So what did you want to talk about ? I found it interesting that he taught two classes at Pikes Peak Seminary while working on his doctor of theology degree - Radio Preaching Techniques and Peter the Preacher.
I've been told that the Way is again selling books to those who want them don't know if that is true or notbut that is what I was told. You might try.
I called the HQ Bookstore a little over a year ago, and they were very polite and sent me a price listing that served as a catalog. Friends of mind have ordered and received books and materials. They have lightened up greatly in this category.
I don't know what kind of a "black List" they might still have, but they have always been nice to me in phone calls in recent years. In previous years I was black listed, and they told me back then. They have lightened up greatly in THIS category too.
HOWEVER, they have messed with the books. They changed a lot of things, including page numbers, so it’s a nightmare when it comes to accurately mastering what Dr left us with. The editing started slowly, the very year of his death in 1985, but they really botched things up with the “prevailing word edition” around 2000. In my fellowship we stay away from the new editions and regard them as entirely untrustworthy.
I called the HQ Bookstore a little over a year ago, and they were very polite and sent me a price listing that served as a catalog. Friends of mind have ordered and received books and materials. They have lightened up greatly in this category.
I did that two or three years ago (just as a test) and got the same result...
MAYBE, by then you may be mildly entertaining? <_<
Well I'm not sure how many are here to amuse .... yous ...
I can't offer any psychological analysis, but many went in to twi a little vulnerable, and came out, some better more worse? As to whether there is some beneficial group support here, I dunno ... or if folks want to present the other side ... OK.
But for thse still living a little on edge, this might be Offensive amusing ... for all of us that may need professional help ... but choose to self medicate ... pour an egg nog and sing along.
I'm definitely a # 10.....wait let me think about that....uhm...yup...a # 10.....no wait, let me look over the other ones....................................oh yeah, definitely # 10.......wait better look that list over again....yeah - - 10..
Hold on a minute.........I better really think this over.....oh silly me - 10, 10, 10 of course I'm a 10!
[edited just to make sure I got it right - - I'm a 10.....Did I tell you that already?]
[okay - I'm looking at my post on this thread - yes, this very post - just wanting to verify I did put # 10 down]
I'm definitely a # 10.....wait let me think about that....uhm...yup...a # 10.....no wait, let me look over the other ones....................................oh yeah, definitely # 10.......wait better look that list over again....yeah - - 10..
Hold on a minute.........I better really think this over.....oh silly me - 10, 10, 10 of course I'm a 10!
[edited just to make sure I got it right - - I'm a 10.....Did I tell you that already?]
[okay - I'm looking at my post on this thread - yes, this very post - just wanting to verify I did put # 10 down]
Just a quick follow up post - I did mention I was a # 10 ?
Just seeing if these posts were deleted...also making sure I didn't choose a disappearing ink font or something.
[this post has been edited for an R10 rating for Reading this post ten times is mandatory]
.....imho, wth,.....the greatest "offence" is that lcm, rosie, twi and all of it's offshoots, still believe they owe no one any apologies!...........they see no need for their repentance before god and the lord jesus christ!..........
Ah... apologies. Offended people always think apologies are owed to them. When that doesn't happen according to their terms and conditions they remain offended and become self-righteous and judgmental themselves. Was it something someone did that offended you, or was it the truth that was preached to you that you didn’t like that offended you? The Jews had the truth taught to them and they stumbled and became offended. They didn’t like the truth that justification and salvation came by the cross of Christ. They thought the way to being justified was through the keeping of the law, so they stumbled at the truth. They stumbled at the truth and couldn’t receive it.
If a truth from the Word of God comes to you and if you don’t walk in that truth, then you also become offended. Now most people don’t call it that. What people don’t realize is that there are two sources for being offended. Is it something someone did wrong to you, or was it the truth that came to you that you didn’t like? The Jews had the truth presented to them, that salvation was through faith and not by the works of the law and they were offended by the claims of Jesus Christ. They thought the law was the way to be justified and sanctified before God so they stumbled at the faith of the cross. (1 Corinthians 1:22,23)
Now the way one gets out of offence is by realizing what they stumbled at. The way one gets out of the offence of someone who did you wrong is different than the way you get out of the offence of stumbling over the truth of God’s Word. Well, you may disagree. If it is the truth, then it doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree – or even if I agree or disagree. If we don’t walk in the light of the truth then we are offended. What does that mean? It means we stumble. That means you’re not going any further because when light comes you have to walk in that light, otherwise you stumble. It is the entrance of God’s Word that gives light. When light comes then you walk in that, so when the Word of God is taught and more light comes to you as you walk in that light further revelation also comes to you. But if you don’t walk in the light, then you cease to walk altogether. You can’t run the race that is set before you as you can’t even walk without the light.
