The *just get over it crowd* are simply parroting what we were taught in twi.
I was talking with someone last night, and was reminded how we were taught to be such cold heartless jerks.
We were taught that emotions were 5 senses, things that could trick us into ignoring God. Emotions could be a tool of satan to lure us away.
To display anything other than a carefully neutral demeanor or a simpering smile was viewed with dissaproval. It must have been terribly difficult for a child.
We had this programed into us to the point that people became uncomfortable with emotions period...any display, was threatening ...
I remember too well.....your grandpa died...oh well ...your dog died last week...oh well that is in the past...why are you dwelling on it...husband dropped you to the floor in a drunken rage, forgive him, it`s in the past....why would you not move on???
The incidents given above all happened in the ensuing years AFTER leaving twi.
I think that expression of rightious anger over the mistreatment....Grief over the abuses coming to light...the shame of finding out that we were decieved...
All of these emotions can make people uncomfortable. I seriously doubt some folks know why they get so irritated with posters who are finally unplugging the stopper on the emotions that we bottled up for decades.
Being allowed to feel, to express ones self is just one of those areas that so many of us need healing in, post twi.
I think a lot of the "just get over it" crowd hasn't looked into the depth of their own pain..
maybe they can't.
maybe they see a little too much of themselves in the person expressing grief, anger, frustration..
Although you might be right about some people I don't think you can paint everyone into the picture you have in your mind with such a broad brush. You have no idea of what I personally have dealt with. Dwelling on the past obsessively and negatively doesn't allow you to move forward in life.
I think a lot of the "just get over it" crowd hasn't looked into the depth of their own pain..
maybe they can't.
maybe they see a little too much of themselves in the person expressing grief, anger, frustration..
Right, maybe some don't allow themselves to see it in themselves ... denial is always in the third person ... "he is in denial" It is pretty hard to say "I am in denial" ... or you wouldn't be ...
But besides experiencing the feeling of hurt from some of the twi actions or other abusive actions, the legal system has an avenue for recourse. That is what finally made a difference for LCM at least.
I'm not big on going to lawyers for everything, but I wonder what would have happened if the thousand or so of us that left twi shortly after POP had sought some sort of legal class action ... if that is the right term. TWI assets could have been properly divided as a partial remedy, and perpetuation of the empire by remaining "powers" could have been ended. Considering all the alleged plagerism, the MOGFOT image seems a rather deliberate fraud.
Of course today trial lawyers seem to have become largely scam artists, but I think there was a legitimate case back then, if we all hadn't just walked away and "forgot about it" ... or whatever "we" did ...
Anyway ... hopefully most people have resolved those issues ... I guess some feel some sort of group therapy rehab benefit by rehashing the issues here ... maybe a genuine psychologist could offer an opinion on the value of that.
But to my amazement, I only found out a couple years ago, here at GreaseSpot, that twi even still exists ... :o
Telling someone who is bound in emotional pain to "get over it" is like telling an addict to quit, or a cancer patient to "get well." Uh, yeah, I'd like that! Could you tell me how? It is not a sin to be sick or hurt. Like Rascal said, it may be uncomfortable for others to be around the hurting person, but what a blessing when others love you enough to be "with you" in whatever you're going through.
Getting "over it" is what we should, in fact, do, but it's not merely an act of the will. And repressing it, ignoring it, bottling it, denying it will never do. It needs to be dealt with and resolved. The Lord is truly the healer of broken hearts. As children of God, sometimes we have the privilege of cooperating with the Lord to bless or heal someone. But it's the Lord himself from whom all the blessings flow.
Actually, that's a PERFECT title for a thread, Nero.
For having all been involved with the same group - the experiences are as unique and individual as each one of us. It depends so much on when we were involved, who our leadership was, how old we were, whether the rest of our family and friends were involved, whether we were abused in any way prior to our involvement, what we were looking to get out of it, how far up the tree we climbed, etc., etc., etc.....
Likewise our recovery and how we deal with leaving TWI will be just as unique. The journey will be very different for each of us and no one can know what's best for our own life and growth, so it's rather presumptuous for people to come on here and tell us to "get over it" - "quit dwelling on the negatives" - "take responsibility" - whatever...
I was talking with a dear friend about this very thing last night. We disagree vehemently on how to handle some of those situations. *grin* But, in the end, she has to do what's best for her and what helps her keep her peace of mind - and I do what keeps me peaceful. We still love each other dearly and I'd gladly defend her in a food fight, even if I thought it was stupid for her to fling the first spoonful of mashed taters.
What people, even those of us who have been around the cafe for YEARS - YEARS!! - tend to forget is that there are real live human beings on the other side of these words. There are people who have kids, pets, bills, jobs, loved ones and real life concerns, issues and - most importantly - feelings and hearts. Words do cut through the heart and hurt worse than sticks and stones sometimes.
Some of us have literally cried our eyes out over some of the stuff that's gone on here at the Cafe. We've made real good friends we just don't happen to get to see face to face very often, if at all. But, what goes on here is only a very small percentage of our "real life" if you will. Getting to meet face to face, like at the Weenie Roast, the Texas BBQ, Act2 and the Sud*s meeting in Memphis, my wonderful experiences meeting up with Rascal, Notta, Eyes, Bow, Hope, Radar and others.... There's sooo much more to the folks here than what we see at the cafe and someone who presumes to know what we need is well, still TWIt brained, imo.
C.S. Lewis wrote, The Problem of Pain... I haven't read it yet, but the title causes me to think a lot about that phrase, "just get over it." I've been told that artists shouldn't try to discuss and describe pain. But here I am...doing just that. I'm a rebel at heart. ;)
Pain. We all have experienced pain of some sort in our lives - physical pain, emotional pain - it all hurts. You cut your finger and it bleeds. You react with some expletive, stick the finger in your mouth, taste a drop of blood, and wait for the pain to end. If that cut is deep enough you get a band-aide. If it's deeper still, you get stitches. Way too deep and you may lose the finger altogether. It all hurts. Different people tolerate pain more or less than others, but we all feel it.
The same is true of emotional pain. The first time a friend didn't invite you to a party, or when you got dumped by a boyfriend or girlfiend in middle school, or the loss of a dear friend or friends or a soulmate or a parent, or a deep betrayal by someone you loved and trusted. It all hurts.
