Someone I studied with told about being at his feet during teachings. They were informal and everyone just gathered around and he shared....I wasn't there...but heard about it.
WS-The "at the foot of the mog" concept was never lived in the corps program.
It was at best imitiated on Wednesday nights when VP or Loy got on the phone and rehashed some work that the research deptment had labored on for them all week. They for the most part had nothing to do with it and took the credit.
Then they would go into a tirade on how some peon had spilled oil from a leaking motor on their new pavement. Funny thing was the mog was driving a new car which they bought on ministry expenses while the poor peon was slaving away on some grounds crew for peanuts.
There were the "After glows"... then we all sat on the floor after Corps Nights in a big room - don't remember the name. The big wigs were always in chairs and we were all on the floor and we'd "share" about what we learned.
Wordwolf's "take" is very good. I was in the 2nd Corps in 1971-73 and VPW was at HQ with us most of the time. Thankfully I missed out on the motorcoach, but we did meet in the Fireplace room in VP's home many times when he'd sit and talk about the problems in the ministry, appeal to our sympathy, and drink drambouie. We also met outside under the trees by his house, sitting on blankets etc. for teachings. The back of the BRC was an informal meeting place, also, as was the dining room, of course, when he'd sit up on the back of his chair and liken his ministry to Paul's. As we all know, the idea was we'd learn his "heart" on how to run the ministry, live the Word, and work like dogs. The book, "The Way: Living in Love" captures a lot of that closed-in atmosphere, only in a pollyanna way - totally idealistic and white-washed propaganda.
What appealed to me (at 19 years old) was the claim that I could learn more of The Word through the Corps experience than anywhere else because I'd learn directly from the man of God for the world! WOW! Starving for "answers," you couldn't keep me out! BTW - the Corps principles were not published until after we were in the Corps. AFTER we were already in the program we found out that Dr. would assign us to wherever he wanted us to go as leaders and workers after graduation. Surprise! But by the time we got that news, I was so idoctrinated that I simply accepted that fate. This was God's ministry, after all...:-)
Penworks, I really appreciate your sharing, its great to hear the perpectives of the very early TWI folk and corps people.
I remember you guys - your corps. I was in high school and VP would send your corps to Columbus. Many of you stayed at my house. Everyone loved my little sister. I think I was too weird - no one knew what to make of me :)
Except, I remember it was a Friday or Sat. night around 1 or 2 a.m. and I was watching roller derby ( don't all teenagers stay up late and sleep in 'till noon? Or was I the exception). Anyway, who comes out but TB, you know him :). He spent a good half hour convincing me I should be in bed and not waste my time with that. He then went back to bed and I finished my show.
Anyway, I saw early on VP's nasty side. I was pretty much able to avoid him in the corps, except, when I was called to his motorcoach and he told me several times, very graphically, the type of sex acts he'd like to perform. Talk about a disconnnect. I left. He pretty much left me alone after that. I also think the corps got way too big for the "sit at the feet of the master" stuff.
When we did sit at his feet, or LCM's up there in that huge room at Emporia, I forget what its called, at the "afterglows" - they would turn the lights down low and we'd all get comfy and fall asleep as they droned on and on and on.
Did you feel you were learning incredible spiritual stuff since you were in daily contact with him in your corps?
Penworks, I really appreciate your sharing, its great to hear the perpectives of the very early TWI folk and corps people.
I remember you guys - your corps. I was in high school and VP would send your corps to Columbus. Many of you stayed at my house. Everyone loved my little sister. I think I was too weird - no one knew what to make of me :)
Except, I remember it was a Friday or Sat. night around 1 or 2 a.m. and I was watching roller derby ( don't all teenagers stay up late and sleep in 'till noon? Or was I the exception). Anyway, who comes out but TB, you know him :). He spent a good half hour convincing me I should be in bed and not waste my time with that. He then went back to bed and I finished my show.
Anyway, I saw early on VP's nasty side. I was pretty much able to avoid him in the corps, except, when I was called to his motorcoach and he told me several times, very graphically, the type of sex acts he'd like to perform. Talk about a disconnnect. I left. He pretty much left me alone after that. I also think the corps got way too big for the "sit at the feet of the master" stuff.
When we did sit at his feet, or LCM's up there in that huge room at Emporia, I forget what its called, at the "afterglows" - they would turn the lights down low and we'd all get comfy and fall asleep as they droned on and on and on.
Did you feel you were learning incredible spiritual stuff since you were in daily contact with him in your corps?
