I knew i was hook line and almost sinker, but I kept thinking something is gonna happen right around the corner that is better or life was gonna chnage on its own (revealing how naive I was,) but I really didn't understand the game (later to find out most of us Nubians weren't supposed to understand - just be scared.
PB, You are the master of your own ship!!Thank God..
I know I have come to a place where I feel I can date again...It's taken me 7 yrs total to get to this place after being engaged to 2 believer's (one 15th C) both ended very badly...
so I feel a sence of freedom that I dont have to limit myself anymore..
Angel-Love ya. French Canadian eh! Way to go. My wifey's French Canadian. Keep us informed on how it's going.
Yep I am really starting to live again. Setting new goals. I had almost given up on life. Could be a joy again? It takes time to clear the baggage left over from way daze.
Angel-Love ya. French Canadian eh! Way to go. My wifey's French Canadian. Keep us informed on how it's going.
Yep I am really starting to live again. Setting new goals. I had almost given up on life. Could be a joy again? It takes time to clear the baggage left over from way daze.
I'll bet the phrase has a historical root. Buying a farm would normally be a pleasant experience if you're into farming, (and why else would you buy one)-unless the seller was trying to deceive you about the value of the package (like it's built on a toxic landfill or something-hmmm).
I didn't buy the farm, but I bought a lot of produce from it- some of which was good, much of it made me sick.
I'm guessing that most of us at Greasespot never completely bought the farm, or we wouldn't be here... we'd probably still be "innies", refusing to acknowledge anything different.
But, like PB and others, I came VERY close to it... I turned my entire life over to them for twenty years, and I was mortally afraid and ashamed when I found myself disagreeing with their conclusions or directives. It took things getting so bad that I literally thought I would rather have God turn his back on me (and maybe die as a result) than live the way I was living any longer, before I could wrench myself out of their grip. I'd say that's being in pretty deep!!
I agree, though... the longer you are out, the more your own freedom becomes apparent to you. After seven years I barely spare a thought or snide remark about twi anymore (except when I visit here) and I no longer think finding a relationship would be impossible. It may never happen, and that's fine, but it's nice to know I'm not the one keeping the door closed anymore.
I'm guessing that most of us at Greasespot never completely bought the farm, or we wouldn't be here... we'd probably still be "innies", refusing to acknowledge anything different.
But, like PB and others, I came VERY close to it... I turned my entire life over to them for twenty years, and I was mortally afraid and ashamed when I found myself disagreeing with their conclusions or directives. It took things getting so bad that I literally thought I would rather have God turn his back on me (and maybe die as a result) than live the way I was living any longer, before I could wrench myself out of their grip. I'd say that's being in pretty deep!!
I agree, though... the longer you are out, the more your own freedom becomes apparent to you. After seven years I barely spare a thought or snide remark about twi anymore (except when I visit here) and I no longer think finding a relationship would be impossible. It may never happen, and that's fine, but it's nice to know I'm not the one keeping the door closed anymore.
I agree..There were some things we never totaly bought into.Once I realized that God WOULD NOt
turn his back on me I was outta there What a fear tatic..If twi was as great as it was supposed
to be they would not have needed that crap Well if it looks like a cult and certainly acts like one.....
I'm thinking it was more like swamp land than farm land.
But, yeah. I bought it all completely for about 10 years.
When I finally did drift away,after another 8 or 10 years, I felt like I was venturing out on thin ice, wondering when and if the ice would break underneath my feet.
"I felt like I was venturing out on thin ice, wondering when and if the ice would break underneath my feet. "
I get that the ice is holding ~ kinda like in "Arthur", when the Saxons are marching across the ice after them, and they all recognized the dangers, the possibilities. To move forward took courage; to go back and crack the ice before the enemy could advance took courage.
I'll bet the phrase has a historical root. Buying a farm would normally be a pleasant experience if you're into farming, (and why else would you buy one)-unless the seller was trying to deceive you about the value of the package (like it's built on a toxic landfill or something-hmmm).
