The Voice of Offence

pond · January 4, 2008

The voice of offense.

While involved with twi I learned alot of things but mostly what was ingrained in my mind , was the world is not a good place that "they" are out to get ya!

"they " being just about anyone who was not involved in twi and/or doing what they said at time how they said it when they said etc...

so the world is an evil place. was the theme to extreme at twi.

anything bad that happened to ya at first was the devil then it became names, of actual and that is when head began to roll and the fight or flight began.

I was in more than a few fellowships groups of people that had this background and they are all the same .. regular people with regular life going on.

life is difficult! it is! life is mesy and complex and ugly and beautiful and many things for all.

by twi standards we are offended just o be alive and breathing! honestly .

if something happenes to a person with this background it is imediately the other guys problem because we have sonship rights and are constantly attacked and it is the devil working through you.

we learned to eat one another alive, very very well.

at the expense of real education of what life is, how very joyful and happy our Lord is in our life.

not to metion many came away with real life scars of poverty and ignorance of how to maintain a quality of life without twi's strong holds on how it is suppose to be done. the next goal was to go wow or to somhow get into the corps or to have a succesful fellowship which pleased everyone. very difficult to live a full life with such constraints.

many have no clue on what life is without putting what a leader or the bible or even God would say in the next thought.

so people became master of the B*tch master of the blame and masters at being a VICTIM of this world at large.

with reason. we learned to be victims we learned to be offended instead of finding the peace of Jesus or even life at its most wonderous oppurtunity. many either forgot how or just never learned our brain was so very wrapped up in being hurt by satan or one another.

consider life beyond, you can leave twi but the hard work comes in when you must leave the mind set of how that group operates!!!

not so easily done because it takes risk , you have to think for yourself, you have to make choices , and worst of all for ex cult head, you have to take responsibility for those choices and not say or think it is all about what " they" did to me as an excuse for something when it doesnt work out exactly as you have it promised in your head.

They have no power over you, at one time they could be defined as those who have not yet taken the pfal class, they were wrong evil bad and to be dismissed, then for some "they became the twi leaders or co-workers or friends and family who offended you.

this us and them mentality is wrong, it was a cult in the sense it taught us all that our community was only our own self!

it isnt, We have a life to live and the life God grants us each and every one ,whether you think God is real or not ,is always bigger than any of them.

us and them mentality is not a real thing. do you still carry it? when something is frustrating to you is your first thoght to try to figure out what THEY did wrong to you to make this happen?

or do you consider we are a community at large which is as large as the moon and the stars and we can and should be responsible for our own choices no matter how it turns out. That is the freedom of knowing Christ as a risen Saviour friiends, and what makes life worth living and full of love and seeking and answers and truth.

mom always told you what matters is on the inside, right? so please stop looking for out side sources that offend you and hurt you and frustrating and look within to seek the answers , and then when you find them you will know joy and pride and accomplishment and be all that life offers you.

or keep blaming the other guy , and revictimizing yourself over and over. everyone has misfortune in life those who overcome it seem to be those who can continue to love and seek and know we all need one another to survive one another.

They are you, and you are them, stop the hate, and love can then enter in. The world is a nice place and love is out there, if you can make room for it.

WordWolf · January 4, 2008

Exactly what I said ,however it does in my OPINION show some credibility to the charge, they have the money to defend the case so that is not a concern as it would be for some, if they thought that they could prove their case they would have gone to trial, obviously they did not.

Now you can read their minds, and know the SOLE reason they could elect not to go to trial is that they thought they could not win

their case? Do you know what it's like to be dragged through a lengthy court-case, with the defense's attorneys calling the victim

a whore and a liar? It's even worse than here when some posters keep suggesting that of the victims.

Just because you are coerced does not mean you have to comply That is a personal choice that each must be accountable for. Apparently the Allens figured out how not to comply.

"Just because you are coerced does not mean you have to comply."

That's a remarkable statement that is both true and false.

Technically, one is able to choose- however, in any practical sense, the choice is limited.

During the days of slavery in the American South, a slave was coerced to work as a slave.

That did not mean he has to comply. He can choose to try to escape, or elect to refuse to work.

This will mean a whipping, and he may be scarred for life, and repeats could end with a crippling

injury or a death, but he does not HAVE to comply.

Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion

You should educate yourself whitedove.

You are not well informed, even when the info is readily available.

Reallly ,lets look at the latest poll data
I was sexually abused by VPW or LCM [ 2 ]

I was sexually abused by a different leader in TWI [ 5 ]

I see a total of 7 out of a base of roughly 2000 posters give or take for those who no longer post and duplicate names. This is from a site mind you that is anti Way. Now factor in the roughly 100,000 people who were involved in the Way who don't share this feeling. You can figure the % on that yourself less than a half of a half of a percent. I think you need to reexamine the data even you below contradict yourself, you say numerous, below it is a few. Which is it? Perhaps it is you that is not being honest with the data?

Being honest with the data would include NOT EXTRAPOLATING FROM NONREPRESENTATIVE DATA.

It's easy to pull a nonrepresentative sample, and extrapolate to the general population.

If one polled the chatroom at the right moment, one could extrapolate that 80% of the membership of twi

was raped or molested by vpw, lcm or someone vpw taught to rape and molest.

It's dishonest, but one could pretend it's not.

Equally, it's dishonest to take the results of a poll where A FEW GSCers in the HISTORY of GSC have responded,

and claim it represents THE ENTIRETY of GSCers in the HISTORY of GSC.

