I think everyone on greasepot feels the cost was to high at some point.
well maybe not bumpy
We all compromised , i do not blame anyone not God not myself not twi not vpw, not anymore if anyone i guess the shame was me hating me, when I realized God loves each of us so much that a small group in ohio will not have the power to deny the LORD in my life.
and let me tell you He rose up to meet me with bells and whistles and has not left since, so for me it was worth it all Jesus made it worth it.
no i do not think God wanted what happened to happen but i know this beyond any doubt, Jesus can take you out of any place that hurts and bring us into a lfie that if wonderful and happy anf full of lessons learned.
Bumpy it is pawtuckets web site he can do as he wishes, he does not have to explain anything to you (although he probably will take the time and efort to do so from reading his posts for years now)
dont you get it?
your not alone on this site you have offended some people or soemthing and they do not like what you put in there. he gets it from both sides bumpy!
do not make it bigger than it is.
what was your darn motivfe anyways tiger friend for the whole vixen thing? crap i got deleted too and i do not even know any vixxen so chill out and play nice. it happens to alot of people.
please? only because i do not want you to leave you make me smile alot
Bumpy, why are your letters so much larger than everyone elses? Are you shouting at me without using your CAPS lock key? Just wonderin'...
I noticed, I think it was bliss with green type set, and thought during the holidays to play around with different type settings. Just having a little fun Tom, no sarcasm, no volume, no hidden agenda...except that maybe the keyboard needs a little FIXXXEN!! Seen any of that wd 40 around??
Bonsoir and good luck tracking down that Secret Agent from cyberspace Madam xxx !!!
WD, you claim the that facts presented by personal testimony are unprovable and therefore no good. why do you assume they're unprovable and therefore not factual?
I did not say they were unprovable only that to date it has not been done.
and your statements about LCM's deposition being factual, what a hoot! people lie all the time in court. it took me over a year to gather evidence that my ex lied in court twice, but I finally got him.
Again you seem to insert words where there are none , I never said it was factual what I said was
Really? I believe that we heard another side of the story at LCM deposition. Indeed, not every story but enough to see the" for rent sign in his office
with enough money, I think many of the facts presented by vpw and lcm's victims could be adequately proven, if by nothing else than the circumstantial evidence of many far flung victims recounting their personal experiences to a degree that leaves no doubt that a crime was committed against them by the same people.
And at that point they would no longer be alleged they would be fact ,as I said all along and at that point would qualify them to be spoken of as criminal because the record would confirm such.
I just don`t understand why one feels compelled to diminish another`s experiences, impressions, and personal accounts :(
This sight is about telling the *other side of the story*..the one that we were never allowed to tell when we were involved.
To portray a poster as mentally unstable, or an exaggerator, or a liar...a psychotic whiner because one is uncomfortable with the accounts shared, is bewildering and hurtfull.
Who made it your business Dove...to attempt non stop discrediting of testimoney....or your business Pond, to attribute mental defect and unhealthiness for holding ones point of view concerning their own personal experiences.
Can you guys not just talk about your side of twi...your experiences...your impressions...Please ??? Why this irrational need to discredit anyone who doesn`t agree with you as mentally unstable, or a liar??
I am so tired of having my veracity, my integrity and character called into question when I discuss what happened to me in twi.
It is very unkind.
You can post about anything you like Rascal I have never said that I wanted to silence you. I made it my business to challenge unproven slander, and I'm telling the other side of the story, the details you left out. I prefer fair and balanced news..........
According to you there can be no proof of anything.
It's a circular thinking pattern, much like twi/pfal doctrine.
A greased pig that don't want to get caught.
Or just plain hardened heart.
Not what I said at all there could be lots of proof, it just seems to be lacking for some reason
Now take for instance the Duke Rape case here we had a hurting victim should we just have believed her story because it was first hand ? Because she was hurting? Nope they sought some proof at least eventually. The proof determined that the charge was lacking credibility. That happened because there was a investigation, not because someone just accepted what they heard. If you choose to live life accepting everything you hear as truth your business, I don't ........
I made it my business to challenge unproven slander, and I'm telling the other side of the story, the details you left out. I prefer fair and balanced news..........
would you like the name and phone number of the now "retired" limb guy who counselled "maidens" to "just get laid".. "get over it"..
?