I didn't buy the farm, but I bought a lot of produce from it- some of which was good, much of it made me sick.
~Cinder
The phrase "bought the farm" and "became a landowner" were World War I slang for
Possibly as #1 in that links explanation, having "crashed" and burned upon leaving TWI, a person went their way to pursue their lives after leaving...?
#2, probably wouldn't apply at all, unless you got some kind of pay out.
Since the term can include the idea of terminating a mission in the worst possible way, it's a little dicey to use it although it gets used a lot.
It's an interesting turn of phrase in this context but one I'd probably avoid although I guess it could fit for some. It definitely evokes thought.
I'm guessing that most of us at Greasespot never completely bought the farm, or we wouldn't be here... we'd probably still be "innies", refusing to acknowledge anything different.
Well, I am ashamed to say that I bought it all entirely hook line and sinker. I got involved at 17 and believed there was nothing else. They would have had to throw me out, and that probably would have killed me.
I believed the teachings enough that when my husband refused active participation...I had to follow and obey him. I hated him for not supporting the ministry. I cried, begged and prayed that he would come back and fight for it. I was so ashamed with his lack of spirituality.
Fortunately this was in the days before the ministry counceled people to get divorced if the spouse was unbelieving, or I have no doubt that I would have left him. As it was, I thought God required me to follow his orders no matter how detrimental.
For me, I believed it all, that if I left, we would die. It was several years before I was able to stop feeling the dread...waiting for the other shoe to drop.
It was horrible because I was out in the world alone with worldly people who were just so far beneith me spiritually.....sigh
I never really believed the ministry was very messed up, just that lcm could be a tad focused in one area and not always seeing the bigger picture,...butI STILL believed that he was the man appointed by God and it was my responsibility to support him no matter what.
Yeah, I bought the farm lock stck and barrel....my husband dragged me crying and protesting out of that grave.
Angel-Love ya. French Canadian eh! Way to go. My wifey's French Canadian. Keep us informed on how it's going.
Yep I am really starting to live again. Setting new goals. I had almost given up on life. Could be a joy again? It takes time to clear the baggage left over from way daze.
I know what you mean about the baggage... while I was in TWI I was pretty intolerant of the thoughts/ideas of my own family (parents & sibs) that was not in... as I grew further away from TWI and their ideas about things I found myself being nicer to (and more tolerant of) what their perspectives and feelings were towards things concerning life and death... that maybe I didn't really "know it all"... know what I mean? Have you (or anyone else) found this to be true? I know that when I left TWI there were so many things that had become subtly ingrained in my subconscience and I wasn't even aware of it... it takes a while to weed all of these things out... at least it did for me...
I guess I'm trying to say it took me a while to get over the "I-gotta-be-right-us"... you know, that ingrained thought pattern (from TWI) that I was right and "they" were wrong? When all along I was right on some things, wrong on others and sometimes it didn't even matter but I was too blind to see that...
It's not always about "being right"... heck, a lot of times it's about "being loving" (and to he11 with being right)...
...just reading thru this, and wondering HOW the twi STRUCTURE of the "purchase" of the farm mentality really came into your individual commitment? The purchase being, all of you selling out yourselves to sacrifice, what...free will, logic, time (youth) finances,etc.??
Difficult for me, after getting "to know" a few of you vis a vis your posts, how this could happen?
Most of you seem so strong in your opinions here that the question of HOW the twi STRUCTURE was able to convince you to BUY INTO...the COMMITMENT of the ORGANIZATION baffles me.
I think what I'm looking for is, where did THEIR ORGANIZATIONAL POWER & YOUR DECISION MAKING ("buy")CONVERGE?
The condemned soldier on the losing side says he was just "following orders". What caused people here to spend 10-20 YEARS+ to a system which today appears to be so evil?
The condemned soldier on the losing side says he was just "following orders". What caused people here to spend 10-20 YEARS+ to a system which today appears to be so evil?
