still just children. but do not worry Jesus can handle the job, i have had many conversation with my Lord and i trust he is the one and only who truly can judge who or what we have done.
Thank you for your response, Pond.
You have raised some interesting points to consider.
No this is what happens when you accuse people of crimes that they have not been charged with and refer to them as guilty without the benefit of legal representation and a fair hearing and because it just grates on your nerves to refer to them as alleged as most anyone knows that you should but that just isn't evil sounding enough to suit your agenda so you just make s**t up. Its pretty simple just say alleged because that is what the proper terminology is..
You know, there are people who get away with crimes...who are damnably guilty, whether they are ever prosecuted in a court of law.
Dove, it isn`t alleged when I/WE am relating first hand personal experiences. You cannot handle the reality of our experiences, so you have accuse the rest of us of making up lies.
As lawsuit happy as twi is...I have NO doubt that if we here were lying or saying ANYTHING slanderous....we would be hauled into court immediately....but you know WHY they never file charges???
Our personal accounts have been backed up repeatedly.
I don`t accuse you of lying and making sh9t up just because YOUR experiences are vastly different than mine.
Pardon me for pointing this out, but if this was not a legal issue, there would be no "due process" to consider nor would there be a "system" to call into question.
What happened was heinous in GOD's eyes.
I believe His standards trump that of any court of law.
But there is a legal system , your question was hypothetical you asked if.
Follow along Cman.. I did not say the crimes if in fact there were any, were made up, as I have said a gazillion times they have not been proven either way so they are alleged, they may have happened or they may have not but until such time as a verdict is rendered the proper reference is alleged. What is made up is your assumption that a guilty verdict has been rendered by due process, It has not.
These are not accusations but what actually happened in doctrine and practice.
You assume that because that is what you wish it to be, the truth is it has not been proven either way, by your own reference let me remind you:
"Recent cases in which DNA evidence has been used to exonerate indi-viduals convicted primarily on the basis of eyewitness testimony have shown us that eyewitness evidence is not infallible. Even the most honestand objective people can make mistakes in recalling and interpreting a witnessed event; it is the nature of human memory. This issue has been atthe heart of a growing body of research in the field of eyewitness identifi-cation over the past decade."
As I pointed out the Duke Rape Case was a Prime Example of this. There are plenty of other cases as well.
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Tom Strange
My new year's wish is that johniam and whitedove learn how to use the quote feature...
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Bumpy
My New Year's Wish is that People who Need their Medication, Take their Medication!!
Then their little anger management Fits, will be a lot easier for all of us...to understand! <_<
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GeorgeStGeorge
Not quite.
To accuse FALSELY someone of rape, etc., is slander (unless it's in a written medium, in which case it's libel). Even then, to prosecute someone for slander or libel requires that the alleged slander involve malicious intent. If someone is simply mistaken, his comments cannot be construed as slander.
George
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pond
on a side note about what people an know about one another..
I was at a meeting for people networking , this shocked me, but it is true.
this kid really a young man in his twenties said he had just got out of prison , and need to know where a certain court was . i didnt recognize the circuit court and asked why.
ok and this is the part that killed.
dude just walked out of prison (for drugs felony) with a lengthy a record .
so he was asking if he needed to check that little box on the job application if you have ever been convicted for a crime.
she said no.
he didnt ? he just came out of prison???
he needed to go to this court and asked the judge to sign a release of some sort saying he did not have to tell of his conviction on the application .
no big deal that is what he had to do when he went to prison before !ok then!
wow . i was amazed that is even possible ! his was drugs i am sure the judge would reconsider if it was a violent crime like murder or rape.. but still.
so we really do not know we are dealing with in society even with checks and balance.
I do suppose it is right or eles we would be feeding the dude for free his entire life either on welfare or in the prison, this would give him a chance. In new york with three strikes your out policy a convicted felon 3 times is not alowed to stay in this state, he must be removed to another state, he can not collect any money or aids etc.. even if he has done the time.
but still! wow i was surprised.
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What The Hey
I see a lot of interesting responses and dialog happening here between people. It only goes to prove that many think they are on this great mission for Jesus Christ (whether it is to expose TWI, or to prove they're doctrinally wrong, or whatever else) but do any of you really understand and know why Christianity today is so pathetic? It's mainly because Christians don't truly love one another.