It ALL hurts...
We would never dream of telling a 1 year old to "just get over it" (Come on! That doesn't hurt! What's wrong with you?) when he cries after falling while trying to learn to walk. I dare say we all would be appalled to hear an adult even try that. Instead we pick the tike up, comfort and sooth him, and send him on his way to try again - and fall again. In this case, the pain helps the learning process. (Geez! I better learn to walk 'cuz I don't want to do THAT again!)
Now, if you take that toddler and start carrying him so that he never falls again, if you try to keep all hurt from happening - you'll do more harm than good. Likewise if you find a way to constantly remind him of that pain so that the pain becomes more important than his natural development (walking) then you also are harming that child.
Yet we try to take a person in pain and tell them to "just get over it" already...
I see pain like a tunnel that must be entered, traversed and exited out the other side. It's dark, cold, lonely. If I don't enter the tunnel - I'm stuck crawling in immaturity. If I get stuck in that tunnel - I remain dark, cold and lonely. I've got to go through it to get out.
It's a tricky thing to "help" someone with their pain. There's no way to determine how long that tunnel is and you really can't make the journey for another person. Likewise, you can't push a person through that tunnel of pain. You can encourage , empathize, comfort them even - but you can't make the journey for them and you can't give them an express ticket out. The trick is to not make it too easy for them to begin to LIKE that tunnel and start to set up a home there.
I have some painful things in my past that I have shared with a select few people. Other things I haven't shared with anyone - ever. Every now and then, something comes along and reminds me of that pain. I may take a moment to shed a tear or a day to cry and mourn - but then I get up and keep moving forward. Some things come up more often. In the end, I still need to keep moving through that tunnel.
Lastly, pain is personal. What hurts me deeply may just be a "owwie" to you. We all tolerate emotional pain just as differently as we tolerate physical pain. We all have different thresholds.
I have to make sure that I'm not trying to rush the process because that person's tunnel is just too dark and scary for me.
And... I also check myself to make sure that I am actually helping a person move through that tunnel and not making it easier for them to furnish the place. I don't like the idea that all my efforts to comfort are in fact hurting someone.
So, sometimes I don't say, "There there, come cry on my shoulder." Sometimes I put on my clown suit and stand a little further down the tunnel and shout, "Hey! Look what I can do! Come and get me!"
Hopefully that person will chase me and get away from that old smelly moldy couch and get a little further closer to the light at the end of the tunnel.
I'm sure I botch it up as often as I help. Hopefully, in the end, I help someone get through it and not yell at them to "just get over it."
thanks for this thread. I left twi just over a year ago, and anger still comes and goes, but it's much less and I had to embrace it before I could heal. I was such an unhealthy person, and so were my kids. we were not allowed to feel anything uncomfortable for my ex-husband. our job was to make him look good, and only a happy perfect family would do that. if we weren't happy perfect, we'd get "counseled", which meant I'd get lectured on how to be a better wife because I was clearly not appreciating the wonderful man I was married to. yuck.
I was told how I should honor the man that married me -- after all he did me a favor in marrying me -- right?
Barf. I love my husband but I won't do cartwheels and bend over backwards in the name of God for him.
I was told I was ungrateful, unthankful and basically a spoiled brat by the head fellowship director -- all because I didn't say how wonderful my husband was and called him out on his crap (we all have it). Uh...makes me so angry when I think about it.
I would guess that people encourage forgiveness because it is a Biblical perspective. Other peoples actions toward us should not determine our behavior. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person. It is our response, to our love for God and obedience to the scriptures. From the cross Jesus prayed for his Father to forgive those responsible for putting him through the most horrendous ,sadistic, torture imaginable. Did these men deserve forgiveness? Did they repent and ask for forgiveness? Was forgiveness the just response for their actions? And yet Jesus forgave them and asked his Father to do the same, because God reigned in his heart and because of his desire to to do his fathers will. We have Christ in us, enabling us to live the holy life as he lived.
"Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Ephesians 4:31,32
I believe that many times people wrongly base their forgiveness on ,if they think the offender should be forgiven. Jesus said in Matthew 5:43, 44
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Often we hear but he does not deserve to be forgiven, it's not fair ,what about justice? ..... Jesus did not concern himself with justice and God does not tell us to be either. If you are looking for justice in this lifetime you had better pack a large lunch because you are in for a long journey. Jesus committed himself to Him that judges righteously, he is the just judge not you or I.
In the end God will bring forth justice. As people often say ,it will all come out in the wash, and one day there will be a very large load of laundry done.
Forgiveness is not the same as trust, or friendship, to forgive is not to forsake good sense or wisdom either. God never tells us to trust everyone. Trusting and fellowshipping with someone that continues to hurt us very well could end up jeopardizing our spiritual walk with God. Of course this all looks good on paper but the practical application is indeed at times very hard for us as humans. And yet we have the example of our brother Jesus. who forgave the physical abuse the mental abuse, the hurt and pain of which few if any have seen since.
Get over it is a modern phrase not a biblical one per say, we even have a holiday now Get Over It Day March 9th. Getting over it is not synonymous with forgetting it . But it is about moving on in life. My parents are both dead now ,it was a sad time when they passed away, and at times it is a sad time on certain occasions. And yet life goes on one can't remain stuck in time, most days I don't think of it. They would not have wanted me to live my life consumed in the grief of the moment of their death, its not healthy. As Christians we are to encourage others to live according to scripture, and while that does not mean beating someone over the head with them, it can at times include a loving push to get another moving down the road of life other times not. As doojable said it is a fine balance at times what to do. One thing for certain is that those who work in the health industry know that there are benefits from a life of forgiveness and consequences from a life of non forgiveness. The world we live in has a seemingly endless number of ways for causing pain and it's not always easy to take the high road of forgiveness at times ,but it is in our best interest for a healthy physical and spiritual life.
I read the posts of folks who have just recently left twi and are going through the healing process...and that's a good thing. It validates the reason why many of us are still here. To share our perspective and reveal facts that twi has kept in their "lock box". Venting is a catharsis that helps people to "get over it"...to move on and begin living life without the mental burdens placed on them by a cult.
