The thing is that the "moves" are made simultaneously.
There is no hesitation once "it's" recognized. It being, knowing what to do or say.
Unless there is something in the way, like fear or selfishness...mainly.
And care for those involved.
There is no reaching up to daddy's cookie jar or waiting for rev.
You are the Jar containing God. The flesh only houses it, but does restrict it a bit.
Practicing being dead to the flesh increases spiritual awareness.
The predetermined time is always now-forever.
Any way the point of the thread is that it is not us but God who is doing.
And has already done.
And it is his timing along with removing barriers that unlocks the spiritual eyes.
Which really means we begin to see more and more what has been done and what is being done.
The written word of God is our teacher and schoolmaster. Some do graduate, but the heart of the word is now theirs. The bible was never meant to be a rule book or check point, but a starting place or launching pad. As well as other things are besides the bible.
It's narrow-minded to think one needs to know the bible to know God. Though I'm certainly not against knowing what it says, I am for learning more of it's meaning as it comes together in the heart by the Spirit. Which without the Spirit it will not yield it's fruit.
The Word of God is alive not words written on paper but real and living and now. Though we can and do talk about it for sure. How else could we hear what we need to hear?
cman, I like that... I am the cookie jar. we are earthen vessels after all.
isn't being dead to the flesh a synonym for keeping your parts in balance? then we don't neglect our mortal part but don't let it overwhelm our spiritual part so that by being hungry or proud we forget God. I don't think flesh restricts our spiritual part since it's part of us. I think it can work perfectly because it's cookie jar sized spirit.
You see all 36 definitions as relevant to your post?
Or was that meant to camouflage the shortness of the reply?
Or was there another reason?
Nope not at all just being inclusive you can pick your choice of the applicable ones, the point I guess that you missed is that none of them have time as a factor in moving. One does not need a long reply unless you are trying to dodge the obvious. I thought if I kept it short you might see that to "advance ,take action,progress" is movement without any time requirements involved, as opposed to setup as you defined it.
You see all 36 definitions as relevant to your post?
Or was that meant to camouflage the shortness of the reply?
Or was there another reason?
Nope not at all just being inclusive you can pick your choice of the applicable ones, the point I guess that you missed is that none of them have time as a factor in moving.
No one said they did. However, human lifetimes DO have time as a factor.
Feel free to disagree on conclusions, but pretending to not see points you don't like is a bit silly.
One does not need a long reply unless you are trying to dodge the obvious.
Ooo, invoked the "long post=wrong post" fallacy, I am impaled!
You've sure convinced the home audience there!
:blink:
I thought if I kept it short you might see that to "advance ,take action,progress" is movement without any time requirements involved, as opposed to setup as you defined it.
Not without actually stating your point, rather than just cutting and pasting a big block of text and hoping
it would do your job FOR you. If you'd said that WITH the big block, it would have made some sense.
I still would have found it excessive, but it would have made some sense anyway.
For the perspective of any human, the past is prologue. Technicalities are interesting, but irrelevant to
the average person living their life. A philosopher or sophist, of course, could argue otherwise for months.
The original post implied that we took the lead in moving, that's BS ,long before we even thought of moving God was moving on our behalf. You want to believe that he was only doing setup and stringing chairs Fine WW the scriptures say otherwise. By definition He moved, and then waited patiently for us to move. There was no time requirement and there is none in which we have to respond either except during the span of our existence. I was never taught that I controlled His movement or that I was to imagine or trick my mind into anything.
The original post implied that we took the lead in moving
Or God would do nothing. It's throughout the class with believing, renewing the mind and manifestations. All of which they knew little to nothing about.
The glory was to the man and not God and they built this into a god that we operate instead of a God that
works in us.
KJV: 2 Pe 1:21
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Or God would do nothing. It's throughout the class with believing, renewing the mind and manifestations. All of which they knew little to nothing about.
The glory was to the man and not God and they built this into a god that we operate instead of a God that
works in us.
KJV: 2 Pe 1:21
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
I agree It is throughout the class, and all possible not because we invented it but because God made the first move in providing it.