Depends on how you define "spiritual stuff," but viewed through my idealistic rose colored glasses, I thought I was learning how to listen to God (which would be in the spiritual catagory) so I got very sidetracked with thinking God was telling me to do certain things, like who to marry, etc. Saying he got revelation was VPW's method of explaining away his behavior, which to our "five senses" might seem bizarre or mean at times. VP would use that to justify everything from firing leaders on the field who didn't agree with him, to making us clear the fields of rocks so more lawns could grow, etc. He'd always say, "The Father told me to...." How do you argue with that? Like someone once said, "It's like trying to argue with the communists...they always have an answer." At the time, my impression was that this was a spiritual way to live. YIKES! I had absolutley no frame of reference other than comparing spirituality to the way the Sisters of Mercy (ha!) conducted their lives around me when I was in Catholic school. And I for sure didn't want to wind up like them!
Saying he got revelation was VPW's method of explaining away his behavior, which to our "five senses" might seem bizarre or mean at times. VP would use that to justify everything from firing leaders on the field who didn't agree with him, to making us clear the fields of rocks so more lawns could grow, etc. He'd always say, "The Father told me to...." How do you argue with that? Like someone once said, "It's like trying to argue with the communists...they always have an answer." At the time, my impression was that this was a spiritual way to live. YIKES!
I believe that is the perfect example of using the Lords name in vain.
But when you are there it really was like walking in a fog and how do you argue with a comment like that. If you are right...you have just insulted the "boss", if you are wrong you have just insulted the "BOSS". Bottom line is if you wanted to stay you just went with the flow and stayed as deep in the fog as you could...dont get into the sights of the MOG.
I was in FLO for two of Waysider's three years, and I can't remember a single thing I learned, except how to tell baby radishes from baby weeds.
Honest. That was the first thing Mr. Garden liked about me. I could work in a garden.
We did have a Fellow Laborers Night, similar to Corps Night except since we worked secular jobs we couldn't all dress to nines, at least I couldn't since I worked in Columbus and drove directly to Limb. We took classes, too. One of the most entertaining things about Corps Night and classes was watching Mr. Garden try to stay awake. I don't remember much about the book of Acts.
Wasn't there some time or other we were supposed to memorize the first chapter of Ephesians?
Second year was worse, mostly bytch sessions from JM.
Our objectives were similar if not identical to WC. "Acquire an indepth spiritual awareness and perception."
Sitting at the master's feet...never happened by the time I entered the 10th corps. We were cattle being herded from one building to another. Taking classes that we all had taken before, sitting in "study hall" for hours after hour, providing them 4 hours a day of free labor at our assigned jobs...Hunger and exhaustion were the order of the day. The idea was to break down the person and make them glassy eyed and obedient. It was a classic example of "bait and switch"...It was not what they had made it out to be...it was bogus in my opinion...a waste of my time.
Sitting at the Master's Feet reminds me of something....
It was sometime the summer of 1978.....I worked on staff at HQ's, as it was called then. There was a meeting in the BRC, for the 7th Interim Corps I think, can't remember exactly, but for some reason, I always went to those type meetings. It wasn't like there was a huge divide between corps and staff. It was really the kind of thing where I showed up if I could, and wasn't sleeping. I worked nights alot and got excused from most "mandatory" type stuff. Thank goodness.
Anyway, there I was sitting on the floor of the BRC, literally under VP's feet. It was a long meeting, and he was talking, other people were talking, don't remember exactly, but I fell asleep. I woke up and looked at my watch and it was like 11:00 pm and I had to go to work. I didn't know how to get out of the meeting gracefully, and I was wondering if I had snored or drooled or something.
VP sensed my dilemna somehow, and tapped me with his foot and said, "Go on to work, and work heartlily as unto the Lord." He was very kind. I very sleepily and awkwardly got up and left. I heard afterterwards, that somebody got reamed for falling asleep during the same meeting, right after I left. Go figure.
Sitting at his feet meant different things to different people. Sometimes it was good and kind, othertimes not. That is the thing that is so hard to figure.....
I think the corps got way too big for the "sit at the feet of the master" stuff. When we did sit at his feet, or LCM's up there in that huge room at Emporia, I forget what its called, at the "afterglows" - they would turn the lights down low and we'd all get comfy and fall asleep as they droned on and on and on.
Hey, I remember napping in my back-jack!! Trying not to tip over or let my head fall too far forward so I didn't get yelled at...
The Vicster definately tried hard to make us feel like we were sitting at the feet of the master when he visited campus... yeah, all (how many hundreds of us were on campus at the time?????) Riiiiight...
