I would like someone to define truth... people sling it around like it's some higher ideal than honestly relating things that happened to us in twi... saying that this board doesn't have truth, what does that mean? that everything on here is a made-up lie?
I think we have been around this track before and defined it many times but hey whats one more time! In a public media format such as the internet, a newspaper Truth is
1. the true or actual state of a matter:
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
That does not mean an event described did or did not happen only until such time as you can verify it with fact in order to satisfy the burden of the definition of truth it is referred to as alleged. It is not claiming anyone to be a liar only that such an account is not able to be documented as truth according to definition. It should not be reported or referred to as fact until such time as one can meet the burden of proof required to refer to said event as factual. Until such a time as it can be it is opinion ( be it true or untrue) and should be noted as such. It's pretty simple Michael Vick was accused of fighting dogs some think he was a nice person some do not think so, either is irrelevant until he was given his day and a fair hearing which means both parties get to defend their positions and a decision is rendered. He was alleged to have been involved in fighting dogs. The fact is that the charge was true in the end, but it was not referred to as so, until the burden was met. Pretty simple.........
i have plenty of truth in my life i cant proof in any way.
a couple big ones off the cuff
big fat cats who have over ate their entire life should not be put on a diet and you sleep at night with your eyes closed.
my truth i live it i sling it around as a gospel really. want to see arm which is flesh and blood which i can prove in a court of law. they bleed when biten .
then there is that web page or book written about the succes of a healthy diet and excersize for a happy pet. their truth is not my truth.
i love my children and grand children very much i can show it but i cant prove it esp. when they were teens. in a case like that i hope in my own truth.
facts can be proven or not truth is relative i see a difference.
Let's set a few things straight. there is not a poster named vixxxen on this site. A poster by that name said something about Larry Moore on a site that has NO association with this site. I don't see ANY reason for it being part of a discussion here. Many of you have other boards that you visit. I would think it would be inappropriate to bring discussions from another site to this site. We have more than enough stuff on this board going on than to bring another board's discussions over here.
And this hearsay is just that hearsay. Furthermore this forum is "About the Way" So I am going to delete the posts that are "About the Vixxxen"
It separates the text in your post from the text in your "signature".
If you click on "My Control Panel" at the top, it will take you to your controls.
Once you are there, find "Personal Profile" in the left column.
Click on "edit signature" and type in your signature of choice.
Then it will put your own "signature" at the end of each post.
Is that what you were referring to?
yes
thank you
About the vixen thing i have no idea who that is was or will and said so I thought he was one of santa reindeer.
must be a sensitive topic , i meant no harm, i do not kepp up with the where with all of who is who to much, thanks for the clarifying pawtucket. and look I know bumpy pushes buttons.. let it be known honestly he has alot more inside info than i seem to and he is fun if not more trouble.
Personally speaking...the dots represent my pauses in thought.....it is how I speak in real life...a pause or hesitation at the end of a sentence as I gather or formulate my thoughts for my next idea.
It is how I communicate in real life....and has bled over into the way I communicate here I guess.
Just a personal idiosyncracy that has no special hidden meaning or agenda :)
Probably not Bumpster, but then at least it would be my choice then. Why don't you make another place to play for you guys!?
As it is, I choose not to put anyone on "ignore" because I don't want my computer to think for me. Even if I find someone to be tediously stubborn; unwilling and/or unable to come to terms with a very serious topic like you are Bumpster I still read them. Who knows if there could be more to them than it seems? I choose patience, I choose to keep my eyes and ears open, I choose to take it all in, and I choose to keep thinking after taking it all in.
This is the exact same way I choose to think of TWI. I remember good people from my days with TWI. Others , it seems were abused in one fashon or another and as I've plainly said, I get a little steamed about it at times. So what, my emotional response to abuse is about the same as always. Even as I get steamed I remember to not let my emotions take me to a place where I become as bad as the abusers. A lot of it is about intentions.
As a PFAL grad, I choose to not put blinders on myself by false assumptions that sins were covered by the Lord. If they were then the ones who were abusive would know that when they've been forgiven it's their Christian duty to bind the wounded at the expense of their reputations if necessary. Maybe the ones that think they are big names just need to pull their heads out of their own reputations. (I deliberately intend the double meaning there.)