"I would think as Christians that we would rely on scripture to show us what to do, as well as letting Him show us what He is doing..." by White Dove
Absolutely right White Dove. That's what I learned too. And I would add, not only what He is doing BUT also what He wants us to do.
Anytime a person is egotistic they will bring the glory back to themselves in some way. It's why Jesus had big problems with the Pharisees, among other reasons.
A good teacher said, "I don't care if it's Jewish or Christian man made tradions (traditions of men). If it goes against written scripture you need to throw them out".
If anyone wants to know exactly HOW to love God and their neighbor according to how God says HE wants us to do it all they have to do is go back and read what He says about it - in the Old Testament "Law" (which is the Hebrew word Torah = instructions). i.e God's traditions!
In the Hebrew language the words HEAR and OBEY are the same words. What are we supposed to be hearing and obeying? What God told us to do. Where does He tell us what to do and how to do it? Old Testament Law (Torah = Instructions).
All of the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) don't all apply to any one person. God never expects any person to keep all of them. Why? Because they don't even apply to everyone! There are specific laws that apply only to women, men, children, farmers, widows, orphans, merchants, people who live in the land of Israel, people who live in the holy city, the "strangers and foreigners" who are attached to them (the grafted in ones) etc. And there are some that apply to everyone. God only expects us to live the "laws = instructions" that pertain and apply to us.
So where does the confusion come in? Rabbinic Oral Law (traditons of men/man made traditions). Jesus came to do away with the traditions of men that they had attached to God's instructions (law = hebrew word torah) which ARE the Rabbinic Oral Laws. The "Rabbi's (which means 'my great one') would make laws to tell people how to do God's law. God told them to not even call him Rabbi, for there is only one great Rabbi and that is God in heaven.
A good example of rabbinic oral laws: (Different Hebrew rabbinic oral law words: Takanot, Ma'asim, Halachot, Minhagim, Gezerot.) It says to do no work on the Sabbath, the 7th day (Saturday) which God gave us to rest in. The Pharisees made up a list of 39 "laws" telling the people what "no work" meant - along with 100s of sub catagories under those 39. Another example: they made a list of 25-100 laws on how to write EACH letter of the Hebrew alphabet (alef-beit). There are whole libraries of rabbinic oral laws. They made it impossible for God's people to do God's laws (Torah = instructions).
In Deuteronomy 30:11-14 God says:
"For these commandments which I command you to do are not too difficult for you to do, nor are they out of your reach.
They are not in heaven that you should say, "Who shall go up to heaven to get them for us and make us hear them that we may observe them". Neither are they beyond the sea that you should say "Who shall go over the sea for us and bring them to us so that we may hear them and and do them?
But the word is very near to you, it is in your mouth and your heart so that you may do it."
What scripture did Jesus preach? The New Testament? No, he taught and preached the scripture he was raised with - the Old Testament scriptures! It's a wise person who knows the scriptures Jesus kept and taught. Jesus came to do away with the rabbinic oral law, not God's law (torah = instructions).
King James Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill".
Aramaic Pedangta Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to loosen the law or the Prophets; I did not come to loosen the law but I came to put it on a firm foundation".
The people, by trying to do the traditions of men the rabbi's and Pharisees attached to the commandments God gave them, had gotten so far from God's truth that Jesus came to put God's (law) torah - instructions") back on a firm foundation. Whose foundation? God's.
Interesting huh? Oh, well I guess you all know what I'm studying now. Thanks for letting me share.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
ProphetS-the spirits of the prophets are subject to other prophets
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
5293 hupotasso { hoop-ot-as’-so}
from 5259 and 5021; TDNT - 8:39,1156; v
AV - put under 6, be subject unto 6, be subject to 5, submit (one’s) self unto 5, submit (one’s) self to 3, be in subjection unto 2, put in subjection under 1, misc 12; 40
GK - 5718 { uJpotavssw }
1) to arrange under, to subordinate
2) to subject, put in subjection
3) to subject one’s self, obey
4) to submit to one’s control
5) to yield to one’s admonition or advice
6) to obey, be subject
A Greek military term meaning “to arrange [troop divisions]in a miliary fashion under the command of a leader”. In non-military use, it was “a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden”.