As for me...I "got over it" a long long time ago. It stopped hurting years and years ago...What many do not understand is that there are many of us "old timers" who post here that are no longer in "recovery"...we are no longer dealing with the pain and the disapointment. We post here to help other people....and because we like the coffee. :)
Why do we sound so bitter?...Maybe that's just your "take" on it...I'm really not bitter, I just speak the truth without mincing my words. People shouldn't confuse fatual information being imparted with "emotional hurt"...oftentimes, they read that into it when it's not there...
Exactly Groucho. Having *got over it* doesn`t mean that I don`t get outraged when reading of new abuses, does not mean I don`t grieve when I read of more hurt caused, lives lost.
I think many times the people that demand forgive and forget are simply uncomfortable hearing about this stuff and are not wanting to come to grips with the issues of the ministry.
I think some times that the bible verses are simply an excuse to ignore that which one doesn`t want to hear and address.
I too have 'gotten over it' years ago... I think "newly out" folks, or those thinking about 'getting out', benefit from the stories told (and retold sometimes) here... I think they provide a sort of reinforcement for them that they've made (or are making) the right decision. I know that when I walked away years ago, long before it was popular, that it was so hard for me at times because there wasn't any information out there that I could look to that helped me to know that TWI was not what we thought it was... I just had to believe that what I felt in my heart was right in spite of all of the TWI voices going through my head telling me I was walking out from under the umbrella, that I'd die and become a greasespot... (well, I guess I eventually did become a greasespot)
I think that one can 'get over it' but it takes everyone a different amount of time... and if the telling and re-telling of the stories helps speed up that process... well, as has been already stated, that's one of the reasons we're here... stories get told and re-told (IMO) in an effort to help folks 'get over' TWI or not go in TWI... it's not (and never has been for me) that folks are 'stuck in the past' or can't forgive... I feel part of my duty to my fellow humans is to help them avoid what I went through either in 'getting in' or in 'getting out'...
As being shared, lastly by Tom Stranglove, yeah - I would put it, learn from the past, plan for the future. Enjoy the moment.
As much as you can. Life's far from perfect. I forget to remember. Remember things that aren't important. Do the best I can.
I think GS probably sees good natured people who want things to go well for others and have their own "best" recommendations for moving forward. Posts can sometimes represent flat statements. It takes some time, sometimes, to flesh ideas out to real, living intentions.
So where one person says "get over it" or some version of that, yes, there may be a critical tone to that. But what's the point? If it's just criticism it's going to get old quick. If it's communication to the end of offering the best advice a person can, so be it. The end result is really for a person to get to a point where they are able to proceed constructively.
Adding- I have never felt a recovery process or anything like that describes where I'm at. There's reasons for that, different than others I'm sure.
The *just get over it crowd* are simply parroting what we were taught in twi.
I was talking with someone last night, and was reminded how we were taught to be such cold heartless jerks.
We were taught that emotions were 5 senses, things that could trick us into ignoring God. Emotions could be a tool of satan to lure us away.
To display anything other than a carefully neutral demeanor or a simpering smile was viewed with dissaproval. It must have been terribly difficult for a child.
We had this programed into us to the point that people became uncomfortable with emotions period...any display, was threatening ...
I remember too well.....your grandpa died...oh well ...your dog died last week...oh well that is in the past...why are you dwelling on it...husband dropped you to the floor in a drunken rage, forgive him, it`s in the past....why would you not move on???
The incidents given above all happened in the ensuing years AFTER leaving twi.
I think that expression of rightious anger over the mistreatment....Grief over the abuses coming to light...the shame of finding out that we were decieved...
All of these emotions can make people uncomfortable. I seriously doubt some folks know why they get so irritated with posters who are finally unplugging the stopper on the emotions that we bottled up for decades.
Being allowed to feel, to express ones self is just one of those areas that so many of us need healing in, post twi.
Very well put, Rascal! Yes, it was drilled into us that "feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever" which IMO means that I had to turn off genuine, human responses which for the most part were appropriate, and turn on the switch that recited a Bible verse to "control" my mind with, thereby negating the emotion.
This bred confusion, frustration, coldness, and arrogance. I regret very much having succumbed to that. Thankfully, a person can change that way of being. Thankfully, simple kindness and patience with oneself and others mends the soul...it did mine.
Yes, it was drilled into us that "feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever"
Man, that's just spooky!
I can still hear and see him saying those exact words as he dramatically fumbled with his glasses or notes or something.
What class was that in? I know he probably said it on numerous occasions, but I'm thinking of a specific class.
Here's the really creepy thing--------Someone on the outside could look at that and say," What's wrong with that? It's true."( or at least Biblical)
But what they don't understand is that he used it in a context that demanded we pledge allegiance to the cult because our feelings were insignificant in the big picture of "Word Over The World".
There are so many, many things that might appear innocuous to an outsider that conveyed a unique meaning to the intended audience.(us)
I can still hear and see him saying those exact words as he dramatically fumbled with his glasses or notes or something.
What class was that in? I know he probably said it on numerous occasions, but I'm thinking of a specific class.
Here's the really creepy thing--------Someone on the outside could look at that and say," What's wrong with that? It's true."( or at least Biblical)
But what they don't understand is that he used it in a context that demanded we pledge allegiance to the cult because our feelings were insignificant in the big picture of "Word Over The World".
There are so many, many things that might appear innocuous to an outsider that conveyed a unique meaning to the intended audience.(us)
I don't remember which class I heard that in, only that I heard it numerous times from VP and others (and I probably taught it myself at some point) during my 17 years involvement. IMO, this phrase is akin to "You have no friends when it comes to The Word."
To me it meant I couldn't count on my feelings to be anything of value, especially in decision making or trying to make friends. I understand what you mean about how the phrase may appear to an "outsider" to be "good" but I think they would need to 1) believe that a person could accurately apply verses (usually out of context) to any given situation 2) that gut feelings or intuitions or whatever you might call them are not important and don't carry weight in decision making.
IMO, for my life in TWI, there were many times I should have followed how I felt about something rather than sticking a "positive" verse in my mind or doing what VP said because I believed he was walking with God. Since I accepted the claim that TWI was THE ministry for this day and time, I interpreted my whole life in those terms, whereas had I opened my mind, I could've had a more inclusive attitude towards others (understatement).
