Who is John Lynn?

[Belle]

Can't you just feel the ego?

This is a letter (position paper) from John Lynn.

Posted with permission.

Cover letter:

Dear Brethren.

God bless you in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am sending this email, with its attachment, to only a relatively few people at this time, each of whom I consider a committed stakeholder in our unique ministry.

It is going to the Spirit & Truth Fellowship Board of Directors, the STF Staff, and others who have inquired of me, or who I have spoken with, or who I think should now be aware of what has been going on for the past 7 months in STF.

I realize that as you read it, you may want to know if you have my permission to send it on to other people you think should be informed about this matter, and the answer is yes. I trust that you will seek the Lord's guidance about that.

our unique ministry? How, exactly, is it unique?

As you read his letter, think about this.

The letter was written by a man who couldn't be honest enough to say he was divorcing his wife because the marriage was a mistake. Or because it simply wasn't working out. Or even because she was a raving b**tch.

He had to justify it by couching it in "godliness", via some very destructive and hurtful "prophesies". He couldn't just walk away and leave her, he had to completely demoralize her first. Or at the very least, he supported those who did.

In my mind, that makes anything he couches in the name of god questionable.

This links to the quote below

This is a letter (position paper) from John Lynn.

Posted with permission.

Cover letter:

Dear Brethren.

God bless you in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am sending this email, with its attachment, to only a relatively few people at this time, each of whom I consider a committed stakeholder in our unique ministry.

It is going to the Spirit & Truth Fellowship Board of Directors, the STF Staff, and others who have inquired of me, or who I have spoken with, or who I think should now be aware of what has been going on for the past 7 months in STF.

I realize that as you read it, you may want to know if you have my permission to send it on to other people you think should be informed about this matter, and the answer is yes. I trust that you will seek the Lord's guidance about that.

Thank you for your love and prayers.

In his service,

John Lynn

From: John A. Lynn

December 26, 2006

To Whom It May Concern:

As I begin this letter, my heart is weeping about the current state of affairs among the members of the Spirit and Truth Fellowship International Board of Directors, each of whom is one of my closest friends. What you will read is my best assessment of many conversations with the principals involved and/or reading more than 100 pages of their own words in correspondence back and forth among them.

My fervent prayer is that in a godly way I will bring into the light, and express my perspective of, this heart-rending situation. I pray also that God will preserve this unique ministry and dynamically increase its influence, which for 20 years now has been overwhelmingly positive for people all around the world. What I say herein is what might be called “small ‘t’ truth,” that is, what is true for me as I perceive this situation, about which my conscience compels me to speak out.

Where is your conscience now, John?

If, as things play out, I find that I am wrong in my viewpoint, I will gladly account and repent.

Since late September (when I first heard of this situation), in accordance with scriptures like Proverbs 18:13 and 17; 25:8, I have been listening to and/or reading the words of everyone on the Board as well as most of those on staff, especially those directly involved in what has transpired. I have taken notes, pondered and prayed, and have now come to the place that I am completely convinced about what I will share in this letter.

I am assuming that many believers who read this are either very good friends of mine or people who know quite a bit about me and my involvement in this wonderful ministry, for which I was the original “point man” from its inception in 1987 until June, 2000, when my dear brother Mark Graeser succeeded me as president. I say that in order to give you some idea of how excruciating it is for me to see what is now going on, and how it is even more painful to write what I am compelled by my conscience and by my great love for each person I mention to write. If you are in pain, or incredulous, as you read, I completely understand how you feel, for I feel the same way.

It was about September 21 when I was first informed that there was a division among the members of the STF Board of Directors (and spouses), with Mark and Karen Anne Graeser and Tom and Susan Resner having a disagreement with John and Jenivee Schoenheit, Gary and Karen Theisen, and Dan and Lori Gallagher. I initially heard that the main point of contention was that four of the other five Board members (John, Gary, Karen, and Dan) had asked Mark to step down from his presidential responsibilities for six months, move his office to his home, and, while still being paid the same salary, work on some very serious personal matters that, in their opinion, had, and still were, greatly hampering his ability to perform the required duties of president. He was asked to focus on writing the administrations book and the clergy ordination education curriculum. Mark declined to step down, however, and Tom stood with him in that decision.

I know all ten of these people very well, and though it was immediately obvious that either four (Graesers, Resners) or six (Schoenheits, Theisens, Gallaghers) of them are now “off track” to some degree, it was very hard for me to believe that it could have come to this. Each is a mature, committed Christian with an excellent track record of service to God’s people. And yet I know that no matter how far one has walked with God, our very personal adversary knows exactly how to work on our weaknesses, and our spiritual equilibrium is only as good as our renewed mind faith today.

Gee, John, he sure does, doesn't he? What are you doing about it??