But by the time the 15th corps came along, Martindale told them straight out that the days of sitting at the feet of the man of god were OVER. That they were so spiritually dull he couldn't open his life up to a single one of them. I was in the college program and remember his comments very clearly. I felt hurt and embarrassed and angry for the corps when he said it. I thought, isn't it his job to set the example of the 'master' to the 'disciple'? Doesn't that mean you are patient and expect your pupils to get better? Where does he get off saying something like that to these folks who have pledged so much to the service of the ministry!! I was SO unimpressed with him at that moment.
Of course, I later got talked into joining the corps myself. And by then ol' Craig was telling us we weren't worthy to carry his jock strap. I can't believe we actually considered that an insult. Geez, we were blind!!!
He did actually "open up" a lot to the 18th corps in our first year because it was just after the fog started and he was pretty dispondant when we arrived at HQ. He looked just terrible... all pasty and puffy and exhausted all the time. And he liked to come sit and talk to us, and tell us when he was excited about something or down or was thinking about some teaching or whatever. At the time, I felt privileged. Like he trusted us to hear his innrmost thoughts and feelings. Looking back, I think we were all a party to one long self-indulgent, self-absorbed pity party.
When we came back for our last in-rez year everything was different. Loy was all fired up again and breaking it off with Geer. No more "openness" just a lot of reaming people and telling everyone where they had opened themselves up to evil when bad things happened.
Oh, wasn't that space above the dining room at Emporia called the Ambassador Room? (and didn't Doc Vic steal the term afterglow from one of those other ministers that he stole things from... can't remember which one now...)
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excathedra
plenty of at his feet but you had to go on the motorcoach
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waysider
Sorry, excie, honest.
I didn't mean it that way.
Peace???
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Outfield
Someone I studied with told about being at his feet during teachings. They were informal and everyone just gathered around and he shared....I wasn't there...but heard about it.
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polar bear
WS-The "at the foot of the mog" concept was never lived in the corps program.
It was at best imitiated on Wednesday nights when VP or Loy got on the phone and rehashed some work that the research deptment had labored on for them all week. They for the most part had nothing to do with it and took the credit.
Then they would go into a tirade on how some peon had spilled oil from a leaking motor on their new pavement. Funny thing was the mog was driving a new car which they bought on ministry expenses while the poor peon was slaving away on some grounds crew for peanuts.
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excathedra
of course peace
you didn't offend me in the least
--
okay so besides kneeling at his feet in the motorcoach.....
we did get to hang out with him at night owls and such
he would be pretty lit and go on and on
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doojable
There were the "After glows"... then we all sat on the floor after Corps Nights in a big room - don't remember the name. The big wigs were always in chairs and we were all on the floor and we'd "share" about what we learned.
But I always hated that term..."Afterglow"...
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WordWolf
Gee, vpw used a term with a sexual connotation for something he was doing
that supposedly had nothing to do with sex.
What a coincidence.
It seems to me that what the corps was billed as depended heavily upon what
was calculated as being the approach to interest you,
with the actual content being incidental, if that.
Are you more an academic?
Then the corps is a place to study directly on-grounds, and learn more than
is covered locally, with in-depth Greek study and classes that don't leave
the grounds.
Are you more a hands-on person?
Then the corps is the place to learn practical application of Biblical principles,
for use in everyday life.
Are you more a conspiracy theorist?
Then the corps is a place to learn the secrets behind the news, and what's
going to happen in the US soon.
Are you excited about being in twi?
Then the corps is a place to learn to perform feats unattainable by the rest
of the world.
Are you devoted to the idea that vpw has received the greatest understanding
of Scripture in 2000 years?
Then the corps is a place to learn at the feet of the master.
In each case, what you GOT was exactly the same- but the goal was to get
you to sign up and pay your tuition more than realistically prepare you for
what would be covered-which didn't approach ANY of those sales pitches
(except small parts of the first 2.)
Reminds me of those old commercials, supposedly of some Iron Curtain country,
where the "model" comes out in "different" outfits, which are the same
outfits with the announcer giving them different names
("day-vear!" "Evening-vear!")
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johniam
Don't forget "svim vear".
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penworks
Wordwolf's "take" is very good. I was in the 2nd Corps in 1971-73 and VPW was at HQ with us most of the time. Thankfully I missed out on the motorcoach, but we did meet in the Fireplace room in VP's home many times when he'd sit and talk about the problems in the ministry, appeal to our sympathy, and drink drambouie. We also met outside under the trees by his house, sitting on blankets etc. for teachings. The back of the BRC was an informal meeting place, also, as was the dining room, of course, when he'd sit up on the back of his chair and liken his ministry to Paul's. As we all know, the idea was we'd learn his "heart" on how to run the ministry, live the Word, and work like dogs. The book, "The Way: Living in Love" captures a lot of that closed-in atmosphere, only in a pollyanna way - totally idealistic and white-washed propaganda.