For instance, VPW's teaching about turning your back on believers who reject the truth (what he was really referring to IMO was his interpretation of the Bible) meant I should cut off any communication with people who didn't get involved in or left TWI, while in my "gut" I felt I wanted to get their side of the story, not shun them. In such a case, my feelings didn't matter, only the Word as defined by VPW did. This phrase also cultivated the attitude in me that my opinions didn't matter, only what the Bible said or what VP said or another leader in "charge of" me said. Maybe it was just me, but I suspect others experienced this, too.
More directly on topic now, I'll say that I caution myself against telling others what to do like "get over it" since I'm far from being a trained psychologist or counselor. We're all on a very unique path and need different things. In checking out books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassen, I did find a section on Emotional Control, pg. 63, 64 that is helpful, "In order to control someone through his or her emotions, feelings often have to be redefined." WOW!
In order to deny my feelings of wanting to talk with people who didn't believe as I did, I had to convince myself I was doing the right thing according to TWI teachings no matter how I felt. I learned not to trust my emotions. Thankfully, I've undone that indoctrination, but it took awhile to relearn to feel.
Penworks, what you described, I believe taught us to tune out not only our own judgement, our own feelings, our own insights and intuitions, but also the very voice of God...that still small voice inside....all of these things were identified and labeled as Satan trying to trick us and draw us away..
How many times did we fiercely shut those things down because they contradicted what we were being required to do by twi??
insightful posts, penworks!...........thank you for them!
the forced denial of one of the most primal components of humanity, our psycho-emotional "being", was a cruel tool used by vic to "help us renew our minds"......as with so many other normal human attributes, emotions and the expression thereof required redefinition, because, in the long run, normal, human, psycohoemotional response to vic's twisted "training" tactics, would have encouraged any "normal", thinking, feeling, person to listen to their "gut" (as penworks described).........and get the hell out of there!!......but, part of vic's own psychopathololgy included the destruction of normal human thinking/feeling and replacing the resulting psycohemotional void with a pattern which allowed for that subtle, covert control over the people he was "training" in order to "set them up" for his attempts to feed his perverted "needs".....for sexual predation and absolute control over every aspect of his "kiids'" lives!.........please allow me to quote from another thread............
a critical "need" of any totalist system's ideology is to discourage, and eventually annihilate any critical thought among its adherents..........this necessity requires constant, aggressive, attack on the "normal" vocabulary of the followers in order to re-program the individual thought processes to align with the group-think mentality that fosters the reliance upon cult propaganda, which, in effect, obscures from view what the cult is really saying to its followers and the real world!................it fosters an arrogant, exclusivist mentality that sees the exclusion of "normal" idioms of speech as a "sacred mission" requisite to the spread and acceptance of the totalist ideology.............e.g. "the word over the world"!..........it helps to get the folowers to think in absolutes.......black or white only.........no gray or shades thereof!!!..............only "we" are right........."they" are wrong!!!!................it generates a false sense of security in the "rightness" of our group and a generalized disdain for the "wrongness" of all those who "oppose us"!!...................if you don't speak correctly, you will not think correctly!.........if you don't think correctly,("renew your mind"), you will never believe correctly!.........that's why you need "us" to correct your speech, so that "we" can correct your thinking and get you to vigorously believe what "we" say!!!!..................this psychodynamic is true of all totalist systems.............there is absolutely no room for individuality................no room for freedom of expression.............."the household" is your freedom..........all else is "slavery" to the "old man nature"...........so.......the lie becomes the truth...........just like goebbels sneered.................."tell a lie loud enough, long enough, and eventually............"
the same is true regarding the re-programming of the emotions of the faithful......to successfully generate "group think" to replace individual critical thinking and reliance upon one's "gut feelings"......anyone expressing indivuality which ran contrary to vic's doctrines was of neccessity "shunned".......it is required in order to avoid the spread of critical thinking which would lead any normal person to question and eventually reject what "the teacher" was saying!!.....
at the same time, the repression of normal human emotional expression generates dysfunction of the same!..which dysfunction is a necessary component in the
'leader's" toolbox to exert the powerful control over the group necessary to accomplish his wicked "goals"!.............
thankfully, enough of us were able to break the chains of the "mind control" and restore to ourselves reliance upon our individual critical thinking processes and our own "gut feelings" to finally break for freedom!!!..............thanks to god for his grace and help in saving us from the horrible repression of thought and emotions prescribed for us by the "teacher"................"free at last!....free at last!!......thank god almighty, we're free at last"!!(MLK)..................peace.
And everyone else, thanks for your answers. Lately I've felt like the mood here has shifted as more and more folks have joined the "just get over it" bandwagon. So much so, that I was pulling back and re-thinking my own reasons for posting here. (Was I just fooling myself into thinking I was helping anyone?) But threads like this affirm what I truly believe: this place is important. It helps people. Not because of the input of any one of us, but because of the input of all of us combined.
Dan, Groucho... I doff my hat, fellas... VERY well put!!!
I appreciate the validation and insights from so many other people here! If I write just one thing on this site that is helpful to anyone, it's worth my time and effort here.
When I left TWI in 1987 I felt VERY alone. I WAS very alone. Only a handful of others I knew would still talk to me, and that was because they'd left then, too. But we were scattered across the country. So I turned to education and journaling to help me recover my former identity. That process continues to this day. To have been told "just get over it" when I left TWI would have done a great disservice to me because I would have felt my voice was once again silenced. I would also have missed the adventure of studying my life for its lessons. It took a long time to process 17 years of a highly complex experience...I believe I'm still processing parts of it even now, 20 years later.
I do want to stress that what I write at GSC is my opinion ONLY and my reflections on my experiences. Nothing I say is intended to slander or libel anyone or slam anyone's beliefs. I distinguish between beliefs and the process by which a person is made to accept them. [more on that topic is found in Steve Hassen's book] Just my 2 cents...
I do want to stress that what I write at GSC is my opinion ONLY and my reflections on my experiences.
