Hi everyone

[JeffSjo]

I am not only new to this site but am also very new to computers in general and am only muddling through even now. Such terms as "post","e-mail", & "chat room" are very challenging to me, especially as far as using these things. My net access may be limited to weekly or even less often so I'll give this a try. I am very thankful to be a PFAL grad, and I am thankful for Dr. Wierwille. My perspective is as a person who did not see the darker things that obviously went on perhaps farther inside the workings of the ministry than I ever saw.

A lot of what I learned in the classes has stood the test of time as far as I'm concerned. As far as the hard times go, speculating on what went on back then, for me, seems foolish and dangerous. However,I don't think any situation as it may relate to anyone I know, or get to know can't be dealt with. It just has to be very personal in order to not speak about things I really don't know anything about.

My most recent experiences have been very hard on me, but I do think I've come out of them with a clear conscience. It did cost me a lot though. In many respects my life is broken. But the experiential knowledge I've gained from being on the recieving end of some very bad treatment has me thinking that perhaps I have something to give. I don't seem like "very much" by any objective angle I can think of, but my experiences haven't ruined my love for God's word. And I believe that that's enough for God to work with, even yet.

My observation is a simple one, God's word is painfully honest about his peoples shortcomings, I think that is very easy to read but hard to handle when the faults belong to self, leadership, or anyone that is closer to me than words in a book.

I hope my first ever posting anywhere on anything isn't blatantly offensive to anyone, I'm really just looking for good fellowship.

[excathedra]

hi jeff and welcome

i'm so sorry about the part "In many respects my life is broken"

you take care and i think you'll get the hang of the internet and stuff :)

[likeaneagle]

Hey Jeff-

Welcome to the Cafe..well, Thank you for sharing your heart..I truly hope you feel comfortbul posting..do not let your knowledge of computers keep you away, such as, sending me a picture with a huge stack of pancakes and fresh cup of coffee!! haha..

its good to talk things out..I hope you get the fellowship your looking for here..

[Suda]

Welcome to the Cafe, JeffSjo. Very good first post.

May I offer you some refreshments while you make yourself comfortable and get familiar with the Cafe? We're certainly glad you have joined us.

Enjoy yourself!

Suda

[waysider]

Hi there, JeffSjo

Glad you could make it to the party.

The band is on break at the moment, but the music should start very shortly.

If you need help finding something or doing something, please don't be shy.

[likeaneagle]

I am not only new to this site but am also very new to computers in general and am only muddling through even now. Such terms as "post","e-mail", & "chat room" are very challenging to me, especially as far as using these things. My net access may be limited to weekly or even less often so I'll give this a try. I am very thankful to be a PFAL grad, and I am thankful for Dr. Wierwille. My perspective is as a person who did not see the darker things that obviously went on perhaps farther inside the workings of the ministry than I ever saw.

A lot of what I learned in the classes has stood the test of time as far as I'm concerned. As far as the hard times go, speculating on what went on back then, for me, seems foolish and dangerous. However,I don't think any situation as it may relate to anyone I know, or get to know can't be dealt with. It just has to be very personal in order to not speak about things I really don't know anything about.

My most recent experiences have been very hard on me, but I do think I've come out of them with a clear conscience. It did cost me a lot though. In many respects my life is broken. But the experiential knowledge I've gained from being on the recieving end of some very bad treatment has me thinking that perhaps I have something to give. I don't seem like "very much" by any objective angle I can think of, but my experiences haven't ruined my love for God's word. And I believe that that's enough for God to work with, even yet.

My observation is a simple one, God's word is painfully honest about his peoples shortcomings, I think that is very easy to read but hard to handle when the faults belong to self, leadership, or anyone that is closer to me than words in a book.

I hope my first ever posting anywhere on anything isn't blatantly offensive to anyone, I'm really just looking for good fellowship.

Hugs to ya....lost of love of God's word is very honest Jeff, I know in my heart of hearts, he loves us, and know we are limited,despite experiences...I do know what you mean..

