First off...Welcome to the Spot Friendofinnie. You are hear because you are seeking answers to questions that you do not yet have words for. In time they will come.
In regards to the questions that you have already asked.
"What kind of person, who grew up in a traditional Christian home and is relatively intelligent, would join The Way?"
There are as many answers to that question as there are people. It is an individual walk. We all walk our own path with God and sometimes our path takes us places that others find distasteful or even unwise. Sometimes we wander off of the path and end up in strange places as well.
"Why did the members who post regularly to this site join TWI, if they joined after reaching the maturation of their faculties?"
Once again the answer to this is varied. Most of us were searching for something and at least for a time twi provided or appeared to provide that "something". But in truth do not be mislead in believing that there was/is absolutely nothing redeamable about twi. If you were to focus only on the organization to find God then you would be heartily disappointed. It was and probably is the individual people that make or break a person's exerience with twi.
Although you did not ask but alluded to the brain washing I will add that many of us that stayed even after the "outing" of the top leadership's sins were at least partially influenced by individuals to stay. In other words, many stayed to help...to try and fix things...or to try to protect those in our care.
Again, Welcome. I sincerely hope that you find the answers you seek.
I was in a church before twi but it did not feel like the family I saw in twi
in church people seem to be putting on a act but twi seem to be more like a family
but the truth in churches some are putting on acts others do not know what to do the numbers are large so everybody does not get close
but in twi the numbers are small so everybody gets close and everybody knows what to do but the top leadership is not leading out of love for people but for money
now you will see churches top leaders with the same problem but the top leaders of a church are not around like they are in the way
what you can do is share about us with your friend but nothing might work
now that I have tried to share my reason stray around learn from us we love God too
For me, the people of the way in the area I lived really did their best to live the Word and help one another. There was no abuse that I know of to this day in my hometown area. We heard occasional rumblings of unchristianlike activities, but they were few and far between.
The twigs that I attended for my first 14 years with twi were really about biblical research, teaching and fellowship with likeminded believers. I loved it. We were involved in each other's lives every day. We took meals together as often as we could. We were like a big family. It was fabulous.
It wasn't until I went wow (the way's former "missionary program") that 15th year that I saw anything other than what I believed was the love of God out of way people.
If you read the My Story section of this site, you'll see more of why people were attracted to the way and then stayed so long. As Belle said, there are as many reasons why as there are people.
I was 21 when I first started attending twig fellowship. It was the biblical research I was originally interested in. The "lovebombing" won me over to the fun of the social end of the deal after a couple years.
Part of the answer lies in the fact that they taught us to believe that "rational" thinking is really "irrational". :blink:
The number one "rule"(so to speak) is/was to never even entertain the possibility that someone with an opposing view might have a valid point.
In fact, a focal point of one of the sessions of the P@wer For Abnndant Living class dealt with the five steps that the serpent supposedly used to deceive Eve and bring about the fall of Mankind.
Step number one was that she listened to and considered what he said.
See how that works?
If you start to consider the viewpoints of others, you are destined for catastrophe just as certainly as Eve was.
(cough, hack, wheeze)
We're usually a pretty friendly bunch.(for the most part)
First round is on the house. Can I get you a root beer float or something?
Hello to all: I have never been a member of TWI or any of its offshoots. I have an acquaintance/friend who is an active member (even if "member" isn't the right word). I'll be careful not to identify this person, as I have read that TWI keeps tabs on this site.
Indeed they do. Pretty sick, eh? Spying on their own people....real Christian, doncha think?
They say they aren't members - that TWI doesn't have any members, but that's just a technicality because they do own you - they own your whole life and micro-manage every aspect of it down to your thoughts.
My friend is a good person, it seems to me. I'm not sure exactly what else to say, and I'm not sure even why I signed up as a member. After this person told me his religious affiliation, if that is the correct term, my curiousity brought me to this and similar websites that are very contra-TWI. Upon reflection, TWI's official site is the only one I have seen that sheds a positive light on the organization. I guess I'm just wondering if my friend's experiences in The Way are comparable to the experiences of others.
