Wow! I had no idea what was going on in the years before I got involved! Nothin' wrong with steel-cut oats and homemade cheese, mind you, but the legalism even then! Sheesh! I might not've gone in the WC, had I known.
I must say, though, that my best friend, who I met the 1st day in the WC, probably hasn't bought a loaf of bread in the past 2 decades. She bakes her own, which has led her on a journey of discovery regarding food and nutrition. She has grown and canned all of the staples she'll need for the next year, and makes cheese in her basement. I'd love to be that self-sufficient. So many projects, so little time.
If any of you have a passion for natural foods/nutrition/organic gardening, pm me, and maybe I can help you to connect.
we had a way home ... to get everyone involved, we had a sign up sheet ... two people to cook, two to clean up .. I think we had 12 total. fortunately we had college wows, and at least one was a nutrition major ... the non chef types could sign up with a better cooker ... it went pretty well. We just all put in the same amount, pretty cheap. I think we just had breakfast stuff available ... only supper was together.
I, too, slipped a couple bucks to someone occasionally. The individual Waysider mentioned was a true practitioner of charity.
Our first year, we had liver and onions fairly frequently for our evening meal. There are those who can cook it, and those who can't. Mr. Garden's household was always fragrant with onions afterward, and also with the considerable amount of garlic he put on it to drown the taste.
Probably the worst was wilted mustard greens. For some reason, the limb garden and yielded a bumper crop of mustard greens that summer, and it was the brain child of someone to make wilted mustards greens, as wilted lettuce is made, but with hot, peppery mustard greens. I never liked wilted lettuce as a child and found wilted mustard greens to be well-nigh unpalatable. *
*For those who are familiar with neither, clean leaf lettuce or mustard greens are placed in a large bowl. The sauce if you can call it that, is comprised of egg, crumbled bacon, vinegar and oil, very sour and nasty, which is heated to boiling and poured over the bowl of greens, thus wilting it. This was The Meal, not a side dish.
We had this several times, until somehow the mustard greens died a mysterious death, I suspect at the hands of the individual in charge of the 1 1/2 acre garden behind limb, my future husband. Or maybe it was the collective believing of 42 disgusted FLO's.
Another corps meal that was really strange was served at suppertime, at hq.
On my interim year, we were served a hefty portion of applecrisp and ice cream for our meal. That's it. Yeah, it was really good........and sometimes, we got second helpings. BUT.......it wasn't *really a supper meal*.......it was a sweet dessert that should have followed the meal.
Problem was.......after a hard-day's work, us interim corps were HUNGRY. And.........it was always served on Tuesday nights. And.........corps night used to be on Tuesday nights. And.........this applecrisp and ice cream would give us a MAJOR sugar buzz........not quite the mental state one needed before a long meeting.
They did drop it off the supper meal menu after a couple of months though.
I was in the 13th Corps and on my interim year at HQ, we were required to eat supper at the OSC ... and one night we had apple crisp for dinner with ice cream (actually, one night we had fondue, which was really neat) ... but the only other time I remember being served that dish at HQ was when I took the Advanced Class at HQ during the summer of 1973 ... eating in the basement of the old BRC. It was good, but I remember being very surprised they would serve that for supper ... but warm apple crisp with good Schwan's ice cream ...MMMMMM! Would have made a great dessert!
The kids of this age, and from maybe 2-3 years on up, lived in rooms on the same hall with their parents, but were bunked in with other kids in their own age group. The elder corps kids were encouraged to train the newbies and would quickly tattle if there was a problem. I admire this kid that he tried to work with the offender himself and then was honest with Mom.
By the way, it wasn't my kid. :)
It was not right . We had very little overseeing time for our own children, they were watched by staff members, some bad, some good. Our son had repeated the first grade and was the same age as the sixth graders, who were allowed to stay up until 9 pm, whereas little baby fifth graders and younger had to go to bed at 8 pm. We meekly petitioned F***e Cl*** to let him stay up with kids his age, not his grade, and were rudely rebuffed. He was in the fifth grade, he could damn well go to bed with the other fifth graders. This of course only made things worse; he had stayed up until 9 at home. But rules are rules and there must be no exceptions, I guess.