As a PFAL grad I choose to hold on to what I remember as the Grace of God. Rest assured no one ever programed me to do that, I CHOOSE TO. In the mean time I refuse to put down people who share the abuse they've suffered through; like Bumpster,Pond,& White Dove have done to several people here. Remember you guys that I choose not to judge your intentions, but I continue to despise what you've done.
As a PFAL grad I choose to take any heat that comes my way from the "wounded and hurting" because of the pain they've suffered. I don't blame them. I just patiently endure their well earned venting because if it's in truth the Grace of God that I remember then God will strengthen me and allow them to heal. The worst thing that can happen is that my own bubble is burst, but if God put the bubble there then he won't let it burst. I won't make things worse by attacking people who've been abused because of some loveless, misguided, & twisted opinion of what Love or Loyalty is all about.
This is one thing I'll share that I do judge. Any attempt to live in the love of God that puts people down who've been wounded is destructive, deluded, cruel, and must be stopped.
About the vixen thing i have no idea who that is was or will and said so I thought he was one of santa reindeer.
must be a sensitive topic , i meant no harm, i do not kepp up with the where with all of who is who to much, thanks for the clarifying pawtucket. and look I know bumpy pushes buttons.. let it be known honestly he has alot more inside info than i seem to and he is fun if not more trouble.
YES POND, IT IS INDEED WHAT IT IS, WHAT IT WAS, WHAT IT SHALL BE!! I KNOW YOU MEANT NO HARM AND YOU DO NOT KEEP UP WITH THE WHERE WITHAL OF WHO IS WHO, ETC., ETC., BUT SOMEHOW, BUMPY MUST BE A DANGEROUS TIGER WHO KNOWS TOO MUCH "INSIDE INFO!
SO BETTER BE CAREFUL, YOU MIGHT BECOME INFECTED IF YOU KNOW TOO MUCH (HEARSAY). BUT, AS THE MAN IS THE HEAD OF THE WIFE, SO IS THE DELETE BUTTON A PROTECTOR OF ALL THOSE WHO GRAZE QUIETLY, IN PEACE, AT THE FARM!
Once upon a time, there was a stranger, a man dressed in a black suit and tie...and all the little boys & girls watched him as he explained HOW to understand a little magic book of words...
I think we have been around this track before and defined it many times but hey whats one more time! In a public media format such as the internet, a newspaper Truth is
1. the true or actual state of a matter:
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
That does not mean an event described did or did not happen only until such time as you can verify it with fact in order to satisfy the burden of the definition of truth it is referred to as alleged. It is not claiming anyone to be a liar only that such an account is not able to be documented as truth according to definition. It should not be reported or referred to as fact until such time as one can meet the burden of proof required to refer to said event as factual. Until such a time as it can be it is opinion ( be it true or untrue) and should be noted as such. It's pretty simple Michael Vick was accused of fighting dogs some think he was a nice person some do not think so, either is irrelevant until he was given his day and a fair hearing which means both parties get to defend their positions and a decision is rendered. He was alleged to have been involved in fighting dogs. The fact is that the charge was true in the end, but it was not referred to as so, until the burden was met. Pretty simple.........
yes, it's all been gone over before, and yet the burden of proof does not a truth make, nor is truth the relativistic concept some like to push when they're whining about people presenting the facts of their own experiences.
As a PFAL grad I choose to hold on to what I remember as the Grace of God. Rest assured no one ever programed me to do that, I CHOOSE TO. In the mean time I refuse to put down people who share the abuse they've suffered through; like Bumpster,Pond,& White Dove have done to several people here. Remember you guys that I choose not to judge your intentions, but I continue to despise what you've done.
Jeff
Since you are throwing my name about I'll remind you that I never put down anyone here . I simply asked that if someone was accusing another of a crime ,or any likewise serious charge ,they should in a public format have some documentable evidence to back up their story . This is common place in the media and a reasonable request. I doubt you would feel so compelled to accept the heat as you put it if I were to accuse you of being a child molester. I'm guessing that you would want some explanation why I thought so, some reason for my accusation maybe? I was hurt, can I just say anything I want about you and you'll just let it slide? Doubtful.........
Although it would be swell to catch all crimes on videotape, it just doesn't work that way. If someone is raped in a back alley, is it not a crime because there were no witnesses other than the victim?