Amazing how the nicest, brightest, kindest and most "normal" seeming people can be involved with a group as perverted and messed up as TWI, isn't it? Happens to the best of us sometimes. Some folks are born into TWI and don't really have a choice on the matter, others are recruited and get sucked in during very vulnerable times in their life, others are duped by the sales tactics that TWI uses. All are deceived and merely serve as a meal ticket for the upper echelon.
I'm not looking to get my friend out of The Way, and I'm certainly not looking to join. Sorry for rambling on, but maybe I have a question. What kind of person, who grew up in a traditional Christian home and is relatively intelligent, would join The Way? And after being exposed to its teachings, why would such a person continue to be an active member and allow him or herself to become more deeply involved? Would the answers to these questions be the same as the answers to the question of why one converts to traditional Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam? Why did the members who post regularly to this site join TWI, if they joined after reaching the maturation of their faculties? The subjects of mind control and brainwashing fascinate me. I need to sign off now and go to church. Maybe I'll write more later.
That's the million dollar question, there, Friend. :) If we had that answer we'd have not gotten involved, maybe. Maybe we would have gotten out quicker than we did. There are many, many posts on here lamenting that very thing. Some of us have come to a pretty good understanding of where we were, how we were duped and how we came to see the light - others of us are still trying to figure it out. That's part of why some of us are here.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.
Anyway, welcome! Ask away; look around; make yourself at home. Just don't put your gum under the counter near the coffee pot, that's where I save mine.
[WordWolf's comments in boldface, as they often are.]
Hello to all: I have never been a member of TWI or any of its offshoots.
[You're welcome here nevertheless- those aren't requirements for reading or posting here.]
I have an acquaintance/friend who is an active member (even if "member" isn't the right word).
[They used to prefer the term "FOLLOWER", and claim "follower of the Way" meant "follower of Jesus Christ",
although all PRACTICAL use meant "he who does whatever we say."
They said "the only 'members' we have are the Board, so you can't join, or quit.
Which was nonsense, since people came and left, and sometimes were kicked out.
Games with terms and names are common with twi and ex-twi.
Then again, if there's no "members", there's no one to be held ACCOUNTABLE to.
But their games with words won't impress a court of law, just because they can convince their
"followers" not to use words CORRECTLY.]
I'll be careful not to identify this person, as I have read that TWI keeps tabs on this site.
[indeed they do.]
My friend is a good person, it seems to me.
[There are SOME good people still in twi. Problem is, most of them's reasoning processes are crippled
from being in twi. You can see the lingering effects around here when reading some of the threads.
Some threads show people desperate to defend the pristine memory of a successful criminal, dead more
than 20 years, or "his" books and class as "the greatest revelation in 2000 years."
This is the LITE version of what it's like in twi NOW.
These people have been out more than a decade, or in a few cases, are kids of those who are, and never
were in twi themselves at all.]
I'm not sure exactly what else to say, and I'm not sure even why I signed up as a member. After this person told me his religious affiliation, if that is the correct term, my curiousity brought me to this and similar websites that are very contra-TWI. Upon reflection, TWI's official site is the only one I have seen that sheds a positive light on the organization.
[if you look hard enough, you'll find messageboards by a member or two, and those
paint a positive picture. Then again, the "WayGB" (as we call them) MONITOR those sites as they
monitor THIS site. They can't make us say what they want, but they DO enforce conformity on their
members' boards.]
I guess I'm just wondering if my friend's experiences in The Way are comparable to the experiences of others.
Possibly.
Everyone's experience, to a degree, was unique. However, most of them have SOME things in common, moreso for those
in during the same decade (70s with 70s, etc.)
So, all are at least comparable, to a smaller or larger degree.]
I'm not looking to get my friend out of The Way, and I'm certainly not looking to join.
[That's unusual, but you're no less welcome here, to learn or just hang out.]
Sorry for rambling on, but maybe I have a question. What kind of person, who grew up in a traditional Christian home and is relatively intelligent, would join The Way? And after being exposed to its teachings, why would such a person continue to be an active member and allow him or herself to become more deeply involved?