It's about controling the tongue and not about who is in charge of the spirits.
If you are in charge of it that makes you Lord. And Not the Lord Jesus Christ.
'Where two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst.'
We are to hear one another-'let each prophecy that all may be edified'.
twi is still being used as the standard of spiritual things.
twi was not spiritual but carnal sensual and devilish.
We are to compare spiritual with spiritual. Not Carnal with Spiritual.
Submitting to one another in love. Here is part of that fruit.
This is closer to what is meant then anything twi has come up with.
Grossly misrepresenting my position isn't honest, WD.
If your understanding of "preparation", "prologue" and "setup" is limited to the make-work of twi,
then I suppose you might see it that way, but I expected better of you.
That was not my idea of what God was doing ,your the one who thinks He was doing setup. I was just pointing out what a silly concept it was at least to me anyway, but its a free world you can believe whatever you like.
"He does not move again until YOU move."-vpw.
Right "Again" which means He moved first not that we made Him move.
This isn't too difficult unless one is determined to KEEP it difficult.
WW:
According to vpw, God's moves were centuries ago, millenia ago, even.
Therefore, for all practical purposes, He's not the one who moves NOW.
He moved a long, long time ago,
with the implication that if we don't move, He won't move, at all.
So, to START the ball in our lifetime, WE must move FIRST,
and once we have moved, THEN God moves.
WW:
Actually, it was what you were TAUGHT.
"God has ALREADY moved-in Christ Jesus. Now it is YOUR move."
That is, God already moved in the first century AD, and NOW, it is YOUR turn to move.
Time is VERY relevant, relative to the person experiencing it.
We all "know" the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
We also know that TECHNICALLY, the Earth is moving, and the sun is stable relative to the Earth,
and the Sun ITSELF is not rising and falling.
However, for all PRACTICAL purposes for everyone except Astronomers and Astronauts,
the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
(We're not discussing the Arctic Circle.)
If the moves in a chess match were interrupted for hundreds of years, and one player came to the
table as "player two" for the first time in his life, and the match "resumed" with his move,
he would certainly see HIS move as "the beginning of a match" that began with the board in a set
position. (Don't think there aren't chess matches that don't begin with the board in a set position...)
According to vpw's rule -and it WAS a rule he said LOTS OF TIMES-
God's move was hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
In YOUR lifetime, the first move is the move YOU perform,
after which God will move (AGAIN, but for all your experience, it is God's "first move" in your life.)
So, a Christian applying vpw's rule would say the first move of the game was HIS OWN move,
and all previous moves were setup, before he ever was born.
"Splitting hairs" to say that he should redefine things so that a God who hasn't acted in the Christian's
lifetime, his father's lifetime, his father's father's lifetime, his father's father's father's lifetime,
and so on,
has acted "first", to me,
to require unnecessary mental gymnastics on the part of the Christian.
He arrived. The conditions were set centuries before. He acted. THEN God was seen to act.
To require him to say otherwise just to legitimize a vpw doctrine is silly.
WD responded to
"If the moves in a chess match were interrupted for hundreds of years, and one player came to the
table as "player two" for the first time in his life, and the match "resumed" with his move,
he would certainly see HIS move as "the beginning of a match" that began with the board in a set
position. (Don't think there aren't chess matches that don't begin with the board in a set position...)"
noting that some matches BEGIN WITH THE BOARD IN A SET POSITION with a determination to see
that the board not being in the start position as THE sign that the match isn't beginning.
WD
No he wouldn't he would see his move as another move in a game in progress due to the fact that there was a previous move on the board which one would note by the fact that the board was not in the start position.
WD also sees the term "setup" only confined to the limited uses of twi.
Me, I would see the acts of creation as "setup" of one type, obviously WD would not.