As I began to listen to most of those involved, I carefully noted two things: (1) who did I feel was trying to persuade me or enroll me in their perspective, and (2) who spoke with what I perceived as any personal animosity or bitterness or innuendo about someone in the opposing camp. As I read many pertinent documents such as Dan’s letter of late September to Mark asking him specific questions pertinent to the situation, Mark’s reply to Dan firing him as CEO, Dan’s reply to Mark, Mark’s reply to that letter, Tom’s letter to the rest of the Board, etc., etc., I noted what I thought was godly, gracious, factual, and Word-based as compared to what I thought was personally attacking, acerbic, condescending, short on facts, and without biblical basis.

For me, I never experienced the Schoenheits, Gallaghers, or Theisens trying to enroll me on their side, but I did with Mark. Nor did I hear anything from the former three couples but sadness and heartbreak about what they perceived as Mark and Karen Anne’s emotional instability, and a passion to restore them to wholeness and ministry work. But from Mark (and from Tom in his letter to the Board), I did experience a significant amount of personal innuendo.

1 Timothy 5:19 (NIV) says: “Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.” As I do my best to summarily chronicle why I have arrived at the perspective I have, space and prudence compel me to omit many incidents and details about how Mark and Karen Anne have showed up since last April, which I have heard corroborated by 12 credible, firsthand witnesses who I personally know to be faithful believers.As the reality of the situation became clear to me, I have prayed fervently that Mark and Karen Anne would wake up and humbly submit to the “multitude of counselors” lovingly imploring them to do so. That way there would likely be no more division, and none of God’s precious people would be forced to choose sides. Instead, they have entrenched themselves more and more deeply into their mindset, and have done all they can to substantiate it. Thus, I have made the decision to send out this letter.

Gee, John, what are YOU doing to repair the division and heal hearts??

For years there has been a fairly widespread perception among quite a few people involved with STF that Karen Anne has been exerting an undue and negative influence on Mark, and others. Some have felt she is “running the ministry” via her prophecies, Many times I have vehemently (and, I firmly believe, rightly) defended her. Having been integrally involved in every major ministry decision from 1987-2000 and somewhat involved in many others from 2000-2005, I know that she has not “run the ministry.” That being said, I have of late been surprised to learn that the perception of her negative influence is far more pervasive than I realized, and, having been made aware of numerous incidents in which she has exerted undue and harmful influence, I no longer believe that this perception is groundless.

In my opinion, a key factor in all of this is that while God wants to make our weaknesses into strengths, the enemy wants to make our strengths into weaknesses. Karen Anne Graeser has often spoken prophetically into my life and been right on the money, to my great benefit. And I have seen her do the same things for scores of other saints, as they too would testify. In that sense, her voice has been a strength. But I honestly believe that, in large part, it has now become a weakness, as many will testify that she has been meddling in things she shouldn’t, inordinately influencing Mark, relentlessly pushing her own agendas, and sowing seeds of division among the brethren. I believe that is coming out of her deep woundedness, and, given the depth of my love for her, my sadness for her is inexpressible.

In that vein, I should say that I have heard that there are many prophetic words about this situation that have come in from various people during the past seven months, one group of which is obviously false, or at least off track, because they are pretty much the opposite of the words in the other group. I will say that it seems to me that the Graesers and Resners appear to be relying much more heavily than are the others on the words that support their position. I think, however, that we can make a rational judgment from looking at the facts of the matter. As the Word says, “by their fruits you shall know them.” And by the consistent testimony of about a dozen witnesses, and in my own opinion based upon Mark and Karen Anne’s written words, the fruit in their lives has badly deteriorated in the past seven months.

Gee, John, who does that sound like??

During that time, several faithful and competent STF staff members have been adversely affected by the Graesers, the first being Jeff Blackburn, who for six years has been an invaluable asset to STF in many ways, not the least of which are his awesome administrative ability and his heart for God’s people. Does he have shortcomings? Of course, but from where I stand, it seems he was set up by Karen Anne and Mark, and, in retrospect, that is how Jeff feels. There are many details as to how it unfolded, but at the bottom line, as I see it, Jeff would not countenance Karen Anne’s inappropriate involvement in certain ministry affairs, and Mark, under pressure from Karen Anne, put pressure on him to resign, which he did, when it was not what he really wanted to do. Jeff finally asked Mark if he thought it was best for him to resign, and Mark said yes, so Jeff did. According to Dan Gallagher, the STF CEO at that time, Mark had agreed with him to take the matter to the whole Board, but instead went ahead and personally dealt with Jeff anyway.

As the CEO, Dan did not like how Jeff was handled, and told that to Mark, citing the need for due process of any grievances, etc. Shortly thereafter, following a series of events surrounding their disagreement on this matter, Dan wrote Mark, asking him to answer a number of pertinent and vital questions. Mark responded to that on October 24 with a five-page letter to Dan in which he fired him as the STF CEO. After critically and objectively reading it, I would describe it as: authentic (that is, showing the true posture of Mark’s heart), generally factless, condescending, unkind, adamantly accusing, almost paranoid, and, in biblical terms, someone with a beam in his eye trying to point out a splinter in another’s eye.

Gee, John, who does that sound like??

