Yup – I bought the farm…Soon after leaving TWI I remember reading in some booklet on cults what the church could learn from cult followers – commitment. Well, maybe so but at the time I read that I was so angry and cynical over letting some counterfeit church gobble up 12 years of my life as I blindly bought into their priorities and agenda. I would revise that booklet to add commitment without wisdom is foolish.
I think of commitment as making a personal investment. I'm willing to invest a certain amount of time, energy and resources for something I believe in…even making some sacrifices when necessary – but call me selfish if you want to – I expect something in return. And it doesn't have to be anything material – it can be something as simple as getting a good feeling from helping someone…As you said – I see great joy in life again using wisdom in commitments.
When I bought the farm – I signed over a blank check [my LIFE] to TWI – I bought into a lopsided deal. TWI being a parasite, sucked the life out of me - - and in return would stroke my ego ["…you're so spiritual... you've really grown... you must really love God... what a sharp leader - we want you to run a twig/class/branch…"] and tell me I'd have oodles of rewards in heaven for supporting God's ministry.
Meanwhile, back at the farm... this question of sub-prime investment in time allotted option trading continues to be ignored by the those who probably have the most "to share"!
Those "traders" at the top, like the MC here or Raf, WW, the MODS, all those guys with 5* credit ratings! How high up the corporate ladder did you get before throwing in the proverbial towel?
So please, GUYS in TV room, don't be shy, come on out from behind the Grease Spot Gallery door and share with us HOW and WHY you bought into YEARS of TWI Cult Entertainment. Don't let the girls have all the fun!
Gee Bumpy ... aren't there like 1000 pages on that question already?
I'm guessing many were beguiled by some interesting twig leader that had lotsa answers and could expose myths taught in church. In my early years I think it was the feeling of being enlightened that led the way in.
As to staying with it ... there were times I was sorely disappointed that I was not reaching any new heights in the corps ... looking back probably "the best of times" were my years before the corps, when our little college group was doing its thing.
That led to the seven year "winter of my discontent." I'm not sure why I lingered so long, trying to make it all happen. You get to where you are committed and have an investment of time that you feel married to ... as you alluded to.
It is true that human nature somehow makes us protect the nest we build for ourselves. At the extreme is the Stockholm syndrome ... surely there are similarities in cults or abusive relationships or many aspects of life. Maybe those people that sell those $200 sneakers could give us some insight on how to build allegiance to a brand.
I think that we are humans has something to do with it ... as social animals, we build constructs that fulfill some inner craving for a society. When that is not fulfilled we seek out something else ... the caring little twig is the nurturing societal environment for some, which wards off the worldly evils ... ahhh, what bliss.
But how all the pressures of twi life build after that undershepherding phase ... still, that is part of the building of twi society for all the little worker bees ... but I'll leave it at that before I vaunt into yet another comparison of bees and queen bees ... that might give me hives. :o
Bill...for a Rhino that was a very interesting reply to which I think many former WC 'humans' can relate? On "the street" they would say, never fall in love with a stock. For sure, human nature, both good and bad, keeps organizations alive which would normally take a dive!
But here are a few points that might be interesting to cover...
* The "need to belong" (already referred to previously) How powerful was that as a motivator?
* Males wanting to achieve greater heights on the Cult Corporate Ladder (& the bodies that needed to be stepped over?)
* Females wanting their husbands to be one of those rising stars (& how far they would go to be "seen" at the right table?)
* The "ART" of manipulation in getting to the next level (& what little stories can we invent to get there?)
* The social cult structure, and the anticipation of change (& who was quickest out of the gate!)
Those are just a few for now, but what needs to be plowed up a little on the farm, are the GUYS who have the stories to fill in the holes. This I think is important for those anticipating entering a TWI cult or "splinter" experience. And as we all know... experience is the best teacher!!
Finally, if splinters like ces find this site of no use in expressing themselves, then maybe there has to be less antagonism here and more "substance"? <_< Just a thought. :)
Bumpy those answeres are way to cynical. I think most of us...at least the people I knew wanted to be their best for God. They had an honest desire to make the world a little better place. Twi comes along and says ..here it is...this is the best...this is what God needs...spiritually mature people to enter the battle. To do anything less...would to be letting God down.
There were a lot of us pure in our intentions, that naievely assumed that the ministry leaders were as earnest in theirs to serve God and minister to the body of Christ.