When I speak of God acting long before a human was born as "setup", WD keeps reading
that as "God strung chairs before the person was born."
someone else, but WW made it sound like it was me:
The Way taught us to do and then God would do.
I do not think this is true at all.
WD:
The original post implied that we took the lead in moving, that's BS ,long before we even thought of moving God was moving on our behalf. You want to believe that he was only doing setup and stringing chairs Fine WW the scriptures say otherwise. By definition He moved, and then waited patiently for us to move. There was no time requirement and there is none in which we have to respond either except during the span of our existence. I was never taught that I controlled His movement or that I was to imagine or trick my mind into anything.
WW:
"He does not move again until YOU move."-vpw.
Maybe you were never present when vpw taught this, but he did teach this, quite a bit.
Or do you believe that God only moving once YOU do has nothing to do with YOUR actions affecting His?
WW:
"stringing chairs"?
Grossly misrepresenting my position isn't honest, WD.
If your understanding of "preparation", "prologue" and "setup" is limited to the make-work of twi,
then I suppose you might see it that way, but I expected better of you.
WD:
hat was not my idea of what God was doing ,your the one who thinks He was doing setup. I was just pointing out what a silly concept it was at least to me anyway, but its a free world you can believe whatever you like.
WD seems determined to translate my words and add "stringing chairs" to them.
Dishonest, but what can one do?
Furthermore, he's made my point FOR me, and still can't see it....
"God has ALREADY moved-in Christ Jesus.
He does not move again until YOU move."-vpw.
[WD:
Right "Again" which means He moved first not that we made Him move.
This demonstrated 2 things:
1) God's "moves" were described as done nearly 2000 years ago-long before our lives.
Relative to our lives, God's moves were prologue, preparation, setup.
(Without any of the "stringing chair" fixation of anyone's.)
God then CEASED acting nearly 2000 years ago.
That was the point I was making, which WD reluctantly confirmed.
2) God's next move was ENTIRELY DEPENDENT upon OUR moving.
If we did not move, God did not move in our lifetime.
If we did move, THEN God would move.
That means, for any practical usage, that WE take the lead in moving.
We move, action happens, we do not move, no action happens. Action is entirely dependent
upon our moving. This is not a difficult concept-
unless one is determined not to see it.
That was someone else's point- cman's, I think-
which WD is determined not to agree with no matter WHAT his own posts say.
I can't change that, which is a shame, since WD's smart enough to see all of this if he wishes.
1) God's "moves" were described as done nearly 2000 years ago-long before our lives.
Relative to our lives, God's moves were prologue, preparation, setup.
(Without any of the "stringing chair" fixation of anyone's.)
God then CEASED acting nearly 2000 years ago.
I don't believe his moves were done, you may, nor do I see where they are setup,preparation with the exception maybe of the first part of Genesis. Nor do I believe he ceased in the scripture.
Black holes often are thought of as just endless pits in space and time that destroy everything they pull toward them.
But new findings confirm the reverse is true, too: Black holes can drive extraordinarily powerful winds that push out and force star formation and shape the fate of a galaxy.
reminds me of Job's whirlwind...and of that great empty nest and brooding momma at the beginning of Genesis 1...and how its written that "God has no form"...and how Spirit is invisible...creates light and darkness....and how it is WITHIN God that WE live and move and have our being
there is something about stillness and silence that causes motion and noise...eternally
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cman
The thing is that the "moves" are made simultaneously.
There is no hesitation once "it's" recognized. It being, knowing what to do or say.
Unless there is something in the way, like fear or selfishness...mainly.
And care for those involved.
There is no reaching up to daddy's cookie jar or waiting for rev.
You are the Jar containing God. The flesh only houses it, but does restrict it a bit.
Practicing being dead to the flesh increases spiritual awareness.
The predetermined time is always now-forever.
Any way the point of the thread is that it is not us but God who is doing.
And has already done.
And it is his timing along with removing barriers that unlocks the spiritual eyes.
Which really means we begin to see more and more what has been done and what is being done.
