I had never heard of her but picked up some of her tapes at a garage sale and googled her name. There was a lot of trash talking, etc. and then some good things. I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of her. It just kinda reminded me of how people talk about VPW.
To me, it's just another "ministry", as in "business". This is a money-making venture that simply sells a non-tangible product.
"Prime-time religion" as it's been called.
Personally, I don't find a whole bunch of difference between televangelists and any other confidence racket. Hell, religion in general really provides NOTHING, but asks for a helluva lot. And they do it all without paying any taxes! Remarkable! What conman WOULDN'T want in on that game?
So, if you've got zero integrity and wanta make a whole bunch of dough, I recommend getting into the religion business. Manufacture nothing, honor NO guarantees, have no set schedule, just provide an extensive "customer service" department that makes a lot of empty promises and gives out a bunch of feel-good aphorisms, and you're set. Learn a few lines, "God loves you sooooo much!", "You're a really great person, even if everyone in the world thinks you're a jerk", "All of your cares in life will all be taken care of if you just trust God enough to send me all your money", and it wouldn't hurt to try to get some sort of unique "hook" so as to set yourself apart from all the other schemers in the same trade.
Oh, and repeat after me "God is soooo goood!" Un uhhh...
Yet Another Song-and-Dance, Hide behind the Name of God as an Excuse, Anti-Wall of Separation Between Church and State, ... Bloodsucker.
I think that might be a tad excessive Garth.
I have listened to Joyce several times. Joyce Meyers resonates with people because she challenges people to plug themselves in, on a personal level. She really doesnt seem to at all attempt to control people. Joyce is a very positive person, she looks for reasons people should succeed, instead of gloating in the past. She is Oprah Winfrey like in communcating well with people of different stripes. In the times I have listened to Joyce, (more than a handful) I don't recall her anyone time degrading, critizing or berating unbelievers or those who disapprove of Christianity. Neither do I ever recall her at one time politicizing her message. (Thus I think the Anti-Wall of Seperation clause is incorrect) In the times I have listened to Joyce, I dont recall her making appeals for money.
I think Joyce is a pretty cool cup of coffee. Oh, and as for the weblink knocking her financial gains, it looks like pretty standard protocol these days to rip anyone who is successful financially in preaching. I dont see the big deal. Nobody knocks CEO's or other organization leaders, who need to move around a lots with security, but preachers arent entitled to it right? thats hogwash and BS
If people of non-faith want to criticize someone, pick on the ones who politicize their message, because they want to make those kind of argrments. But picking on Joyce Meyers who has never said a bad thing towards people of non-faith? GET A LIFE!
I like and respect Joyce Meyers. I have only heard a few teachings, but they resonated with me. I know that she has had some adversity in her life. I think that is maybe why people can identify with her. She seems pretty straight forward and honest to me.
I deleted my comments on this topic because after reading some other stuff on Meyers, I think I need to study what she is doing more before commenting.
When I was still thick with way-brain, I liked Joyce's teachings and would watch her on tv or listen to her radio show. The more way-brain I eliminated, the more TWI-ish her teachings seemed to me and the less I was able to listen to them.
Dottie Moynihan actually gave me one of Joyce's books, Battlefield of the Mind. If that title doesn't tell you that it's about "renewing your mind", then I will. It's very TWI-like. BUT, since Dottie gave it to me, it gave me license to go to "outside" sources for information which had been previously forbidden by my ex.
I can see where the draw is, but she no longer does anything for me. These portions from that link are disturbing:
****************************
And today, her TV shows, regional conferences and fund raising from her Web site bring an average $8 million a month to her ministry. Of that, the ministry says it spends about 10 percent -- $880,000 a month -- on charitable works around the globe.
My comment: That's IT?? That's ALL they spend out of $8 million/month?!?!
Dec, 31, 2001 - With the deadline looming, Life in the Word pays Jefferson County $288,177 for its 2001 property taxes at 700 Grace Parkway under protest.
March 27, 2002 - Life in the Word sues Jefferson County Assessor Randy B. Holman for their taxes on its headquarters. Meyer claims the ministry should be tax exempt as a church. Holman had decided it did not meet the state law because the headquarters building did not hold church services or allow the public inside.
July 24, 2002 - The Jefferson County Board of Equalization rules against the county assessor on Meyer's appeal of her 2002 property taxes on the ministry's headquarters building. The property is stripped from the tax rolls, causing a public outcry from taxpayers, who must pay more in taxes.
Oct. 8, 2002 - The Anti-Defamation League accuses Meyer's Rage Against Destruction, a program that goes into schools with a musical presentation, is really a front for a Christian evangelical group that wants to convert students.
Oct. 11 and 12, 2002 - Joyce Meyer speaks as the keynote speaker at the Christian Coalition's Road to Victory 2002 convention held at the Washington Convention Center in Washington D.C. She condemns the separation of church and state.