I'm sure he'd give details.. even answer a few questions.. give something the "other side" could tell.. with the right kind of prompting, though he probably wishes that this whole Way Ministry scenario would just go away..
He shows up on a Zaba search. No, I will not reveal the guy's name, address or phone number on a public forum here, unless he was an old "trustee"..
There are a FEW rules to abide by..
I'd even give MY name. You could ask him:
what about the little "meeting" in (city, state).. when "ham" was present, and he "counselled" his *men* to ABUSE their wives.. on cue..
during the () time of year.. 19XX..
along with names of those present.. there was the #@%!@'s, and the ^*&$@'s there..
I'm sure they don't forget. Of course, the "men" are probably single now..
yep looks like they are big on evidence as well but then I knew that already........
"Recent cases in which DNA evidence has been used to exonerate indi-viduals convicted primarily on the basis of eyewitness testimony have shown us that eyewitness evidence is not infallible. Even the most honestand objective people can make mistakes in recalling and interpreting a witnessed event; it is the nature of human memory. This issue has been atthe heart of a growing body of research in the field of eyewitness identifi-cation over the past decade."
When the eye witness is the victim, that's when you love to attack their credibility.
Such is your 'love' of your own hate.
The facts are that women were raped in twi by twi leaders.
All cases filed were settled out of court.
That does not prove innocent or guilty.
Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion into many deeds that those who were coerced would not have done without the type and kind of pressure applied, which is also documented, in all circumstances where it was not the persons will to do what they were being told to do.
You should educate yourself whitedove.
You are not well informed, even when the info is readily available.
You are deceived by deceiving.
Not honest and seeking something else besides the truth.
That much is apparent and certain.
What's the matter TWI?
You can't stop the courage of your victims.
The words of the few that speak up scare you huh....
Do an internet search on your twi, and learn.
And talk to those willing to right here.
No, you are too afraid, cause you know they are right.
When the eye witness is the victim, that's when you love to attack their credibility.
Such is your 'love' of your own hate.
The facts are that women were raped in twi by twi leaders.
Ouote
Mrs. Allen and Mr. Allen claim they suffered humiliation, embarrassment and stress at the hands of The Way officials, and that officials attempted to “coerce” Mrs. Allen into engaging in sexual activity with the Rev. L. Craig Martindale, former president, between 1996 and 1999. The Allens resigned from The Way in 1999.
I guess you missed the part where I said I had no disagreement with the court actions filed against LCM The reason being is because they offered proof and a chance for each side to present their case.
All cases filed were settled out of court.
That does not prove innocent or guilty.
Exactly what I said ,however it does in my OPINION show some credibility to the charge, they have the money to defend the case so that is not a concern as it would be for some, if they thought that they could prove their case they would have gone to trial, obviously they did not.
Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion into many deeds that those who were coerced would not have done without the type and kind of pressure applied, which is also documented, in all circumstances where it was not the persons will to do what they were being told to do.
Just because you are coerced does not mean you have to comply That is a personal choice that each must be accountable for. Apparently the Allens figured out how not to comply.
Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion
You should educate yourself whitedove.
You are not well informed, even when the info is readily available.
Reallly ,lets look at the latest poll data
I was sexually abused by VPW or LCM [ 2 ]
I was sexually abused by a different leader in TWI [ 5 ]
I see a total of 7 out of a base of roughly 2000 posters give or take for those who no longer post and duplicate names. This is from a site mind you that is anti Way. Now factor in the roughly 100,000 people who were involved in the Way who don't share this feeling. You can figure the % on that yourself less than a half of a half of a percent. I think you need to reexamine the data even you below contradict yourself, you say numerous, below it is a few. Which is it? Perhaps it is you that is not being honest with the data?
You are deceived by deceiving.
Not honest and seeking something else besides the truth.
That much is apparent and certain.
What's the matter TWI?
You can't stop the courage of your victims.
The words of the few that speak up scare you huh....
Do an internet search on your twi, and learn.
And talk to those willing to right here.
No, you are too afraid, cause you know they are right.
Cowards.
PS So since you seem quiet on the subject all of a sudden I guess that we can conclude from your site that you offered that they seem to support the idea that evidence is needed not only eyewitness accounts to arrive at the truth. gee what a revelation........Thanks for making my case...........