Hope no one minds the intrusion? :)
Hi there, Bumpy
I don't mind the intrusion.
I think that you have raised a valid point.
There are people who don't believe that our thinking and behavior was controlled.
Perhaps some can't understand the reality of that because their thinking and behavior wasn't. (controlled)
Perhaps some others can't understand because they are really still being influenced by this thought control.
I don't know.
Our conditioning began as early as session #7 of the PLAF class.
(Ironic that the number 7 supposedly has a Biblical significance of perfection.)
Eve considered what the serpent said and responded to him.(Engaged in a discourse)
Thus the seeds of thought were planted in us that to consider or reply to doubts we had was somehow parallel to the downfall of Eve.
ie: Never allow yourself to consider that there might be something wrong with what you are being taught or the manner in which you are expected to behave.
That will be your downfall just as it was for Eve.
If you do, in fact, have doubts, you must force your mind to disregard them.(TWI version of Renewed Mind.)
It's a form of self delusion.
When outsiders would suggest to me that I was self deluded, I could actually convince myself that I WASN'T being self deluded. That's like "self deluded-squared".
I think you can see both varieties of people who don't understand that concept here.
The ones who are still being influenced by that doctrine are the ones who are most likely to cover their eyes and ears,
kind of like the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" line of thinking.
I think the farther removed one became from their local level, the more intense this conditioning became.
Take that a step even further and put people into a communal living situation and the effects become much more intensified.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense but that's my take on it.
I was taught that God honored our obediance to our leader. That of we obeyed the leader that God would bless and prosper us right or wrong because of our heart.
The example was given of Jesus telling Peter to walk on the water...as long as peter obeyed, as long as he didn`t look at the five senses...he was a walking on water miracle. As soon as he looked at the circumstances, doubted his leader...he sank like a rock.
Did we want to live miracles or sink like rocks?
That was the foundation laid for implicit obediance.
A wow died that was in our class, it was because Satan was looking to take us out at any hour....it only took leaving the spiritual trap door open, and we would die as well.
God`s umbrella of protection stayed over us only as long as we were actively involved in his ministry :(
Any thought of leaving was Satan tricking us away from the word....
I was led to understand that were I to leave twi, that I would die sopiritually, to be followed no doubt by my physical death...I trusted these guys because they taught me the scriptures....it never dawned on me that they didn`t have God`s/our best interests at heart.
My feeling is that all (that's "all" w/o exception!) here at the Spot, have a personal "story" to relate regarding their "logic", as to WHY they would INVEST so heavily (so many years) into the WAY.ORG FARM buyout.
Maybe some wish to forget, maybe some wish to remain lurking, maybe some are just hiding their past. But for sure some of the guys playing in the "reading room" or the pool hall, have some STORIES to tell regarding the ol' FARM!
It seems to me, the women here are the ones who have more honest or direct comments to make regarding how things in the cult "dormitories" played out?
Whatever the thread, it's the "girls" who seem more interested in scratching the surface and taking emotional chances by talking about what happened?
We all here w/o exception went thru the class many times. That was just "lift off". TWI or Way Corps commitment however involved selling yourself out to the CAUSE, the MOD'S, to Big Bro himself.
There's a lot of male testosterone put out on this site which must have had a hard time keeping quiet when faces were melting!
My feeling is that all (that's "all" w/o exception!) here at the Spot, have a personal "story" to relate regarding their "logic", as to WHY they would INVEST so heavily (so many years) into the WAY.ORG FARM buyout.
Maybe some wish to forget, maybe some wish to remain lurking, maybe some are just hiding their past. But for sure some of the guys playing in the "reading room" or the pool hall, have some STORIES to tell regarding the ol' FARM!
It seems to me, the women here are the ones who have more honest or direct comments to make regarding how things in the cult "dormitories" played out?
Whatever the thread, it's the "girls" who seem more interested in scratching the surface and taking emotional chances by talking about what happened?