Most of us didn`t jnow untill the internet allowed open communication that we found out what creepy perverts the leaders were.
Rascal, God knows your character traits would never fit into the inner-workings of what put TWI on the map of a Cult Heartbreaker. I don't doubt that you and many others ever overdosed on certain "flavors" of Kool Aid being served up. But that's not the point.
The "POINT" is, illusions of POWER & MONEY & what certain types of people will do when tempted by "opportunities"! If you wanted to ARRIVE at a certain position on the Old Way Tree, you had to...BEND OVER!
In other words, sacrifice a little, all in the name of GAWD, Jesus and the Cause! That's a euphemism for how far individuals will go, to sacrifice whatever innocence they arrived with, until the point they left. What existed in between is the "Cult Experience"!
What I'm looking for is the psychology of the "players" who like Icarus flew too close to the sun yet have the courage to not only come forward, but to explain "the process". (It doesn't pertain to most at GS, who were just good little soldiers).
There are many in the audience who will choose to remain silent and find a way to justify their actions. Much like they did WAY back then...so long ago. <_<
TWI leadership are the keyplayers – heck, it’s their game – played by their rules! Whether they appealed to one person’s base motives or another person’s altruistic tendencies, TWI leadership always represented the organization as the facilitator –with their priorities, agenda, principles, teachings, practices, etc. being the means to satisfy your desire.
What I'm looking for is the psychology of the "players" who like Icarus flew too close to the sun yet have the courage to not only come forward, but to explain "the process". (It doesn't pertain to most at GS, who were just good little soldiers).
There are many in the audience who will choose to remain silent and find a way to justify their actions. Much like they did WAY back then...so long ago. <_<
If you could get them to Africa, maybe you could waterboard them and extract the info you desire ... I haven't noticed many mea culpas where people confess to intentional nastiness ... that is more one of the steps of AA I think.
The hard core "leaders" didn't give up, they just changed the name. They were given an opportunity to branch out on their own and collect money for themselves ... twi break up wasn't an end, it was a beginning ...
Of course there may be some honest people that started fellowships with the purest of motives ... I'd guess they are not asking for money for classes ... just my opinion.
What I'm looking for is the psychology of the "players" who like Icarus flew too close to the sun yet have the courage to not only come forward, but to explain "the process". (It doesn't pertain to most at GS, who were just good little soldiers).
There are many in the audience who will choose to remain silent and find a way to justify their actions. Much like they did WAY back then...so long ago. <_<
Well.......in my opinion, the *major players* have NO intention of explaining "the process".....but rather, have utilized twi's class and caste system as a prototype for their own splintering work. Of course, the corporate/business world has long had a beginning/intermediate/advanced step system........wierwille had to adapt when his pfal class was too much/too fast and held off on the intermediate material.
And, speaking of *major players*........I seriously doubt that you are going to find cgeer, or f1nnig@n, or lyynn, or t0wns3nd, or name-that-player to come on GS and explain the process of manipulation that lines their pockets. Of course, you could study cgeer's POP paper and see how he claimed top seat to wierwille's ear and dying testamony on "preserving da verd" for future generations. You might also gain some perspective of speaking in vague generalities, the use of intimidation and creating a mystique around the next torch-bearer.
And, for cgeer to move "the process" into a franchise system with fees and abs percentages from said areas flowing into his bank accounts...........now THAT is taking "the teacher" at his word and advancing upon it.
So, Bump......I just think you're barking up the wrong tree looking for this info here.
So, Bump......I just think you're barking up the wrong tree looking for this info here.
OK, but it was fun trying! I was just contemplating the "processing of the process" last night, and in the process turning a little soil in my brain.
But still, the question of what makes the RATIONALE of people's minds "turn" when the subject of "GOD" is brought into the equation, is interesting for reflection? Especially when analyzing human behavioral decision made within religious organizational structures.
However, maybe the farm "lab" has to be closed due to lack of interest, substance, information, ideas and contributors...oh well! :)
the motorcycles, Ambassador One, gallons of Drambiue...
That's for starters.
Labor on RFR's house, Corpse Chalet + offices, Moratorium, Gunnison + upgrades, Emporia, Indiana, Tinney, properties, 3 motorcoaches, 2 planes,
100s of automobiles, $25M in fixed assets, $25M in long-term investment assets. Free slave labor.