I think that is a very good point to make. I would like to add that the starter of a thread which was opened just a few hours before this thread was started used a variation of that phrase ("I'm Just over it"), but also was very clearly talking about her experiences alone and no one else's. It is understandable if the use of that phrase triggers reactions in some people, but there is a very big difference in speaking for yourself, which she was doing, and telling someone else to "get over it", which she was not.
I read an interesting book a few years ago – so I’m fuzzy on some of the details…anyway…in The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousnessby Antonio Damasio, he talks about patients with severe brain trauma to the portion of the brain that handles emotions – and observed they found it extremely difficult to make decisions….So, from my Christian perspective – I tend to think we were designed to incorporate our feelings into the decision-making process – that’s opposite of what we were taught in TWI.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
49
13
22
18
Popular Days
Nov 15
75
Nov 16
20
Nov 17
15
Oct 24
12
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 49 posts
johniam 13 posts
Eyesopen 22 posts
Larry N Moore 18 posts
Popular Days
Nov 15 2007
75 posts
Nov 16 2007
20 posts
Nov 17 2007
15 posts
Oct 24 2007
12 posts
rascal
Nero, you did just fine.
The *just get over it crowd* are simply parroting what we were taught in twi.
I was talking with someone last night, and was reminded how we were taught to be such cold heartless jerks.
We were taught that emotions were 5 senses, things that could trick us into ignoring God. Emotions could be a tool of satan to lure us away.
To display anything other than a carefully neutral demeanor or a simpering smile was viewed with dissaproval. It must have been terribly difficult for a child.
We had this programed into us to the point that people became uncomfortable with emotions period...any display, was threatening ...
I remember too well.....your grandpa died...oh well ...your dog died last week...oh well that is in the past...why are you dwelling on it...husband dropped you to the floor in a drunken rage, forgive him, it`s in the past....why would you not move on???
The incidents given above all happened in the ensuing years AFTER leaving twi.
I think that expression of rightious anger over the mistreatment....Grief over the abuses coming to light...the shame of finding out that we were decieved...
All of these emotions can make people uncomfortable. I seriously doubt some folks know why they get so irritated with posters who are finally unplugging the stopper on the emotions that we bottled up for decades.
Being allowed to feel, to express ones self is just one of those areas that so many of us need healing in, post twi.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I think a lot of the "just get over it" crowd hasn't looked into the depth of their own pain..
maybe they can't.
maybe they see a little too much of themselves in the person expressing grief, anger, frustration..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Although you might be right about some people I don't think you can paint everyone into the picture you have in your mind with such a broad brush. You have no idea of what I personally have dealt with. Dwelling on the past obsessively and negatively doesn't allow you to move forward in life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rhino
Right, maybe some don't allow themselves to see it in themselves ... denial is always in the third person ... "he is in denial" It is pretty hard to say "I am in denial" ... or you wouldn't be ...
But besides experiencing the feeling of hurt from some of the twi actions or other abusive actions, the legal system has an avenue for recourse. That is what finally made a difference for LCM at least.
I'm not big on going to lawyers for everything, but I wonder what would have happened if the thousand or so of us that left twi shortly after POP had sought some sort of legal class action ... if that is the right term. TWI assets could have been properly divided as a partial remedy, and perpetuation of the empire by remaining "powers" could have been ended. Considering all the alleged plagerism, the MOGFOT image seems a rather deliberate fraud.
Of course today trial lawyers seem to have become largely scam artists, but I think there was a legitimate case back then, if we all hadn't just walked away and "forgot about it" ... or whatever "we" did ...
Anyway ... hopefully most people have resolved those issues ... I guess some feel some sort of group therapy rehab benefit by rehashing the issues here ... maybe a genuine psychologist could offer an opinion on the value of that.
But to my amazement, I only found out a couple years ago, here at GreaseSpot, that twi even still exists ... :o
Link to comment
Share on other sites
anotherDan
Telling someone who is bound in emotional pain to "get over it" is like telling an addict to quit, or a cancer patient to "get well." Uh, yeah, I'd like that! Could you tell me how? It is not a sin to be sick or hurt. Like Rascal said, it may be uncomfortable for others to be around the hurting person, but what a blessing when others love you enough to be "with you" in whatever you're going through.
Getting "over it" is what we should, in fact, do, but it's not merely an act of the will. And repressing it, ignoring it, bottling it, denying it will never do. It needs to be dealt with and resolved. The Lord is truly the healer of broken hearts. As children of God, sometimes we have the privilege of cooperating with the Lord to bless or heal someone. But it's the Lord himself from whom all the blessings flow.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
For having all been involved with the same group - the experiences are as unique and individual as each one of us. It depends so much on when we were involved, who our leadership was, how old we were, whether the rest of our family and friends were involved, whether we were abused in any way prior to our involvement, what we were looking to get out of it, how far up the tree we climbed, etc., etc., etc.....
Likewise our recovery and how we deal with leaving TWI will be just as unique. The journey will be very different for each of us and no one can know what's best for our own life and growth, so it's rather presumptuous for people to come on here and tell us to "get over it" - "quit dwelling on the negatives" - "take responsibility" - whatever...
I was talking with a dear friend about this very thing last night. We disagree vehemently on how to handle some of those situations. *grin* But, in the end, she has to do what's best for her and what helps her keep her peace of mind - and I do what keeps me peaceful. We still love each other dearly and I'd gladly defend her in a food fight, even if I thought it was stupid for her to fling the first spoonful of mashed taters.
What people, even those of us who have been around the cafe for YEARS - YEARS!! - tend to forget is that there are real live human beings on the other side of these words. There are people who have kids, pets, bills, jobs, loved ones and real life concerns, issues and - most importantly - feelings and hearts. Words do cut through the heart and hurt worse than sticks and stones sometimes.
Some of us have literally cried our eyes out over some of the stuff that's gone on here at the Cafe. We've made real good friends we just don't happen to get to see face to face very often, if at all. But, what goes on here is only a very small percentage of our "real life" if you will. Getting to meet face to face, like at the Weenie Roast, the Texas BBQ, Act2 and the Sud*s meeting in Memphis, my wonderful experiences meeting up with Rascal, Notta, Eyes, Bow, Hope, Radar and others.... There's sooo much more to the folks here than what we see at the cafe and someone who presumes to know what we need is well, still TWIt brained, imo.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
I was thinking along these lines today....