Although it would be swell to catch all crimes on videotape, it just doesn't work that way. If someone is raped in a back alley, is it not a crime because there were no witnesses other than the victim?
George
It's not a crime until proven a crime that's how the justice system works in the USA
The way it works is they call the police, go to the dr's or hospital get test that involve dna and evidence that a rape happened and the experts then begin an investigation in which an arrest is made and conviction is sought.
or wait untill the crime is twenty years old and the person is confirmed dead and join an anounymous group without your name and write on an public internet forum all about it.
Naturaly the outcome and reaction may differ greatly. I have no opinion on whether or not crimes have been comminted, i do have an opinion on how to prosecute alleged crimes.
and a public internet forum with anounymous names and no dates or specifics can not allow anything other than allegation.
people say and do many different things in life, a standard of proof must be met to satisfy the laws we have written and to prosecute those who break them .
Some people regret the choices they made while involved with twi, and now blame the organization for the outcome of those personal choices such as having an abortion, not having children, never getting married, wasted money given to them , lack of higher education, etc.
the fact a person feels "peer pressure" or professional pressure , or even financial pressure to make a choice that has not been good for their life, in hind sight many years later ,is NOT a crime. a shame but not illegal in any sense of the word.
By laws written "the people" can not just accuse others of wrong doing without some responsibility to be honest anf factual to the best of our ability.
i once had a neighbor many years tell the police a lie about me, after an investigation was done she went to a jail that night for lying to the police, we had a mom report her child missing here when in fact she knew the where the child was the enitre time the investigation was being held, she was also prosecuted.
I agree we must forgive and TRY to forget. Until then, this is our greatest source of comfort with those who shared the experience. It is tough to forgive, I know, especially those who were sexually abused by Way leaders. Amazingly, some have. But the toughest part is forgetting. We sure hate those old feelings coming back once we try to put them behind.
yes, it's all been gone over before, and yet the burden of proof does not a truth make, nor is truth the relativistic concept some like to push when they're whining about people presenting the facts of their own experiences.
Thats just it there are no facts presented...... Only a one sided version. Or what they thought they may have heard or at least maybe understood them to mean or well hey they made me wash my face once and I didn't like that so what the hell I'll just say anything cause I don't like that person. So Drew Peterson says he did nothing to his wife or wives by your standard do we just believe his facts of his experiance? Maybe you should call the police and let them know that what he says is truth because he says so . They wont be needing any facts to get in the way of his experiance.
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WhiteDove
Or it says that it was worth repeating and that no addition is necessary.
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WhiteDove
I think we have been around this track before and defined it many times but hey whats one more time! In a public media format such as the internet, a newspaper Truth is
1. the true or actual state of a matter:
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
That does not mean an event described did or did not happen only until such time as you can verify it with fact in order to satisfy the burden of the definition of truth it is referred to as alleged. It is not claiming anyone to be a liar only that such an account is not able to be documented as truth according to definition. It should not be reported or referred to as fact until such time as one can meet the burden of proof required to refer to said event as factual. Until such a time as it can be it is opinion ( be it true or untrue) and should be noted as such. It's pretty simple Michael Vick was accused of fighting dogs some think he was a nice person some do not think so, either is irrelevant until he was given his day and a fair hearing which means both parties get to defend their positions and a decision is rendered. He was alleged to have been involved in fighting dogs. The fact is that the charge was true in the end, but it was not referred to as so, until the burden was met. Pretty simple.........
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pond
Well
i have plenty of truth in my life i cant proof in any way.
a couple big ones off the cuff
big fat cats who have over ate their entire life should not be put on a diet and you sleep at night with your eyes closed.
my truth i live it i sling it around as a gospel really. want to see arm which is flesh and blood which i can prove in a court of law. they bleed when biten .
then there is that web page or book written about the succes of a healthy diet and excersize for a happy pet. their truth is not my truth.
i love my children and grand children very much i can show it but i cant prove it esp. when they were teens. in a case like that i hope in my own truth.
facts can be proven or not truth is relative i see a difference.
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Outfield
Pond and Bumpy - you both are just obnoxious. Go off and start your own thread where you two can act like teenagers together.
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waysider
Pond
The------------ is put there automatically.
It separates the text in your post from the text in your "signature".
If you click on "My Control Panel" at the top, it will take you to your controls.
Once you are there, find "Personal Profile" in the left column.