[JeffSjo]

Thank you everyone for the great responses. I'm able to get to the computer today,much sooner than I expected. :) But I probably won't be here long. I think the pictures looked very tasty, it was very easy to almost taste them. I do not know how to send pictures back, but hopefully it won' take me to long to learn. If there is a way to privatly respond to response postings I would like to learn that but there is no time for me to do that now. Thanks again everybody.

ps I was just messing around with trying to add a picture and now I'm not sure what this will look like when it's posted,,,,,,,wel here it goes.

[JeffSjo]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to share some more in terms of introducing myself. But before that, thank you everyone for the kind words to me. Recently I've been notified that no more personal attacks on my part will be tolerated, and I will be suspended if it happens again. Thanks for the correction moderator, I deserve it.

I've taken some time to evaluate my reasons for being here, the sites effect on me, and my possible effects on others.

My reasons for being here still hold for me, I'm looking for fellowship that's a blessing to me and others.

One of the effects on me of some of the threads here has been to stir up more than a little anger in me where I percieve deliberate and willfull attempts to bully people into being quite. In my anger I definately crossed the line and made personal attacks. My intent was to walk a thin line and defend some folks who were being bullied without going too far. I have no regrets as to my intentions, but I do regret calling certain people cowards, bulies, dishonest, manipulators, and accusing them of having cold hearted calculated intentions.

I also asked PAW for more editing work to keep a thread from being deliberatly sidetracked. I don't regret that. It sounds like PAW is moving in that direction and I'm thankful for it, and it appears that my own words will not be exempted from that, that's how it should be.

Another effect of this site on me I'll share is that the effects of having people share kind words with me in a certain way brings back some painful memories of people and family that I've lost. It's nobodie's fault here, it's just that a very dangerous and overbearing church leader has painfully removed everybody that was close to me, and kicked me out of the church. These events started happening about eight years ago and were culminated by losing my wife and child four years ago.

I tried to get with a church with a prison ministry focus after that, but the doctrinal differences that I was honest about, to the point of promising that I would not promote them were too much for this pastor. In spite of the fruit in people's lives that was becoming evident he decided he had to stop me from working with him in the ministry because of the doctrinal differences, and I was in no mood to be boxed in again by another man, so I left. In a way it was just as heartbreaking as what happened with my family and the first group I told you about. Nothing with the more mainline denominations has been any better since.

Ever since I've been looking for something to hold on to, but there's been a lot of loneliness, and a tremendous feeling of loss. And in many respects I'm not doing well. So I come here. It's plainly evident that while kind words here are very nice that they don't replace the good friends and family that I've lost. No matter how good these words here can be, it's just not the same as face to face. And sometimes the possibilities of friendships that might be but probably will never really happen are some of the most painful feelings I've ever felt. It's nobodies fault, it's just the limitations of this medium of communication.

I don't know what tomorrow wil bring, but I'm coming to terms with the limitations of this site, both in terms of how agressive I can be with people and how much I can expect from it.

[potato]

jeffsjo, I'm sorry for the loss of your family. I understand the loneliness and the feelings of loss. I was lonely every day when I was in twi, and it I still regret that I cannot feel close to people, and I regret the damage done to my kids, but it doesn't hurt like it used to. I feel like there is a lot to grieve when you come out of a situation like you or I have, and anger is a necessary part of it but so difficult to deal with! we can make the people around us so uncomfortable because there is no way they can understand and it's far too easy to cross lines and lash out. about 4 years ago, I stopped denying my emotions and decided to embrace my anger and make it a friend. people ran for the hills! but it's much tamer today and I'm a stronger person, and sometimes anger helps me get things done that I need to :) hang in there and keep working on it, it gets easier and won't always feel so fresh, like you're still in the middle of it.

[JeffSjo]

Thank you very much Sweetpotato,

I'm just glad that I'm still welcome here.

[skypilot]

I am not only new to this site but am also very new to computers in general and am only muddling through even now. Such terms as "post","e-mail", & "chat room" are very challenging to me, especially as far as using these things. My net access may be limited to weekly or even less often so I'll give this a try. I am very thankful to be a PFAL grad, and I am thankful for Dr. Wierwille. My perspective is as a person who did not see the darker things that obviously went on perhaps farther inside the workings of the ministry than I ever saw.