C.S. Lewis wrote, The Problem of Pain... I haven't read it yet, but the title causes me to think a lot about that phrase, "just get over it." I've been told that artists shouldn't try to discuss and describe pain. But here I am...doing just that. I'm a rebel at heart. ;)
Pain. We all have experienced pain of some sort in our lives - physical pain, emotional pain - it all hurts. You cut your finger and it bleeds. You react with some expletive, stick the finger in your mouth, taste a drop of blood, and wait for the pain to end. If that cut is deep enough you get a band-aide. If it's deeper still, you get stitches. Way too deep and you may lose the finger altogether. It all hurts. Different people tolerate pain more or less than others, but we all feel it.
The same is true of emotional pain. The first time a friend didn't invite you to a party, or when you got dumped by a boyfriend or girlfiend in middle school, or the loss of a dear friend or friends or a soulmate or a parent, or a deep betrayal by someone you loved and trusted. It all hurts.
It ALL hurts...
We would never dream of telling a 1 year old to "just get over it" (Come on! That doesn't hurt! What's wrong with you?) when he cries after falling while trying to learn to walk. I dare say we all would be appalled to hear an adult even try that. Instead we pick the tike up, comfort and sooth him, and send him on his way to try again - and fall again. In this case, the pain helps the learning process. (Geez! I better learn to walk 'cuz I don't want to do THAT again!)
Now, if you take that toddler and start carrying him so that he never falls again, if you try to keep all hurt from happening - you'll do more harm than good. Likewise if you find a way to constantly remind him of that pain so that the pain becomes more important than his natural development (walking) then you also are harming that child.
Yet we try to take a person in pain and tell them to "just get over it" already...
I see pain like a tunnel that must be entered, traversed and exited out the other side. It's dark, cold, lonely. If I don't enter the tunnel - I'm stuck crawling in immaturity. If I get stuck in that tunnel - I remain dark, cold and lonely. I've got to go through it to get out.
It's a tricky thing to "help" someone with their pain. There's no way to determine how long that tunnel is and you really can't make the journey for another person. Likewise, you can't push a person through that tunnel of pain. You can encourage , empathize, comfort them even - but you can't make the journey for them and you can't give them an express ticket out. The trick is to not make it too easy for them to begin to LIKE that tunnel and start to set up a home there.
I have some painful things in my past that I have shared with a select few people. Other things I haven't shared with anyone - ever. Every now and then, something comes along and reminds me of that pain. I may take a moment to shed a tear or a day to cry and mourn - but then I get up and keep moving forward. Some things come up more often. In the end, I still need to keep moving through that tunnel.
Lastly, pain is personal. What hurts me deeply may just be a "owwie" to you. We all tolerate emotional pain just as differently as we tolerate physical pain. We all have different thresholds.
I have to make sure that I'm not trying to rush the process because that person's tunnel is just too dark and scary for me.
And... I also check myself to make sure that I am actually helping a person move through that tunnel and not making it easier for them to furnish the place. I don't like the idea that all my efforts to comfort are in fact hurting someone.
So, sometimes I don't say, "There there, come cry on my shoulder." Sometimes I put on my clown suit and stand a little further down the tunnel and shout, "Hey! Look what I can do!
Come and get me!"
Hopefully that person will chase me and get away from that old smelly moldy couch and get a little further closer to the light at the end of the tunnel.
I'm sure I botch it up as often as I help. Hopefully, in the end, I help someone get through it and not yell at them to "just get over it."
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
polar bear
Amen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
thanks for this thread. I left twi just over a year ago, and anger still comes and goes, but it's much less and I had to embrace it before I could heal. I was such an unhealthy person, and so were my kids. we were not allowed to feel anything uncomfortable for my ex-husband. our job was to make him look good, and only a happy perfect family would do that. if we weren't happy perfect, we'd get "counseled", which meant I'd get lectured on how to be a better wife because I was clearly not appreciating the wonderful man I was married to. yuck.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Outfield
Again, Potato - deja vu.
I was told how I should honor the man that married me -- after all he did me a favor in marrying me -- right?
Barf. I love my husband but I won't do cartwheels and bend over backwards in the name of God for him.
I was told I was ungrateful, unthankful and basically a spoiled brat by the head fellowship director -- all because I didn't say how wonderful my husband was and called him out on his crap (we all have it). Uh...makes me so angry when I think about it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
I would guess that people encourage forgiveness because it is a Biblical perspective. Other peoples actions toward us should not determine our behavior. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person. It is our response, to our love for God and obedience to the scriptures. From the cross Jesus prayed for his Father to forgive those responsible for putting him through the most horrendous ,sadistic, torture imaginable. Did these men deserve forgiveness? Did they repent and ask for forgiveness? Was forgiveness the just response for their actions? And yet Jesus forgave them and asked his Father to do the same, because God reigned in his heart and because of his desire to to do his fathers will. We have Christ in us, enabling us to live the holy life as he lived.
"Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Ephesians 4:31,32
I believe that many times people wrongly base their forgiveness on ,if they think the offender should be forgiven. Jesus said in Matthew 5:43, 44
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Often we hear but he does not deserve to be forgiven, it's not fair ,what about justice? ..... Jesus did not concern himself with justice and God does not tell us to be either. If you are looking for justice in this lifetime you had better pack a large lunch because you are in for a long journey. Jesus committed himself to Him that judges righteously, he is the just judge not you or I.
In the end God will bring forth justice. As people often say ,it will all come out in the wash, and one day there will be a very large load of laundry done.
Forgiveness is not the same as trust, or friendship, to forgive is not to forsake good sense or wisdom either. God never tells us to trust everyone. Trusting and fellowshipping with someone that continues to hurt us very well could end up jeopardizing our spiritual walk with God. Of course this all looks good on paper but the practical application is indeed at times very hard for us as humans. And yet we have the example of our brother Jesus. who forgave the physical abuse the mental abuse, the hurt and pain of which few if any have seen since.