The written word of God is our teacher and schoolmaster. Some do graduate, but the heart of the word is now theirs. The bible was never meant to be a rule book or check point, but a starting place or launching pad. As well as other things are besides the bible.
It's narrow-minded to think one needs to know the bible to know God. Though I'm certainly not against knowing what it says, I am for learning more of it's meaning as it comes together in the heart by the Spirit. Which without the Spirit it will not yield it's fruit.
The Word of God is alive not words written on paper but real and living and now. Though we can and do talk about it for sure. How else could we hear what we need to hear?
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potato
cman, I like that... I am the cookie jar. we are earthen vessels after all.
isn't being dead to the flesh a synonym for keeping your parts in balance? then we don't neglect our mortal part but don't let it overwhelm our spiritual part so that by being hungry or proud we forget God. I don't think flesh restricts our spiritual part since it's part of us. I think it can work perfectly because it's cookie jar sized spirit.
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WhiteDove
quote'WordWolf'
You see all 36 definitions as relevant to your post?
Or was that meant to camouflage the shortness of the reply?
Or was there another reason?
Nope not at all just being inclusive you can pick your choice of the applicable ones, the point I guess that you missed is that none of them have time as a factor in moving. One does not need a long reply unless you are trying to dodge the obvious. I thought if I kept it short you might see that to "advance ,take action,progress" is movement without any time requirements involved, as opposed to setup as you defined it.
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WordWolf
No one said they did. However, human lifetimes DO have time as a factor.
Feel free to disagree on conclusions, but pretending to not see points you don't like is a bit silly.
Ooo, invoked the "long post=wrong post" fallacy, I am impaled!You've sure convinced the home audience there!
:blink:
Not without actually stating your point, rather than just cutting and pasting a big block of text and hoping
it would do your job FOR you. If you'd said that WITH the big block, it would have made some sense.
I still would have found it excessive, but it would have made some sense anyway.
For the perspective of any human, the past is prologue. Technicalities are interesting, but irrelevant to
the average person living their life. A philosopher or sophist, of course, could argue otherwise for months.
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WhiteDove
The original post implied that we took the lead in moving, that's BS ,long before we even thought of moving God was moving on our behalf. You want to believe that he was only doing setup and stringing chairs Fine WW the scriptures say otherwise. By definition He moved, and then waited patiently for us to move. There was no time requirement and there is none in which we have to respond either except during the span of our existence. I was never taught that I controlled His movement or that I was to imagine or trick my mind into anything.
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cman
Or God would do nothing. It's throughout the class with believing, renewing the mind and manifestations. All of which they knew little to nothing about.
The glory was to the man and not God and they built this into a god that we operate instead of a God that
works in us.
KJV: 2 Pe 1:21
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
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WhiteDove
I agree It is throughout the class, and all possible not because we invented it but because God made the first move in providing it.
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cman
That tells me not much about how you think God operates Dove.
twi invented a god that is controlled by the person
that is the subject
Yes God has always provided and provides.
We already have 'it'. I don't know what you mean by 'it'.
You say God moved first, He loved us first before we knew him.
What do you mean by God moved first? What did he do?
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WordWolf
"stringing chairs"?
Grossly misrepresenting my position isn't honest, WD.
If your understanding of "preparation", "prologue" and "setup" is limited to the make-work of twi,
then I suppose you might see it that way, but I expected better of you.
"He does not move again until YOU move."-vpw.
Maybe you were never present when vpw taught this, but he did teach this, quite a bit.
Or do you believe that God only moving once YOU do has nothing to do with YOUR actions affecting His?
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Edi
"I would think as Christians that we would rely on scripture to show us what to do, as well as letting Him show us what He is doing..." by White Dove
Anytime a person is egotistic they will bring the glory back to themselves in some way. It's why Jesus had big problems with the Pharisees, among other reasons.
A good teacher said, "I don't care if it's Jewish or Christian man made tradions (traditions of men). If it goes against written scripture you need to throw them out".