Click on "edit signature" and type in your signature of choice.
Then it will put your own "signature" at the end of each post.
Is that what you were referring to?
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pawtucket
Let's set a few things straight. there is not a poster named vixxxen on this site. A poster by that name said something about Larry Moore on a site that has NO association with this site. I don't see ANY reason for it being part of a discussion here. Many of you have other boards that you visit. I would think it would be inappropriate to bring discussions from another site to this site. We have more than enough stuff on this board going on than to bring another board's discussions over here.
And this hearsay is just that hearsay. Furthermore this forum is "About the Way" So I am going to delete the posts that are "About the Vixxxen"
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pond
yes
thank you
About the vixen thing i have no idea who that is was or will and said so I thought he was one of santa reindeer.
must be a sensitive topic , i meant no harm, i do not kepp up with the where with all of who is who to much, thanks for the clarifying pawtucket. and look I know bumpy pushes buttons.. let it be known honestly he has alot more inside info than i seem to and he is fun if not more trouble.
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rascal
Personally speaking...the dots represent my pauses in thought.....it is how I speak in real life...a pause or hesitation at the end of a sentence as I gather or formulate my thoughts for my next idea.
It is how I communicate in real life....and has bled over into the way I communicate here I guess.
Just a personal idiosyncracy that has no special hidden meaning or agenda :)
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Bumpy
IF WE DID...would you come & play with us?? :)
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JeffSjo
Probably not Bumpster, but then at least it would be my choice then. Why don't you make another place to play for you guys!?
As it is, I choose not to put anyone on "ignore" because I don't want my computer to think for me. Even if I find someone to be tediously stubborn; unwilling and/or unable to come to terms with a very serious topic like you are Bumpster I still read them. Who knows if there could be more to them than it seems? I choose patience, I choose to keep my eyes and ears open, I choose to take it all in, and I choose to keep thinking after taking it all in.
This is the exact same way I choose to think of TWI. I remember good people from my days with TWI. Others , it seems were abused in one fashon or another and as I've plainly said, I get a little steamed about it at times. So what, my emotional response to abuse is about the same as always. Even as I get steamed I remember to not let my emotions take me to a place where I become as bad as the abusers. A lot of it is about intentions.
As a PFAL grad, I choose to not put blinders on myself by false assumptions that sins were covered by the Lord. If they were then the ones who were abusive would know that when they've been forgiven it's their Christian duty to bind the wounded at the expense of their reputations if necessary. Maybe the ones that think they are big names just need to pull their heads out of their own reputations. (I deliberately intend the double meaning there.)
As a PFAL grad I choose to hold on to what I remember as the Grace of God. Rest assured no one ever programed me to do that, I CHOOSE TO. In the mean time I refuse to put down people who share the abuse they've suffered through; like Bumpster,Pond,& White Dove have done to several people here. Remember you guys that I choose not to judge your intentions, but I continue to despise what you've done.
As a PFAL grad I choose to take any heat that comes my way from the "wounded and hurting" because of the pain they've suffered. I don't blame them. I just patiently endure their well earned venting because if it's in truth the Grace of God that I remember then God will strengthen me and allow them to heal. The worst thing that can happen is that my own bubble is burst, but if God put the bubble there then he won't let it burst. I won't make things worse by attacking people who've been abused because of some loveless, misguided, & twisted opinion of what Love or Loyalty is all about.
This is one thing I'll share that I do judge. Any attempt to live in the love of God that puts people down who've been wounded is destructive, deluded, cruel, and must be stopped.
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Bumpy
I can't tell you...I've been DELETED!!
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JeffSjo
I've always enjoyed "Calvin and Hobbes", that I understand. I'm still watching you though Bumpster.
What is this "I've been deleted?"
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waysider
Hi JJ (It's easier to type but I'll change it if you don't like it.)
The "deleted" reference concerns post #732.
Suffice it to say, it involves a situation that occurred before you arrived.
If I gave you any more detail than that, you would probably do this:
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Bumpy
YES POND, IT IS INDEED WHAT IT IS, WHAT IT WAS, WHAT IT SHALL BE!! I KNOW YOU MEANT NO HARM AND YOU DO NOT KEEP UP WITH THE WHERE WITHAL OF WHO IS WHO, ETC., ETC., BUT SOMEHOW, BUMPY MUST BE A DANGEROUS TIGER WHO KNOWS TOO MUCH "INSIDE INFO!