Get over it is a modern phrase not a biblical one per say, we even have a holiday now Get Over It Day March 9th. Getting over it is not synonymous with forgetting it . But it is about moving on in life. My parents are both dead now ,it was a sad time when they passed away, and at times it is a sad time on certain occasions. And yet life goes on one can't remain stuck in time, most days I don't think of it. They would not have wanted me to live my life consumed in the grief of the moment of their death, its not healthy. As Christians we are to encourage others to live according to scripture, and while that does not mean beating someone over the head with them, it can at times include a loving push to get another moving down the road of life other times not. As doojable said it is a fine balance at times what to do. One thing for certain is that those who work in the health industry know that there are benefits from a life of forgiveness and consequences from a life of non forgiveness. The world we live in has a seemingly endless number of ways for causing pain and it's not always easy to take the high road of forgiveness at times ,but it is in our best interest for a healthy physical and spiritual life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
I read the posts of folks who have just recently left twi and are going through the healing process...and that's a good thing. It validates the reason why many of us are still here. To share our perspective and reveal facts that twi has kept in their "lock box". Venting is a catharsis that helps people to "get over it"...to move on and begin living life without the mental burdens placed on them by a cult.
As for me...I "got over it" a long long time ago. It stopped hurting years and years ago...What many do not understand is that there are many of us "old timers" who post here that are no longer in "recovery"...we are no longer dealing with the pain and the disapointment. We post here to help other people....and because we like the coffee. :)
Why do we sound so bitter?...Maybe that's just your "take" on it...I'm really not bitter, I just speak the truth without mincing my words. People shouldn't confuse fatual information being imparted with "emotional hurt"...oftentimes, they read that into it when it's not there...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Exactly Groucho. Having *got over it* doesn`t mean that I don`t get outraged when reading of new abuses, does not mean I don`t grieve when I read of more hurt caused, lives lost.
I think many times the people that demand forgive and forget are simply uncomfortable hearing about this stuff and are not wanting to come to grips with the issues of the ministry.
I think some times that the bible verses are simply an excuse to ignore that which one doesn`t want to hear and address.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
I too have 'gotten over it' years ago... I think "newly out" folks, or those thinking about 'getting out', benefit from the stories told (and retold sometimes) here... I think they provide a sort of reinforcement for them that they've made (or are making) the right decision. I know that when I walked away years ago, long before it was popular, that it was so hard for me at times because there wasn't any information out there that I could look to that helped me to know that TWI was not what we thought it was... I just had to believe that what I felt in my heart was right in spite of all of the TWI voices going through my head telling me I was walking out from under the umbrella, that I'd die and become a greasespot... (well, I guess I eventually did become a greasespot)
I think that one can 'get over it' but it takes everyone a different amount of time... and if the telling and re-telling of the stories helps speed up that process... well, as has been already stated, that's one of the reasons we're here... stories get told and re-told (IMO) in an effort to help folks 'get over' TWI or not go in TWI... it's not (and never has been for me) that folks are 'stuck in the past' or can't forgive... I feel part of my duty to my fellow humans is to help them avoid what I went through either in 'getting in' or in 'getting out'...
Edited by Tom StrangeLink to comment
Share on other sites
socks
As being shared, lastly by Tom Stranglove, yeah - I would put it, learn from the past, plan for the future. Enjoy the moment.
As much as you can. Life's far from perfect. I forget to remember. Remember things that aren't important. Do the best I can.
I think GS probably sees good natured people who want things to go well for others and have their own "best" recommendations for moving forward. Posts can sometimes represent flat statements. It takes some time, sometimes, to flesh ideas out to real, living intentions.
So where one person says "get over it" or some version of that, yes, there may be a critical tone to that. But what's the point? If it's just criticism it's going to get old quick. If it's communication to the end of offering the best advice a person can, so be it. The end result is really for a person to get to a point where they are able to proceed constructively.
Adding- I have never felt a recovery process or anything like that describes where I'm at. There's reasons for that, different than others I'm sure.
Edited by socksLink to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Very well put, Rascal! Yes, it was drilled into us that "feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever" which IMO means that I had to turn off genuine, human responses which for the most part were appropriate, and turn on the switch that recited a Bible verse to "control" my mind with, thereby negating the emotion.
This bred confusion, frustration, coldness, and arrogance. I regret very much having succumbed to that. Thankfully, a person can change that way of being. Thankfully, simple kindness and patience with oneself and others mends the soul...it did mine.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Man, that's just spooky!
I can still hear and see him saying those exact words as he dramatically fumbled with his glasses or notes or something.
What class was that in? I know he probably said it on numerous occasions, but I'm thinking of a specific class.
Here's the really creepy thing--------Someone on the outside could look at that and say," What's wrong with that? It's true."( or at least Biblical)
But what they don't understand is that he used it in a context that demanded we pledge allegiance to the cult because our feelings were insignificant in the big picture of "Word Over The World".
There are so many, many things that might appear innocuous to an outsider that conveyed a unique meaning to the intended audience.(us)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
I don't remember which class I heard that in, only that I heard it numerous times from VP and others (and I probably taught it myself at some point) during my 17 years involvement. IMO, this phrase is akin to "You have no friends when it comes to The Word."
To me it meant I couldn't count on my feelings to be anything of value, especially in decision making or trying to make friends. I understand what you mean about how the phrase may appear to an "outsider" to be "good" but I think they would need to 1) believe that a person could accurately apply verses (usually out of context) to any given situation 2) that gut feelings or intuitions or whatever you might call them are not important and don't carry weight in decision making.
IMO, for my life in TWI, there were many times I should have followed how I felt about something rather than sticking a "positive" verse in my mind or doing what VP said because I believed he was walking with God. Since I accepted the claim that TWI was THE ministry for this day and time, I interpreted my whole life in those terms, whereas had I opened my mind, I could've had a more inclusive attitude towards others (understatement).
For instance, VPW's teaching about turning your back on believers who reject the truth (what he was really referring to IMO was his interpretation of the Bible) meant I should cut off any communication with people who didn't get involved in or left TWI, while in my "gut" I felt I wanted to get their side of the story, not shun them. In such a case, my feelings didn't matter, only the Word as defined by VPW did. This phrase also cultivated the attitude in me that my opinions didn't matter, only what the Bible said or what VP said or another leader in "charge of" me said. Maybe it was just me, but I suspect others experienced this, too.
