Philip. 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be "isos" with God."
Is the word " isos" or "isosceles" ?
Dr. Wierwille points out the Greek word "isos" and gives a English Driv."isosceles" and " IT'S " definition does he even try
to divide "isos" at all ?
If he did as "he taught" he would need to "RIGHTLY DIVIDE"
"isosceles" is not the "God-Breathed Word" here "isos" is.
some Ex-Wayers Teach "isosceles" is, because Wierwille did in JCNG.
What about "isos"?
Dr.George M. Lamsa answers this for us in his "superior accuracy" of his knowledge with the "Aramaic Oriental mannerisms"
also he points out Dr.Wierwille misused the Aramaic in Philip.2
Dr.George M.Lamsa seen Christ's deity in the "Aramaic Phrases" in this Context, and he did just that, Lamsa "accurately divided the word" here. He seen that Christ is co equal, co eternal to the Father. Dr. Lamsa seen "Christ is YHWH."
Notice "Christ is "en morphe theou" look at it in the Greek.
Wierwille said to trace the"word" where it is:
used before
OOO, nnnnnooooo "this is were the rubber meets the road" you do not even need Greek here, you can see this in a Paraphrase.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought moreover to kill him [Jesus], because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said "God was his Father" making himself "isos" with God."
Notice: The Jews knew who "Jesus" was clamming to be, by the usage of the word "patros" [Father] OOPS Wierwille forgot to mention this word in his book JCNG ???
this word is used in a different manner than when it is applied to us, as referring to God as our Father. see the immediate context, And remote flow of context.
Look at it Translated as "as" we can do this according to Dr.Spiros Zodhiates President of AMG International. in the Complete Word Study Dictionary. p782 Lex# 2470
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought moreover to kill him [Jesus], because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said God was his Father [patros] making himself "as" God."
Philip. 2:6
Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be "as" God.
I like what you pointed out about Philip. 2:6 being "isos" or equare like
I see a lot of books that were not let in the bible teach when we changed we become the same kind as God but God is still greater
so yes we become like God not God himself but god kind being spirit kind no longer flesh kind
I see like or as both fiting
Dr. Wierwille all so used only the engish word for replenish in Gen1:28 when it is the same Hebrew word as fill in Gen 1:22
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and lreplenish] the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and [fill] the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
then Dr. Wierwille tells us you can not add to God's word and a second later he adds years inbetween Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3
Dr. Wierwille then mocks Simon in Acts 8 for trying to buy the power for leading a person into the holy spirit but he thinks its ok to sale the power
Wow I an so glad you see he "adds.admit, omits" and yes I see a lot of what you are saying. I see he really messed up on almost everything he preached "everything", I can not find anything he taught was on the mark (just my opinion and others as well).
I really think you are right in that "we will be like him" I was accused when I researched out "the son of God" of saying if I thought that this proved Christs deity, than it would make us Christ or God. One verse they "tried to use" to prove this was
"...to be conformed unto the image of his son" Rom. 8:29
I do admit when I was confronted with this verse, i was locked up at first. I went into the Greek I found that it does not say what they tried to get it to say at all.
Col. 1:15 "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"
The word translated "invisible" is "eikon" Now it has been my understanding that a 'eikon" always assumes a photo type (the orig. from which it is drawn from) In this verse it is clear in the text Christ is "eikon of theou" a "identical image"
2 Cor. 4:4 " ...who is the image [eikon] of God."
Now look how "accurate the word is here about us and the "eikon", and how we will not be a god, eikon of God, or GOD, though the word is clear that Christ is "eikon tou theou".
Rom. 8:29 "for whom he did foreknow he did predestinate to be conformed unto the image [eikon] of his Son.
Notice the word states "to be conformed to the eikon." not be the eikon like Christ is, but "conformed to it"
the Greek word translated conformed here is "summorphos". What I have gleamed from it is "together with, along side the Form of eikon.
In PHIL. 3:21 it speaks of a physical conforming to his glorious body.
"Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like [summorphos] his glorious body ..."
Here i see that we will again we will be made "LIKE unto his glorious body"
the word "fashioned" here to me shows a 'internal change' as the word "change" shows a external one (from what I have learned).