SO BETTER BE CAREFUL, YOU MIGHT BECOME INFECTED IF YOU KNOW TOO MUCH (HEARSAY). BUT, AS THE MAN IS THE HEAD OF THE WIFE, SO IS THE DELETE BUTTON A PROTECTOR OF ALL THOSE WHO GRAZE QUIETLY, IN PEACE, AT THE FARM!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once upon a time, there was a stranger, a man dressed in a black suit and tie...and all the little boys & girls watched him as he explained HOW to understand a little magic book of words...
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Bumpy
WELL, WHILE YOU'RE WATCHING, DO ME A FAVOR AND GIVE ME HAIRCUT & A SHAVE, OK?
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potato
yes, it's all been gone over before, and yet the burden of proof does not a truth make, nor is truth the relativistic concept some like to push when they're whining about people presenting the facts of their own experiences.
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WhiteDove
Jeff
Since you are throwing my name about I'll remind you that I never put down anyone here . I simply asked that if someone was accusing another of a crime ,or any likewise serious charge ,they should in a public format have some documentable evidence to back up their story . This is common place in the media and a reasonable request. I doubt you would feel so compelled to accept the heat as you put it if I were to accuse you of being a child molester. I'm guessing that you would want some explanation why I thought so, some reason for my accusation maybe? I was hurt, can I just say anything I want about you and you'll just let it slide? Doubtful.........
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GeorgeStGeorge
WD,
Although it would be swell to catch all crimes on videotape, it just doesn't work that way. If someone is raped in a back alley, is it not a crime because there were no witnesses other than the victim?
George
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WhiteDove
It's not a crime until proven a crime that's how the justice system works in the USA
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pond
The way it works is they call the police, go to the dr's or hospital get test that involve dna and evidence that a rape happened and the experts then begin an investigation in which an arrest is made and conviction is sought.
or wait untill the crime is twenty years old and the person is confirmed dead and join an anounymous group without your name and write on an public internet forum all about it.
Naturaly the outcome and reaction may differ greatly. I have no opinion on whether or not crimes have been comminted, i do have an opinion on how to prosecute alleged crimes.
and a public internet forum with anounymous names and no dates or specifics can not allow anything other than allegation.
people say and do many different things in life, a standard of proof must be met to satisfy the laws we have written and to prosecute those who break them .
Some people regret the choices they made while involved with twi, and now blame the organization for the outcome of those personal choices such as having an abortion, not having children, never getting married, wasted money given to them , lack of higher education, etc.
the fact a person feels "peer pressure" or professional pressure , or even financial pressure to make a choice that has not been good for their life, in hind sight many years later ,is NOT a crime. a shame but not illegal in any sense of the word.
By laws written "the people" can not just accuse others of wrong doing without some responsibility to be honest anf factual to the best of our ability.
i once had a neighbor many years tell the police a lie about me, after an investigation was done she went to a jail that night for lying to the police, we had a mom report her child missing here when in fact she knew the where the child was the enitre time the investigation was being held, she was also prosecuted.
slander and lying to authorities is a crime.
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Eagle
I agree we must forgive and TRY to forget. Until then, this is our greatest source of comfort with those who shared the experience. It is tough to forgive, I know, especially those who were sexually abused by Way leaders. Amazingly, some have. But the toughest part is forgetting. We sure hate those old feelings coming back once we try to put them behind.
I've received a lot of comfort from posters here.
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WhiteDove
Thats just it there are no facts presented...... Only a one sided version. Or what they thought they may have heard or at least maybe understood them to mean or well hey they made me wash my face once and I didn't like that so what the hell I'll just say anything cause I don't like that person. So Drew Peterson says he did nothing to his wife or wives by your standard do we just believe his facts of his experiance? Maybe you should call the police and let them know that what he says is truth because he says so . They wont be needing any facts to get in the way of his experiance.
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pond
For me it has been important to not forget, i can not forget ,it stunned my life in such a way it changed the moon and the stars as i knew them
no forgeting for me, But i did prosecute and found some justice at the time, and will indeed wait for the vengence of the LORD.
for me that is enough. and peace is brought into my life by not forgetting all the Lord has done for me then and now and forever.
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waysider
"If a tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear?"--------Bruce Cockburn
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