April 25, 2003 - Instead of giving the county access to its records and property, Life in the Word drops its lawsuit against the Jefferson County assessor for the headquarters' property taxes.
June 6, 2003 - MinistryWatch, a watchdog group that looks at ministries and churches to determine whether they are using their money for charitable purposes, gives Life In the Word/Joyce Meyer Ministries an "F" rating for not divulging their financial picture.
Excerpt from News article....
In an audiotape series called "How to Fight the Devil and Win," Meyer recalled how she read a book on freeing people from demons. She saw the book as a revelation from God and began what she called a "deliverance ministry," much of it out of the family’s home on Codorniz Lane in Fenton.
...
She said she got on people’s backs and rode them "all over the house, with these demons of anger and fear and violence ... you know our kids are back there sleeping and we’re in the living room screaming at demons half the night.
"I mean one woman came to my house, and me and my pastor (Shelton) literally rode her piggyback all over my house.
"She threw up in every towel I had. She spit all over us. Rick had to get his tie off. He had to get his jewelry off. Sweat was pouring off of both of us."
In a recent interview, Meyer said she understands how some people might consider such activity "goofy." She said she is no longer involved in such work.
I deleted my comments on this topic to you and Garth. Some of this stuff does look a tad unusual, thus I think unless I studied her more I should not have commented.
Even tho I have heard her several times, I am going to check her out further before issuing anymore commentary.
I think ministers should be open about there finances, and if she is not, (I am not sure wether) perhaps there could be problems here so I will withhold my view.
"Belle, this is a new kind of attack. I have never heard that if tax-exempt property of any religious organization, had to have services held to qualify. Is this some liberal guys pet project, to attack Christian organizations?" Quote
This is not a new requirement. This is why TWI had to have weekend activities at Emporia prior to selling it( early ninties), when it was essentially empty. This probably why the Sunday Services at HQ are mandatory for the neighboring Way folk, and why there are a few activities at Gunnison..
If all you have are administrative buildings and a traveling speaker, you are not a church, and the if the administrative duties revolve around marketing the traveling speaker, you are not a church. Many pagan groups do not have tax free status because they do not own property that is used for services.
I think I might be wrong then about Joyce Meyers. If so I will apolgize to Garth and Belle.
Its really a bit amazing to me Bramble and I will tell you why. I have heard bits and pieces of her messages of probably 15 or so, when someone else had her tuned in. she talks a lot.
But I reviewed one thing that was a bit disturbing. She was teaching a message on tithing from Ephesians , and about how God had brought her through trials, and she kept tithing and after the fire God increased and increased.
I think its inapprobriate to talk about tithing as a doctrine, if you husband has a 100 grand car, and your house compound is that luzurious. I was not aware, that Joyce Meyers was doing this. Thus, on this basis , things do not look entirely approbriate. The one thing that is very distrubing, is the comments about lack of disclosure of the finances by the one independent monitoring agency. Ministers ought to have some accountability in this regard and if she doesnt (I am not sure) Yeah, I think Belle and others are right, this is not good.
I apologize, I am not usually that sloppy in viewing people and commenting.
BTW Bramble, I was not aware of that stipulation about tax-exempt organizations, thank you. :)
Its hard for me Bramble, too see some of these people that I thought were better than that in there behavior doing such things.
To me, it's just another "ministry", as in "business". This is a money-making venture that simply sells a non-tangible product.
"Prime-time religion" as it's been called.
Personally, I don't find a whole bunch of difference between televangelists and any other confidence racket. Hell, religion in general really provides NOTHING, but asks for a helluva lot. And they do it all without paying any taxes! Remarkable! What conman WOULDN'T want in on that game?
So, if you've got zero integrity and wanta make a whole bunch of dough, I recommend getting into the religion business. Manufacture nothing, honor NO guarantees, have no set schedule, just provide an extensive "customer service" department that makes a lot of empty promises and gives out a bunch of feel-good aphorisms, and you're set. Learn a few lines, "God loves you sooooo much!", "You're a really great person, even if everyone in the world thinks you're a jerk", "All of your cares in life will all be taken care of if you just trust God enough to send me all your money", and it wouldn't hurt to try to get some sort of unique "hook" so as to set yourself apart from all the other schemers in the same trade.
Oh, and repeat after me "God is soooo goood!" Un uhhh...
Sounds to me like you need to get in touch with King Jesus Himself, and if you are in Covenant with Him, under His blood, you will soon find out what that saying means..."God is sooooo gooood!" Amen! Hallelujah!
Yet Another Song-and-Dance, Hide behind the Name of God as an Excuse, Anti-Wall of Separation Between Church and State, ... Bloodsucker.
And so sad that so many people just shut their brains off and give her whatever she wants. And that is what makes her ministry so rich.