Oh yeah, we're all on this great mission today to "save the world" from TWI or from something else we feel that is real horrible and bad. There are a lot of great missionary societies out there, but the reason they don't really have a message is because they don't truly love one another. We don't have a message of anything that is more powerful for the looking, seeking, world or any other religion that's out there simply because we are not truly loving one another. What do we really have to give to one another?
Jesus Christ said, "A new command I give you, that you love one another as I have loved you." Why did he say that? Why did Jesus Christ say that it is so important to love one another? Well, he gave the answer right there in God's Word - By this all men will know that you are my disciples - if you love one another. O.K. Did Jesus Christ say that people would know that we are something different because of our particular commitment to a cause or because of our sacrifices? No. He said what wil make us stand out to the world is the kind of relationships that you have with one another while you are reaching the world. That is what will make the world marvel.
I realize there is a whole teaching or doctrine out there that is very popular today called, "POWER EVANGELISM". Anyone familiar with the phrase? The idea in "Power Evangelism" is that you have to be a miracle worker to be an effective evangelist in foreign countries. That is what really gets peoples attention with the gospel if you can heal someone of a physical ailment while you're preaching the gospel to them. Well, it only works for a short period of time.
But the reason I am writing is to remind you and to tell you that the miracle that Jesus Christ gave to us to prove to this world that we truly have God, is our love for one another. I would rather demonstrate to this busted, broken down, beaten weary world a supernatural acceptance, forgiveness, and respect for my Christian brother that is right next to me than I would want to perform a physical miracle on someone. Why? Because the world knows even witch doctors can perform miracles! The devil himself can do miracles, but only Christians can really love people. That's our ace in the hole. That's the only thing we have that the rest of this world doesn't have - is that we can really love people. So what happens when we don't?
When we don't - then we really don't have much of a mission. That is why Jesus Christ said, "No greater love than this - that I would lay down my life for --- who? A stranger? Is that what he said? Or for an enemy? Is that what he said? No. He said, "There is no greater love than this, that you would lay your life down for your friends.
It's like I have been trying to tell you earlier and all along - and the real reason I started this thread topic. It's because: YOU KNOW THEM! Jesus Christ understood that. He knew that as we got close to one another that there is going to come a point in our relationships with each other that we are going to STOP liking one another, because man --- There's just something that this person did that really offended me!
That's right. I don't like "this thing" about "that person." This person makes me uncomfortable - or whatever other excuse you would make to cool your relationship with that person or whatever other excuse you would make to get out of that situation. I DON'T WANT TO BE WITH THAT PERSON --- Well, that's the point where you stop liking them and you got to start loving them. That is where love begins - where liking ends.
Many people find this out when they get married. You marry that girl because you really like her, but the only thing that will keep you married is that you're going to love her even when you don't like her. That's right. You're not always going to like her (or like him). That's why you have to learn how to love her (or to love him). That's the model that Jesus Christ gave to us.
Yes that is the model Jesus gave to us, but when people get into ministry they often end up believing the mission is much more important than the relationship. NO! We don't have a mission if we don't have the relationships. Yes, I understand that there are legitimate and biblical reasons why one should leave a marriage or even leave their church. There are legitamate and biblical reasons for both. But one should be very, very careful in making those decisions. DON'T EVER let it be because of a lack of love on your part. I know there are matters of conscious. If someone asks you to do something that violates your conscious and if you can't work it out with them - then yes, that may be a very good and valid reason to leave that relationship or leave that church. Men of God aren't perfect, but if they have a lifestyle that you don't respect, then God certainly doesn't expect you to follow them. So there are legitimate reasons why one would leave a marriage or leave a church.
But then again, what are the things that would tempt you to leave and sacrifice the relationships you have with them? There may come a point where you think if I left these people it wouldn't be a big deal, but there may eventually come a day when you realize what's really important - the relationship. IT'S NOT WHAT 'I' WANTED TO DO, it was the relationship. That's the will of God right there - in the relationship. Some people may say, "Well "so-and-so" offended me, and it's just easier for me to go find another church or to find another relationship somewhere else". Is that a reason God will agree with?
OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE OFFENDED!!! We're humans and we're not perfect. As you get close and you become best friends with someone then you're going to become offended. You're not going to become best friends with anyone who has never offended you. If your best friend has never offended you, then I would say that you're not best friends yet. It's not until they "tick-you-off" and you've got to accept them and love them anyway - that well, now you're talking. You don't know what best friends are until that happens. The question I want to ask is, "Do you have that in your life?" Well, you got to have people in your life that can offend you like that. Many times its a good thing to be offended because that means you're getting close. That means we're getting beyond just liking each other and we're starting to learn to love one another.
I know its so much more comfortable to be where everybody just likes one another. But is that what "authentic Christianity" is about? Where everybody just likes one another? NO! No it's not, and truthfully speaking, I don't like everybody here nor do I like everybody that is around me either. (I'm not going to name names.) But authentic Christianity shows up only when you're NOT getting along - when you're NOT liking one another and you're learning to love one another.
Why do people join a church anyway? People join a church because they like the church, but people will stay with a church because they love it. If you just join a church because you like it, then what are you going to do when they do something you don't like? When you don't like them anymore? You're going to leave. I've seen that happen over and over too.
I personally know a pastor in a small community, and as pastors they get together about once a month and they talk about different people. They know who the "church hoppers" are. They say, "Hey, so-and-so left my church - they'll probably be showing up in your church next." Sure enough, they do. They know who they are. They're never happy because they're just looking for a church that they're going to like instead of love. There's a big difference there. The devil will always give you a reason to leave a church you like. Maybe someone reproves you for something. You start getting close to people and they start getting close to you, and then they point out something in your life and it kind of hurts. It hurts for a couple reasons. It hurts because:
1. Gee, they exposed me ... and
2. You know it's right. You know that it's true and it hurts. So - are you going to leave?
If you have a friend like that, then they are good as gold. A person who loves you enough to tell you when you're wrong is a gold mine. Don't ever leave that. It's such a valuable thing, but you're going to be tempted to think, "They did that because they don't like me, or they did that because they are judging me." No. Most of the time people aren't talking about that stuff unless they really love you. It takes a lot of "gumption" to confront people about sin or a need in their life. I sure don't like doing it. Most pastors don't like doing it because they want people to like them all the time. But I know from God's Word there are times I will have to confront people who may have offended me, so I must do it if I am going to stand approved before God. Sometimes people don't know how much I love them, so they leave, and they make a big mistake because they had someone in their life that loved them enough to tell them when they were wrong.
In the Old Testament David needed a man like that. He didn't have anyone who would stand up to him and tell him when he was wrong. Proverbs 27:6 says, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." What do you want? Do you just want to be "kissed" by everybody? They sure did a lot of that in TWI. But I really don't want that in my life, that "love-bombing" kind of stuff.
Do you have a friend in your life you can trust to wound you? Then that's valuable stuff. That's growing up. If you don't want someone in your life telling you that you're wrong, then you need to grow up because you need that for the long haul. Maybe you left a church or a relationship because you wanted to fully develop your potential, or because the people you fellowshipped with didn't appreciate you enough or what you have to offer. I've been tempted that way before. It's kind of twisted thinking because God gave us our talents and abilities to operate within a body. They don't work if your not linked into a body. Many people left the body just for the purpose to "serve somewhere else" simply because they felt they weren't appreciated, but in reality they left the body hanging and deserted. That's essentially what the apostle Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 13 - "Oh yeah, you have talent and you have great abilities. But they really don't amount to anything and they are worthless simply because you don't have love.
There are so many people in Christianity today going from church to church just to be able to use their talents. Maybe you don't realize it because you don't have much exposure to "Amercanized Christianity." I mean, do also realize how many pastors who also go from church to church with the idea of "personal advancement?" Even they are "church-hopping so they can reach their fullest potential! And they're using the church. They're acting as if the people in this church exist for me - for them to advance my gifts. It's so twisted and upside down. I got to go where my gifts and talents and abilities can be best utilized. I got to be faithful to what Jesus has given me by abandoning the saints. It's really a sick thing, and not very biblical. I don't know what they're thinking when they go from church to church. I really don't know. Do you think they really love those people? I don't think so. And do they really have a best friend in the church themselves? No way. And they don't have men around them and because of that they are lonely and that is often the reason why they fail. It's them and the elder board, and they don't get along with the elder board, so they got to go to the next church. These are pastors. So what do you think is happening in the body of believers?