[Depends on PERSONAL specifics.
To apply your question to my OWN history, the short answers were:
A) I knew my upbringing had not given me satisfactory answers to all the big questions.
And I was under the illusion that if MY denomination didn't have them, NO Christian did.
(That's easier before the internet-or for people afraid to interact on it now.)
I honestly thought they had answers others did not. This was compounded by the fiction
spread BY twi that said their source of information was unique to them, that none of it was
known to any other Christians outside of twi. (That's harder to manage now that the
'cat is out of the bag', but those determined to believe that's true, can still manage
to believe it by ignoring outside information.)]
Would the answers to these questions be the same as the answers to the question of why one converts to traditional Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam? Why did the members who post regularly to this site join TWI, if they joined after reaching the maturation of their faculties? The subjects of mind control and brainwashing fascinate me. I need to sign off now and go to church. Maybe I'll write more later.
[Feel free to ask more, if that-and the posts you read around here-don't answer your questions.]
...What kind of person, who grew up in a traditional Christian home and is relatively intelligent, would join The Way? And after being exposed to its teachings, why would such a person continue to be an active member and allow him or herself to become more deeply involved? Would the answers to these questions be the same as the answers to the question of why one converts to traditional Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam? Why did the members who post regularly to this site join TWI, if they joined after reaching the maturation of their faculties? The subjects of mind control and brainwashing fascinate me. I need to sign off now and go to church. Maybe I'll write more later.
Welcome to GSC, FriendoFinnie! Excellent questions! I can't speak for others – but when it comes to my own involvement with TWI in my early 20s – I was raised in a good Christian home, attended Roman Catholic Church but didn't know squat about the Bible. I'd say the two biggest reasons for me joining a cult were the lack of critical thinking skills and the lack of a Bible knowledge base. There's a lot more to it than that when we talk about the emotional and social needs of a person – don't know if you can come up with a typical profile of a cult-candidate….psychology isn't my thing.
Developing critical thinking skills takes time and experience , wasn't something promoted in my schooling or home – but after being burned by TWI – I've tried to make up for lost time in that regard. The book of Proverbs has so much wisdom on developing critical thinking – it's one of my favorite books.
TWI encouraged us to ABSORB their teachings - NOT ANALYZE them. And we all assumed – not only that the teacher [vpw] was a genuine scholar with good intentions – but also that God Himself revealed to him the stuff he taught us…He was a drunken plagiarizing sexual predator with a doctor's title from a degree-granting mill.
I've read in one of those cult books that cults are the unpaid bills of the church – I agree. At the time that I got involved with TWI the Roman Catholic Church that I went to wasn't big on teaching Bible stuff – just a lot of rituals, ceremonial pomp and a lot of the Mass was in Latin…Since leaving TWI – I have aggressively pursued systematic theology, studying biblical languages, biblical hermeneutics and reviewing Bible commentaries by reputable theologians [in other words – folks who are real scholars with high intellectual standards who honor biblical hermeneutics and use good critical thinking methods].
Hello to all: I have never been a member of TWI or any of its offshoots. I have an acquaintance/friend who is an active member (even if "member" isn't the right word). I'll be careful not to identify this person, as I have read that TWI keeps tabs on this site. My friend is a good person, it seems to me. I'm not sure exactly what else to say, and I'm not sure even why I signed up as a member. After this person told me his religious affiliation, if that is the correct term, my curiousity brought me to this and similar websites that are very contra-TWI. Upon reflection, TWI's official site is the only one I have seen that sheds a positive light on the organization. I guess I'm just wondering if my friend's experiences in The Way are comparable to the experiences of others. I'm not looking to get my friend out of The Way, and I'm certainly not looking to join. Sorry for rambling on, but maybe I have a question. What kind of person, who grew up in a traditional Christian home and is relatively intelligent, would join The Way? And after being exposed to its teachings, why would such a person continue to be an active member and allow him or herself to become more deeply involved? Would the answers to these questions be the same as the answers to the question of why one converts to traditional Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam? Why did the members who post regularly to this site join TWI, if they joined after reaching the maturation of their faculties? The subjects of mind control and brainwashing fascinate me. I need to sign off now and go to church. Maybe I'll write more later.