Well, Hello Garth. Haven't seen you since Waydale days. I do believe you're even more negative than you were at WayDale. But good to see you're still alive and kicking.
I think if someone is REALLY into helping others, they would certainly live above reproach and have a completely transparent "ministry".
I'm not saying ministers should live like paupers, but they certainly don't need live like rock stars and professional athletes. I'd reconsider how much I'm charging for things if I've got THAT MUCH disposable income. Maybe she should be giving away books or offering speaking engagements for free IF her true motive is to help people and to bring them to Christ.
You just don't hear stories like this about Billy Graham. That ought to say something about a person's true motives:
Graham has been careful to receive reasonable compensation far below what other television evangelists would later receive. Graham, along with his associates that he called the "Team," created in 1948 what one of them called, "The Modesto Manifesto," because they produced it in Modesto, California. They decided among themselves to avoid certain problems that gave evangelists a bad name. The first item on the list was a matter of money, to which Graham was sensitive, because of the practices of some unscrupulous evangelists. (The "manifesto" proceeded to note the dangers of sexual immorality, criticism of local churches, and exaggerated publicity.)
Tell ya what. Why don't you tell that to the IRS, ok?
Reread that article that Outfield posted, and you'll see why folks like George and I post what we do.
I read it or rather looked at the flow charts provided. The IRS may frown on it, but it is not illegal. As any good accountant will tell you (and this applies to secular businesses) "it is not illegal to AVOID paying taxes, only if you EVADE paying them. A NFP won't even come up on the IRS crosshairs until they start bringing in $100K per year at which time they must begin filing 1090's and declaring what they bring. So, if you are a qualifying church with active services on a regular basis and are tax exempt because of it, again why should the church apologize. Secular businesses AVOID paying taxes if they can as well. I think most of the shareholders of ENRON stock would have wished they could have looked at the books ahead of the catastrophe and then not just the CEO's etc. could have been allowed to dump their stock into the market as well.
I personally think that churches should be upfront and open to their congregants and adherants as a matter of integrity before the Lord...but to secular jerks? Just try and get a detailed analysis, completely open... of notable businesses and if there's a way to force a legal injunction against your desires, I'd bet they do it...even if it's just as simple as saying you're not a shareholder, etc.
As far as her ministry tithing, hallelujah.
Belle commentedMy comment: That's IT?? That's ALL they spend out of $8 million/month?!?!
Well, let's see, there are salaries to be paid, utilities, if they serve food, then kitchen costs etc. If the ministry owns vehicles, there's fuel, insurance, maintenance (whether they maintain them on grounds or outsource) there's publicity costs, they mfg their own teaching tapes/CD's, there's studio costs unless they have their own, if they do there's equipment costs for that, plus they might have health/life insurance for their employees and I'm sure the lists could go on and on, such as internet charges, telephone charges, it's not cheap to have 800 #'s for people to call in their prayers etc. etc.
So the fact that they give $880K per month....HALLELUJAH! This means lesser ministries are being provided for in the Lord's economy!
Please don't knock on ministries that you do not have an inside view of. Since I have a NFP myself, I watch what I do and constantly ask myself, "Will this look all right or would someone question my integrity?
Well, enough. I don't listen to her as much, but it bothers me when people just take back slaps without knowing the whole story. Because you can know this...secular newspapers will always write with their own slant and color whatever with the color they wish to paint with that day.
Ok, so far, unless I'm missing it somewhere, I haven't seen the actual yearly salary for Joyce Myers. I've seen what the ministry brings in and when she asks for money she mandates that the checks be made out to the ministry and not to her personally. SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???
Sounds like a spirit of JEALOUSY to me.
She also uses merchandizing techniques and I ask you what is wrong with that. I do not know of one travelling prophet or smaller evangelist who does not do the same. The only difference between the two is the size of the ministries. When the evangelist/prophet is still small....let's just call it a LOVE OFFERING...however, when they become well known...OH, NOW THEY ARE FLEECING THE FLOCK. Please, get real!
It is always easy to villainize those that are above you. It is always easier to pull down rather than to lift up.
"A middle-aged man wearing worn jeans pulled a wad of $20 bills from his pocket and placed them in an offering envelope. An elderly woman in a wheelchair wrote out a check for $100. "
Has anyone asked the obvious question yet? Maybe she's a rich old bag in a wheelchair??? Just because you sit in a wheelchair does not mean that you are living in a hovel and begging on the streets for your money. I hope you see the slant that this reporter is using??
Well, maybe it is just me....
“Don’t let mutterers stop you in life,” Meyer told them, shaking her fist in the air. “People are jealous, critical. They’re resentful. Most people want what you get but they don’t want to do what you did to get it.”
I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SAY ALMOST THE IDENTICAL THING!