We all here w/o exception went thru the class many times. That was just "lift off". TWI or Way Corps commitment however involved selling yourself out to the CAUSE, the MOD'S, to Big Bro himself.
There's a lot of male testosterone put out on this site which must have had a hard time keeping quiet when faces were melting!
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washn'wear
I knew i was hook line and almost sinker, but I kept thinking something is gonna happen right around the corner that is better or life was gonna chnage on its own (revealing how naive I was,) but I really didn't understand the game (later to find out most of us Nubians weren't supposed to understand - just be scared.
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likeaneagle
PB, You are the master of your own ship!!Thank God..
I know I have come to a place where I feel I can date again...It's taken me 7 yrs total to get to this place after being engaged to 2 believer's (one 15th C) both ended very badly...
so I feel a sence of freedom that I dont have to limit myself anymore..
I have a date with a Frenchman (Canadian)....:)
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potato
I feel ya, brother p-bear.
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polar bear
Angel-Love ya. French Canadian eh! Way to go. My wifey's French Canadian. Keep us informed on how it's going.
Yep I am really starting to live again. Setting new goals. I had almost given up on life. Could be a joy again? It takes time to clear the baggage left over from way daze.
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likeaneagle
Here
is to a New Year!! Why start in Janurary..
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cinderpelt
I'll bet the phrase has a historical root. Buying a farm would normally be a pleasant experience if you're into farming, (and why else would you buy one)-unless the seller was trying to deceive you about the value of the package (like it's built on a toxic landfill or something-hmmm).
I didn't buy the farm, but I bought a lot of produce from it- some of which was good, much of it made me sick.
~Cinder
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TheHighWay
I'm guessing that most of us at Greasespot never completely bought the farm, or we wouldn't be here... we'd probably still be "innies", refusing to acknowledge anything different.
But, like PB and others, I came VERY close to it... I turned my entire life over to them for twenty years, and I was mortally afraid and ashamed when I found myself disagreeing with their conclusions or directives. It took things getting so bad that I literally thought I would rather have God turn his back on me (and maybe die as a result) than live the way I was living any longer, before I could wrench myself out of their grip. I'd say that's being in pretty deep!!
I agree, though... the longer you are out, the more your own freedom becomes apparent to you. After seven years I barely spare a thought or snide remark about twi anymore (except when I visit here) and I no longer think finding a relationship would be impossible. It may never happen, and that's fine, but it's nice to know I'm not the one keeping the door closed anymore.
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frank123lol
I agree..There were some things we never totaly bought into.Once I realized that God WOULD NOt
turn his back on me I was outta there What a fear tatic..If twi was as great as it was supposed
to be they would not have needed that crap Well if it looks like a cult and certainly acts like one.....
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waysider
Hmmmmmmm!
I'm thinking it was more like swamp land than farm land.
But, yeah. I bought it all completely for about 10 years.
When I finally did drift away,after another 8 or 10 years, I felt like I was venturing out on thin ice, wondering when and if the ice would break underneath my feet.
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cinderpelt
"Well if it looks like a cult and certainly acts like one..... "
It's probably a "QUACK!"
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cinderpelt
Waysider~ to quote you:
"I felt like I was venturing out on thin ice, wondering when and if the ice would break underneath my feet. "
I get that the ice is holding ~ kinda like in "Arthur", when the Saxons are marching across the ice after them, and they all recognized the dangers, the possibilities. To move forward took courage; to go back and crack the ice before the enemy could advance took courage.
Just my thoughts~
Cinder
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WordWolf
The phrase "bought the farm" and "became a landowner" were World War I slang for
"he inhabited a cemetary plot".
http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases.farm.asp
In the context of twi,
our tithes and ABS paid for the farms,
so you could say we ALL bought the farm.
We just didn't get a receipt.
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socks
Couple interpretations.
I've heard both of these over the years.
Possibly as #1 in that links explanation, having "crashed" and burned upon leaving TWI, a person went their way to pursue their lives after leaving...?