What did we get in return? According to IRS, "intangible services", and the joy of knowing that the ministry owes us nothing but we owe the ministry everything.
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T-Bone
Great thread, Polar Bear!
Yup – I bought the farm…Soon after leaving TWI I remember reading in some booklet on cults what the church could learn from cult followers – commitment. Well, maybe so but at the time I read that I was so angry and cynical over letting some counterfeit church gobble up 12 years of my life as I blindly bought into their priorities and agenda. I would revise that booklet to add commitment without wisdom is foolish.
I think of commitment as making a personal investment. I'm willing to invest a certain amount of time, energy and resources for something I believe in…even making some sacrifices when necessary – but call me selfish if you want to – I expect something in return. And it doesn't have to be anything material – it can be something as simple as getting a good feeling from helping someone…As you said – I see great joy in life again using wisdom in commitments.
When I bought the farm – I signed over a blank check [my LIFE] to TWI – I bought into a lopsided deal. TWI being a parasite, sucked the life out of me - - and in return would stroke my ego ["…you're so spiritual... you've really grown... you must really love God... what a sharp leader - we want you to run a twig/class/branch…"] and tell me I'd have oodles of rewards in heaven for supporting God's ministry.
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Bumpy
"Oh...give me a home, where the Buffalo roam..."
Meanwhile, back at the farm... this question of sub-prime investment in time allotted option trading continues to be ignored by the those who probably have the most "to share"!
Those "traders" at the top, like the MC here or Raf, WW, the MODS, all those guys with 5* credit ratings! How high up the corporate ladder did you get before throwing in the proverbial towel?
So please, GUYS in TV room, don't be shy, come on out from behind the Grease Spot Gallery door and share with us HOW and WHY you bought into YEARS of TWI Cult Entertainment. Don't let the girls have all the fun!
After all, hindsight is supposed to be 20/20! <_<
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rhino
Gee Bumpy ... aren't there like 1000 pages on that question already?
I'm guessing many were beguiled by some interesting twig leader that had lotsa answers and could expose myths taught in church. In my early years I think it was the feeling of being enlightened that led the way in.
As to staying with it ... there were times I was sorely disappointed that I was not reaching any new heights in the corps ... looking back probably "the best of times" were my years before the corps, when our little college group was doing its thing.
That led to the seven year "winter of my discontent." I'm not sure why I lingered so long, trying to make it all happen. You get to where you are committed and have an investment of time that you feel married to ... as you alluded to.
It is true that human nature somehow makes us protect the nest we build for ourselves. At the extreme is the Stockholm syndrome ... surely there are similarities in cults or abusive relationships or many aspects of life. Maybe those people that sell those $200 sneakers could give us some insight on how to build allegiance to a brand.
I think that we are humans has something to do with it ... as social animals, we build constructs that fulfill some inner craving for a society. When that is not fulfilled we seek out something else ... the caring little twig is the nurturing societal environment for some, which wards off the worldly evils ... ahhh, what bliss.
But how all the pressures of twi life build after that undershepherding phase ... still, that is part of the building of twi society for all the little worker bees ... but I'll leave it at that before I vaunt into yet another comparison of bees and queen bees ... that might give me hives. :o
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Bumpy
Bill...for a Rhino that was a very interesting reply to which I think many former WC 'humans' can relate? On "the street" they would say, never fall in love with a stock. For sure, human nature, both good and bad, keeps organizations alive which would normally take a dive!
But here are a few points that might be interesting to cover...
* The "need to belong" (already referred to previously) How powerful was that as a motivator?
* Males wanting to achieve greater heights on the Cult Corporate Ladder (& the bodies that needed to be stepped over?)
* Females wanting their husbands to be one of those rising stars (& how far they would go to be "seen" at the right table?)
* The "ART" of manipulation in getting to the next level (& what little stories can we invent to get there?)
* The social cult structure, and the anticipation of change (& who was quickest out of the gate!)
Those are just a few for now, but what needs to be plowed up a little on the farm, are the GUYS who have the stories to fill in the holes. This I think is important for those anticipating entering a TWI cult or "splinter" experience. And as we all know... experience is the best teacher!!