"Granville said he’s heard the criticism of evangelists like Meyer: They live the high life while many of those who support them live at or near poverty."
BRIDE - "Assertions do not make the point! Could I please see Census Bureau reports for these statements??
“That’s between them and God,” Granville said. “If they’re getting the word of God out, why should they ride around in a 1980 Pinto? Is Joyce Meyer supposed to come out here in Salvation Army clothes or patched-up jeans?”
Meyer wears nothing but the best. Her clothes are tailor-made. She has a private hairdresser. Her nails are perfect. She wears glasslike slippers and dangly earrings and sparkly necklaces.
BRIDE - If you can afford to go to Sacs...would you go to the Salvation Army...I THINK NOT!
Her workers back in St. Louis pack the things she needs at the conference. Perrier water is a must.
BRIDE - "I carry my own water too. Oh, MY GOD...I have an undersink purifier...better get rid of that before I get criticized as well. So, she prefers a particular BRAND NAME....What is the BIG DEAL????
I buy certain brand names too, and I bet you do too!
"It takes four 18-wheelers to carry her products and stage setup from St. Louis to each conference.
On the road, Meyer and her husband live in exclusive hotels."
BRIDE - Sounds cost efficient to me...can you imagine what the postage would be like??
In Detroit, they stayed in a suite in the Townsend in Birmingham, Mich., the area’s richest suburb. The Townsend houses movie and rock stars when they appear locally. Privacy protection is the hotel’s hallmark, and it prides itself on its “discreet” handling of each guest. Suites cost about $1,500 a night."
BRIDE - Again, if you can afford it, you would too. Joyce is supposed to go down to "RENT-A-BOX" and sleep in the ghetto?
OH, PLEASE! No one here on this forum would do that, unless you are forced to, so why knock her about.
Why? Because she happens to be a minister? Even Jesus had an accountant (not too honest), but The Lord still had one! Bet He rode the best mule, too? Want to knock HIM? Be my guest!
Belle so kindly found Billy Graham's flow chart or whatever you call those wheels...Belle, could you find one for Joyce's personal salary? That would be very helpful if you could. Let's compare apples to apples. $400K for Billy is nothing to sneeze at either.
I am not personally a name-it-claim-it adherant. I do believe in tithing/supporting the works of the Lord. But I let the Lord tell me where I should give my money. When I was still in some churches, their theology was to give the tithing to them and any offerings/gifts were over and above 10% I do not buy this theology in particular. I do believe in supporting the church of your choice because there are costs to the upkeep of a ministry. But I let the HS give to me the %'s that I give to various ministries.
If that one guy was "giving" to get material wealth...HE WAS GIVING FOR THE WRONG REASONS! I'm sure his marriage had other problems besides giving to Myers.
"T.D.Jakes
Headquarters: Dallas
Reach: Jakes' "The Potter's House" TV program is seen throughout the world on TBN and Black Entertainment Television. His ministry boasts more than 26,000 members. A rally at the Georgia Dome in 1999 drew more than 100,000 people.
Wealth: He has mansions in Charleston, W.Va., and Dallas."
BRIDE - And I suppose that these reporters are living on skid row?
I think if someone is REALLY into helping others, they would certainly live above reproach and have a completely transparent "ministry".
I'm not saying ministers should live like paupers, but they certainly don't need live like rock stars and professional athletes. I'd reconsider how much I'm charging for things if I've got THAT MUCH disposable income. Maybe she should be giving away books or offering speaking engagements for free IF her true motive is to help people and to bring them to Christ.
Belle: I agree. You and Bramble are correct. Garths comments have merit also. I apoleeeeergize.
It's distaseful and wrong. Its stunning a bit, because I listened to mostly sound bites and peices while others had her tuned in. I thought I had a good fix on her and I didn't Come to think of it, she is a tad demanding.
Anyway, I certainly will put her under the micoscope in the future. I think she has earned that.
Belle did you know that a cat, never makes the same mistake twice? I try to learn from them in that. Yeah, I will be listening to these people a little closer than I was for the real message.
Well, Hello Garth. Haven't seen you since Waydale days. I do believe you're even more negative than you were at WayDale. But good to see you're still alive and kicking.
:wub: I wuv you too.
Non-bulls**t translation of 'More negative' = more challenging of concepts that you have pledged absolute allegience too. ... Right? ;)
I personally think that churches should be upfront and open to their congregants and adherants as a matter of integrity before the Lord...but to secular jerks?
Not only to us 'secular jerks' <_< , but also to all those to whom the church/organization wants to actually convince that said church/organization is so on the up-and-up and honest and all, thereby showing the world that their god is morally superior to all others, ... and that's where all these supposed morally superior churches/organizations fail!
Re: Avoid paying taxes <-> Evade paying taxes.
Now THAT legal 'hair splitting' is so RICH. ..... And some people wonder why the legal profession is held in such ill regard!