I think young Christian didn't think much of that woman either, based on this story.
It's just surreal to me to think about kids living in a dorm environment full on with roommates instead of family. Kids raising kids and folks being stressed and pushed to the limits mentally, emotionally, physically, etc. does not make for a good "home" environment, does it? :(
Nice name he gave the spoon wielder. That little boy could be my kid. Usually he was just craving attention. He did get the crap beat out of him on a fairly regular basis.
She was very legalistic. The year after we left FWC we went to Word in Business and when my husband spoke to her, she stuck up her nose and looked the other way. Way** seemed more down to earth, but I didn't trust him either. They had been in SC briefly before being recalled to run the FWC upon Mausolf's abdication. He did at that time have his head up LCM's behind so far that daylight would've been a strange experience for him.
My son and I supported the burger joint in town I think We used to buy Pizza Burgers - Yummmmmm. We still remember how good those were!!!
I remember when John Nave and another man was killed in a car accident. VPW said they died because they SNUCK into town to get a bag of cookies. That was the stupidest thing I had EVER heard. If that was true all the corps would have been dead!!! We pretty much all left to go get food all the time. I saw him use a lot of manipulation and control and implanting fear and confusion with that incident.
When I was in the Corps there were a lot of really good people. Some of them weren't but most of them really were nice. I was in one of the beginning Corps so it wasn't so crazy yet but I think it was becoming that way. After I graduated I worked staff at the Kipp Farm for a year. After that year I left there AND left the ministry, thank God. Listening to all of you here it sounds like it got really weird after that.
The last contact I had with the ministry was a year or two later when some people in KC asked me to take them to see Craig because of things that were happening in their area that they felt was not right. I did take them to see Craig and he screamed and spit in my face accusing me of trying to create division within the family. When I left HDQ he had not become like that yet so it was the first time I experienced him out of control.
After I left there I didn't have anything to do with the ministry at all - except to help people transition out of the ministry when the 'great falling away happened'. People who put me down for leaving TWI and told me I would physically die were all of a sudden calling me and asking me what they should do. It was an interesting experience. People actually thought if they left TWI they would die. I was living proof that not only did I not die but I had a good relationship with God. It surprised them.
AND, after the the whole nazi camp at Lead happened - VPW told us what they had done to the people there and told us that everyone blew it - especially Craig. He said had any of them applied the principle, "be still and know that I am God" God would have revealed to them exactly what was going on, but none of them got with God. I thought the whole thing was VERY strange and wondered why anyone would do that to anyone!!!! It wasn't my idea of how God would work with anyone to teach then anything.
My son and I supported the burger joint in town I think We used to buy Pizza Burgers - Yummmmmm. We still remember how good those were!!!
I remember when John Nave and another man was killed in a car accident. VPW said they died because they SNUCK into town to get a bag of cookies. That was the stupidest thing I had EVER heard. If that was true all the corps would have been dead!!! We pretty much all left to go get food all the time. I saw him use a lot of manipulation and control and implanting fear and confusion with that incident.
Corps Indoctrination: Twisted...............started first and foremost with Wierwille.
When I was in the Corps there were a lot of really good people. Some of them weren't but most of them really were nice. I was in one of the beginning Corps so it wasn't so crazy yet but I think it was becoming that way. After I graduated I worked staff at the Kipp Farm for a year. After that year I left there AND left the ministry, thank God. Listening to all of you here it sounds like it got really weird after that.
Yes, it got REALLY wierd......and controlling. Even some of the twi offshoots have these same manipulative tricks and moggish doctrines.
The last contact I had with the ministry was a year or two later when some people in KC asked me to take them to see Craig because of things that were happening in their area that they felt was not right. I did take them to see Craig and he screamed and spit in my face accusing me of trying to create division within the family. When I left HDQ he had not become like that yet so it was the first time I experienced him out of control.
Screaming and spitting was his m.o.