If anyone wants to know exactly HOW to love God and their neighbor according to how God says HE wants us to do it all they have to do is go back and read what He says about it - in the Old Testament "Law" (which is the Hebrew word Torah = instructions). i.e God's traditions!
In the Hebrew language the words HEAR and OBEY are the same words. What are we supposed to be hearing and obeying? What God told us to do. Where does He tell us what to do and how to do it? Old Testament Law (Torah = Instructions).
All of the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) don't all apply to any one person. God never expects any person to keep all of them. Why? Because they don't even apply to everyone! There are specific laws that apply only to women, men, children, farmers, widows, orphans, merchants, people who live in the land of Israel, people who live in the holy city, the "strangers and foreigners" who are attached to them (the grafted in ones) etc. And there are some that apply to everyone. God only expects us to live the "laws = instructions" that pertain and apply to us.
So where does the confusion come in? Rabbinic Oral Law (traditons of men/man made traditions). Jesus came to do away with the traditions of men that they had attached to God's instructions (law = hebrew word torah) which ARE the Rabbinic Oral Laws. The "Rabbi's (which means 'my great one') would make laws to tell people how to do God's law. God told them to not even call him Rabbi, for there is only one great Rabbi and that is God in heaven.
A good example of rabbinic oral laws: (Different Hebrew rabbinic oral law words: Takanot, Ma'asim, Halachot, Minhagim, Gezerot.) It says to do no work on the Sabbath, the 7th day (Saturday) which God gave us to rest in. The Pharisees made up a list of 39 "laws" telling the people what "no work" meant - along with 100s of sub catagories under those 39. Another example: they made a list of 25-100 laws on how to write EACH letter of the Hebrew alphabet (alef-beit). There are whole libraries of rabbinic oral laws. They made it impossible for God's people to do God's laws (Torah = instructions).
In Deuteronomy 30:11-14 God says:
"For these commandments which I command you to do are not too difficult for you to do, nor are they out of your reach.
They are not in heaven that you should say, "Who shall go up to heaven to get them for us and make us hear them that we may observe them". Neither are they beyond the sea that you should say "Who shall go over the sea for us and bring them to us so that we may hear them and and do them?
But the word is very near to you, it is in your mouth and your heart so that you may do it."
What scripture did Jesus preach? The New Testament? No, he taught and preached the scripture he was raised with - the Old Testament scriptures! It's a wise person who knows the scriptures Jesus kept and taught. Jesus came to do away with the rabbinic oral law, not God's law (torah = instructions).
King James Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill".
Aramaic Pedangta Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to loosen the law or the Prophets; I did not come to loosen the law but I came to put it on a firm foundation".
The people, by trying to do the traditions of men the rabbi's and Pharisees attached to the commandments God gave them, had gotten so far from God's truth that Jesus came to put God's (law) torah - instructions") back on a firm foundation. Whose foundation? God's.
Interesting huh? Oh, well I guess you all know what I'm studying now. Thanks for letting me share.
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cman
rely on scripture? which ones? which interpretations?
And don't get me going on "keys".
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Edi
rely on scripture? which ones? which interpretations?
And don't get me going on "keys".
You silly baby - just pick one - God can work through any scripture and any interpretation - don't limit Him!!
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cman
1 Corinthians 14:
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
ProphetS-the spirits of the prophets are subject to other prophets
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
It's about controling the tongue and not about who is in charge of the spirits.
If you are in charge of it that makes you Lord. And Not the Lord Jesus Christ.
'Where two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst.'
We are to hear one another-'let each prophecy that all may be edified'.
twi is still being used as the standard of spiritual things.
twi was not spiritual but carnal sensual and devilish.
We are to compare spiritual with spiritual. Not Carnal with Spiritual.
Submitting to one another in love. Here is part of that fruit.
This is closer to what is meant then anything twi has come up with.
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Edi
Well said cman
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WhiteDove
Right "Again" which means He moved first not that we made Him move.
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cman
Wrong. Except for Wierwielle's fiction god.
When you want to to talk about God moving, let's get specific.
I can hear the wind blowing even now......
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WordWolf
This isn't too difficult unless one is determined to KEEP it difficult.