#2, probably wouldn't apply at all, unless you got some kind of pay out.
Since the term can include the idea of terminating a mission in the worst possible way, it's a little dicey to use it although it gets used a lot.
It's an interesting turn of phrase in this context but one I'd probably avoid although I guess it could fit for some. It definitely evokes thought.
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rascal
Well, I am ashamed to say that I bought it all entirely hook line and sinker. I got involved at 17 and believed there was nothing else. They would have had to throw me out, and that probably would have killed me.
I believed the teachings enough that when my husband refused active participation...I had to follow and obey him. I hated him for not supporting the ministry. I cried, begged and prayed that he would come back and fight for it. I was so ashamed with his lack of spirituality.
Fortunately this was in the days before the ministry counceled people to get divorced if the spouse was unbelieving, or I have no doubt that I would have left him. As it was, I thought God required me to follow his orders no matter how detrimental.
For me, I believed it all, that if I left, we would die. It was several years before I was able to stop feeling the dread...waiting for the other shoe to drop.
It was horrible because I was out in the world alone with worldly people who were just so far beneith me spiritually.....sigh
I never really believed the ministry was very messed up, just that lcm could be a tad focused in one area and not always seeing the bigger picture,...butI STILL believed that he was the man appointed by God and it was my responsibility to support him no matter what.
Yeah, I bought the farm lock stck and barrel....my husband dragged me crying and protesting out of that grave.
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Tom Strange
I know what you mean about the baggage... while I was in TWI I was pretty intolerant of the thoughts/ideas of my own family (parents & sibs) that was not in... as I grew further away from TWI and their ideas about things I found myself being nicer to (and more tolerant of) what their perspectives and feelings were towards things concerning life and death... that maybe I didn't really "know it all"... know what I mean? Have you (or anyone else) found this to be true? I know that when I left TWI there were so many things that had become subtly ingrained in my subconscience and I wasn't even aware of it... it takes a while to weed all of these things out... at least it did for me...
I guess I'm trying to say it took me a while to get over the "I-gotta-be-right-us"... you know, that ingrained thought pattern (from TWI) that I was right and "they" were wrong? When all along I was right on some things, wrong on others and sometimes it didn't even matter but I was too blind to see that...
It's not always about "being right"... heck, a lot of times it's about "being loving" (and to he11 with being right)...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
You mean the property on Highway 29 and Wierdsville-Poop Road?
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excathedra
why yes, i believe i helped p.bear, with my abundant sharing....
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Tom Strange
the farm was for sale?
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doojable
Not the farm, but we all helped pay for...
the motorcycles, Ambassador One, gallons of Drambiue...
That's for starters.
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WordWolf
I believe we all did- we paid for its upkeep, maintenance, equipment, etc.
not to mention all the people who worked there for free-
no, wait-they PAID to work there!
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Bumpy
...just reading thru this, and wondering HOW the twi STRUCTURE of the "purchase" of the farm mentality really came into your individual commitment? The purchase being, all of you selling out yourselves to sacrifice, what...free will, logic, time (youth) finances,etc.??
Difficult for me, after getting "to know" a few of you vis a vis your posts, how this could happen?
Most of you seem so strong in your opinions here that the question of HOW the twi STRUCTURE was able to convince you to BUY INTO...the COMMITMENT of the ORGANIZATION baffles me.
I think what I'm looking for is, where did THEIR ORGANIZATIONAL POWER & YOUR DECISION MAKING ("buy")CONVERGE?
The condemned soldier on the losing side says he was just "following orders". What caused people here to spend 10-20 YEARS+ to a system which today appears to be so evil?
Hope no one minds the intrusion? :)
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waysider
Hi there, Bumpy
I don't mind the intrusion.
I think that you have raised a valid point.
There are people who don't believe that our thinking and behavior was controlled.
Perhaps some can't understand the reality of that because their thinking and behavior wasn't. (controlled)
Perhaps some others can't understand because they are really still being influenced by this thought control.