It's not my job to prove your accusations that burdon is upon you.
I have so proved my allegations. If you wish to verify my proof and observations, you certainly may.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought you were looking for "fair and balanced reporting".. wanted to hear the details from the other side.. here's the golden opportunity.
there are a couple reasons I won't name names in the open here..
1. forum rules forbid it. Unless said person is a bod or bot, past/current member..
Oh.. Paw does let us name names if they were real high profile "leaders(?)".. like Townsend, Geer.. how you could call gear "high profile" is beyond me though.. maybe he made a high profile stink at der vey, but he was just another motorcoach driver carrying a handgun..
the limb guy was a less rate lackey than geero, at least at the time..
I wonder if he found another "home" in the geer "organization"..
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pond
I think everyone on greasepot feels the cost was to high at some point.
well maybe not bumpy
We all compromised , i do not blame anyone not God not myself not twi not vpw, not anymore if anyone i guess the shame was me hating me, when I realized God loves each of us so much that a small group in ohio will not have the power to deny the LORD in my life.
and let me tell you He rose up to meet me with bells and whistles and has not left since, so for me it was worth it all Jesus made it worth it.
no i do not think God wanted what happened to happen but i know this beyond any doubt, Jesus can take you out of any place that hurts and bring us into a lfie that if wonderful and happy anf full of lessons learned.
Bumpy it is pawtuckets web site he can do as he wishes, he does not have to explain anything to you (although he probably will take the time and efort to do so from reading his posts for years now)
dont you get it?
your not alone on this site you have offended some people or soemthing and they do not like what you put in there. he gets it from both sides bumpy!
do not make it bigger than it is.
what was your darn motivfe anyways tiger friend for the whole vixen thing? crap i got deleted too and i do not even know any vixxen so chill out and play nice. it happens to alot of people.
please? only because i do not want you to leave you make me smile alot
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Tom Strange
Bumpy, why are your letters so much larger than everyone elses? Are you shouting at us without using your CAPS lock key? Just wonderin'...
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pond
it really does convey anxiety doesnt it heeheee
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Bumpy
I noticed, I think it was bliss with green type set, and thought during the holidays to play around with different type settings. Just having a little fun Tom, no sarcasm, no volume, no hidden agenda...except that maybe the keyboard needs a little FIXXXEN!! Seen any of that wd 40 around??
Bonsoir and good luck tracking down that Secret Agent from cyberspace Madam xxx !!!
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cman
You know, whitedove, that in a court of law, it's people that convict a criminal.
Not the law, but the investigation of the breaking of the law is by people.
Whether it's the jury or the judge, the laws are interpreted and implemented by people.
The jury is the law.
And proof, that you think others need and not yourself.
Is from people to people.
Sorry, your supposed stand is no stand at all.
Only an honest look into these matters, by people, will reveal the 'truth'.
Of which no book can hold.
Which also includes truths about anything,
most especially ourselves and spiritual matters.
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WhiteDove
...I'd hate to be your "friend" in real life, I'd have to carry around a damn video camera...
Tom
You forgot the extra battery pack as well......
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WordWolf
Actually,
the rest of us are pretty secure. We don't do wrong things, so even if someone invented an accusation against us,
it's not a big deal. It's the people who have a track record of doing wrong that can't dismiss claims-since they're
probably not invented, they're probably true.
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WhiteDove
WD, you claim the that facts presented by personal testimony are unprovable and therefore no good. why do you assume they're unprovable and therefore not factual?
I did not say they were unprovable only that to date it has not been done.
and your statements about LCM's deposition being factual, what a hoot! people lie all the time in court. it took me over a year to gather evidence that my ex lied in court twice, but I finally got him.
Again you seem to insert words where there are none , I never said it was factual what I said was
Really? I believe that we heard another side of the story at LCM deposition. Indeed, not every story but enough to see the" for rent sign in his office
with enough money, I think many of the facts presented by vpw and lcm's victims could be adequately proven, if by nothing else than the circumstantial evidence of many far flung victims recounting their personal experiences to a degree that leaves no doubt that a crime was committed against them by the same people.
And at that point they would no longer be alleged they would be fact ,as I said all along and at that point would qualify them to be spoken of as criminal because the record would confirm such.
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cman
Nothing to contribute to the real world of truth and facts whitedove?