After I left there I didn't have anything to do with the ministry at all - except to help people transition out of the ministry when the 'great falling away happened'. People who put me down for leaving TWI and told me I would physically die were all of a sudden calling me and asking me what they should do. It was an interesting experience. People actually thought if they left TWI they would die. I was living proof that not only did I not die but I had a good relationship with God. It surprised them.
Thanks for assisting in these transitions.........and now there is GS.
AND, after the the whole nazi camp at Lead happened - VPW told us what they had done to the people there and told us that everyone blew it - especially Craig. He said had any of them applied the principle, "be still and know that I am God" God would have revealed to them exactly what was going on, but none of them got with God. I thought the whole thing was VERY strange and wondered why anyone would do that to anyone!!!! It wasn't my idea of how God would work with anyone to teach then anything.
Everyone blew it - especially Craig..............and yet, Wierwille *believes* that Craig should be the next president of twi??? So, Wierwille....................YOU blew it.
Did J**n N*ve die in the wreck? I thought he survived and was blamed by VPW for the accident happening, treated like dirt afterward, his marriage broke up and it messed up his life because of VP's bitter condemnation of him.
It is always so surprising to me as I learn more about God, that His ways are higher than our ways and He can be very tender indeed in teaching us to live a more Christ-centered life. TWI perverted God's love into a charicature of an angry, vengeful God who loves to smite His children, never forgets and never forgives.
Did J**n N*ve die in the wreck? I thought he survived and was blamed by VPW for the accident happening, treated like dirt afterward, his marriage broke up and it messed up his life because of VP's bitter condemnation of him.
It is always so surprising to me as I learn more about God, that His ways are higher than our ways and He can be very tender indeed in teaching us to live a more Christ-centered life. TWI perverted God's love into a charicature of an angry, vengeful God who loves to smite His children, never forgets and never forgives.
My best girlfriend of many years (pre TWI) has recently completed training to become a minister in the Methodist church. She has studied quite a lot of topics, they discuss different interpretations of scripture, they considered different ways various situations might be handled, they visited places of worship of other religions (boy, did she have something to say about the mosque they visited), they had to write essays and give considered opinions, they learned how to do funerals and visited funeral parlors (and behind the scenes there) (which was very good because the day before she officially started as a minister, a parishoner died so her first task was his funeral!), they had lengthy but helpful counselling sessions to be sure that they knew what they wanted to do and where they felt their calling lay.
They had no training in Greek, Hebrew or whatever else. No "hands-on practical application of The Word" by working four hours a day.
She trained through a training college with a good reputation which was used by Methodist and Anglican trainees and I believe there were a couple of people from other denominations as well.
Sounds to me like they were all carefully and thoroughly introduced to topics, aspects of life as a minister, the ways they could help their congregations...
At the time she started that my head was still - in TWI-land. I am ashamed to say that I thought her training was inappropriate and poor and not practical. It was nothing like the WC and sounded too wishy-washy to be true. What, no face meltings? No interminable meetings? No confrontation at all, just these gentle heart to heart talks (which she dreaded!)?
No, just time to think about God and his word, to study carefully and to be lovingly guided, to be exposed to different ways of thinking, and to be allowed to choose a path that fitted with their own desires and family commitments.
She was so helpful to me in "just being there" and being non-confrontational. She is naturally kind and compassionate. I didn't have any contact for years in TWI daze but afterwards it was as if there had never been a break. She is so compassionate as to say that she is really sorry that it didn't work out for me with TWI, even though she didn't like the organization, but because she knew it had been significant for me. (This is one wise woman who went to a PFAL presentation and never went back.)
Twisted scriptures? Twisted training? Indoctrination, or teaching to think Godly?
I look at what she underwent and what I underwent. We both learned.
One of us however has a considerable amount to unlearn.
Now, I can be helpful to her in dealing with some things she has encountered because I've been there. And also I really did study to learn whilst in rez (actually what I learned and practiced got me kicked out not too long after).
I am very thankful for her life. I wish her well in her (Trinitarian) ministry. God bless her and her family. She has a true calling and is a real pastor to God's kids.
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Watered Garden
Rhino, the ver sight makes me shiver!