I remember Rick Ross now. one of my "babes" M*nica St+rer was deprogammed by him! I still remember what a great and loving person that she was and how it broke my heart to lose her as a sister. But in retrospect, perhaps she was saved more hurt this way. Except it was still a vile act to be deprogrfammed and in the manner they used it was just plain evil! Money was the root of all His evil indeed!
Vile act, no kidding. Now I never did understand how much money was involved in my case, but it was bad enough without that factor, even if the deprogrammers had gotten only expenses.
Vile act, no kidding. Now I never did understand how much money was involved in my case, but it was bad enough without that factor, even if the deprogrammers had gotten only expenses.
Well I really UPSET up when he took down them posts until here a day ago and said to myself: "well if he did not I would have never found you all and this site" so THANKS RICK ROSS, might have been God getting me over here to GSC lol lol. We got 3 reasons from them why they took them down, so there is a lie somewhere.
"the lying tongue is but for a moment" lol lol
Now to my response, WOW I am glad I never had to go through all that, I just kept reading the Word and searching for the truth, what a statement you all have there.
I read on many sites where he did some bad things to people, do not know if it was true or not but I searched around the Internet. I am sure he has did good, we all make bad choices.
Just to clarify; Rick Ross was not involved in my deprogramming, which took place almost 28 years ago. But I can certainly see the truth in the last part of RG's statement that I quoted.
Just to clarify; Rick Ross was not involved in my deprogramming, which took place almost 28 years ago. But I can certainly see the truth in the last part of RG's statement that I quoted.
OMG that has became a money scam then as well, so what is worse the Cult or the mentors....sheezzz e weezie
I do know that I found out not long ago the in MT 13 It is clear (to me) to not bash any Ministry whither it is a cult or not. And I felt bad at the time because I was in a anti Cult group OMG how stupid of me not to see it.
there will be a lot of men who claims to be "counter cult" and wow if they would just look into MT 13:29
Mr Rick Ross should open up his bible and look, maybe he has.
"
But he [Jesus]said, NO least you gather up the tares you root up the wheat with them
Triune God: you can get out of your halloween costume now (change the pic in your avatar)... it's scaring the young children!
lol lol lol that is so funny i never thought of that he he. I have had a lot of remarks on that pic. Serously do you thinl i should really change it ?? seems it bothers some, or they may be just joking.
Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery.
Yah, you got a lot of folks here who were horribly abused, destroyed and affected by vee pee, directly and/or indirectly. You do know that he raped and drugged a lot of women, don't you? Some of them post here. Most of the folks here are in some form of recovery or helping others recover... seeing the face of an abuser is not a pleasant thing.
I would think it would be very kind of you to find some other avatar.
Since your name conjures up images of a three headed beast, may I suggest something along the lines of:
I know you don't mean to hurt anyone, but it's creepy. :)
Yes welcome and do stick around. Yours is a heartbreaking story. Misfits, such as myself, while perhaps not being able to 'blend" have never been rejected here at GS. (well at least not yet) Civil virtue is alive and well in America, but if not, it is still here at GS. In fact, there is so much diversity here, if someone didn't know why we posted, they would probably think we were all univeralists.
Since your name conjures up images of a three headed beast, may I suggest something along the lines of:
Wow he has 3 heads ?? when he told me in his word there is only one Godhead "theotes" in COL 2:9
"in him [Christ] dwelleth all the fullness of the "theotes" bodily"
The word does not state 'theotes' is Plural at all !! and this is the only place this word is used in the NT.
I will try not to make the same mistake Moffiet and Brackateer, Gerber did in ROM 1:20, JN 1:1C,
The word teaches a "Mono God" One God, not three Heads lol lol I know you was just saying what they think. But I go with Bullanger 100%, and Dr. Lamsa (to an extent), and many more on the Godhead. I really think "Jonatheese Greber" in his green phantom translation, really messed this up, for Taz Russel (founder of the Watchtower) in the NWT. (this is VPW got the teaching about it). But i could be wrong as I have been before.
Thanks TG, the children have come out from behind the sofa...