A lot of what I learned in the classes has stood the test of time as far as I'm concerned. As far as the hard times go, speculating on what went on back then, for me, seems foolish and dangerous. However,I don't think any situation as it may relate to anyone I know, or get to know can't be dealt with. It just has to be very personal in order to not speak about things I really don't know anything about.

My most recent experiences have been very hard on me, but I do think I've come out of them with a clear conscience. It did cost me a lot though. In many respects my life is broken. But the experiential knowledge I've gained from being on the recieving end of some very bad treatment has me thinking that perhaps I have something to give. I don't seem like "very much" by any objective angle I can think of, but my experiences haven't ruined my love for God's word. And I believe that that's enough for God to work with, even yet.

My observation is a simple one, God's word is painfully honest about his peoples shortcomings, I think that is very easy to read but hard to handle when the faults belong to self, leadership, or anyone that is closer to me than words in a book.

I hope my first ever posting anywhere on anything isn't blatantly offensive to anyone, I'm really just looking for good fellowship.

Thank you ...very proud to be your Brother Hang and rattle you will do very well and are an example to many of us. Happy Trailss mac

[JeffSjo]

I'm looking forward to fellowshipping with you skypilot.

[JeffSjo]

I'm not certain, but this posting may prove to serve as my good bye to you, dear friends of mine. Things are at a crisis point in my life and there is much that I've fallen behind on that are real and personal obligations of mine.

I'm not certain I'll have gas money to get to the computer any more, and my debts are very real. I may be required to do some emergency relocating since I can't pay my bills for lack of work. I'm sorry friends, it's not pretty, but so it is for me today. The house is cold and it's winter out there.

AS FAR AS GOD'S WORD, MY CONSCIENCE IS CLEAR. It's cost me a lot though, your prayers will perhaps mean a lot to me, God knows for sure.

posted from the library with real tears friends, good bye and take care.

[WordWolf]

I really would like to see you return, if possible.

I understand what you HAVE TO DO comes first.

I hope that LATER that will allow you to return.

Until then,

may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

[JeffSjo]

Thank you very much Wordwolf!!!!!

I've gotta go once again and I have no idea when I'll get back. But I really do miss the fellowship when I cannot get back.

Edited March 4, 2008 by JeffSjo

[shiftthis]

I am not only new to this site but am also very new to computers in general and am only muddling through even now. Such terms as "post","e-mail", & "chat room" are very challenging to me, especially as far as using these things. My net access may be limited to weekly or even less often so I'll give this a try. I am very thankful to be a PFAL grad, and I am thankful for Dr. Wierwille. My perspective is as a person who did not see the darker things that obviously went on perhaps farther inside the workings of the ministry than I ever saw.

A lot of what I learned in the classes has stood the test of time as far as I'm concerned. As far as the hard times go, speculating on what went on back then, for me, seems foolish and dangerous. However,I don't think any situation as it may relate to anyone I know, or get to know can't be dealt with. It just has to be very personal in order to not speak about things I really don't know anything about.

My most recent experiences have been very hard on me, but I do think I've come out of them with a clear conscience. It did cost me a lot though. In many respects my life is broken. But the experiential knowledge I've gained from being on the recieving end of some very bad treatment has me thinking that perhaps I have something to give. I don't seem like "very much" by any objective angle I can think of, but my experiences haven't ruined my love for God's word. And I believe that that's enough for God to work with, even yet.

My observation is a simple one, God's word is painfully honest about his peoples shortcomings, I think that is very easy to read but hard to handle when the faults belong to self, leadership, or anyone that is closer to me than words in a book.