They are missing it. They are missing it big time.
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FaintWhispers
Sounds as if he simply filed to have his records expunged...As long as it's not a federal crime/conviction, I think it can be done in every state, with each state having their own eligibility requirements.
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Nottawayfer
A lot of employers now do background checks. Wouldn't a drug conviction come up in a background check?
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WhiteDove
Ok ,so you only want to see things that support your view and ignore the rest to bad that the facts get in the way. hey you are the one that pointed out the websites not me and nnow your unhappy because they don't agree and support your anti way views.. Oh well...................
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Bumpy
I thought you might enjoy this little website article??
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...;show_article=1
Just another example.
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WhiteDove
No this is what happens when you accuse people of crimes that they have not been charged with and refer to them as guilty without the benefit of legal representation and a fair hearing and because it just grates on your nerves to refer to them as alleged as most anyone knows that you should but that just isn't evil sounding enough to suit your agenda so you just make s**t up. Its pretty simple just say alleged because that is what the proper terminology is..
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waysider
Suppose for a moment there were no laws governing rape and sexual misconduct, would that make these occurrences any less heinous?
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pond
Actualy alot places do not do "background checks as they are expensive. yes the "better jobs would but a CNA in a nursing home is asumed to have had a "background check" Well the check is within the time of their certification, and most recertify with employers!
if you get that ? in other words if your working as a nurse or a CNA your employer is responsible to recertify it is just a matter of a paper or a web site in which the employer says the employee is working as such and has complied with all in house training, boom recertification!
no background check is done. yes you may have been convincted of a felonyin the past two or three years your certification has run but if not reported to the employer and it isnt required for the courts to report who knew?
even then it would be discrimination and a fight if they were already employed
if you apply to a new job the "background check they look at is a web site which states whether your license or certifcation is in good standing meaning you have not been found guilty of abuse ON THE JOB .
if you have six rape charges and a drug charge outside of your capacity as a CNA it is not on that check!! it is only the background of you as a CNA and whether the state has ever filed charges on you as a CNA. or nurse etc.
huh????? true . scary .
some do a background check but in NY a check takes at least four months for the state to process and with the turn over of personal on nursing homes it is more of a fine or trouble from the state to have short staff than to have staff that is guilty of past criminal activities. so they work until the check comes back... and then they can be dismissed if it is too bad BUT they can just go to the next home as that employer is not allowed to release that private information about the individual to another employer.
and it begins all over again.
but anyways back to the young man and would his convinction show up on a background check Well i do not know if the judge orders that it is just for the application or if it is all together not going to show up if they do a criminal background check! i asked my daughter who hires and fires and she said that is why her company doesnt even bother with the criminal checks any more!
expunged means the record is swpt clean, then why the records of convictions? i was very ssurprised i tell ya.
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WhiteDove
No it would not, But everyone deserves due process, the system is not perfect far from it, but it none the less is what we have. We have people fighting for our rights paying a dear price I wont see them trampled on just to satisfy someones agenda to make everything spoken about The Way evil. i said it before there is enough documentable problems to discuss.
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cman
No, sorry, no dice. It's not made up.
These are not accusations but what actually happened in doctrine and practice.
Call The WayInternational and ask them yourself.
Why are you bothering with these people here when it's them who are in question for you.
You don't believe what's documented here-or say you don't, saying it's heresay.
When it's not heresay, when it's the person that experienced the abuse.
Go talk to the abusers.
Why don't you do that?
I'm sure you all will get along fine.
One does not have to be charged with a crime through the law for the crime to exist.
Simply put I believe the accounts and documentation of the abuse.
I have talked with some who have been so abused.
And I have spent 20 years with twi.
It is quite apparent in their doctrines and practices.
A convenient LARGE loophole that they sanctified and said it was of God.
It is NOT.
It is an oppurtunity to abuse from the very start of being involved in twi.
Go join them, if you haven't or just stay with them if you are.
But I have found no liars from the abused when it comes to this abuse that was administered from the top down in the corrupt organization called The Way.
Your "verdict" or opinion is different.