well you dont join you just come. and the reason to come is for the word of GOD that is taught. i grew up roman catholic and quit going cause i didnt learn anything about GOD. was told about these fellowships in 1980 went and started learning about GOD. there have ben some really mean and nasty ego headed people in leadership positions in the past and we finally got them out. i was away from the way on 2 ocasions but came back for the bible that is taught. the way has FINALLY turned into a great ministry.there isnt any brain washing no one is forced to go in fact if you are just coming to take up room and dont want to learn the bible then dont come.as far as mind control exactly what do you mean. me learning how to control my mind like an airforce fighter pilot does or a cop does or the president of the u.s. does. if you dont like what you hear you leave and you dont come back its that simple.everything that is taught comes from the bible unlike the roman catholic church which says take it by faith. fortunatly i wasnt raped by some priest and yes i was an alter boy!! i dont know what your friends experiences with the way are but he either likes what he hears and comes or he doesnt. you dont join and there is no membership,you just come and here the bible once or twice a week or whenever for about an hour.its really up to the individual to STUDY the bible own there own at home or wherever. my question is what kind of an intellegent person would go to the roman catholic church? my dad for one ,he was a baptist a long time ago and a few years back started going to the rc . hes never ben to a way fellowship, and probably never will , i'm still shocked the he even goes to a church cause he didnt go for over 30 years. you say your friend is a good person, well thats part of living according to GODS word. GODS word teaches you HOW to be a good person,YOU have to do it ,GOD will not do it for you and i am certainally not gonna follow someone around and do it for them, i got enough things to do like work on my hot rod car,practice my drums,type this sort of stuff on my computer,drink coffee,talk on the phone ,go to the movies to see iron man,etc,etc. as far as reaching the maturation of my faculties well i'v ben playing drums over 35 years i'm 50 now and like what the late great drummer buddy rich said not long before he died i'm still learning to play the drums,and i'm still learning GODS word and HOW to apply it in my life. there were some very bad times in the way brought about by corrupt ,mean ,self serving,ego headed, only care about themselves,people that were in leadership positions but they are long gone. this ministry has changed so much in the last 7 years you could call it a DIFFERENT ministry. we will not tolerate ANY who is corrupt. they will be thrown out. people didnt speak up before and as it says in the book of peter in the bible there shall be false ministers that shall come in among you, we keep a watchful eye these days and we will never allow that again. i come for the bible that is taught. there are other groups that teach the bible also but the way is where i go. go with your friend and check it out for yourself.
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Eyesopen
First off...Welcome to the Spot Friendofinnie. You are hear because you are seeking answers to questions that you do not yet have words for. In time they will come.
In regards to the questions that you have already asked.
"What kind of person, who grew up in a traditional Christian home and is relatively intelligent, would join The Way?"
There are as many answers to that question as there are people. It is an individual walk. We all walk our own path with God and sometimes our path takes us places that others find distasteful or even unwise. Sometimes we wander off of the path and end up in strange places as well.
"Why did the members who post regularly to this site join TWI, if they joined after reaching the maturation of their faculties?"
Once again the answer to this is varied. Most of us were searching for something and at least for a time twi provided or appeared to provide that "something". But in truth do not be mislead in believing that there was/is absolutely nothing redeamable about twi. If you were to focus only on the organization to find God then you would be heartily disappointed. It was and probably is the individual people that make or break a person's exerience with twi.
Although you did not ask but alluded to the brain washing I will add that many of us that stayed even after the "outing" of the top leadership's sins were at least partially influenced by individuals to stay. In other words, many stayed to help...to try and fix things...or to try to protect those in our care.
Again, Welcome. I sincerely hope that you find the answers you seek.