I really did not think it bothered people but I guess it did, wow Now I see why people was not talking to me. I thought it was the fact they thought i was a "polytheist" or it was My under arms hee hee lol lol
Thanke for telling me, and BELLE thanks for your 3 headed jesus lol lol I have seen that one around, that one is for a "Oneness' groups, like the "apostolic Church" not me hee hee
Thank you very much, TG. :) I'm kinda glad you didn't pick the three headed Jesus, myself... It hurts my eyes and makes me think I've had too much to drink.
I can not comment on your other posts, but, as you can see, there are others who are interested and skilled enough to speak to the topics you present. There's so much great diversity here at the Cafe. You can pretty much find someone to talk about anything.
It does hurt my head too, it reminds me of when I was in the 'Jesus Only" movement AKA oneness Pentacost. and was under the teachings of a Willam M Branham lol lol. Another person that claimed the end of the world was going to come at a certain date.
I can say this about VPW he did show me the distinctions in the Father and Son and Spirit, He just needed to take Lamsas advise on some of this stuff. Although Dr Lamsa was well known by Aramaic scholars, "to think Aramaic was the inspired text". Dr Lamsa did not see the persons in the Godhead either, but said they was different "attributes". But regardless he still seen that there was distinctions in the Godhead, and that Christ and the Holy Spirit had always been God, and they was co-equal and co-eternal.
We all get some things wrong because we are ever learning. Even the guy you all put on in your radio Programs John J. he really pushes the Cross theory on that web site, and he cannot prove it in the inspired text at all !! (that I have seen). He takes his readers to the word "crux" Come on John you are a smart man and to go with the "Lutherans/Catholics" rather than "The Word" ? I really agree with John J. in a lot of areas, but to swing a reader to the "Latin" to "try" to prove the cross theory hummmm Do not get me wrong I personally think the "Cross" should be taught, but to say that Christ actually was Crucified on a wood stake with a cross beam like you see in the Pics, is being dishonest (when it comes to actually what is written) to me.
John I really would like to see how you handle the "GREEK" in this area I am ready to listen, but the Latin is just another Translation like the Aramaic is, you know this John.
Thanks belle I really did not know about the things you said about the women on here and VPW so I am glad to remove that avie.
Akribos Theological Fellowship. Quotes this on there Web Site.
"By whom and when was the doctrine of the Trinity established?"
Most Ex-Wayers (all that I have seen) Will take you to the Council of Nica in 325 AD. But notice they "leave the Word" and go to the council of "Nica." Wierwille did this in his teaching about "isos" ??? This is a side step, "scared to face the Truth".
If we go to the "Bible" as our "final authority" in all "Teaching" as they teach to do. One would need to ask their self a question, what is "the final" or "first" authority, the council of "Nica" ??? You think These Ex-Wayers would open up, "THE WORD OF GOD" and look for the answers
This is sooooo "deceiving" about there "Way", not "seeing" what the "accuracy" of "bible" teaches. The "accuracy" of the "Koine Greek" is a "fact" alone that "proves" the case. The Greek is "the Inspired language" of the New Testament in which it was written to us.
Every Ex-Wayer I have seen teach, The New Testament is not in Greek but Aramaic. If this is true why do "Ex-Wayers" use so much Greek??? They teach this because "they say" the oldest manuscript's are after Nica in 325.
This is totally "unfounded"!
"#P52 papyrus" John 18:31-33(front), 18:37-38 (back) "125 AD. in "Greek"
There is more to add let us move on. First Century writers F.J., J M. wrote in "Koine Greek". Also do you think maybe the LXX "was God preparing the people for the New Testament language"???
"all " reliable Aramaic scholars agree, the Aramaic text is pulled from Koine Greek. The "Aramaic scholar" that Wierwille claimed as his "friend" did not agree to this at all, and that is "Dr.George Lamsa." He believed the "Pedangta" was "Thee Inspired Text".
Whether you "accept his claims" or not, look at the "Lamsa" translation.
MT 28:19
"Go, therefore, and convert all nations: and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Dr.G Lamsa
So "if" The Aramaic is inspired for the New Testament Then MAT. 28:19 is "INSPIRED OF GOD" and this verse "is" in Aramaic and is "Genuine" according to "Dr.George Lamsa" and "his" Translation", and 28:19 is also in "all" major Greek manuscripts so now what ???