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Larry N Moore
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GarthP2000
Yet Another Song-and-Dance, Hide behind the Name of God as an Excuse, Anti-Wall of Separation Between Church and State, ... Bloodsucker.
And so sad that so many people just shut their brains off and give her whatever she wants. And that is what makes her ministry so rich.
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brideofjc
I hope this is not a bid for trashing Joyce Meyers!
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Outfield
I had never heard of her but picked up some of her tapes at a garage sale and googled her name. There was a lot of trash talking, etc. and then some good things. I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of her. It just kinda reminded me of how people talk about VPW.
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George Aar
To me, it's just another "ministry", as in "business". This is a money-making venture that simply sells a non-tangible product.
"Prime-time religion" as it's been called.
Personally, I don't find a whole bunch of difference between televangelists and any other confidence racket. Hell, religion in general really provides NOTHING, but asks for a helluva lot. And they do it all without paying any taxes! Remarkable! What conman WOULDN'T want in on that game?
So, if you've got zero integrity and wanta make a whole bunch of dough, I recommend getting into the religion business. Manufacture nothing, honor NO guarantees, have no set schedule, just provide an extensive "customer service" department that makes a lot of empty promises and gives out a bunch of feel-good aphorisms, and you're set. Learn a few lines, "God loves you sooooo much!", "You're a really great person, even if everyone in the world thinks you're a jerk", "All of your cares in life will all be taken care of if you just trust God enough to send me all your money", and it wouldn't hurt to try to get some sort of unique "hook" so as to set yourself apart from all the other schemers in the same trade.
Oh, and repeat after me "God is soooo goood!" Un uhhh...
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sky4it
I think that might be a tad excessive Garth.
I have listened to Joyce several times. Joyce Meyers resonates with people because she challenges people to plug themselves in, on a personal level. She really doesnt seem to at all attempt to control people. Joyce is a very positive person, she looks for reasons people should succeed, instead of gloating in the past. She is Oprah Winfrey like in communcating well with people of different stripes. In the times I have listened to Joyce, (more than a handful) I don't recall her anyone time degrading, critizing or berating unbelievers or those who disapprove of Christianity. Neither do I ever recall her at one time politicizing her message. (Thus I think the Anti-Wall of Seperation clause is incorrect) In the times I have listened to Joyce, I dont recall her making appeals for money.
I think Joyce is a pretty cool cup of coffee. Oh, and as for the weblink knocking her financial gains, it looks like pretty standard protocol these days to rip anyone who is successful financially in preaching. I dont see the big deal. Nobody knocks CEO's or other organization leaders, who need to move around a lots with security, but preachers arent entitled to it right? thats hogwash and BS
If people of non-faith want to criticize someone, pick on the ones who politicize their message, because they want to make those kind of argrments. But picking on Joyce Meyers who has never said a bad thing towards people of non-faith? GET A LIFE!
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GarthP2000
Tell ya what. Why don't you tell that to the IRS, ok?
Reread that article that Outfield posted, and you'll see why folks like George and I post what we do.
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rascal
I like and respect Joyce Meyers. I have only heard a few teachings, but they resonated with me. I know that she has had some adversity in her life. I think that is maybe why people can identify with her. She seems pretty straight forward and honest to me.
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sirguessalot
in the fields of ego development and such
its quite perfectly natural for one who has left a mythic stage to get "a hit" out of pointing out the flaws of a mythic stage
the mythic stage has A LOT of flaws
which also points to the limits of rational stage, and illustrates the next lesson to be learned by the rational stage
which then brings us to the pluralist stage...where the "everyone has got their own unique valid point of view" is taken quite seriously
thank God that is not the last stage, either
in fact...thank God there seems to be no final stage
jacob's ladder just keeps going and going and going
heaven gets higher and higher
and hell gets deeper and deeper
...
and yeah...i have heard of Joyce Meyers...and have spent a little time looking into her ministeries
and i think if she were also able and willing to talk WITH non-Christian leaders about God
i would put her in the category of being Christlike
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sky4it
Garth:
I deleted my comments on this topic because after reading some other stuff on Meyers, I think I need to study what she is doing more before commenting.
Regards
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Belle
When I was still thick with way-brain, I liked Joyce's teachings and would watch her on tv or listen to her radio show. The more way-brain I eliminated, the more TWI-ish her teachings seemed to me and the less I was able to listen to them.
Dottie Moynihan actually gave me one of Joyce's books, Battlefield of the Mind. If that title doesn't tell you that it's about "renewing your mind", then I will. It's very TWI-like. BUT, since Dottie gave it to me, it gave me license to go to "outside" sources for information which had been previously forbidden by my ex.