No response to the reality of the way things actually work?
According to you there can be no proof of anything.
It's a circular thinking pattern, much like twi/pfal doctrine.
A greased pig that don't want to get caught.
Or just plain hardened heart.
No need for emotions when it's a real event being told first hand.
In fact, the emotion factor has been denied in telling these many events that did occur.
Afterwards is when one really lets the emotions out, away from the crowd and with loved ones.
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WhiteDove
I just don`t understand why one feels compelled to diminish another`s experiences, impressions, and personal accounts :(
This sight is about telling the *other side of the story*..the one that we were never allowed to tell when we were involved.
To portray a poster as mentally unstable, or an exaggerator, or a liar...a psychotic whiner because one is uncomfortable with the accounts shared, is bewildering and hurtfull.
Who made it your business Dove...to attempt non stop discrediting of testimoney....or your business Pond, to attribute mental defect and unhealthiness for holding ones point of view concerning their own personal experiences.
Can you guys not just talk about your side of twi...your experiences...your impressions...Please ??? Why this irrational need to discredit anyone who doesn`t agree with you as mentally unstable, or a liar??
I am so tired of having my veracity, my integrity and character called into question when I discuss what happened to me in twi.
It is very unkind.
You can post about anything you like Rascal I have never said that I wanted to silence you. I made it my business to challenge unproven slander, and I'm telling the other side of the story, the details you left out. I prefer fair and balanced news..........
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WhiteDove
Not what I said at all there could be lots of proof, it just seems to be lacking for some reason
Now take for instance the Duke Rape case here we had a hurting victim should we just have believed her story because it was first hand ? Because she was hurting? Nope they sought some proof at least eventually. The proof determined that the charge was lacking credibility. That happened because there was a investigation, not because someone just accepted what they heard. If you choose to live life accepting everything you hear as truth your business, I don't ........
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Ham
would you like the name and phone number of the now "retired" limb guy who counselled "maidens" to "just get laid".. "get over it"..
?
I'm sure he'd give details.. even answer a few questions.. give something the "other side" could tell.. with the right kind of prompting, though he probably wishes that this whole Way Ministry scenario would just go away..
He shows up on a Zaba search. No, I will not reveal the guy's name, address or phone number on a public forum here, unless he was an old "trustee"..
There are a FEW rules to abide by..
I'd even give MY name. You could ask him:
what about the little "meeting" in (city, state).. when "ham" was present, and he "counselled" his *men* to ABUSE their wives.. on cue..
during the () time of year.. 19XX..
along with names of those present.. there was the #@%!@'s, and the ^*&$@'s there..
I'm sure they don't forget. Of course, the "men" are probably single now..
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Ham
see.. you could ask him PERSONALLY what kind of "details" I left out of the little "stowry"..
1. where the women could flee from this kind of nonsense, practically in the dead of winter..
you know.. "don't like it? well.. you can walk home.."
2. what to do with the kids at the time.. or one..
3. ..............
4. what it did to a young "ham" to watch this kind of stupid abusive ......
I'm sure he'd provide a few answers..
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Ham
If you live where I think you do.. the call wouldn't even be long distance..
:)
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cman
I never said that - you did.
There are convictions with first hand testimony only and that is the evidence.
I could care less how you say you think.
I don't buy it, you have demonstrated not being honest with the simplest of words and ideas.
You certainly could not handle anything that would be important to another.
You are off the case-Bye.
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cman
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WhiteDove
yep looks like they are big on evidence as well but then I knew that already........
"Recent cases in which DNA evidence has been used to exonerate indi-viduals convicted primarily on the basis of eyewitness testimony have shown us that eyewitness evidence is not infallible. Even the most honestand objective people can make mistakes in recalling and interpreting a witnessed event; it is the nature of human memory. This issue has been atthe heart of a growing body of research in the field of eyewitness identifi-cation over the past decade."
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cman
When the eye witness is the victim, that's when you love to attack their credibility.
Such is your 'love' of your own hate.
The facts are that women were raped in twi by twi leaders.
All cases filed were settled out of court.
That does not prove innocent or guilty.
Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion into many deeds that those who were coerced would not have done without the type and kind of pressure applied, which is also documented, in all circumstances where it was not the persons will to do what they were being told to do.
You should educate yourself whitedove.