I then pored over Dan’s October 30 six-page reply and found it to be: gracious, loving, filled with facts and specifics, honest, imploring, and pleading for Mark to specify anything Dan had done wrong other than disagree with him and Karen Anne. I believe that had Mark received it with meekness, it could have been even soothing to him as he recognized Dan validating his love and support for him. I also read Mark’s lengthy rebuttal of what Dan wrote to him, and though it contained many more factual statements than his first letter, I was not convinced that his take on them was accurate. Nor did he specifically answer all the questions Dan had originally asked him.

Gee, John, who does that sound like??

I then read Tom’s October 29 letter addressed to the Board, in which he set forth a number of alleged prophetic words from the Lord that were very derogatory to John and Jenivee, Dan, and Gary and Karen T., and which did not line up with the facts as I see them. I could write a lot about it, but suffice it to say that I was very disappointed by its immediate declaration that what would follow was what “the Lord spoke” to Tom, its dearth of facts, its caustic and accusatory verbiage, its feeling of imposing guilt, and its inordinate allegiance to the Graesers. Honestly, there were a few statements so outlandish that I never would have attributed them to my longtime friend Tom Resner had they not had his name on them.

About mid-October, Rachel Collum Darr told me that Mark had fired her that morning. Mark had given me his version of the incident, but when I later asked Rachel to lay out the whole thing for me, I was very saddened to see how Karen Anne had factored in (even as she had with Jeff B.) by her insistence for several months that Rachel be fired, based upon her perspective of how Rachel had shown up at the Women’s Conference in April. I read the “History of Rachel Collum Darr’s Employment at STF” and also Dan and Lori Gallagher’s additions and corrections to that document (Lori factored in via her direct involvement in Rachel’s situation at the Women’s Conference). I was surprised to see how many key facts the original report contained that the Gallaghers then said were either not true or somewhat distorted.

Very shortly after Rachel’s firing, Matthew Johnson, another loyal employee for six years, resigned after Karen Anne came to an office staff meeting and spoke for about 30 minutes about never having wanted Rachel to be fired. Matthew found this so dishonest that, as a matter of conscience, he decided he could not stay in the office for the remainder of his two-weeks-notice, and told Mark the next day that it would be his last. Knowing Matthew as I do, I called him and asked him to share his heart with me, which he did. Once again I heard a sad account of frustration with what he perceived as dishonesty on the part of Mark and Karen Anne in dealing with both Jeff and Rachel, as well as their handling of a pivotal staff meeting which Matthew felt was primarily an attempt by the Graesers to get testimony about how Jeff had hurt other staff members and thereby justify their position that he should resign.

Bob Maffit has been a dear friend of mine for more than 30 years, and in recent years has been an invaluable asset to the STF staff, a “full time volunteer,” if you will. He has worked very closely with Mark, and, in an attempt to get all the information I could, I sought his perspective. Bob’s burning love for Mark was evident as he sadly recounted to me numerous incidents in recent months where, in his view, Mark showed up as incapacitated, dishonest, distorting reality, enrolling Bob against Dan and John, speaking evil of others, and asking Bob to give him information about what he (Mark) perceived as others’ disloyalty to him. Bob shared that he has often confronted Mark during these past months and, while generally experiencing him to listen, he has seen no positive change.

I have pages and pages of notes from my conversations with many of the principals in this situation, and they are replete with incidents corroborating the emotional instability and resulting behavior of Mark and Karen Anne since last Spring, their great distrust of those who love them and are fighting for them, their distorting of many pertinent facts and conversations, and Mark’s refusal to accept the recommendation of four of his five peers on the Board.

The annual STF Board of Directors meeting will be held the third week of January, at which time the annual election of officers will be held. Given the current state of affairs, there is little question that a new president will be elected. I pray that Mark and Karen Anne (and Tom and Susan) will not then leave STF and try to take others with them (I do not know to what extent they or others close to them have already tried to enroll STF people around the country). If they will see the light and change their attitudes, I know that all who love them will come around them and do everything we can to support their healing and restoration.

That's what it's all about, isn't it, John? Saving the cash cow? Keeping that money rolling in?

edited to break into chunks the entire letter can be found without my comments on the link at the top of my post. The rest of the letter follows in my next two posts.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Belle

[Ham]

Who is John Lynn? I'm beginning to think that he really doesn't want us to really know.

[Belle]

Although Mark and Karen Anne have made it clear that they believe the Schoenheits, Theisens, and Gallaghers have been collaborating against them, and that Jeff Blackburn, Rachel Collum Darr, Matthew Johnson, and Bob Maffit are equally in error in their perspectives of what has been going on, particularly in the STF office, that is not how I see it. Rather, I perceive a lengthy litany of incidents during the past seven months that plainly involve the Graesers desperately posturing and maneuvering, distorting the facts, manipulating people, name calling/attacking other persons involved, refusing to be accountable for so doing, and exemplifying the pot calling the kettle black.

Gee, John, who does that sound like??