WG
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cinderpelt
You guys crack me up!
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waysider
We had a food co-op we called "manna".
( run by two women, usually, who we called "Manna Mammas")
It cost $6.00/week per person.(1975)
If you didn't pay, you couldn't eat breakfast or supper but you had to sit with everyone else at meal time.
No one could offer you part of their portion or pay your fee for you.
Of course, there were ways around that.
A certain Mr. J@hn G!lb3rt bailed me out more than once by giving me the $6.00 under the table.
Food was organized and distributed every Tuesday night by about 5 or 6 people.
Every meal was planned and had a set of recipes to accompany the menu.
Every house had to make the same supper on any given night and bring it to limb HQ where we all ate together with our designated "houses".
Proper etiquette was always required.
The people who worked on "manna night" were responsible for making the familia(as well as mayo, etc.)
The familia was made in bulk quantities and stored in garbage cans.(Lined with bags, of course.)
We got the steel cut oats, wheat berries and oat grotes from an Amish gentleman who had a flour milling operation.
We also bought our cheese in wheels from another Amish enterprise.
That was a Saturday morning project.
If you wanted Fig Pep for your familia, you had to buy your own during what little free time you had.
Something else.
If I recall correctly, there were no beverages at supper, especially water, which was supposedly the worst thing you could drink during a meal.
There was, however, coffee after the meal, but there wasn't always time to drink it before work or the meeting started.
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cinderpelt
Wow! I had no idea what was going on in the years before I got involved! Nothin' wrong with steel-cut oats and homemade cheese, mind you, but the legalism even then! Sheesh! I might not've gone in the WC, had I known.
I must say, though, that my best friend, who I met the 1st day in the WC, probably hasn't bought a loaf of bread in the past 2 decades. She bakes her own, which has led her on a journey of discovery regarding food and nutrition. She has grown and canned all of the staples she'll need for the next year, and makes cheese in her basement. I'd love to be that self-sufficient. So many projects, so little time.
If any of you have a passion for natural foods/nutrition/organic gardening, pm me, and maybe I can help you to connect.
~Cinder
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rhino
WOW ... that does seem pretty tuff ...
we had a way home ... to get everyone involved, we had a sign up sheet ... two people to cook, two to clean up .. I think we had 12 total. fortunately we had college wows, and at least one was a nutrition major ... the non chef types could sign up with a better cooker ... it went pretty well. We just all put in the same amount, pretty cheap. I think we just had breakfast stuff available ... only supper was together.
no fig pep or wheat berries ...
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Outfield
It sounds so sad to eat that day after day.....
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Tom Strange
Well... it was affordable...
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Watered Garden
I, too, slipped a couple bucks to someone occasionally. The individual Waysider mentioned was a true practitioner of charity.
Our first year, we had liver and onions fairly frequently for our evening meal. There are those who can cook it, and those who can't. Mr. Garden's household was always fragrant with onions afterward, and also with the considerable amount of garlic he put on it to drown the taste.
Probably the worst was wilted mustard greens. For some reason, the limb garden and yielded a bumper crop of mustard greens that summer, and it was the brain child of someone to make wilted mustards greens, as wilted lettuce is made, but with hot, peppery mustard greens. I never liked wilted lettuce as a child and found wilted mustard greens to be well-nigh unpalatable. *
*For those who are familiar with neither, clean leaf lettuce or mustard greens are placed in a large bowl. The sauce if you can call it that, is comprised of egg, crumbled bacon, vinegar and oil, very sour and nasty, which is heated to boiling and poured over the bowl of greens, thus wilting it. This was The Meal, not a side dish.
We had this several times, until somehow the mustard greens died a mysterious death, I suspect at the hands of the individual in charge of the 1 1/2 acre garden behind limb, my future husband. Or maybe it was the collective believing of 42 disgusted FLO's.
WG
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skyrider
Another corps meal that was really strange was served at suppertime, at hq.
On my interim year, we were served a hefty portion of applecrisp and ice cream for our meal. That's it. Yeah, it was really good........and sometimes, we got second helpings. BUT.......it wasn't *really a supper meal*.......it was a sweet dessert that should have followed the meal.