Finally, if splinters like ces find this site of no use in expressing themselves, then maybe there has to be less antagonism here and more "substance"? <_< Just a thought. :)
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rascal
Bumpy those answeres are way to cynical. I think most of us...at least the people I knew wanted to be their best for God. They had an honest desire to make the world a little better place. Twi comes along and says ..here it is...this is the best...this is what God needs...spiritually mature people to enter the battle. To do anything less...would to be letting God down.
There were a lot of us pure in our intentions, that naievely assumed that the ministry leaders were as earnest in theirs to serve God and minister to the body of Christ.
Most of us didn`t jnow untill the internet allowed open communication that we found out what creepy perverts the leaders were.
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Bumpy
Rascal, God knows your character traits would never fit into the inner-workings of what put TWI on the map of a Cult Heartbreaker. I don't doubt that you and many others ever overdosed on certain "flavors" of Kool Aid being served up. But that's not the point.
The "POINT" is, illusions of POWER & MONEY & what certain types of people will do when tempted by "opportunities"! If you wanted to ARRIVE at a certain position on the Old Way Tree, you had to...BEND OVER!
In other words, sacrifice a little, all in the name of GAWD, Jesus and the Cause! That's a euphemism for how far individuals will go, to sacrifice whatever innocence they arrived with, until the point they left. What existed in between is the "Cult Experience"!
What I'm looking for is the psychology of the "players" who like Icarus flew too close to the sun yet have the courage to not only come forward, but to explain "the process". (It doesn't pertain to most at GS, who were just good little soldiers).
There are many in the audience who will choose to remain silent and find a way to justify their actions. Much like they did WAY back then...so long ago. <_<
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T-Bone
TWI leadership are the key players – heck, it’s their game – played by their rules! Whether they appealed to one person’s base motives or another person’s altruistic tendencies, TWI leadership always represented the organization as the facilitator –with their priorities, agenda, principles, teachings, practices, etc. being the means to satisfy your desire.
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rhino
If you could get them to Africa, maybe you could waterboard them and extract the info you desire ... I haven't noticed many mea culpas where people confess to intentional nastiness ... that is more one of the steps of AA I think.
The hard core "leaders" didn't give up, they just changed the name. They were given an opportunity to branch out on their own and collect money for themselves ... twi break up wasn't an end, it was a beginning ...
Of course there may be some honest people that started fellowships with the purest of motives ... I'd guess they are not asking for money for classes ... just my opinion.
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skyrider
Well.......in my opinion, the *major players* have NO intention of explaining "the process".....but rather, have utilized twi's class and caste system as a prototype for their own splintering work. Of course, the corporate/business world has long had a beginning/intermediate/advanced step system........wierwille had to adapt when his pfal class was too much/too fast and held off on the intermediate material.
And, speaking of *major players*........I seriously doubt that you are going to find cgeer, or f1nnig@n, or lyynn, or t0wns3nd, or name-that-player to come on GS and explain the process of manipulation that lines their pockets. Of course, you could study cgeer's POP paper and see how he claimed top seat to wierwille's ear and dying testamony on "preserving da verd" for future generations. You might also gain some perspective of speaking in vague generalities, the use of intimidation and creating a mystique around the next torch-bearer.
And, for cgeer to move "the process" into a franchise system with fees and abs percentages from said areas flowing into his bank accounts...........now THAT is taking "the teacher" at his word and advancing upon it.
So, Bump......I just think you're barking up the wrong tree looking for this info here.
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Bumpy
OK, but it was fun trying! I was just contemplating the "processing of the process" last night, and in the process turning a little soil in my brain.
But still, the question of what makes the RATIONALE of people's minds "turn" when the subject of "GOD" is brought into the equation, is interesting for reflection? Especially when analyzing human behavioral decision made within religious organizational structures.
However, maybe the farm "lab" has to be closed due to lack of interest, substance, information, ideas and contributors...oh well! :)
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Tom Strange
I think we've all been thinking that for years!
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chockfull
Labor on RFR's house, Corpse Chalet + offices, Moratorium, Gunnison + upgrades, Emporia, Indiana, Tinney, properties, 3 motorcoaches, 2 planes,
100s of automobiles, $25M in fixed assets, $25M in long-term investment assets. Free slave labor.
What did we get in return? According to IRS, "intangible services", and the joy of knowing that the ministry owes us nothing but we owe the ministry everything.
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