What appealed to me (at 19 years old) was the claim that I could learn more of The Word through the Corps experience than anywhere else because I'd learn directly from the man of God for the world! WOW! Starving for "answers," you couldn't keep me out! BTW - the Corps principles were not published until after we were in the Corps. AFTER we were already in the program we found out that Dr. would assign us to wherever he wanted us to go as leaders and workers after graduation. Surprise! But by the time we got that news, I was so idoctrinated that I simply accepted that fate. This was God's ministry, after all...:-)
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Sunesis
Penworks, I really appreciate your sharing, its great to hear the perpectives of the very early TWI folk and corps people.
I remember you guys - your corps. I was in high school and VP would send your corps to Columbus. Many of you stayed at my house. Everyone loved my little sister. I think I was too weird - no one knew what to make of me :)
Except, I remember it was a Friday or Sat. night around 1 or 2 a.m. and I was watching roller derby ( don't all teenagers stay up late and sleep in 'till noon? Or was I the exception). Anyway, who comes out but TB, you know him :). He spent a good half hour convincing me I should be in bed and not waste my time with that. He then went back to bed and I finished my show.
Anyway, I saw early on VP's nasty side. I was pretty much able to avoid him in the corps, except, when I was called to his motorcoach and he told me several times, very graphically, the type of sex acts he'd like to perform. Talk about a disconnnect. I left. He pretty much left me alone after that. I also think the corps got way too big for the "sit at the feet of the master" stuff.
When we did sit at his feet, or LCM's up there in that huge room at Emporia, I forget what its called, at the "afterglows" - they would turn the lights down low and we'd all get comfy and fall asleep as they droned on and on and on.
Did you feel you were learning incredible spiritual stuff since you were in daily contact with him in your corps?
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penworks
Depends on how you define "spiritual stuff," but viewed through my idealistic rose colored glasses, I thought I was learning how to listen to God (which would be in the spiritual catagory) so I got very sidetracked with thinking God was telling me to do certain things, like who to marry, etc. Saying he got revelation was VPW's method of explaining away his behavior, which to our "five senses" might seem bizarre or mean at times. VP would use that to justify everything from firing leaders on the field who didn't agree with him, to making us clear the fields of rocks so more lawns could grow, etc. He'd always say, "The Father told me to...." How do you argue with that? Like someone once said, "It's like trying to argue with the communists...they always have an answer." At the time, my impression was that this was a spiritual way to live. YIKES! I had absolutley no frame of reference other than comparing spirituality to the way the Sisters of Mercy (ha!) conducted their lives around me when I was in Catholic school. And I for sure didn't want to wind up like them!
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Eyesopen
I believe that is the perfect example of using the Lords name in vain.
But when you are there it really was like walking in a fog and how do you argue with a comment like that. If you are right...you have just insulted the "boss", if you are wrong you have just insulted the "BOSS". Bottom line is if you wanted to stay you just went with the flow and stayed as deep in the fog as you could...dont get into the sights of the MOG.
What a way to live! "YIKES!" Darn right!
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Watered Garden
I was in FLO for two of Waysider's three years, and I can't remember a single thing I learned, except how to tell baby radishes from baby weeds.
Honest. That was the first thing Mr. Garden liked about me. I could work in a garden.
We did have a Fellow Laborers Night, similar to Corps Night except since we worked secular jobs we couldn't all dress to nines, at least I couldn't since I worked in Columbus and drove directly to Limb. We took classes, too. One of the most entertaining things about Corps Night and classes was watching Mr. Garden try to stay awake. I don't remember much about the book of Acts.
Wasn't there some time or other we were supposed to memorize the first chapter of Ephesians?
Second year was worse, mostly bytch sessions from JM.
Our objectives were similar if not identical to WC. "Acquire an indepth spiritual awareness and perception."
Uh-huh.
WG
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Eyesopen
<_<
Somebody start the fog machine. :blink:
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Watered Garden
Maybe one of them should have been: How to melt face and look spiritual while you're doing it.
WG
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Eyesopen
Hahahahaaahaha
Thanks!
I can here it now, "You can't look spiritual if you have spittal just drooling out of your mouth...learn how to project!"
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Watered Garden
And be sure it doesn't dribble onto the lapels of your three piece suit!
WG
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Outfield
Don't breathe when you are yelling because your face turns more red and therefore you are more in tune with the holy spirit.