'It never was carried out" some Ex-Way people claim this a lot. And the Editor and Chief of the Ryburn Christian Clarion "Ri*k He*ter" claims this as well.
If "Ex-Wayers " would accept the "Inspired Word" they are "forced" to see that 28:19: is carried out. Look at Acts 1:8 "unto the uttermost part of the earth" then peter tells the "Jews" in 2:38, "In the name of Jesus Christ"
Have you ever thought why this Way theology " tries" to delete MT 28:19. Because this verse and others, Dr. ignored he "side steps" this verse. And when this verse is "accurately" divided, the "true accuracy" is a major "threat" to the ways, of the Ex-Wayer.
We can see in Greek the benediction to the Corinthians by Paul in 2 Cor. 13:14
"The grace [of] "The lord Jesus Christ" and the love [of] "Thee God" and the communion [of] "Thee Holy Spirit" [be] with you all"
Look at it in Aramaic. This is "sound truth", the " true accuracy" of "God's-Breathed Word."
"Three" are at question here, notice in MT 28:19 "in the names" ??? no, no, my friend look closer in "Thee Name". There is three names here but the Greek we will see [onoma] "name" not names. Showing us by the usage of this word "onoma" 1+1+1= ONE ONOMA
the "context" and "grammar" of this word is stressing "only one" we see "three persons" of that "one onoma" mentioned here in Mat.28:19 and carried out by Peter in Acts Ch.2,Paul in 2 Cor. 13
So did Dr.Wierwille say, "currant flow" of the context must, "fit remote flow", go to sections of the word where it is used before. Did he "even try" his own theory here in 2 Cor.13:14, Mat. 28:19, what is the remote flow of these contexts ???
"What is more important "the Word" or the writings of "John Doe" ???
Was a reply in an e-mail "we" got from "Dr.John J" around 2004-05 when, "when we were working it". Dr.John J was willing to help, provide Greek textural support help in any way,
as "we" was researching this out.
But Pastor Tad Hobert from North Riverdale Grace Brethren Church in Dayton Ohio, pointed out true "major facts" about the 1st,2ed,3rd Century writers, "post" Nica. and points out the "stile" of writings, and how many times they did "actually" quote "28:19. And the English Translation Proves it as well. The Greek Adds "contrast to it. And every copy he "has" examined or owned, is "not" as Ri*k He*ter was teaching at all." As Pastor Tad hobert points this out in my Living Room. Using his "documented" facts and his "knowledge" of the First Cent. Writings. Also pointing to some "triune immersions" as "he" felt was carried out as well.
We looked at what Dr.John J points out on his web site "They quoted many times with a Trinity stile" Tad agreed, everyone else agreed 100% after the rest of us researched these "true facts out".
Thank you both, Pastor Tad Hobert with Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches, Dr John J with Lutheran Churches, in " revealing" this unsound teaching, that these "Ex-Wayers teach. about " the Forgery of MT 28:19 " ???
Christian Research Fellowship was ran by the late John D Hendricks. CRF. is a Way offshoot That has the same Jesus of the Way
Christian Research Fellowship is said to be a "very conservative" on the original teachings of Dr. Victor Paul WierwIlle. They have a group of trainees called "Lights", There based out of Marietta, GA
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Rev. John D. Henricks in his book titled "God's Healing Word"
Butchers the "Greek" when he Add's a word after he Quotes the Greek in his book.
and any thinking man would see this. I confronted Rich*rd L*e He*ter about this, and Mr.He*ter would not take the time to look it up.
let us look at it.
God's Healing Word p#177
"John 18:19
...and with him others"two" on this side and on that side"
I thought Dr. Wierwille taught when we add to the word we "no" longer have a "translation."
Now look at page 171-172 in "God's Healing Word"
Hendricks Quotes
"Not only does Stevens text omit the word "one":every text omits the word "one": It is simply a dishonest insertion. The Greek words used are
duo enteuther kia enteuthern, meaning "Two"on this side and "two" on that side. " Hendricks God's Healing Word.
Does any one out there see this it is clear he adds to the text. He just said there is no "word" in any Text for "one" and one who believes his clams ask yourself a question where is the word support for "two 2x"?
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TRIUNE_GOD
DR Wierwille forgot something in Philip.Ch.2
Philip. 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be "isos" with God."