I can see where the draw is, but she no longer does anything for me. These portions from that link are disturbing:
****************************
And today, her TV shows, regional conferences and fund raising from her Web site bring an average $8 million a month to her ministry. Of that, the ministry says it spends about 10 percent -- $880,000 a month -- on charitable works around the globe.
My comment: That's IT?? That's ALL they spend out of $8 million/month?!?!
Dec, 31, 2001 - With the deadline looming, Life in the Word pays Jefferson County $288,177 for its 2001 property taxes at 700 Grace Parkway under protest.
March 27, 2002 - Life in the Word sues Jefferson County Assessor Randy B. Holman for their taxes on its headquarters. Meyer claims the ministry should be tax exempt as a church. Holman had decided it did not meet the state law because the headquarters building did not hold church services or allow the public inside.
July 24, 2002 - The Jefferson County Board of Equalization rules against the county assessor on Meyer's appeal of her 2002 property taxes on the ministry's headquarters building. The property is stripped from the tax rolls, causing a public outcry from taxpayers, who must pay more in taxes.
Oct. 8, 2002 - The Anti-Defamation League accuses Meyer's Rage Against Destruction, a program that goes into schools with a musical presentation, is really a front for a Christian evangelical group that wants to convert students.
Oct. 11 and 12, 2002 - Joyce Meyer speaks as the keynote speaker at the Christian Coalition's Road to Victory 2002 convention held at the Washington Convention Center in Washington D.C. She condemns the separation of church and state.
April 25, 2003 - Instead of giving the county access to its records and property, Life in the Word drops its lawsuit against the Jefferson County assessor for the headquarters' property taxes.
June 6, 2003 - MinistryWatch, a watchdog group that looks at ministries and churches to determine whether they are using their money for charitable purposes, gives Life In the Word/Joyce Meyer Ministries an "F" rating for not divulging their financial picture.
Excerpt from News article....
In an audiotape series called "How to Fight the Devil and Win," Meyer recalled how she read a book on freeing people from demons. She saw the book as a revelation from God and began what she called a "deliverance ministry," much of it out of the family’s home on Codorniz Lane in Fenton.
...
She said she got on people’s backs and rode them "all over the house, with these demons of anger and fear and violence ... you know our kids are back there sleeping and we’re in the living room screaming at demons half the night.
"I mean one woman came to my house, and me and my pastor (Shelton) literally rode her piggyback all over my house.
"She threw up in every towel I had. She spit all over us. Rick had to get his tie off. He had to get his jewelry off. Sweat was pouring off of both of us."
In a recent interview, Meyer said she understands how some people might consider such activity "goofy." She said she is no longer involved in such work.
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sky4it
Hey Belle:
I deleted my comments on this topic to you and Garth. Some of this stuff does look a tad unusual, thus I think unless I studied her more I should not have commented.
Even tho I have heard her several times, I am going to check her out further before issuing anymore commentary.
I think ministers should be open about there finances, and if she is not, (I am not sure wether) perhaps there could be problems here so I will withhold my view.
Greetings and Regards
Sky4it
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sky4it
Belle and Garth:
See above comments
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Bramble
"Belle, this is a new kind of attack. I have never heard that if tax-exempt property of any religious organization, had to have services held to qualify. Is this some liberal guys pet project, to attack Christian organizations?" Quote
This is not a new requirement. This is why TWI had to have weekend activities at Emporia prior to selling it( early ninties), when it was essentially empty. This probably why the Sunday Services at HQ are mandatory for the neighboring Way folk, and why there are a few activities at Gunnison..
If all you have are administrative buildings and a traveling speaker, you are not a church, and the if the administrative duties revolve around marketing the traveling speaker, you are not a church. Many pagan groups do not have tax free status because they do not own property that is used for services.
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sky4it
Bramble:
I think I might be wrong then about Joyce Meyers. If so I will apolgize to Garth and Belle.
Its really a bit amazing to me Bramble and I will tell you why. I have heard bits and pieces of her messages of probably 15 or so, when someone else had her tuned in. she talks a lot.
But I reviewed one thing that was a bit disturbing. She was teaching a message on tithing from Ephesians , and about how God had brought her through trials, and she kept tithing and after the fire God increased and increased.
I think its inapprobriate to talk about tithing as a doctrine, if you husband has a 100 grand car, and your house compound is that luzurious. I was not aware, that Joyce Meyers was doing this. Thus, on this basis , things do not look entirely approbriate. The one thing that is very distrubing, is the comments about lack of disclosure of the finances by the one independent monitoring agency. Ministers ought to have some accountability in this regard and if she doesnt (I am not sure) Yeah, I think Belle and others are right, this is not good.
I apologize, I am not usually that sloppy in viewing people and commenting.
BTW Bramble, I was not aware of that stipulation about tax-exempt organizations, thank you. :)
Its hard for me Bramble, too see some of these people that I thought were better than that in there behavior doing such things.