Given our intimate relationship in this ministry these past 20 years (and another ten prior to that), I believe I am qualified to say that Mark and Karen Anne are not coming from the degree of wholeness that I have experienced from them during the many years when we have shared countless heart-to-heart moments. It is my carefully considered opinion that in order to most glorify God and love His people, Mark should embrace whatever the Board thinks is best for him in order to see the Lord’s healing in his own heart and in his precious wife. Their value to our ministry is inestimable, and, were they whole, no one I know can fill the gap that would be caused by their absence. The thought of going on in this ministry without them puts a knot in my stomach.

Personally, I want my best friend back—the formerly self-described “balding window cleaner from no place theologically important in Florida.” I want the man who, until recently, has for me modeled much meekness, humility, godly introspection, a passion for spiritual growth, a pastoral heart for God’s people, a willingness to account and take responsibility, and who has loved me immensely. And I want the woman with whom I have been closer than a brother for 30+ years, with whom I often have stood side by side in the trenches of spiritual battle.

Having myself been in a somewhat similar situation several years ago, and having felt it best for the ministry and my personal life to first resign from the Board and later to resign as an STF employee, I can painfully identify with Mark in this matter. Through the past 20 years, and among so many godly people with whom I consider myself to be intimate, Mark and Karen Anne have been my closest friends of all. As “iron sharpening iron,” they have often spoken into my life with great love and wisdom, and their example of so doing is one I call to mind as I now do my best to do the same for them.

With the goal of reaching out to Mark as he has so often done for me, I went to him on December 9 and read to him what I have written above (slightly edited since then). He listened, but did not agree at all with what you have read, asking that if I send it to anyone that I would make that clear. He believes that I am deceived, just like John S., Dan, the Theisens, et al.

On December 20, after reading Mark’s just-released 14 page paper titled, “Why I Cannot in Good Conscience Take a ‘Leave of Absence’ or Resign as President at This Time and Under These Circumstances,” I wrote the following (in brackets pp. 6-8, and now slightly edited) to him and Karen Anne, which I think you should see:

[Dear Mark and Karen Anne,

God bless you and yours. I’ve read your 14-page paper, Mark, and your reply to my birthday note to you, Karen. Were I able to hit the rewind button and go back in time to December 9 when I sat with you and read my letter to you, Mark, here is what I would have said first instead. As much as you can, please step back and hear my heart, which is imploring you as my dear friend of 30 years and brother in Christ and fellow laborer in this unique ministry.

You, John S., and I made a whole, a good balance where none of us could get too out of bounds. Adding Dan to that gives us even more wholeness, and balance, like the four legs on a table. The enemy took me out of the loop, at least temporarily, and clearly, you are his next target. Satan has used an incident in your life and your subsequent emotional turmoil to skew your perspective, with the goal of taking you out.

Mark, I’ve been there, and maybe I can help you see this, as I have come to terms with how the enemy has hurt STF via my failures. My part of the balance was taken out, and the thought of you also being taken out is terrible, for then half of us four are gone. Taking some time off in your duties to allow God to heal your heart and make things right in your family, would have been, and maybe still can be, a good thing. Humbling yourself before your peers is the way to stop the Devil from blowing up one incident to the end of removing your invaluable influence from STF.

You are a strong person on the inside, and you are wise. You are smarter than this. Just own up and let God be God. God is simply saying to take care of your heart and your house, so please don’t be threatened. God is God, gracious and merciful. He doesn’t want you out of the picture, but you are almost surely going to be if you don’t see the big picture of what is really happening here.

Sage advice, John. Maybe you should heed it personally. :)

[Larry N Moore]

This post has been edited by Belle: Today, 02:20 PM

Personally, I find it dishonest of a person to edit and delete a portion of a post which has been referred to in another thread (after it was reverenced).

[Belle]

What does it mean that I have been temporarily taken out? What did I bring to the table, and whom have we found to fill my shoes? No one else is me, and no one else is you. If you are taken out, who will then fill your shoes? It is not that someone else cannot be president, just as you took over for me, but it is that no one else is you, the Mark whom God has called to greatness.

All of us together are what makes STF what it is. Sure, we can rebuild without you, but how much better to do it with you? We can have the balance of the truth of the Word as the basis for healthy relationships. It’s not either/or. Everyone is feeling pushed and attacked—if you could just step back, you could see that together we can take this ministry in the right direction. We all need one another.

It is all well and good to get the facts and see who is off base, but the bigger picture is the spiritual attack. The Adversary is trying to systematically destroy the well-rounded wholeness of STF. Rather than fighting my peers, I stepped down with the hope of being back in when I became more whole. I think some of your frustration is that you understand that without you there is going to be a big hole, and that is true. I think you are afraid of where Dan and John will go without your input, but clearly if you are whole you can provide your part of the balance we need. Just own up to your sinful actions in concealing something from the Board that that could have been a “molehill,” rather than having exacerbated it into a mountain, as you have done. If you will own up, I believe you can have the future input you should have in STF. If you don’t, that may not happen.