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year2027
God first
Beloved friendofinnie
God loves you my dear friend
welcome first
there are countless reasons people join twi
I was in a church before twi but it did not feel like the family I saw in twi
in church people seem to be putting on a act but twi seem to be more like a family
but the truth in churches some are putting on acts others do not know what to do the numbers are large so everybody does not get close
but in twi the numbers are small so everybody gets close and everybody knows what to do but the top leadership is not leading out of love for people but for money
now you will see churches top leaders with the same problem but the top leaders of a church are not around like they are in the way
what you can do is share about us with your friend but nothing might work
now that I have tried to share my reason stray around learn from us we love God too
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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bowtwi
For me, the people of the way in the area I lived really did their best to live the Word and help one another. There was no abuse that I know of to this day in my hometown area. We heard occasional rumblings of unchristianlike activities, but they were few and far between.
The twigs that I attended for my first 14 years with twi were really about biblical research, teaching and fellowship with likeminded believers. I loved it. We were involved in each other's lives every day. We took meals together as often as we could. We were like a big family. It was fabulous.
It wasn't until I went wow (the way's former "missionary program") that 15th year that I saw anything other than what I believed was the love of God out of way people.
If you read the My Story section of this site, you'll see more of why people were attracted to the way and then stayed so long. As Belle said, there are as many reasons why as there are people.
I was 21 when I first started attending twig fellowship. It was the biblical research I was originally interested in. The "lovebombing" won me over to the fun of the social end of the deal after a couple years.
I hope that helps answer your questions.
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waysider
Welcome, Friendofinnie
I wish there was an easy answer but there isn't.
Part of the answer lies in the fact that they taught us to believe that "rational" thinking is really "irrational". :blink:
The number one "rule"(so to speak) is/was to never even entertain the possibility that someone with an opposing view might have a valid point.
In fact, a focal point of one of the sessions of the P@wer For Abnndant Living class dealt with the five steps that the serpent supposedly used to deceive Eve and bring about the fall of Mankind.
Step number one was that she listened to and considered what he said.
See how that works?
If you start to consider the viewpoints of others, you are destined for catastrophe just as certainly as Eve was.
(cough, hack, wheeze)
We're usually a pretty friendly bunch.(for the most part)
Hope you enjoy your visit.
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Belle
Welcome, Friend!
First round is on the house. Can I get you a root beer float or something?
Indeed they do. Pretty sick, eh? Spying on their own people....real Christian, doncha think?
They say they aren't members - that TWI doesn't have any members, but that's just a technicality because they do own you - they own your whole life and micro-manage every aspect of it down to your thoughts.
Amazing how the nicest, brightest, kindest and most "normal" seeming people can be involved with a group as perverted and messed up as TWI, isn't it? Happens to the best of us sometimes. Some folks are born into TWI and don't really have a choice on the matter, others are recruited and get sucked in during very vulnerable times in their life, others are duped by the sales tactics that TWI uses. All are deceived and merely serve as a meal ticket for the upper echelon.
That's the million dollar question, there, Friend. :) If we had that answer we'd have not gotten involved, maybe. Maybe we would have gotten out quicker than we did. There are many, many posts on here lamenting that very thing. Some of us have come to a pretty good understanding of where we were, how we were duped and how we came to see the light - others of us are still trying to figure it out. That's part of why some of us are here.
Michael Shermer, founder of Skeptic.com and Skeptic Magazine wrote a great book called Why People Believe Weird Thing - one chapter of that book is here: Why Smart People Believe Weird Things. In that chapter he says:
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.
Anyway, welcome! Ask away; look around; make yourself at home. Just don't put your gum under the counter near the coffee pot, that's where I save mine.
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WordWolf
[WordWolf's comments in boldface, as they often are.]
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cman
friendofinnie, it's the carrot on a stick trick
twi has perfected it, to their own destruction
they don't even know what the carrot is......
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T-Bone
Welcome to GSC, FriendoFinnie! Excellent questions! I can't speak for others – but when it comes to my own involvement with TWI in my early 20s – I was raised in a good Christian home, attended Roman Catholic Church but didn't know squat about the Bible. I'd say the two biggest reasons for me joining a cult were the lack of critical thinking skills and the lack of a Bible knowledge base. There's a lot more to it than that when we talk about the emotional and social needs of a person – don't know if you can come up with a typical profile of a cult-candidate….psychology isn't my thing.