Problem was.......after a hard-day's work, us interim corps were HUNGRY. And.........it was always served on Tuesday nights. And.........corps night used to be on Tuesday nights. And.........this applecrisp and ice cream would give us a MAJOR sugar buzz........not quite the mental state one needed before a long meeting.
They did drop it off the supper meal menu after a couple of months though.
Guess someone figured it out.
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Oakspear
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WordWolf
If one reads that quickly, it looks like one is served that WITH their meal-as a nice dessert, not AS their meal-no entrees, etc.
Me, I'm cynical enough to think they put that in practice so that it was in effect when Whiteside was writing
so she could honestly say they were served that.
There's something similar in "Catcher in the Rye." The protagonist, Holden Caulfield, says his school (Pencey Prep)
served "steak" the day before the parents came to visit, so that if the parents ask what they had for dinner, they would
say "steak." Only the "steak" was shrivelled, unappetizing, and barely resembled beef-so it was really a trick.
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DogLover
I was in the 13th Corps and on my interim year at HQ, we were required to eat supper at the OSC ... and one night we had apple crisp for dinner with ice cream (actually, one night we had fondue, which was really neat) ... but the only other time I remember being served that dish at HQ was when I took the Advanced Class at HQ during the summer of 1973 ... eating in the basement of the old BRC. It was good, but I remember being very surprised they would serve that for supper ... but warm apple crisp with good Schwan's ice cream ...MMMMMM! Would have made a great dessert!
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Rocky
But it was better than BORSCHT!
They did make some good homemade bread, but not often enough.
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Belle
Tangental question about corps, but it's not food related and it might make you lose your appetite:
I read this story from Christian's website about Stinky.
Did the kids not stay with their parents in residence? What was the living arrangement?
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Watered Garden
Belle,
The kids of this age, and from maybe 2-3 years on up, lived in rooms on the same hall with their parents, but were bunked in with other kids in their own age group. The elder corps kids were encouraged to train the newbies and would quickly tattle if there was a problem. I admire this kid that he tried to work with the offender himself and then was honest with Mom.
By the way, it wasn't my kid. :)
It was not right . We had very little overseeing time for our own children, they were watched by staff members, some bad, some good. Our son had repeated the first grade and was the same age as the sixth graders, who were allowed to stay up until 9 pm, whereas little baby fifth graders and younger had to go to bed at 8 pm. We meekly petitioned F***e Cl*** to let him stay up with kids his age, not his grade, and were rudely rebuffed. He was in the fifth grade, he could damn well go to bed with the other fifth graders. This of course only made things worse; he had stayed up until 9 at home. But rules are rules and there must be no exceptions, I guess.
WG
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Belle
I would never think it was your kid, WG.
I think young Christian didn't think much of that woman either, based on this story.
It's just surreal to me to think about kids living in a dorm environment full on with roommates instead of family. Kids raising kids and folks being stressed and pushed to the limits mentally, emotionally, physically, etc. does not make for a good "home" environment, does it? :(
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Watered Garden
Nice name he gave the spoon wielder. That little boy could be my kid. Usually he was just craving attention. He did get the crap beat out of him on a fairly regular basis.
She was very legalistic. The year after we left FWC we went to Word in Business and when my husband spoke to her, she stuck up her nose and looked the other way. Way** seemed more down to earth, but I didn't trust him either. They had been in SC briefly before being recalled to run the FWC upon Mausolf's abdication. He did at that time have his head up LCM's behind so far that daylight would've been a strange experience for him.
WG
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Edi
I remember when John Nave and another man was killed in a car accident. VPW said they died because they SNUCK into town to get a bag of cookies. That was the stupidest thing I had EVER heard. If that was true all the corps would have been dead!!! We pretty much all left to go get food all the time. I saw him use a lot of manipulation and control and implanting fear and confusion with that incident.
When I was in the Corps there were a lot of really good people. Some of them weren't but most of them really were nice. I was in one of the beginning Corps so it wasn't so crazy yet but I think it was becoming that way. After I graduated I worked staff at the Kipp Farm for a year. After that year I left there AND left the ministry, thank God. Listening to all of you here it sounds like it got really weird after that.