You are not well informed, even when the info is readily available.
You are deceived by deceiving.
Not honest and seeking something else besides the truth.
That much is apparent and certain.
What's the matter TWI?
You can't stop the courage of your victims.
The words of the few that speak up scare you huh....
Do an internet search on your twi, and learn.
And talk to those willing to right here.
No, you are too afraid, cause you know they are right.
Cowards.
Edited by cmanLink to comment
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Ham
I can only guess why you are not taking me up on my "kind" offer.
He even has a current phone number in the white pages.. best I know he's still alive.
You want verifiable proof? Just one phone call.. I bet it would be a "stab from the past.."
Personally, I don't have the heart to do it. I'd hate to hear a grown man cry..
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WhiteDove
quote name='cman'
When the eye witness is the victim, that's when you love to attack their credibility.
Such is your 'love' of your own hate.
The facts are that women were raped in twi by twi leaders.
Ouote
Mrs. Allen and Mr. Allen claim they suffered humiliation, embarrassment and stress at the hands of The Way officials, and that officials attempted to “coerce” Mrs. Allen into engaging in sexual activity with the Rev. L. Craig Martindale, former president, between 1996 and 1999. The Allens resigned from The Way in 1999.
I guess you missed the part where I said I had no disagreement with the court actions filed against LCM The reason being is because they offered proof and a chance for each side to present their case.
All cases filed were settled out of court.
That does not prove innocent or guilty.
Exactly what I said ,however it does in my OPINION show some credibility to the charge, they have the money to defend the case so that is not a concern as it would be for some, if they thought that they could prove their case they would have gone to trial, obviously they did not.
Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion into many deeds that those who were coerced would not have done without the type and kind of pressure applied, which is also documented, in all circumstances where it was not the persons will to do what they were being told to do.
Just because you are coerced does not mean you have to comply That is a personal choice that each must be accountable for. Apparently the Allens figured out how not to comply.
Numerous first hand eyewitness testimony here at greasespot.
Not only of rape, but coercion
You should educate yourself whitedove.
You are not well informed, even when the info is readily available.
Reallly ,lets look at the latest poll data
I was sexually abused by VPW or LCM [ 2 ]
I was sexually abused by a different leader in TWI [ 5 ]
I see a total of 7 out of a base of roughly 2000 posters give or take for those who no longer post and duplicate names. This is from a site mind you that is anti Way. Now factor in the roughly 100,000 people who were involved in the Way who don't share this feeling. You can figure the % on that yourself less than a half of a half of a percent. I think you need to reexamine the data even you below contradict yourself, you say numerous, below it is a few. Which is it? Perhaps it is you that is not being honest with the data?
You are deceived by deceiving.
Not honest and seeking something else besides the truth.
That much is apparent and certain.
What's the matter TWI?
You can't stop the courage of your victims.
The words of the few that speak up scare you huh....
Do an internet search on your twi, and learn.
And talk to those willing to right here.
No, you are too afraid, cause you know they are right.
Cowards.
PS So since you seem quiet on the subject all of a sudden I guess that we can conclude from your site that you offered that they seem to support the idea that evidence is needed not only eyewitness accounts to arrive at the truth. gee what a revelation........Thanks for making my case...........
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WhiteDove
It's not my job to prove your accusations that burdon is upon you.
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Ham
I have so proved my allegations. If you wish to verify my proof and observations, you certainly may.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought you were looking for "fair and balanced reporting".. wanted to hear the details from the other side.. here's the golden opportunity.
there are a couple reasons I won't name names in the open here..
1. forum rules forbid it. Unless said person is a bod or bot, past/current member..
2. I DO have a FEW scruples left..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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Ham
Oh.. Paw does let us name names if they were real high profile "leaders(?)".. like Townsend, Geer.. how you could call gear "high profile" is beyond me though.. maybe he made a high profile stink at der vey, but he was just another motorcoach driver carrying a handgun..
the limb guy was a less rate lackey than geero, at least at the time..
I wonder if he found another "home" in the geer "organization"..
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cman
some piece of work there whitedove
you really are screwed up
yeah there's a few that spoke up
that tells me there is more
if u had any common sense i'd explain it
stupidity is your game though
and I've spent enough here
and that poll is no indicator
if i had my say it would not be there
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