When Jesus preached the Word of God many were offended at his claims, of who he claimed to be, etc. I always thought if someone was offended at me then I must have done something wrong. Yes, sometimes you have to ask yourself – did I do them wrong? If it’s true then its true and I need to repent, but if it’s not true then I don’t need to ask for forgiveness for something I didn’t do. You don’t owe someone an apology for something you didn’t do, and you don’t have to apologize for something you didn’t do. The reason we think people owe us an apology is because we think they wronged us, and the reason they don’t apologize is simply because they don’t believe they wronged us at all.
But I was talking earlier about the process of restoring fellowship with one who was offended. In that process repentance is not involved (repentance is for the unsaved sinner) but that of forgiveness (forgiveness is for the one who is saved). Now I haven't read anywhere in the Word of God it is always guaranteed one can restore the fellowship they once had with someone. There are many factors that come into play as to whether that is possible or not – i.e. what was the relationship before the offence took place? What value do you have (and what value does the other person have) toward that relationship? Those are probably the primary questions.
Many times the reason we feel people owe us an apology is largely because we feel something of value was lost. The reason someone may not apologize to us is largely due to what they value themselves out of the relationship. If LCM and Rosie etc., have not apologized (and they don’t intend to) then what value is the relationship to them – or even to you for that matter? Perhaps the better question to ask yourself is: What is it that you value the most? Because whatever you value the most is your god – (or your God) and there certainly are a lot of gods alive and well in America today, not necessarily the true God. Now a lot of people value money more than a lot of other things, perhaps even more than the relationships they have with others. Now there is nothing wrong with money in and of itself, unless you are relying on it and somehow it meets your needs far more than what you are relying on God to meet your needs. Yeah, money is one of the many gods that people do have.
But I believe there is something we as Americans today have come to value far more than money, and that is: privacy. That’s right. We don’t want people getting into our lives, or being involved in our lives or having to share our lives with one another – the essence of what real relationships are about. Many times the god that we are worshipping is simply ourselves - and we have not come to realize or have dealt well at all with the god of our own privacy. That too, I believe, also comes into play as to whether or not you are capable of restoring the relationship you had with someone who may be offended.
When I apologize to someone, it's because it's my fault. For me to attack them because they're mad still would be heartless and selfish. After all, it's my fault they're mad, not their's.
Many in positions of leadership in the old days perfected this behavior until it was virtually an art form, in the most abusive way. When anything is done like that, and then the heartless and brutal behavior is justified by quoting scripture like " put away bitterness", people end up growing into a seething anger and a loss of respect for the leadership.
Lately I'm not surprised at all the wreckage that's out there, but I don't see any way at all that it could have stood at all. Why would the Lord allow it to stand with so much lovelessness going on?
When Jesus preached the Word of God many were offended at his claims, of who he claimed to be, etc. I always thought if someone was offended at me then I must have done something wrong. Yes, sometimes you have to ask yourself – did I do them wrong? If it’s true then its true and I need to repent, but if it’s not true then I don’t need to ask for forgiveness for something I didn’t do. You don’t owe someone an apology for something you didn’t do, and you don’t have to apologize for something you didn’t do. The reason we think people owe us an apology is because we think they wronged us, and the reason they don’t apologize is simply because they don’t believe they wronged us at all.
What has this got to do with anything? The simple matter of fact is that they did do wrong... not a perception and certainly not comparable to Jesus preaching.
Offended people always think apologies are owed to them. When that doesn't happen according to their terms and conditions they remain offended and become self-righteous and judgmental themselves.
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WhiteDove
So what did you want to talk about ? I found it interesting that he taught two classes at Pikes Peak Seminary while working on his doctor of theology degree - Radio Preaching Techniques and Peter the Preacher.
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Mike
I called the HQ Bookstore a little over a year ago, and they were very polite and sent me a price listing that served as a catalog. Friends of mind have ordered and received books and materials. They have lightened up greatly in this category.
I don't know what kind of a "black List" they might still have, but they have always been nice to me in phone calls in recent years. In previous years I was black listed, and they told me back then. They have lightened up greatly in THIS category too.