Is the word " isos" or "isosceles" ?
Dr. Wierwille points out the Greek word "isos" and gives a English Driv."isosceles" and " IT'S " definition does he even try
to divide "isos" at all ?
If he did as "he taught" he would need to "RIGHTLY DIVIDE"
"isosceles" is not the "God-Breathed Word" here "isos" is.
some Ex-Wayers Teach "isosceles" is, because Wierwille did in JCNG.
What about "isos"?
Dr.George M. Lamsa answers this for us in his "superior accuracy" of his knowledge with the "Aramaic Oriental mannerisms"
also he points out Dr.Wierwille misused the Aramaic in Philip.2
Dr.George M.Lamsa seen Christ's deity in the "Aramaic Phrases" in this Context, and he did just that, Lamsa "accurately divided the word" here. He seen that Christ is co equal, co eternal to the Father. Dr. Lamsa seen "Christ is YHWH."
Notice "Christ is "en morphe theou" look at it in the Greek.
Wierwille said to trace the"word" where it is:
used before
OOO, nnnnnooooo "this is were the rubber meets the road" you do not even need Greek here, you can see this in a Paraphrase.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought moreover to kill him [Jesus], because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said "God was his Father" making himself "isos" with God."
Notice: The Jews knew who "Jesus" was clamming to be, by the usage of the word "patros" [Father] OOPS Wierwille forgot to mention this word in his book JCNG ???
this word is used in a different manner than when it is applied to us, as referring to God as our Father. see the immediate context, And remote flow of context.
Look at it Translated as "as" we can do this according to Dr.Spiros Zodhiates President of AMG International. in the Complete Word Study Dictionary. p782 Lex# 2470
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought moreover to kill him [Jesus], because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said God was his Father [patros] making himself "as" God."
Philip. 2:6
Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be "as" God.
God Bless
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year2027
God first
Beloved TRIUNE_GOD
God loves you my dear friend
I like what you pointed out about Philip. 2:6 being "isos" or equare like
I see a lot of books that were not let in the bible teach when we changed we become the same kind as God but God is still greater
so yes we become like God not God himself but god kind being spirit kind no longer flesh kind
I see like or as both fiting
Dr. Wierwille all so used only the engish word for replenish in Gen1:28 when it is the same Hebrew word as fill in Gen 1:22
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and lreplenish] the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and [fill] the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
then Dr. Wierwille tells us you can not add to God's word and a second later he adds years inbetween Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3
Dr. Wierwille then mocks Simon in Acts 8 for trying to buy the power for leading a person into the holy spirit but he thinks its ok to sale the power
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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TRIUNE_GOD
Wow I an so glad you see he "adds.admit, omits" and yes I see a lot of what you are saying. I see he really messed up on almost everything he preached "everything", I can not find anything he taught was on the mark (just my opinion and others as well).
I really think you are right in that "we will be like him" I was accused when I researched out "the son of God" of saying if I thought that this proved Christs deity, than it would make us Christ or God. One verse they "tried to use" to prove this was
"...to be conformed unto the image of his son" Rom. 8:29
I do admit when I was confronted with this verse, i was locked up at first. I went into the Greek I found that it does not say what they tried to get it to say at all.
Col. 1:15 "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"
The word translated "invisible" is "eikon" Now it has been my understanding that a 'eikon" always assumes a photo type (the orig. from which it is drawn from) In this verse it is clear in the text Christ is "eikon of theou" a "identical image"
2 Cor. 4:4 " ...who is the image [eikon] of God."
Now look how "accurate the word is here about us and the "eikon", and how we will not be a god, eikon of God, or GOD, though the word is clear that Christ is "eikon tou theou".
Rom. 8:29 "for whom he did foreknow he did predestinate to be conformed unto the image [eikon] of his Son.
Notice the word states "to be conformed to the eikon." not be the eikon like Christ is, but "conformed to it"
the Greek word translated conformed here is "summorphos". What I have gleamed from it is "together with, along side the Form of eikon.
In PHIL. 3:21 it speaks of a physical conforming to his glorious body.
"Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like [summorphos] his glorious body ..."
Here i see that we will again we will be made "LIKE unto his glorious body"
the word "fashioned" here to me shows a 'internal change' as the word "change" shows a external one (from what I have learned).