Mark, that is what I believe I should have said first, and I am sorry that I did not, for perhaps it would have been more entreating to you, and easier for you to receive. And yet I know that a heart of meekness will receive godly reproof no matter the timing, the tone, etc.

Where is your heart of meekness, John?

That being said, after reading your 14-page paper, I am more convinced than ever that what I wrote in the letter I read to you is the truth. Your paper was a smokescreen, a morass of posturing, shucking and jiving, shifting the blame, and, as I said in the letter I read to you, a gross example of someone with a beam talking about the splinters in others’ eyes.

Indeed! Just like this letter, eh?

I love you with all my heart, Mark, and I pray that you will hear what I am saying, but I am now serving you notice that if you do not turn around, I will send this letter (edited somewhat) and the letter I read to you (edited somewhat) to those I think needs to hear it at this point. Perhaps I have taken too long to do this, but I am now completely in the ring fighting for the ministry that you, John, and I started by the grace of God. I will not stand by and let you do any more damage without asserting myself with the many people I know and love, and for whom we together have worked so hard these past 20 years.

How does that account for the lack of information to those involved with and hurt by your ministry?

I believe that you, Karen Anne, and the Resners have built a house of cards here, and if you persist in the direction you are going, I think you will see it collapse around and upon you. Because of how you have acted in the past seven months, Mark, you are almost certainly going to be voted out as president at the January Board meeting, and may even lose your job. I do not believe that you are in alignment with the will of God in all of this, and if that does not change, I fear you will suffer grievous consequences.

D@mn that God causing horrible consequences to those who refuse to obey!! D@mn Him!! Are you not afraid of the same consequences?

If you are planning to split off and take people with you, I am of the opinion that you do not have the support in the STF community you think you have. Time will tell whether or not John, Dan, the Theisens, and I have earned the love, respect, and trust of our precious constituents more so than have you and the Resners.

That's what it's really all about, isn't it? God, save the cash cow!

But I am beseeching you, please do not force God’s precious people, including your own dear children, to make such a choice. God will stand with those of us who stand for truth and honesty, and He will bring us through all of this because He is invested in His Word and in those of us who stand for it. PLEASE choose to be among us. I love you more than you know.]On December 26, prior to sending out this letter to you, I spoke with Mark and asked him if my words had touched his heart and helped him change his overall stance. He was very gracious, said he thought I was misinformed on some things, and that I should do what I thought I needed to do before the Lord. I then told him I would be sending out this letter to him and to others I thought needed to see it at this time. Thank you for praying fervently for each person involved in this situation, and for our ministry as we reach out with God’s wonderful Word around the world. The future is as bright as the promises of God. Amen.

Your brother in Christ,

John Lynn

A brief p.s. to critics of Spirit & Truth Fellowship:

Given the way that documents such as this somehow wind up on the Internet, let me say a few things to our detractors who will use this current situation in STF to say “I told you so,” take potshots at us, and magnify our flaws above the good we are doing for people. First, God bless you, I love you. Second, be sure you know enough truth about the issues to make a rational judgment. Third, get close enough to the nucleus of STF leadership to see their hearts before you impugn them.

First, you gave permission for this to be posted and, from what I understand, asked that it be posted. Second, you've given quite the view of your heart and the hearts of those you've just written this long essay about.

Fourth, take an honest look at what we teach from the Word about whatever subjects are pertinent to this matter, like prophecy. Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org.

First, you have not addressed follow up questions and clarifications of your position. Neither via personal e-mail, phone calls nor on your websites.

In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the “package” we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it, as well as the liberating impact it has had on people around the world during the past 20 years.

Gee, John, you sound just like TWI leadership! You learned well, eh?

You will have to judge for yourself whether what we teach is sound doctrine, and whether we practice it in love. But you cannot do that from afar. I encourage you to dig into our work, and I exhort you to “stay tuned” and see if the hand of God is on us. Watch and see where He takes this ministry in the days ahead. I do hope that among the millions whose lives we hope to touch, we will be able to bless you, the only you God has.

We're watching! We're waiting! When do we get the answers?

As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707. If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me.

Pity John can not see to apply these same observations on himself to repent and right the wrongs he has done.

[Belle]

WordWolf, as usual, has an excellent response to this letter.

This is a letter (position paper) from John Lynn.

Posted with permission.

As I see it, this is JAL managing to write a reply to the GSC without changing his position of

"I don't reply to the GSC."

"Oh, this is information I want to get out publickly, and you should ask God before releasing it in

any format."

I detect a distinct "wink-wink" in that.

Either JAL wrote this with the express purpose of seeing it appear here, or he didn't.

A) If JAL wrote this with the express purpose of seeing it appear here, he did so with the little

disclaimers at the beginning and the end saying "I don't communicate with people on the

GSC" while writing a response he expected to be communicated with the people on the GSC.

This doesn't strike me as particularly HONEST and without ARTIFICE.

If I was paying money to CES/STFI, I'd question why leadership would feel the need to

be intentionally less than honest in their dealings with me or anyone else.