So what, welcome to life, if you can handle it.
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waysider
Pardon me for pointing this out, but if this was not a legal issue, there would be no "due process" to consider nor would there be a "system" to call into question.
What happened was heinous in GOD's eyes.
I believe His standards trump that of any court of law.
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pond
to what the hey
i was thinking about you as i was writing on this thread I thought where is the hey who began this nut job of a thread ? you have been been silent i wondered if I made you angry, and then you came to the thread and spoke!
Im glad you did, you know i read your post and i say dear God is still the most high and jesus will never fall of His mighty throne, and their people are the very beloved, we cant fail now not the one true God not ever.
He loves us that much.
keep on keeping on brother.
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pond
I believe that is why Jesus says to forgive and any vengence belongs to him waysider.
We do not understand God his ways are very much higher than our He is love and suffice to say endeaver as we may to care and seek His way we have all been sinful and a mess.
that is why Jesus says he will take care of the wrongs and make them right for us.
we can not be trusted with the care and concern of one another all of us have been very wrong and very right, we are still just children. but do not worry Jesus can handle the job, i have had many conversation with my Lord and i trust he is the one and only who truly can judge who or what we have done.
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waysider
Thank you for your response, Pond.
You have raised some interesting points to consider.
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Danny
WTH
What do you do if the Church you are with teaches doctrins of Devils?
What would the bible say?
Love and every thing will be alright.
Maybe save your brother or sister from the hurt would be good.
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rascal
You know, there are people who get away with crimes...who are damnably guilty, whether they are ever prosecuted in a court of law.
Dove, it isn`t alleged when I/WE am relating first hand personal experiences. You cannot handle the reality of our experiences, so you have accuse the rest of us of making up lies.
As lawsuit happy as twi is...I have NO doubt that if we here were lying or saying ANYTHING slanderous....we would be hauled into court immediately....but you know WHY they never file charges???
Our personal accounts have been backed up repeatedly.
I don`t accuse you of lying and making sh9t up just because YOUR experiences are vastly different than mine.
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WhiteDove
But there is a legal system , your question was hypothetical you asked if.
God will make his judgment in His day
In our day we have man's judgment a legal system
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cman
that day may be sooner then you expect
in fact i know you will not expect it
and it will open your eyes to love
the man's judgement and His day
that's twi bs-pitch it
cuz twi has no idea what judgement is
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WhiteDove
Quote Cman
No, sorry, no dice. It's not made up.
Follow along Cman.. I did not say the crimes if in fact there were any, were made up, as I have said a gazillion times they have not been proven either way so they are alleged, they may have happened or they may have not but until such time as a verdict is rendered the proper reference is alleged. What is made up is your assumption that a guilty verdict has been rendered by due process, It has not.
These are not accusations but what actually happened in doctrine and practice.
You assume that because that is what you wish it to be, the truth is it has not been proven either way, by your own reference let me remind you:
"Recent cases in which DNA evidence has been used to exonerate indi-viduals convicted primarily on the basis of eyewitness testimony have shown us that eyewitness evidence is not infallible. Even the most honestand objective people can make mistakes in recalling and interpreting a witnessed event; it is the nature of human memory. This issue has been atthe heart of a growing body of research in the field of eyewitness identifi-cation over the past decade."
As I pointed out the Duke Rape Case was a Prime Example of this. There are plenty of other cases as well.
Here are a few for you to read
DNA
Just because someone says so does not make a story true. Especially on the internet by a faceless nameless person named goofy shoes or the phantom.
Call The WayInternational and ask them yourself.
Why are you bothering with these people here when it's them who are in question for you.
You don't believe what's documented here-or say you don't, saying it's heresay.
When it's not heresay, when it's the person that experienced the abuse.
Exactly, because eyewitness accounts is not infallible as we have seen from real evidence...........
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cman
googles reference and those were not the only things talked about
And it's not what I wish it to be.
Itr is what it is.
It boils down to what you believe.
To which you have made it impossible for anyone, even God to show you.
But your will will not be stronger then god's.
The end and a new beginning without all the garbage.
Documentation-read Revelations
You will have to destroy what twi put in your head to read it and get anything from it.
Which would be true about most scripture as well as Holy men of God who speak in these days.
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