The last contact I had with the ministry was a year or two later when some people in KC asked me to take them to see Craig because of things that were happening in their area that they felt was not right. I did take them to see Craig and he screamed and spit in my face accusing me of trying to create division within the family. When I left HDQ he had not become like that yet so it was the first time I experienced him out of control.
After I left there I didn't have anything to do with the ministry at all - except to help people transition out of the ministry when the 'great falling away happened'. People who put me down for leaving TWI and told me I would physically die were all of a sudden calling me and asking me what they should do. It was an interesting experience. People actually thought if they left TWI they would die. I was living proof that not only did I not die but I had a good relationship with God. It surprised them.
AND, after the the whole nazi camp at Lead happened - VPW told us what they had done to the people there and told us that everyone blew it - especially Craig. He said had any of them applied the principle, "be still and know that I am God" God would have revealed to them exactly what was going on, but none of them got with God. I thought the whole thing was VERY strange and wondered why anyone would do that to anyone!!!! It wasn't my idea of how God would work with anyone to teach then anything.
WOW - memories!!! Whew
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skyrider
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Watered Garden
Did J**n N*ve die in the wreck? I thought he survived and was blamed by VPW for the accident happening, treated like dirt afterward, his marriage broke up and it messed up his life because of VP's bitter condemnation of him.
It is always so surprising to me as I learn more about God, that His ways are higher than our ways and He can be very tender indeed in teaching us to live a more Christ-centered life. TWI perverted God's love into a charicature of an angry, vengeful God who loves to smite His children, never forgets and never forgives.
WG
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bookfan
No, John did NOT die in the wreck.
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Edi
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Danny
No but another brother did.
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Twinky
My best girlfriend of many years (pre TWI) has recently completed training to become a minister in the Methodist church. She has studied quite a lot of topics, they discuss different interpretations of scripture, they considered different ways various situations might be handled, they visited places of worship of other religions (boy, did she have something to say about the mosque they visited), they had to write essays and give considered opinions, they learned how to do funerals and visited funeral parlors (and behind the scenes there) (which was very good because the day before she officially started as a minister, a parishoner died so her first task was his funeral!), they had lengthy but helpful counselling sessions to be sure that they knew what they wanted to do and where they felt their calling lay.
They had no training in Greek, Hebrew or whatever else. No "hands-on practical application of The Word" by working four hours a day.
She trained through a training college with a good reputation which was used by Methodist and Anglican trainees and I believe there were a couple of people from other denominations as well.
Sounds to me like they were all carefully and thoroughly introduced to topics, aspects of life as a minister, the ways they could help their congregations...
At the time she started that my head was still - in TWI-land. I am ashamed to say that I thought her training was inappropriate and poor and not practical. It was nothing like the WC and sounded too wishy-washy to be true. What, no face meltings? No interminable meetings? No confrontation at all, just these gentle heart to heart talks (which she dreaded!)?
No, just time to think about God and his word, to study carefully and to be lovingly guided, to be exposed to different ways of thinking, and to be allowed to choose a path that fitted with their own desires and family commitments.
She was so helpful to me in "just being there" and being non-confrontational. She is naturally kind and compassionate. I didn't have any contact for years in TWI daze but afterwards it was as if there had never been a break. She is so compassionate as to say that she is really sorry that it didn't work out for me with TWI, even though she didn't like the organization, but because she knew it had been significant for me. (This is one wise woman who went to a PFAL presentation and never went back.)
Twisted scriptures? Twisted training? Indoctrination, or teaching to think Godly?
I look at what she underwent and what I underwent. We both learned.
One of us however has a considerable amount to unlearn.
Now, I can be helpful to her in dealing with some things she has encountered because I've been there. And also I really did study to learn whilst in rez (actually what I learned and practiced got me kicked out not too long after).
I am very thankful for her life. I wish her well in her (Trinitarian) ministry. God bless her and her family. She has a true calling and is a real pastor to God's kids.
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