WW:
WW:WD responded to
"If the moves in a chess match were interrupted for hundreds of years, and one player came to the
table as "player two" for the first time in his life, and the match "resumed" with his move,
he would certainly see HIS move as "the beginning of a match" that began with the board in a set
position. (Don't think there aren't chess matches that don't begin with the board in a set position...)"
noting that some matches BEGIN WITH THE BOARD IN A SET POSITION with a determination to see
that the board not being in the start position as THE sign that the match isn't beginning.
WD
WD also sees the term "setup" only confined to the limited uses of twi.Me, I would see the acts of creation as "setup" of one type, obviously WD would not.
When I speak of God acting long before a human was born as "setup", WD keeps reading
that as "God strung chairs before the person was born."
someone else, but WW made it sound like it was me:
WD:
WW:WW:
WD:WD seems determined to translate my words and add "stringing chairs" to them.
Dishonest, but what can one do?
Furthermore, he's made my point FOR me, and still can't see it....
"God has ALREADY moved-in Christ Jesus.
He does not move again until YOU move."-vpw.
[WD:
This demonstrated 2 things:
1) God's "moves" were described as done nearly 2000 years ago-long before our lives.
Relative to our lives, God's moves were prologue, preparation, setup.
(Without any of the "stringing chair" fixation of anyone's.)
God then CEASED acting nearly 2000 years ago.
That was the point I was making, which WD reluctantly confirmed.
2) God's next move was ENTIRELY DEPENDENT upon OUR moving.
If we did not move, God did not move in our lifetime.
If we did move, THEN God would move.
That means, for any practical usage, that WE take the lead in moving.
We move, action happens, we do not move, no action happens. Action is entirely dependent
upon our moving. This is not a difficult concept-
unless one is determined not to see it.
That was someone else's point- cman's, I think-
which WD is determined not to agree with no matter WHAT his own posts say.
I can't change that, which is a shame, since WD's smart enough to see all of this if he wishes.
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cman
WordWolf, this is what I believe to be false and false teachings.
I expect you see that, I don't know,
can't tell what you think i'm saying.
Though I'm fairly certain you do..
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WordWolf
I think we're all agreeing that this is false.
Where we're disagreeing is where WD keeps saying "vpw didn't teach this",
which means vpw doesn't get the blame for another doctrine of ERROR that he taught.
That's where all the creative reinterpretation and chair stringing has been coming in.
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cman
Thanks for clarifying, I get lost on these prolonged discussions sometimes.
And loose track of who is thinking what...:):):)
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WhiteDove
1) God's "moves" were described as done nearly 2000 years ago-long before our lives.
Relative to our lives, God's moves were prologue, preparation, setup.
(Without any of the "stringing chair" fixation of anyone's.)
God then CEASED acting nearly 2000 years ago.
I don't believe his moves were done, you may, nor do I see where they are setup,preparation with the exception maybe of the first part of Genesis. Nor do I believe he ceased in the scripture.
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waysider
Is this what we're looking for?
Session #10/ page 52 in syllabus.
re: SIT & TIP
"People have for years erroneously waited for God to push them off the so-called "eagle's rim."
NO! NO! NO! NEVER.
You have the gift, the ability.
It has been given you by God, so you do it.
You give the interpretation.
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cman
If you are speaking of Genesis and God moving. It is the record of life. Every life. Always.
The beginning of it. It's not about the world as in the ground and sky, it is about being born.
7 is the coolest number in the bible.
Found in Genesis and Revelations-the Alpha and Omega.
Do you know how many days and nights a woman ovalates.
Or the time period in which a woman can get pregnant during the month?
7 days and nights. Or some say 6-7.
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sirguessalot
From this article...
reminds me of Job's whirlwind...and of that great empty nest and brooding momma at the beginning of Genesis 1...and how its written that "God has no form"...and how Spirit is invisible...creates light and darkness....and how it is WITHIN God that WE live and move and have our being
there is something about stillness and silence that causes motion and noise...eternally
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