In that timeframe, I'd say about 100 posters have been posting.

So, 7 people out of 100, or 7%, would be represented here, and that's only counting the ones here NOW.

And claiming 100,000 were ever "involved" in the way is also non-representative. It was claimed by twi based on

the number of people who ever SIGNED UP for pfal. Not everyone who signed up EVER SHOWED UP.

Not everyone who showed up at Session 1 completed Session 12.

Not everyone who completed Session 12 was around for more than that (some took it and made tracks.)

Not everyone who stayed after Session 12 stayed more than a few months.

I'd say the history of twi included some 50,000 people EVER who were around for more than 3 months,

and as many as 38,000 were around at the same time, as of its height in 1979-1982.

Just because you "see" something with the data doesn't mean it's so.

I'd suggest "re-examining" the data, but I expect you'd get the same results, since you'd approach it the

same way each time.

WordWolf · January 4, 2008

It's not my job to prove your accusations that burdon is upon you.

If this was a court of law, that "burdon" WOULD be on all the posters.

However, it is NOT a court of law,

and, WD's impressions notwithstanding,

people can-and are EXPECTED TO, PAW SAID SO-

COME FORTH AND GIVE PERSONAL TESTIMONY, AS EYEWITNESS OR VICTIM,

AND SAY "THIS HAPPENED TO ME, TWI DID THIS, VPW DID THIS, LCM DID THIS.

They are NOT required to produce DNA samples nor videotaped evidence of same.

Attempts to say otherwise are attempts to hide from what happened-

or to SILENCE those who suffered.

"...I have tried to keep memory alive, I have tried to fight those who would forget. Because if we forget, we are guilty, we are accomplices...

I swore never to be silent whenever, wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation...

Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."

-Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech, December 10, 1986.

Edited January 4, 2008 by WordWolf

WhiteDove · January 4, 2008

some piece of work there whitedove

you really are screwed up

Thanks it was some piece of work, I guess since you had no response again, you are in agreement with the facts that I presented, from articles and polls. I suppose when the data the truth proves your theories otherwise lacking in information one has no choice but to result to name calling in order to try and save face.

yeah there's a few that spoke up

that tells me there is more

Really how does that work? How many more? ,How do you tell? B S it does not tell you squat except that the ones who spoke up ,spoke up........ There is no indication that there is more or that there is not more. You really can't just make stuff up here.

So if u had any common sense i'd explain it

stupidity is your game though

and I've spent enough here

No offence, but you have failed to explain your own data and point here against the evidence I'll pass on the explanation

and that poll is no indicator

if i had my say it would not be there

Well we do agree on this , there are obvious flaws in an anonymous poll ,but it is none the less a poll which by the way is more proof than you offered to back up your claim which was "Cough" by the way....... none............

pond · January 4, 2008

i looked at the list last night and i think it said something like over 700 guest were on the web page!

i am always amazed at the numbers.

the poll is interesting but (not to sound like a broken record) not exactly a measure without many various problems the least of which is lack of vertification which is ironic:.

whitedove i do not understand how you can scream about proof and the lack of being able to vertify facts.. and then use that poll as evidence ..

pond · January 4, 2008

ok so you happen to be writing at the same time white dove i read your answer , ok then.

Ham · January 4, 2008

I prefer fair and balanced news..........

obviously not.. even when you could have the phone number to interview the "other side" of the story..

naw.

Nobody seems to be requesting your services to serve as "prosecutor" in this "case" here..

why go through the trouble of asking for pure, unadulterated evidence.. police reports.. court records of convictions..

no one appears to be asking for your services to act as some kind of "arbitrator".. and obviously, twi doesn't think they need to arbitrate or fix any wrongs..

don't take this as an attack, but an observation.

Do you have something personally involved in this business, to discount the claims and evidence offered by scores of people?

I don't really expect an answer.. maybe just ask it of yourself..

cman · January 4, 2008

I guess since you had no response again, you are in agreement

No not in any way form or fashion do I agree with you.

You want to twist words to your own satisfaction.

That still will not change the facts and the truth.

The data is here, I'm not going to do the work for you.

And you are trying to get me off balance, sorry, no deal.

Others better then you have tried to no avail.

WhiteDove · January 4, 2008

Now you can read their minds, and know the SOLE reason they could elect not to go to trial is that they thought they could not win

their case? Do you know what it's like to be dragged through a lengthy court-case, with the defense's attorneys calling the victim

a whore and a liar? It's even worse than here when some posters keep suggesting that of the victims.

First I never said it was the sole reason ,only a possible one Second my fault I was not clear I was refering to the Way when I said they thought they could not win. But since you brought it up thats the price one pays for going to trial if you don't think you are prepared to hear such things then you should not persue a goal of gettin some cash...............

"Just because you are coerced does not mean you have to comply."

That's a remarkable statement that is both true and false.

Technically, one is able to choose- however, in any practical sense, the choice is limited.

During the days of slavery in the American South, a slave was coerced to work as a slave.

That did not mean he has to comply. He can choose to try to escape, or elect to refuse to work.

This will mean a whipping, and he may be scarred for life, and repeats could end with a crippling

injury or a death, but he does not HAVE to comply.

Well we were not discussing a slave in the south were we we were discussing the Way Int. It seems that the Allens found a way not to be coerced evident by the word attempted in the quote. I can attest to the fact as well so apperantly it is possible which leaves some just did not accomplish it. No big deal unless you try to blame someone else for your choice.