Does God sanction dishonest dealings with the family? How about when they're not in

OUR ORGANIZATION-does it become sanctioned then?

B) If JAL did NOT write this knowing that it would appear in THE single biggest avenue of

communication where the CES/STFI people are getting information about the inner workings

of their own group and the sole venue for discussing it

(and personally, I think both of THOSE are important points in and of themselves)

then he demonstrated a lack of understanding that I think makes him unsuited to leading

a group in anything more detailed than a song.

"Oh, I had no idea it would end up at the GSC when I wrote it."

Give me a break. I find it hardly credible he's that obtuse.

(Others may disagree with me, and simply think he was HONEST, but LACK VISION.)

==================

And here's the part that's directed directly to us.

But not by name.

Because he's not talking to us.

He's just using a megaphone to carry on a conversation right near us.

Let's look at this a bit.

"A brief p.s. to critics of Spirit & Truth Fellowship:"

Translation: 'This is to the GSC, whose only purpose in here is to attack us with critical statements.'

Or, in other words, 'the GSC has nothing positive to offer in this discussion,

which we've been forced to have largely because of them opening up communication

we were trying to close.'

"Given the way that documents such as this somehow wind up on the Internet, "

Translation: 'I don't write this with the INTENT it ends up on the GSC,

but it might SOMEHOW end up there anyway. SOMEHOW.'

Or, in other words, 'I write this with no plans to see it on the GSC, but I'll address them anyway

in case it "somehow" ends up there.'

Honest? What do you guys think?

"let me say a few things to our detractors who will use this current situation in STF to say “I told you so,” take potshots at us, and magnify our flaws above the good we are doing for people."

Translation: 'Let me make it clear that discussion at the GSC does nothing but magnify our flaws,

and especially take cheap shots at us.'

Or, in other words, 'You guys have nothing to offer here other than complaints.'

"First, God bless you, I love you."

Translation: 'Since saying negative things about you would detract from my image that I'm a

heckuva nice guy, I'll follow up my initial disguised shot at you all by saying something pious.'

It reminds me of a complaint I saw once about a poster on one messageboard.

At the end of lengthy posts talking down to all other Christians, they posted their

signature, "God bless you." People found that hypocritical at the time.

How genuine THIS is, I leave to each reader to decide. Me, I do not think it is 100% false,

but I find the evidence makes accepting this as 100% to be unsupportable.

"Second, be sure you know enough truth about the issues to make a rational judgment."

Translation: 'I'm going to state the obvious-know the truth before making any decisions,

so as to demonstrate I'm a reasonable man. Of course, I hardly wanted anyone to HEAR

the truth on any of this, but that's not important right now.'

Personally, I find the timing of this statement rather convenient. It's a good idea in general,

but at this moment, I see it going somewhere.

"Third, get close enough to the nucleus of STF leadership to see their hearts before you impugn them."

Translation: 'Stop criticizing us as making bad decisions or ungodly decisions or harmful decisions

until you get to know us PERSONALLY over an EXTENDED period of time.'

Meant to quell discussion by the majority of people, it's as sensible as saying we can't ever

discuss Paul the Apostle since none of us know him personally-only by his writings

(and one side-comment from Peter, whom we don't know personally either.)

Knowing "their hearts" on a subject may help explain WHY they make a boneheaded decision,

but is irrelevant to whether or not a decision IS boneheaded, which is one of the main things

we're discussing here.

I also find it ironic that harmful talk of people, called "personal prophecy", was sometimes

given to people who the speaker did NOT know, and that was fine for years, but to say so

is "impugning" the speaker. I might consider there to be an element of hypocrisy present.

" Fourth, take an honest look at what we teach from the Word about whatever subjects are pertinent to this matter, like prophecy. Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org."

Translation: 'Our doctrine is correct no matter what you say. 'Personal prophecy' has ALWAYS

been correct, and we will continue to defend it as true no matter what.

Our position on 'personal prophecy' is sound doctrine.

Oh, and buy our book.'

I never heard the leadership apologize for Momentus, or admit it was a bad idea or harmful to the

brethren. It was just quietly dropped, and ANY inquiries were stifled with the famous

"talking evil" party line. Now 'personal prophecy' is being defended with fervor.

Leadership seems to find it approaching impossible to admit to the possibility of making

bad decisions as a whole.

Considering what's on the table now, that strikes me as mildly ironic.

"In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I

can find no one else with the “package” we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it, as well as the liberating impact it has had on people around the world during the past 20 years."

Translation: 'Be loyal to the ministry that taught you The Word. If not for us, you'd wander in darkness

without any accurate Word.'

Fine, that's a SLIGHT exaggeration. But it's only a small step from here to there.

Plus, it says that the people who were HARMED over the past 20 years are an acceptable consequence

for defending 'the ministry', since this thing seems to ONLY have positive results on people.

"You will have to judge for yourself whether what we teach is sound doctrine, and whether we practice it in love."