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Lifted Up
Vile act, no kidding. Now I never did understand how much money was involved in my case, but it was bad enough without that factor, even if the deprogrammers had gotten only expenses.
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TRIUNE_GOD
Well I really UPSET up when he took down them posts until here a day ago and said to myself: "well if he did not I would have never found you all and this site" so THANKS RICK ROSS, might have been God getting me over here to GSC lol lol. We got 3 reasons from them why they took them down, so there is a lie somewhere.
"the lying tongue is but for a moment" lol lol
Now to my response, WOW I am glad I never had to go through all that, I just kept reading the Word and searching for the truth, what a statement you all have there.
I read on many sites where he did some bad things to people, do not know if it was true or not but I searched around the Internet. I am sure he has did good, we all make bad choices.
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Lifted Up
Just to clarify; Rick Ross was not involved in my deprogramming, which took place almost 28 years ago. But I can certainly see the truth in the last part of RG's statement that I quoted.
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TRIUNE_GOD
OMG that has became a money scam then as well, so what is worse the Cult or the mentors....sheezzz e weezie
I do know that I found out not long ago the in MT 13 It is clear (to me) to not bash any Ministry whither it is a cult or not. And I felt bad at the time because I was in a anti Cult group OMG how stupid of me not to see it.
there will be a lot of men who claims to be "counter cult" and wow if they would just look into MT 13:29
Mr Rick Ross should open up his bible and look, maybe he has.
"
But maybe I am wrong on this.
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Tom Strange
Triune God: you can get out of your halloween costume now (change the pic in your avatar)... it's scaring the young children!
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TRIUNE_GOD
lol lol lol that is so funny i never thought of that he he. I have had a lot of remarks on that pic. Serously do you thinl i should really change it ?? seems it bothers some, or they may be just joking.
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Belle
From the About Us section of the front doors to the cafe:
Yah, you got a lot of folks here who were horribly abused, destroyed and affected by vee pee, directly and/or indirectly. You do know that he raped and drugged a lot of women, don't you? Some of them post here. Most of the folks here are in some form of recovery or helping others recover... seeing the face of an abuser is not a pleasant thing.
I would think it would be very kind of you to find some other avatar.
Since your name conjures up images of a three headed beast, may I suggest something along the lines of:
I know you don't mean to hurt anyone, but it's creepy. :)
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sky4it
Trinue God:
Yes welcome and do stick around. Yours is a heartbreaking story. Misfits, such as myself, while perhaps not being able to 'blend" have never been rejected here at GS. (well at least not yet) Civil virtue is alive and well in America, but if not, it is still here at GS. In fact, there is so much diversity here, if someone didn't know why we posted, they would probably think we were all univeralists.
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TRIUNE_GOD
Wow he has 3 heads ?? when he told me in his word there is only one Godhead "theotes" in COL 2:9
"in him [Christ] dwelleth all the fullness of the "theotes" bodily"
The word does not state 'theotes' is Plural at all !! and this is the only place this word is used in the NT.
I will try not to make the same mistake Moffiet and Brackateer, Gerber did in ROM 1:20, JN 1:1C,
The word teaches a "Mono God" One God, not three Heads lol lol I know you was just saying what they think. But I go with Bullanger 100%, and Dr. Lamsa (to an extent), and many more on the Godhead. I really think "Jonatheese Greber" in his green phantom translation, really messed this up, for Taz Russel (founder of the Watchtower) in the NWT. (this is VPW got the teaching about it). But i could be wrong as I have been before.
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Tom Strange
Thanks TG, the children have come out from behind the sofa...
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TRIUNE_GOD
I really did not think it bothered people but I guess it did, wow Now I see why people was not talking to me. I thought it was the fact they thought i was a "polytheist" or it was My under arms hee hee lol lol
Thanke for telling me, and BELLE thanks for your 3 headed jesus lol lol I have seen that one around, that one is for a "Oneness' groups, like the "apostolic Church" not me hee hee
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Belle
Thank you very much, TG. :) I'm kinda glad you didn't pick the three headed Jesus, myself... It hurts my eyes and makes me think I've had too much to drink.