I don't know.
Our conditioning began as early as session #7 of the PLAF class.
(Ironic that the number 7 supposedly has a Biblical significance of perfection.)
Eve considered what the serpent said and responded to him.(Engaged in a discourse)
Thus the seeds of thought were planted in us that to consider or reply to doubts we had was somehow parallel to the downfall of Eve.
ie: Never allow yourself to consider that there might be something wrong with what you are being taught or the manner in which you are expected to behave.
That will be your downfall just as it was for Eve.
If you do, in fact, have doubts, you must force your mind to disregard them.(TWI version of Renewed Mind.)
It's a form of self delusion.
When outsiders would suggest to me that I was self deluded, I could actually convince myself that I WASN'T being self deluded. That's like "self deluded-squared".
I think you can see both varieties of people who don't understand that concept here.
The ones who are still being influenced by that doctrine are the ones who are most likely to cover their eyes and ears,
kind of like the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" line of thinking.
I think the farther removed one became from their local level, the more intense this conditioning became.
Take that a step even further and put people into a communal living situation and the effects become much more intensified.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense but that's my take on it.
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rascal
I was taught that God honored our obediance to our leader. That of we obeyed the leader that God would bless and prosper us right or wrong because of our heart.
The example was given of Jesus telling Peter to walk on the water...as long as peter obeyed, as long as he didn`t look at the five senses...he was a walking on water miracle. As soon as he looked at the circumstances, doubted his leader...he sank like a rock.
Did we want to live miracles or sink like rocks?
That was the foundation laid for implicit obediance.
A wow died that was in our class, it was because Satan was looking to take us out at any hour....it only took leaving the spiritual trap door open, and we would die as well.
God`s umbrella of protection stayed over us only as long as we were actively involved in his ministry :(
Any thought of leaving was Satan tricking us away from the word....
I was led to understand that were I to leave twi, that I would die sopiritually, to be followed no doubt by my physical death...I trusted these guys because they taught me the scriptures....it never dawned on me that they didn`t have God`s/our best interests at heart.
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Bumpy
My feeling is that all (that's "all" w/o exception!) here at the Spot, have a personal "story" to relate regarding their "logic", as to WHY they would INVEST so heavily (so many years) into the WAY.ORG FARM buyout.
Maybe some wish to forget, maybe some wish to remain lurking, maybe some are just hiding their past. But for sure some of the guys playing in the "reading room" or the pool hall, have some STORIES to tell regarding the ol' FARM!
It seems to me, the women here are the ones who have more honest or direct comments to make regarding how things in the cult "dormitories" played out?
Whatever the thread, it's the "girls" who seem more interested in scratching the surface and taking emotional chances by talking about what happened?
We all here w/o exception went thru the class many times. That was just "lift off". TWI or Way Corps commitment however involved selling yourself out to the CAUSE, the MOD'S, to Big Bro himself.
There's a lot of male testosterone put out on this site which must have had a hard time keeping quiet when faces were melting!
My feeling is that all (that's "all" w/o exception!) here at the Spot, have a personal "story" to relate regarding their "logic", as to WHY they would INVEST so heavily (so many years) into the WAY.ORG FARM buyout.
Maybe some wish to forget, maybe some wish to remain lurking, maybe some are just hiding their past. But for sure some of the guys playing in the "reading room" or the pool hall, have some STORIES to tell regarding the ol' FARM!
It seems to me, the women here are the ones who have more honest or direct comments to make regarding how things in the cult "dormitories" played out?
Whatever the thread, it's the "girls" who seem more interested in scratching the surface and taking emotional chances by talking about what happened?
We all here w/o exception went thru the class many times. That was just "lift off". TWI or Way Corps commitment however involved selling yourself out to the CAUSE, the MOD'S, to Big Bro himself.
There's a lot of male testosterone put out on this site which must have had a hard time keeping quiet when faces were melting!
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