Doesn't this contradict where he JUST DECLARED 'personal prophecy' was sound doctrine?

"But you cannot do that from afar. I encourage you to dig into our work, and I exhort you to “stay tuned” and see if the hand of God is on us. Watch and see where He takes this ministry in the days ahead. I do hope that among the millions whose lives we hope to touch, we will be able to bless you, the only you God has."

Translation: 'You can't judge our doctrine by just reading it and comparing it to Scripture- you will need

to interact with us for months in detail, and buy our stuff, before making any judgements.

Did I forget to mention you're a fabulous human being?'

I'm getting whiplash!

First I was scum for even DISCUSSING error,

then whether or not it's error is up to me,

then I'm a great guy!

"As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707."

Translation:'I only dialogue with people in private, so I can control the discussion.'

" If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you."

Naturally, I remain the final arbiter as to whether or not you know me and care about me, and reserve the

right to refuse private discussion with you entirely.

" I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me."

Translation: 'And those people who use screen-names, they're scum and have nothing to offer.

The only reasons they can maintain anonymity are because they lack

love and courage.'

Gee, wasn't I a great guy a few sentences ago?

One might think that JAL was exercising the tactic known as "poisoning the well", attempting to label a source of information so that its genuine merits would be ignored.

[Belle]

Intersting, I sent him an email almost a week ago now - and used my name. Haven't heard anything back.

Source of quote

Well said, Tom. Its really not that difficult to sit back and pinpoint some of those problems.

1. If the majority of the board agrees that an individual needs to be removed from a position - especially a high position like President, but has no power to remove that individual, the structure is bad.

2. When new things are taught (such as personal prophesy, Jesus is or isn't God), I can't help but wonder who decides what is on or off "The Word." Who makes sure it is truly accurate? Is there a research team? Does the research team basically consist of the very same people who are the board? [Again, if it does, the structure is bad, because it lacks proper checks and balances.]

3. It seems to me, somewhere along the line, people stopped worshipping God and started worshipping their friends and/or their "prophets".

4. John Lynn talks about disagreeing with some of the prophesies (and good for him for doing so!), but does one have to be a "top gun" in CES in order to be allowed to do so? Who determines what prophesies are truly from God and which are not? What is the process? Where are the checks and balances?

5. Who determines under what circumstances a staff member can be fired? Is there a proper job description and means of evaluating performance? If there isn't, not only is there a lack of proper checks and balances, but depending on the state laws where the employee is working, they could leave themselves open to a lawsuit.

There's a start, and one that doesn't even begin to discuss the soundness, or lack thereof, of their doctrine.

Johnny, I understand where you are coming from - you've a good heart, really. I see this from a different perspective than you, though. When people use God or "His Word" as a weapon to beat up others, when they hide behind it to excuse hurtful words or actions, in my opinion it is a manifestation of their heart.

I'm not saying John Lynn or the others are evil, but there is something wrong there. Maybe it is fear, fear of losing their position within the organization, a lack of trust that people would understand and forgive if the real truth were known, whatever. Maybe it is greed. Maybe one or more of them has simply become delusional. But having spent 10 years under LCM's reign in TWI, it does stir up a lot of emotions in me when I read about this stuff.

Preaching/pastoring/ministering/teaching in God's name is a very serious business (and isn't it unfortuante that is often such a lucrative business, too?). No one should get away with using God to hurt others.

Source of quote

as a board member, i would have fired myself and then karen anne when the name STFI was chosen

Ya gotta love ex! :biglaugh:

[Belle]

Mystery solved!

It's Rhino's fault!

When the cult books were put out pre 1986 ... I read them whenever I could find them. For every one good point, they seemed to overstate or just make up some really major points (e.g. I knew "Hunter Safety" was not paramilitary training). I didn't believe all the sex stuff then, but it turns out that was more true than I knew.

But now instead of a few books and articles, we have the internet with hundreds of people to discuss point by point the details of these type organizations. This is a good thing, but I can see how CES type groups would not want outsiders judging their actions. But many "outsiders" here are very well informed and even involved, and have some very "cult free" thinking to offer.

Actually, this whole mess may be my fault. When John visited Paul in NOLA about 1988, I hung with those two a little after the fellowship, (where I felt John was explaining away his culpability in the twi mess ... "well, I guess I probably could have figured out it was wrong" ) Anyway, JAL was talking about his venture into comedy club stuff I think ... (remember that long bit about the pick off at first?) Well, I felt strongly like saying "John, get away from doing this same old Bible guru thing and go live life ... you are too full of the whole cult mentality to be suddenly pure" ... or something like that. Anyway, I missed sharing that personal prophecy for you ... sorry about that!

But I didn't have any spiders or snakes in my personal prophecy, so it was probably just good sense. And I would bet plenty of others spoke up along the way, no doubt all discounted as messengers of darkness, trying to "take you out". Anyway, good luck with that SAT thing ... you still playing full court?

[rhino]

Mystery solved!

It's Rhino's fault!

Yes ... it IS my fault ...