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brideofjc
Sounds to me like you need to get in touch with King Jesus Himself, and if you are in Covenant with Him, under His blood, you will soon find out what that saying means..."God is sooooo gooood!" Amen! Hallelujah!
Well, Hello Garth. Haven't seen you since Waydale days. I do believe you're even more negative than you were at WayDale. But good to see you're still alive and kicking.
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Belle
(((((Sky)))))
I think if someone is REALLY into helping others, they would certainly live above reproach and have a completely transparent "ministry".
I'm not saying ministers should live like paupers, but they certainly don't need live like rock stars and professional athletes. I'd reconsider how much I'm charging for things if I've got THAT MUCH disposable income. Maybe she should be giving away books or offering speaking engagements for free IF her true motive is to help people and to bring them to Christ.
Here's an aerial view of the multi-million dollar compound she has bought with her fleecing of the flock.
You just don't hear stories like this about Billy Graham. That ought to say something about a person's true motives:
This is an awesome link showing what he makes in salary:
President & CEO, Franklin Graham makes only $94,000 (representing only 0.09% of company expenses)
Billy Graham makes $406,830 (0.38% of company expenses)
Very reasonable, imo.
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brideofjc
I read it or rather looked at the flow charts provided. The IRS may frown on it, but it is not illegal. As any good accountant will tell you (and this applies to secular businesses) "it is not illegal to AVOID paying taxes, only if you EVADE paying them. A NFP won't even come up on the IRS crosshairs until they start bringing in $100K per year at which time they must begin filing 1090's and declaring what they bring. So, if you are a qualifying church with active services on a regular basis and are tax exempt because of it, again why should the church apologize. Secular businesses AVOID paying taxes if they can as well. I think most of the shareholders of ENRON stock would have wished they could have looked at the books ahead of the catastrophe and then not just the CEO's etc. could have been allowed to dump their stock into the market as well.
I personally think that churches should be upfront and open to their congregants and adherants as a matter of integrity before the Lord...but to secular jerks? Just try and get a detailed analysis, completely open... of notable businesses and if there's a way to force a legal injunction against your desires, I'd bet they do it...even if it's just as simple as saying you're not a shareholder, etc.
As far as her ministry tithing, hallelujah.
Belle commentedMy comment: That's IT?? That's ALL they spend out of $8 million/month?!?!
Well, let's see, there are salaries to be paid, utilities, if they serve food, then kitchen costs etc. If the ministry owns vehicles, there's fuel, insurance, maintenance (whether they maintain them on grounds or outsource) there's publicity costs, they mfg their own teaching tapes/CD's, there's studio costs unless they have their own, if they do there's equipment costs for that, plus they might have health/life insurance for their employees and I'm sure the lists could go on and on, such as internet charges, telephone charges, it's not cheap to have 800 #'s for people to call in their prayers etc. etc.
So the fact that they give $880K per month....HALLELUJAH! This means lesser ministries are being provided for in the Lord's economy!
Please don't knock on ministries that you do not have an inside view of. Since I have a NFP myself, I watch what I do and constantly ask myself, "Will this look all right or would someone question my integrity?
Well, enough. I don't listen to her as much, but it bothers me when people just take back slaps without knowing the whole story. Because you can know this...secular newspapers will always write with their own slant and color whatever with the color they wish to paint with that day.
Ok, so far, unless I'm missing it somewhere, I haven't seen the actual yearly salary for Joyce Myers. I've seen what the ministry brings in and when she asks for money she mandates that the checks be made out to the ministry and not to her personally. SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???
Sounds like a spirit of JEALOUSY to me.
She also uses merchandizing techniques and I ask you what is wrong with that. I do not know of one travelling prophet or smaller evangelist who does not do the same. The only difference between the two is the size of the ministries. When the evangelist/prophet is still small....let's just call it a LOVE OFFERING...however, when they become well known...OH, NOW THEY ARE FLEECING THE FLOCK. Please, get real!
It is always easy to villainize those that are above you. It is always easier to pull down rather than to lift up.
"A middle-aged man wearing worn jeans pulled a wad of $20 bills from his pocket and placed them in an offering envelope. An elderly woman in a wheelchair wrote out a check for $100. "
Has anyone asked the obvious question yet? Maybe she's a rich old bag in a wheelchair??? Just because you sit in a wheelchair does not mean that you are living in a hovel and begging on the streets for your money. I hope you see the slant that this reporter is using??
Well, maybe it is just me....
“Don’t let mutterers stop you in life,” Meyer told them, shaking her fist in the air. “People are jealous, critical. They’re resentful. Most people want what you get but they don’t want to do what you did to get it.”
I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SAY ALMOST THE IDENTICAL THING!
"Granville said he’s heard the criticism of evangelists like Meyer: They live the high life while many of those who support them live at or near poverty."