HOWEVER, they have messed with the books. They changed a lot of things, including page numbers, so it’s a nightmare when it comes to accurately mastering what Dr left us with. The editing started slowly, the very year of his death in 1985, but they really botched things up with the “prevailing word edition” around 2000. In my fellowship we stay away from the new editions and regard them as entirely untrustworthy.
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WordWolf
Probably the simple mistake of "reading fast" would be the reason it seems that way.
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skyrider
One thread that discusses *some* of Mrs. Wierwille's book in details is.....
Outreach beyond vpw's congregation
I am bumping it to the front.
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WhiteDove
One thread that discusses *some* of Mrs. Wierwille's book in details is.....
Outreach beyond vpw's congregation
I am bumping it to the front.
Thanks I will read it when I can .
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Tom Strange
I did that two or three years ago (just as a test) and got the same result...
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Ham
Probably "lightened up" after finding the Belezian folks could legally print and sell abandoned material..
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rhino
Well I'm not sure how many are here to amuse .... yous ...
I can't offer any psychological analysis, but many went in to twi a little vulnerable, and came out, some better more worse? As to whether there is some beneficial group support here, I dunno ... or if folks want to present the other side ... OK.
But for thse still living a little on edge, this might be Offensive amusing ... for all of us that may need professional help ... but choose to self medicate ... pour an egg nog and sing along.
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Ham
Hmm. I think I'm number five. That is, when I'm not sleeping..
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potato
#9!
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T-Bone
I'm definitely a # 10.....wait let me think about that....uhm...yup...a # 10.....no wait, let me look over the other ones....................................oh yeah, definitely # 10.......wait better look that list over again....yeah - - 10..
Hold on a minute.........I better really think this over.....oh silly me - 10, 10, 10 of course I'm a 10!
[edited just to make sure I got it right - - I'm a 10.....Did I tell you that already?]
[okay - I'm looking at my post on this thread - yes, this very post - just wanting to verify I did put # 10 down]
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T-Bone
Just a quick follow up post - I did mention I was a # 10 ?
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excathedra
i'll be darned
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doojable
So.. is that a command? A sentence? Whom? Who's?
Just had to ask that (you all know you were thinking that too! ;))
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T-Bone
Just seeing if these posts were deleted...also making sure I didn't choose a disappearing ink font or something.
[this post has been edited for an R10 rating for Reading this post ten times is mandatory]
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Tom Strange
I started out as a number 6 but now I'm a number 3.
yeah dooj... it's a command!
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doojable
Ewwwwwwwww... :unsure: That's what I was afraid of...
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excathedra
ewwwwww is right
i also wanted to add that chrisgeer is a peter and peterpreacher
(sticking my tongue out because i don't feel like finding a little picture)
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What The Hey
Ah... apologies. Offended people always think apologies are owed to them. When that doesn't happen according to their terms and conditions they remain offended and become self-righteous and judgmental themselves. Was it something someone did that offended you, or was it the truth that was preached to you that you didn’t like that offended you? The Jews had the truth taught to them and they stumbled and became offended. They didn’t like the truth that justification and salvation came by the cross of Christ. They thought the way to being justified was through the keeping of the law, so they stumbled at the truth. They stumbled at the truth and couldn’t receive it.
If a truth from the Word of God comes to you and if you don’t walk in that truth, then you also become offended. Now most people don’t call it that. What people don’t realize is that there are two sources for being offended. Is it something someone did wrong to you, or was it the truth that came to you that you didn’t like? The Jews had the truth presented to them, that salvation was through faith and not by the works of the law and they were offended by the claims of Jesus Christ. They thought the law was the way to be justified and sanctified before God so they stumbled at the faith of the cross. (1 Corinthians 1:22,23)
Now the way one gets out of offence is by realizing what they stumbled at. The way one gets out of the offence of someone who did you wrong is different than the way you get out of the offence of stumbling over the truth of God’s Word. Well, you may disagree. If it is the truth, then it doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree – or even if I agree or disagree. If we don’t walk in the light of the truth then we are offended. What does that mean? It means we stumble. That means you’re not going any further because when light comes you have to walk in that light, otherwise you stumble. It is the entrance of God’s Word that gives light. When light comes then you walk in that, so when the Word of God is taught and more light comes to you as you walk in that light further revelation also comes to you. But if you don’t walk in the light, then you cease to walk altogether. You can’t run the race that is set before you as you can’t even walk without the light.