If spit falls on you - consider it a blessing from the man of God.
You always have the option to leave.....but then you aren't obeying now are you? You're rebeling.
Don't think, just do.....
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GrouchoMarxJr
Sitting at the master's feet...never happened by the time I entered the 10th corps. We were cattle being herded from one building to another. Taking classes that we all had taken before, sitting in "study hall" for hours after hour, providing them 4 hours a day of free labor at our assigned jobs...Hunger and exhaustion were the order of the day. The idea was to break down the person and make them glassy eyed and obedient. It was a classic example of "bait and switch"...It was not what they had made it out to be...it was bogus in my opinion...a waste of my time.
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ex10
Sitting at the Master's Feet reminds me of something....
It was sometime the summer of 1978.....I worked on staff at HQ's, as it was called then. There was a meeting in the BRC, for the 7th Interim Corps I think, can't remember exactly, but for some reason, I always went to those type meetings. It wasn't like there was a huge divide between corps and staff. It was really the kind of thing where I showed up if I could, and wasn't sleeping. I worked nights alot and got excused from most "mandatory" type stuff. Thank goodness.
Anyway, there I was sitting on the floor of the BRC, literally under VP's feet. It was a long meeting, and he was talking, other people were talking, don't remember exactly, but I fell asleep. I woke up and looked at my watch and it was like 11:00 pm and I had to go to work. I didn't know how to get out of the meeting gracefully, and I was wondering if I had snored or drooled or something.
VP sensed my dilemna somehow, and tapped me with his foot and said, "Go on to work, and work heartlily as unto the Lord." He was very kind. I very sleepily and awkwardly got up and left. I heard afterterwards, that somebody got reamed for falling asleep during the same meeting, right after I left. Go figure.
Sitting at his feet meant different things to different people. Sometimes it was good and kind, othertimes not. That is the thing that is so hard to figure.....
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TheHighWay
Hey, I remember napping in my back-jack!! Trying not to tip over or let my head fall too far forward so I didn't get yelled at...
The Vicster definately tried hard to make us feel like we were sitting at the feet of the master when he visited campus... yeah, all (how many hundreds of us were on campus at the time?????) Riiiiight...
But by the time the 15th corps came along, Martindale told them straight out that the days of sitting at the feet of the man of god were OVER. That they were so spiritually dull he couldn't open his life up to a single one of them. I was in the college program and remember his comments very clearly. I felt hurt and embarrassed and angry for the corps when he said it. I thought, isn't it his job to set the example of the 'master' to the 'disciple'? Doesn't that mean you are patient and expect your pupils to get better? Where does he get off saying something like that to these folks who have pledged so much to the service of the ministry!! I was SO unimpressed with him at that moment.
Of course, I later got talked into joining the corps myself. And by then ol' Craig was telling us we weren't worthy to carry his jock strap. I can't believe we actually considered that an insult. Geez, we were blind!!!
He did actually "open up" a lot to the 18th corps in our first year because it was just after the fog started and he was pretty dispondant when we arrived at HQ. He looked just terrible... all pasty and puffy and exhausted all the time. And he liked to come sit and talk to us, and tell us when he was excited about something or down or was thinking about some teaching or whatever. At the time, I felt privileged. Like he trusted us to hear his innrmost thoughts and feelings. Looking back, I think we were all a party to one long self-indulgent, self-absorbed pity party.
When we came back for our last in-rez year everything was different. Loy was all fired up again and breaking it off with Geer. No more "openness" just a lot of reaming people and telling everyone where they had opened themselves up to evil when bad things happened.
Oh, wasn't that space above the dining room at Emporia called the Ambassador Room? (and didn't Doc Vic steal the term afterglow from one of those other ministers that he stole things from... can't remember which one now...)
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doojable
I remember originally hearing the term "Afterglow" in CF&S. Then I heard it next in the corps, it was used for those meetings after corpse night.
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waysider
Afterglow is not a new word. It's been around a long time.
The first time I remember hearing it used in a sexual manner was in the book, Joy of Sex.
You may also recall that Crosby, Stills and Nash used it in a sexual manner in the song, Lady of the Island.
Interestingly, though, here is how The Merriam Webster Dictionary defines it:
"a glow remaining where a light has disappeared."
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Watered Garden
Highway,
I distinctly remember that phrase "There is not a one of you who is worthy of the PRIVILEGE of carrying my jockstrap!"
I wanted to throw up at the very thought. Then I wanted, and wish I had, to jump up from my seat in the chapel at RC and shout at the top of my lungs:
THANK YOU JESUS!
I bet that would've got us set free from FWC in a big hurry!
WG
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