BRIDE - "Assertions do not make the point! Could I please see Census Bureau reports for these statements??
“That’s between them and God,” Granville said. “If they’re getting the word of God out, why should they ride around in a 1980 Pinto? Is Joyce Meyer supposed to come out here in Salvation Army clothes or patched-up jeans?”
Meyer wears nothing but the best. Her clothes are tailor-made. She has a private hairdresser. Her nails are perfect. She wears glasslike slippers and dangly earrings and sparkly necklaces.
BRIDE - If you can afford to go to Sacs...would you go to the Salvation Army...I THINK NOT!
Her workers back in St. Louis pack the things she needs at the conference. Perrier water is a must.
BRIDE - "I carry my own water too. Oh, MY GOD...I have an undersink purifier...better get rid of that before I get criticized as well. So, she prefers a particular BRAND NAME....What is the BIG DEAL????
I buy certain brand names too, and I bet you do too!
"It takes four 18-wheelers to carry her products and stage setup from St. Louis to each conference.
On the road, Meyer and her husband live in exclusive hotels."
BRIDE - Sounds cost efficient to me...can you imagine what the postage would be like??
In Detroit, they stayed in a suite in the Townsend in Birmingham, Mich., the area’s richest suburb. The Townsend houses movie and rock stars when they appear locally. Privacy protection is the hotel’s hallmark, and it prides itself on its “discreet” handling of each guest. Suites cost about $1,500 a night."
BRIDE - Again, if you can afford it, you would too. Joyce is supposed to go down to "RENT-A-BOX" and sleep in the ghetto?
OH, PLEASE! No one here on this forum would do that, unless you are forced to, so why knock her about.
Why? Because she happens to be a minister? Even Jesus had an accountant (not too honest), but The Lord still had one! Bet He rode the best mule, too? Want to knock HIM? Be my guest!
Belle so kindly found Billy Graham's flow chart or whatever you call those wheels...Belle, could you find one for Joyce's personal salary? That would be very helpful if you could. Let's compare apples to apples. $400K for Billy is nothing to sneeze at either.
I am not personally a name-it-claim-it adherant. I do believe in tithing/supporting the works of the Lord. But I let the Lord tell me where I should give my money. When I was still in some churches, their theology was to give the tithing to them and any offerings/gifts were over and above 10% I do not buy this theology in particular. I do believe in supporting the church of your choice because there are costs to the upkeep of a ministry. But I let the HS give to me the %'s that I give to various ministries.
If that one guy was "giving" to get material wealth...HE WAS GIVING FOR THE WRONG REASONS! I'm sure his marriage had other problems besides giving to Myers.
"T.D.Jakes
Headquarters: Dallas
Reach: Jakes' "The Potter's House" TV program is seen throughout the world on TBN and Black Entertainment Television. His ministry boasts more than 26,000 members. A rally at the Georgia Dome in 1999 drew more than 100,000 people.
Wealth: He has mansions in Charleston, W.Va., and Dallas."
BRIDE - And I suppose that these reporters are living on skid row?
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bliss
Heard her...............
Had enough of her....................
I can only take so much ''finger pointin''.
I looked under her nails too, and she ain't got no "good'' dirt under there.
I really have a problem with folks that don't practice what they preach.
Beth Moore IMO puts her to shame in the ''humility'' category.
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sky4it
Belle: I agree. You and Bramble are correct. Garths comments have merit also. I apoleeeeergize.
It's distaseful and wrong. Its stunning a bit, because I listened to mostly sound bites and peices while others had her tuned in. I thought I had a good fix on her and I didn't Come to think of it, she is a tad demanding.
Anyway, I certainly will put her under the micoscope in the future. I think she has earned that.
Belle did you know that a cat, never makes the same mistake twice? I try to learn from them in that. Yeah, I will be listening to these people a little closer than I was for the real message.
Thanks
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GarthP2000
BrideofJC,
:wub: I wuv you too.Non-bulls**t translation of 'More negative' = more challenging of concepts that you have pledged absolute allegience too. ... Right? ;)
Not only to us 'secular jerks' <_< , but also to all those to whom the church/organization wants to actually convince that said church/organization is so on the up-and-up and honest and all, thereby showing the world that their god is morally superior to all others, ... and that's where all these supposed morally superior churches/organizations fail!
Re: Avoid paying taxes <-> Evade paying taxes.
Now THAT legal 'hair splitting' is so RICH. ..... And some people wonder why the legal profession is held in such ill regard! 
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sky4it
LMAO Garth,
Hey Garth, I was wrong on Joycey Meyers aren't you going to rub it in a little or better yet a lot?
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GarthP2000
Nahh. I figured you learned on your own, grasshopper.
Besides, BrideofJC wants to be my toy now.
...
...... Hhmmmm, maybe I need to rephrase that.
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