I can not comment on your other posts, but, as you can see, there are others who are interested and skilled enough to speak to the topics you present. There's so much great diversity here at the Cafe. You can pretty much find someone to talk about anything.
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TRIUNE_GOD
It does hurt my head too, it reminds me of when I was in the 'Jesus Only" movement AKA oneness Pentacost. and was under the teachings of a Willam M Branham lol lol. Another person that claimed the end of the world was going to come at a certain date.
I can say this about VPW he did show me the distinctions in the Father and Son and Spirit, He just needed to take Lamsas advise on some of this stuff. Although Dr Lamsa was well known by Aramaic scholars, "to think Aramaic was the inspired text". Dr Lamsa did not see the persons in the Godhead either, but said they was different "attributes". But regardless he still seen that there was distinctions in the Godhead, and that Christ and the Holy Spirit had always been God, and they was co-equal and co-eternal.
We all get some things wrong because we are ever learning. Even the guy you all put on in your radio Programs John J. he really pushes the Cross theory on that web site, and he cannot prove it in the inspired text at all !! (that I have seen). He takes his readers to the word "crux" Come on John you are a smart man and to go with the "Lutherans/Catholics" rather than "The Word" ? I really agree with John J. in a lot of areas, but to swing a reader to the "Latin" to "try" to prove the cross theory hummmm Do not get me wrong I personally think the "Cross" should be taught, but to say that Christ actually was Crucified on a wood stake with a cross beam like you see in the Pics, is being dishonest (when it comes to actually what is written) to me.
John I really would like to see how you handle the "GREEK" in this area I am ready to listen, but the Latin is just another Translation like the Aramaic is, you know this John.
Thanks belle I really did not know about the things you said about the women on here and VPW so I am glad to remove that avie.
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TRIUNE_GOD
HERE IS ANOTHER FORBIDDEN POST
Akribos Theological Fellowship. Quotes this on there Web Site.
"By whom and when was the doctrine of the Trinity established?"
Most Ex-Wayers (all that I have seen) Will take you to the Council of Nica in 325 AD. But notice they "leave the Word" and go to the council of "Nica." Wierwille did this in his teaching about "isos" ??? This is a side step, "scared to face the Truth".
If we go to the "Bible" as our "final authority" in all "Teaching" as they teach to do. One would need to ask their self a question, what is "the final" or "first" authority, the council of "Nica" ??? You think These Ex-Wayers would open up, "THE WORD OF GOD" and look for the answers
This is sooooo "deceiving" about there "Way", not "seeing" what the "accuracy" of "bible" teaches. The "accuracy" of the "Koine Greek" is a "fact" alone that "proves" the case. The Greek is "the Inspired language" of the New Testament in which it was written to us.
Every Ex-Wayer I have seen teach, The New Testament is not in Greek but Aramaic. If this is true why do "Ex-Wayers" use so much Greek??? They teach this because "they say" the oldest manuscript's are after Nica in 325.
This is totally "unfounded"!
"#P52 papyrus" John 18:31-33(front), 18:37-38 (back) "125 AD. in "Greek"
There is more to add let us move on. First Century writers F.J., J M. wrote in "Koine Greek". Also do you think maybe the LXX "was God preparing the people for the New Testament language"???
"all " reliable Aramaic scholars agree, the Aramaic text is pulled from Koine Greek. The "Aramaic scholar" that Wierwille claimed as his "friend" did not agree to this at all, and that is "Dr.George Lamsa." He believed the "Pedangta" was "Thee Inspired Text".
Whether you "accept his claims" or not, look at the "Lamsa" translation.
MT 28:19
"Go, therefore, and convert all nations: and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Dr.G Lamsa
So "if" The Aramaic is inspired for the New Testament Then MAT. 28:19 is "INSPIRED OF GOD" and this verse "is" in Aramaic and is "Genuine" according to "Dr.George Lamsa" and "his" Translation", and 28:19 is also in "all" major Greek manuscripts so now what ???
'It never was carried out" some Ex-Way people claim this a lot. And the Editor and Chief of the Ryburn Christian Clarion "Ri*k He*ter" claims this as well.