But I will say if old JAL is still playing full court, he may indeed be a god ...

if I recall correctrly, the part he "could have figured out" was about the adultry with young corps babes ... what was going on in that basement at Emporia? Like it took a lot of research to figure out adultry and/or sex with your "spiritual underlings" was wrong. Gag.

As I said somewhere else, why not just put out kegs in the basement and we all could have partied together ... but that might have been too obvious.

He did have a sense of humor, a couple that tried harder than I to change things, said they went and complained about many things wrong at Emporia, and after their long intense spiel JAL said ... "so how do you feel about what we're doing with Allen gym?"

but nothing changed ...

[Danny]

Larry

You never edit something for grammar or spelling?

Don't answer I don't want to know.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Danny

[Larry N Moore]

Larry

You never edit something for grammar or spelling?

Don't answer I don't want to know.

Look at the timestamps in this thread as well as the post I made in the other thread on John Lynn. Some people may believe in coincidences but I wouldn't be among them. Sheesh, yea I know you don't want to know but, darn if you don't want to cast out some bait -- Iow, if you didn't want to know then it's pretty durn ignorant of you to even ask.

[cman]

Personally, I find it dishonest of a person to edit and delete a portion of a post which has been referred to in another thread (after it was reverenced).

it was reverenced

lol.......lol...........lol....lol....lol......

wahahahahahahahshaaa :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

o God what a great day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Danny]

I did and you did.

Then you threw out a insult.

Wanted to see what kind of person you were.

Was it upbringing or just bad manners.

Mostly just wanted to bring this to the top

because of content in light of other tread.

Your to easy a target.

Hows it feel?

Edited November 22, 2007 by Danny

[Larry N Moore]

I did and you did.

Then you threw out a insult.

Wanted to see what kind of person you were.

Was it upbringing or just bad manners.

Mostly just wanted to bring this to the top

because of content in light of other tread.

Your to easy a target.

Hows it feel?

Children! How they love to play games.

[Danny]

I see you played along.

How old are you?

[Larry N Moore]

I see you played along.

How old are you?

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving Day, Danny.

[Danny]

Thank you.

You to.

It will be I woke up that's a good start.

It seems most take this stuff way to serious.

You are a good sport.

I always love to play.

Hope I can do it till my dying day.

Sunrises and play days.

As far as John he will be judged by the same God as me.

I hope I atone for my sins on my brothers and sisters

more so. Tell them I'm sorry and do better next time.

I'm not the judge but do get judged for my actions

and words.

Do my words here on this board help or destroy?

I pray they help some.

I'm sure I knew many that post here and pray for people here.

It is an intreging place.

It has given me understanding in certain places.

God works to do and will of his good pleasure or something like that.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Danny

[pond]

I will say the part that bothers me the most in his letter.

it is the part where he proclaims Mrk is not "in the will of God" and then the threat of" greivious consequences. "

ya know im just tired real tired of people sicing God on His beloved children.

why can they not speak in normal tones like everyone eles?

something like OK Mark Im PIZZED OFF! and your gonna pay!

now that we all could understand.

even if it all about a "cash cow" John is the one who talks about turning lemon into lemonaid and "keeping it real".

no they have to go and make God a big bully who is out to get you if you refuse to comply to what they think of the situation.

it is a bully threatening statement.

frightening really.

very controling and makes the Lord seem as if he is the mafia for their mininstry.

I do not like it at all.

[Tom Strange]

I see you played along.

How old are you?

I was born at 10:20 pm . . . . . . on May 8th, 1955.

I could be mistaken, but I think LNM was answering you (Danny) in this post...

[Larry N Moore]

I could be mistaken, but I think LNM was answering you (Danny) in this post...

You are. I was responding to your sarcasm.

[Tom Strange]

Moi? Sarcasm?

Edited November 22, 2007 by Tom Strange

[Larry N Moore]

Moi? Sarcasm?

Well, Tom, you stated I could interpret your response (in the other thread) anyway I wanted to. I figured calling your response sarcasm would be less likely to get me a rebuke from the moderators. Now if I were free to say what was really on my mind I would have to go back about three letters in the alphabet and choose a word that began with that letter. I assume you're a bright fellow and can figure out what that would be. :)

[Tom Strange]

whatever you wish... and I'll commit to memory that you were born at 10:20 pm . . . . . . on May 8th, 1955!

And that you share a birthday with Alex Van Halen, Gary Glitter and Harry S. Truman.

[Larry N Moore]

whatever you wish... and I'll commit to memory that you were born at 10:20 pm . . . . . . on May 8th, 1955!

And that you share a birthday with Alex Van Halen, Gary Glitter and Harry S. Truman.

Whatever wish? :blink: It's too early to blow out any candles. Remind me closer to May 8th and I'll keep you in mind.

[Tom Strange]

Whatever wish? :blink: It's too early to blow out any candles. Remind me closer to May 8th and I'll keep you in mind.

OK... and I'll be waving the flag, too (since it's also V-E day)...