Developing critical thinking skills takes time and experience , wasn't something promoted in my schooling or home – but after being burned by TWI – I've tried to make up for lost time in that regard. The book of Proverbs has so much wisdom on developing critical thinking – it's one of my favorite books.
TWI encouraged us to ABSORB their teachings - NOT ANALYZE them. And we all assumed – not only that the teacher [vpw] was a genuine scholar with good intentions – but also that God Himself revealed to him the stuff he taught us…He was a drunken plagiarizing sexual predator with a doctor's title from a degree-granting mill.
I've read in one of those cult books that cults are the unpaid bills of the church – I agree. At the time that I got involved with TWI the Roman Catholic Church that I went to wasn't big on teaching Bible stuff – just a lot of rituals, ceremonial pomp and a lot of the Mass was in Latin…Since leaving TWI – I have aggressively pursued systematic theology, studying biblical languages, biblical hermeneutics and reviewing Bible commentaries by reputable theologians [in other words – folks who are real scholars with high intellectual standards who honor biblical hermeneutics and use good critical thinking methods].
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shiftthis
well you dont join you just come. and the reason to come is for the word of GOD that is taught. i grew up roman catholic and quit going cause i didnt learn anything about GOD. was told about these fellowships in 1980 went and started learning about GOD. there have ben some really mean and nasty ego headed people in leadership positions in the past and we finally got them out. i was away from the way on 2 ocasions but came back for the bible that is taught. the way has FINALLY turned into a great ministry.there isnt any brain washing no one is forced to go in fact if you are just coming to take up room and dont want to learn the bible then dont come.as far as mind control exactly what do you mean. me learning how to control my mind like an airforce fighter pilot does or a cop does or the president of the u.s. does. if you dont like what you hear you leave and you dont come back its that simple.everything that is taught comes from the bible unlike the roman catholic church which says take it by faith. fortunatly i wasnt raped by some priest and yes i was an alter boy!! i dont know what your friends experiences with the way are but he either likes what he hears and comes or he doesnt. you dont join and there is no membership,you just come and here the bible once or twice a week or whenever for about an hour.its really up to the individual to STUDY the bible own there own at home or wherever. my question is what kind of an intellegent person would go to the roman catholic church? my dad for one ,he was a baptist a long time ago and a few years back started going to the rc . hes never ben to a way fellowship, and probably never will , i'm still shocked the he even goes to a church cause he didnt go for over 30 years. you say your friend is a good person, well thats part of living according to GODS word. GODS word teaches you HOW to be a good person,YOU have to do it ,GOD will not do it for you and i am certainally not gonna follow someone around and do it for them, i got enough things to do like work on my hot rod car,practice my drums,type this sort of stuff on my computer,drink coffee,talk on the phone ,go to the movies to see iron man,etc,etc. as far as reaching the maturation of my faculties well i'v ben playing drums over 35 years i'm 50 now and like what the late great drummer buddy rich said not long before he died i'm still learning to play the drums,and i'm still learning GODS word and HOW to apply it in my life. there were some very bad times in the way brought about by corrupt ,mean ,self serving,ego headed, only care about themselves,people that were in leadership positions but they are long gone. this ministry has changed so much in the last 7 years you could call it a DIFFERENT ministry. we will not tolerate ANY who is corrupt. they will be thrown out. people didnt speak up before and as it says in the book of peter in the bible there shall be false ministers that shall come in among you, we keep a watchful eye these days and we will never allow that again. i come for the bible that is taught. there are other groups that teach the bible also but the way is where i go. go with your friend and check it out for yourself.
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jen-o
well... if you don't "join" and become a "member", then how is it that a person can be kicked out??
you have to belong to something before you can get kicked out of it...
in other words, you can't get kicked out of something you never "joined" in the first place...
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anotherDan
I didn't join before I reached the "maturation of [my] faculties." I started in '73, left in '89.
Still trying to reach that maturation point. Then, and not until then, will I consider joining anything.
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