If "Ex-Wayers " would accept the "Inspired Word" they are "forced" to see that 28:19: is carried out. Look at Acts 1:8 "unto the uttermost part of the earth" then peter tells the "Jews" in 2:38, "In the name of Jesus Christ"
Have you ever thought why this Way theology " tries" to delete MT 28:19. Because this verse and others, Dr. ignored he "side steps" this verse. And when this verse is "accurately" divided, the "true accuracy" is a major "threat" to the ways, of the Ex-Wayer.
We can see in Greek the benediction to the Corinthians by Paul in 2 Cor. 13:14
"The grace [of] "The lord Jesus Christ" and the love [of] "Thee God" and the communion [of] "Thee Holy Spirit" [be] with you all"
Look at it in Aramaic. This is "sound truth", the " true accuracy" of "God's-Breathed Word."
"Three" are at question here, notice in MT 28:19 "in the names" ??? no, no, my friend look closer in "Thee Name". There is three names here but the Greek we will see [onoma] "name" not names. Showing us by the usage of this word "onoma" 1+1+1= ONE ONOMA
the "context" and "grammar" of this word is stressing "only one" we see "three persons" of that "one onoma" mentioned here in Mat.28:19 and carried out by Peter in Acts Ch.2,Paul in 2 Cor. 13
So did Dr.Wierwille say, "currant flow" of the context must, "fit remote flow", go to sections of the word where it is used before. Did he "even try" his own theory here in 2 Cor.13:14, Mat. 28:19, what is the remote flow of these contexts ???
"What is more important "the Word" or the writings of "John Doe" ???
Was a reply in an e-mail "we" got from "Dr.John J" around 2004-05 when, "when we were working it". Dr.John J was willing to help, provide Greek textural support help in any way,
as "we" was researching this out.
But Pastor Tad Hobert from North Riverdale Grace Brethren Church in Dayton Ohio, pointed out true "major facts" about the 1st,2ed,3rd Century writers, "post" Nica. and points out the "stile" of writings, and how many times they did "actually" quote "28:19. And the English Translation Proves it as well. The Greek Adds "contrast to it. And every copy he "has" examined or owned, is "not" as Ri*k He*ter was teaching at all." As Pastor Tad hobert points this out in my Living Room. Using his "documented" facts and his "knowledge" of the First Cent. Writings. Also pointing to some "triune immersions" as "he" felt was carried out as well.
We looked at what Dr.John J points out on his web site "They quoted many times with a Trinity stile" Tad agreed, everyone else agreed 100% after the rest of us researched these "true facts out".
Thank you both, Pastor Tad Hobert with Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches, Dr John J with Lutheran Churches, in " revealing" this unsound teaching, that these "Ex-Wayers teach. about " the Forgery of MT 28:19 " ???
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TRIUNE_GOD
Another Forbidden Post.
Christian Research Fellowship was ran by the late John D Hendricks. CRF. is a Way offshoot That has the same Jesus of the Way
Christian Research Fellowship is said to be a "very conservative" on the original teachings of Dr. Victor Paul WierwIlle. They have a group of trainees called "Lights", There based out of Marietta, GA
Books published
!) Prosperity God's Way
2) Easy to Believe
3) God's Healing Word
4) Power from on High
Seminars
1) Prosperity God's Way
2) Renewed Unto Love
3) Sonship
4) The Living Hope
Classes
1) Foundational
( To Know God)
2) Advanced
(nine Manifestations)
Rev. John D. Henricks in his book titled "God's Healing Word"
Butchers the "Greek" when he Add's a word after he Quotes the Greek in his book.
and any thinking man would see this. I confronted Rich*rd L*e He*ter about this, and Mr.He*ter would not take the time to look it up.
let us look at it.
God's Healing Word p#177
"John 18:19
...and with him others"two" on this side and on that side"
I thought Dr. Wierwille taught when we add to the word we "no" longer have a "translation."
Now look at page 171-172 in "God's Healing Word"
Hendricks Quotes
"Not only does Stevens text omit the word "one":every text omits the word "one": It is simply a dishonest insertion. The Greek words used are
duo enteuther kia enteuthern, meaning "Two"on this side and "two" on that side. " Hendricks God's Healing Word.
Does any one out there see this it is clear he adds to the text. He just said there is no "word" in any Text for "one" and one who believes his clams ask yourself a question where is the word support for "two 2x"?
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