When Jesus preached the Word of God many were offended at his claims, of who he claimed to be, etc. I always thought if someone was offended at me then I must have done something wrong. Yes, sometimes you have to ask yourself – did I do them wrong? If it’s true then its true and I need to repent, but if it’s not true then I don’t need to ask for forgiveness for something I didn’t do. You don’t owe someone an apology for something you didn’t do, and you don’t have to apologize for something you didn’t do. The reason we think people owe us an apology is because we think they wronged us, and the reason they don’t apologize is simply because they don’t believe they wronged us at all.
But I was talking earlier about the process of restoring fellowship with one who was offended. In that process repentance is not involved (repentance is for the unsaved sinner) but that of forgiveness (forgiveness is for the one who is saved). Now I haven't read anywhere in the Word of God it is always guaranteed one can restore the fellowship they once had with someone. There are many factors that come into play as to whether that is possible or not – i.e. what was the relationship before the offence took place? What value do you have (and what value does the other person have) toward that relationship? Those are probably the primary questions.
Many times the reason we feel people owe us an apology is largely because we feel something of value was lost. The reason someone may not apologize to us is largely due to what they value themselves out of the relationship. If LCM and Rosie etc., have not apologized (and they don’t intend to) then what value is the relationship to them – or even to you for that matter? Perhaps the better question to ask yourself is: What is it that you value the most? Because whatever you value the most is your god – (or your God) and there certainly are a lot of gods alive and well in America today, not necessarily the true God. Now a lot of people value money more than a lot of other things, perhaps even more than the relationships they have with others. Now there is nothing wrong with money in and of itself, unless you are relying on it and somehow it meets your needs far more than what you are relying on God to meet your needs. Yeah, money is one of the many gods that people do have.
But I believe there is something we as Americans today have come to value far more than money, and that is: privacy. That’s right. We don’t want people getting into our lives, or being involved in our lives or having to share our lives with one another – the essence of what real relationships are about. Many times the god that we are worshipping is simply ourselves - and we have not come to realize or have dealt well at all with the god of our own privacy. That too, I believe, also comes into play as to whether or not you are capable of restoring the relationship you had with someone who may be offended.
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JeffSjo
When I apologize to someone, it's because it's my fault. For me to attack them because they're mad still would be heartless and selfish. After all, it's my fault they're mad, not their's.
Many in positions of leadership in the old days perfected this behavior until it was virtually an art form, in the most abusive way. When anything is done like that, and then the heartless and brutal behavior is justified by quoting scripture like " put away bitterness", people end up growing into a seething anger and a loss of respect for the leadership.
Lately I'm not surprised at all the wreckage that's out there, but I don't see any way at all that it could have stood at all. Why would the Lord allow it to stand with so much lovelessness going on?
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Ham
So what's wrong with an apology? I'm not exactly expecting one, but..
with an apology one reclaims at least some of the power over their life they gave to another (the "offended").
Some of these jokers in the "ministry" revealed the deepest dark recesses of their psyche to me..
things I'd rather not see in another human being, or even believe it's possible.
the raw egotism along with it's unreasonable demands for loyalty, unchecked ambition.. paranoia and unreasonable fears, etc. etc..
I'd REALLY like to see some good in them. Unfortunately for them, they aren't ready to show me that side of their personality.
I really think that if one really "wrongs" a brother, the person is really giving something away. What are they giving.. hmm..
one's reputation, if one had a good one to begin with.
free and often documentable verification that the person was the a** that some may have suspected..
power to do as one wishes..
look at der vey.. every time they rear their ugly head and try to advertise, they get a beating. Yep, we're still here..
an apology would at the least soften some of the consequences.
some in the ministry were so mean and rotten to the body of Christ as a whole, nothing less than a public apology would fix very much.
look at loy. Even with a half hearted "I'm sowy", I think a lot of people here would say "fine. at least we get some kind of closure."
You just know.. that what he has on the inside must be like a festering sore, with life just bleeding away..
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Tom Strange
What has this got to do with anything? The simple matter of fact is that they did do wrong... not a perception and certainly not comparable to Jesus preaching.
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excathedra
oh good one
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Ham
a lot of absolutes there too, "always"..
oh. What's wrong with other people's terms and conditions anyway?
just a simple little "whadda we gotta do to make this right.."
USUALLY, the terms and conditions are a heck of a lot lower than some people would expect.
Unless the "offense" involves some real serious criminal type activities..
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