More directly on topic now, I'll say that I caution myself against telling others what to do like "get over it" since I'm far from being a trained psychologist or counselor. We're all on a very unique path and need different things. In checking out books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassen, I did find a section on Emotional Control, pg. 63, 64 that is helpful, "In order to control someone through his or her emotions, feelings often have to be redefined." WOW!
In order to deny my feelings of wanting to talk with people who didn't believe as I did, I had to convince myself I was doing the right thing according to TWI teachings no matter how I felt. I learned not to trust my emotions. Thankfully, I've undone that indoctrination, but it took awhile to relearn to feel.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Penworks, what you described, I believe taught us to tune out not only our own judgement, our own feelings, our own insights and intuitions, but also the very voice of God...that still small voice inside....all of these things were identified and labeled as Satan trying to trick us and draw us away..
How many times did we fiercely shut those things down because they contradicted what we were being required to do by twi??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DontWorryBeHappy
insightful posts, penworks!...........thank you for them!
the forced denial of one of the most primal components of humanity, our psycho-emotional "being", was a cruel tool used by vic to "help us renew our minds"......as with so many other normal human attributes, emotions and the expression thereof required redefinition, because, in the long run, normal, human, psycohoemotional response to vic's twisted "training" tactics, would have encouraged any "normal", thinking, feeling, person to listen to their "gut" (as penworks described).........and get the hell out of there!!......but, part of vic's own psychopathololgy included the destruction of normal human thinking/feeling and replacing the resulting psycohemotional void with a pattern which allowed for that subtle, covert control over the people he was "training" in order to "set them up" for his attempts to feed his perverted "needs".....for sexual predation and absolute control over every aspect of his "kiids'" lives!.........please allow me to quote from another thread............
a critical "need" of any totalist system's ideology is to discourage, and eventually annihilate any critical thought among its adherents..........this necessity requires constant, aggressive, attack on the "normal" vocabulary of the followers in order to re-program the individual thought processes to align with the group-think mentality that fosters the reliance upon cult propaganda, which, in effect, obscures from view what the cult is really saying to its followers and the real world!................it fosters an arrogant, exclusivist mentality that sees the exclusion of "normal" idioms of speech as a "sacred mission" requisite to the spread and acceptance of the totalist ideology.............e.g. "the word over the world"!..........it helps to get the folowers to think in absolutes.......black or white only.........no gray or shades thereof!!!..............only "we" are right........."they" are wrong!!!!................it generates a false sense of security in the "rightness" of our group and a generalized disdain for the "wrongness" of all those who "oppose us"!!...................if you don't speak correctly, you will not think correctly!.........if you don't think correctly,("renew your mind"), you will never believe correctly!.........that's why you need "us" to correct your speech, so that "we" can correct your thinking and get you to vigorously believe what "we" say!!!!..................this psychodynamic is true of all totalist systems.............there is absolutely no room for individuality................no room for freedom of expression.............."the household" is your freedom..........all else is "slavery" to the "old man nature"...........so.......the lie becomes the truth...........just like goebbels sneered.................."tell a lie loud enough, long enough, and eventually............"
the same is true regarding the re-programming of the emotions of the faithful......to successfully generate "group think" to replace individual critical thinking and reliance upon one's "gut feelings"......anyone expressing indivuality which ran contrary to vic's doctrines was of neccessity "shunned".......it is required in order to avoid the spread of critical thinking which would lead any normal person to question and eventually reject what "the teacher" was saying!!.....
at the same time, the repression of normal human emotional expression generates dysfunction of the same!..which dysfunction is a necessary component in the
'leader's" toolbox to exert the powerful control over the group necessary to accomplish his wicked "goals"!.............
thankfully, enough of us were able to break the chains of the "mind control" and restore to ourselves reliance upon our individual critical thinking processes and our own "gut feelings" to finally break for freedom!!!..............thanks to god for his grace and help in saving us from the horrible repression of thought and emotions prescribed for us by the "teacher"................"free at last!....free at last!!......thank god almighty, we're free at last"!!(MLK)..................peace.
Edited by Don'tWorryBeHappyLink to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Nero, thank you for asking the question.
And everyone else, thanks for your answers. Lately I've felt like the mood here has shifted as more and more folks have joined the "just get over it" bandwagon. So much so, that I was pulling back and re-thinking my own reasons for posting here. (Was I just fooling myself into thinking I was helping anyone?) But threads like this affirm what I truly believe: this place is important. It helps people. Not because of the input of any one of us, but because of the input of all of us combined.
Dan, Groucho... I doff my hat, fellas... VERY well put!!!
THW
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
I appreciate the validation and insights from so many other people here! If I write just one thing on this site that is helpful to anyone, it's worth my time and effort here.
When I left TWI in 1987 I felt VERY alone. I WAS very alone. Only a handful of others I knew would still talk to me, and that was because they'd left then, too. But we were scattered across the country. So I turned to education and journaling to help me recover my former identity. That process continues to this day. To have been told "just get over it" when I left TWI would have done a great disservice to me because I would have felt my voice was once again silenced. I would also have missed the adventure of studying my life for its lessons. It took a long time to process 17 years of a highly complex experience...I believe I'm still processing parts of it even now, 20 years later.
I do want to stress that what I write at GSC is my opinion ONLY and my reflections on my experiences. Nothing I say is intended to slander or libel anyone or slam anyone's beliefs. I distinguish between beliefs and the process by which a person is made to accept them. [more on that topic is found in Steve Hassen's book] Just my 2 cents...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
I think that is a very good point to make. I would like to add that the starter of a thread which was opened just a few hours before this thread was started used a variation of that phrase ("I'm Just over it"), but also was very clearly talking about her experiences alone and no one else's. It is understandable if the use of that phrase triggers reactions in some people, but there is a very big difference in speaking for yourself, which she was doing, and telling someone else to "get over it", which she was not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
I read an interesting book a few years ago – so I’m fuzzy on some of the details…anyway…in The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness by Antonio Damasio, he talks about patients with severe brain trauma to the portion of the brain that handles emotions – and observed they found it extremely difficult to make decisions….So, from my Christian perspective – I tend to think we were designed to incorporate our feelings into the decision-making process – that’s opposite of what we were taught in TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.