I hope my first ever posting anywhere on anything isn't blatantly offensive to anyone, I'm really just looking for good fellowship.

dispite ALL the stuff that happeded in twi in a way its very small compared to the way iv ben treated by some of the companies iv worked for. until recently i worked as an electrical foreman. (i am a job supervisor now) construction work can be ruthless,employers wanting the cheapest labor and expecting we the foreman to micromanage. anyway the electrical foreman always catches hell. i know a few guys who will not work as foreman anymore, i decided to become stronger and am no longer affected by other peoples crap. you got to rise above that stuff. computers on the other hand are great!! look at all these neat websites we can visit. until 2 years ago my only experience was with the library computer buying something on ebay,or trying to find drums. then i bought a computer and with practice and surfing and trying different things i learned how to navigate the web. sometimes i spend several hours on the web looking up things. just keep surfing the web goin to different places looking up information ,etc. remember to to delete your browsing cookies. click on tools,click on internet options, click on delete cookies,cookies can slow your computer down. i also experemented with all my settings ,you can always return to factory settings,after a while a computer will become a breeze to operate. i built 3 computers one of which i am typing on right now.

[JeffSjo]

Hi Shiftthis,

I know what you mean when you talk about how nasty things can be in the real world. (so to speak) I think you may end up agreeing with me that a mean scumbag is one thing to deal with. But a mean scumbag who hides behind a multitude of bible verses, crowd control techniques, and hypocritical lying is an altogether WORSE kind of person to deal with.

As far as computers go, I'm looking forward to learning more, but at present I think it's fair to say that I'm at about a kindergarten od first grade level.

I hope that your posting hear on the Greasespot ends up being a good thing for you Shiftthis.

[jeast]

JeffSjo,

All the very best to you brother. I can relate to what you are going through and the only thing I would like for you to keep in mind is to not withdraw and to keep in mind that we will always be here for you. Not to judge but just to be your friend.

Sincerely,

Joe

[JeffSjo]

Thank you Joe.

I've enjoyed your posts.

[JeffSjo]

I'VE BEEN HERE AT THE GREASESPOT A YEAR NOW FOLKS.

I've just printed out all my posts and many of the threads that I've started.

I'm might be in my cave for a while as I consider where I've gone in the last year.

Bye for now.

PEACE

JEFF

[excathedra]

whether here or in your cave, jeff, you take care

you are a kind, wonderful soul

[JeffSjo]

Thank you Excathedra,

The same RIGHT BACK AT YOU!!!

[tagalong]

I am not only new to this site but am also very new to computers in general and am only muddling through even now. Such terms as "post","e-mail", & "chat room" are very challenging to me, especially as far as using these things. My net access may be limited to weekly or even less often so I'll give this a try. I am very thankful to be a PFAL grad, and I am thankful for Dr. Wierwille. My perspective is as a person who did not see the darker things that obviously went on perhaps farther inside the workings of the ministry than I ever saw.

A lot of what I learned in the classes has stood the test of time as far as I'm concerned. As far as the hard times go, speculating on what went on back then, for me, seems foolish and dangerous. However,I don't think any situation as it may relate to anyone I know, or get to know can't be dealt with. It just has to be very personal in order to not speak about things I really don't know anything about.

My most recent experiences have been very hard on me, but I do think I've come out of them with a clear conscience. It did cost me a lot though. In many respects my life is broken. But the experiential knowledge I've gained from being on the recieving end of some very bad treatment has me thinking that perhaps I have something to give. I don't seem like "very much" by any objective angle I can think of, but my experiences haven't ruined my love for God's word. And I believe that that's enough for God to work with, even yet.

My observation is a simple one, God's word is painfully honest about his peoples shortcomings, I think that is very easy to read but hard to handle when the faults belong to self, leadership, or anyone that is closer to me than words in a book.

I hope my first ever posting anywhere on anything isn't blatantly offensive to anyone, I'm really just looking for good fellowship.

Hi Jeff, I like your honesty. I am new to this as of now. Today is May28,2009. Please message me here or something, maybe add me as a friend. God Bless you.

[leafytwiglet]

Waves Jeff you sweet sweet Man,

just finally saw this thread.. yes I am slow to get through them all.. but I wanted to say how delighted I am that you are here and made your way back and hopefully have resolved $$$ issues as they do make things tuff.. I do enjoy your posts and am glad you are here!

[JeffSjo]

Thank you Leafy.

And I'm doing ok now, life goes on at least. :)