Don't look at the 5 senses

[cman]

You are the derailer mike.

why don't you stay on subject, and deal with the posts on topic

instead of yourself

you will not address the issue

i have in every post

as well as others

afraid you might 'see' something?

Edited October 13, 2007 by cman

[Eyesopen]

Howdy Eyesopen,

I’m not sure we’ve met here. Just to introduce myself, I’m strongly proPFAL. I came here to GreaseSpot with that conviction firmly planted.

I wasn’t trying to PROVE this assertion of mine, that PFAL is God-breathed, instead I ASSUME it. Often here people have mistaken statements of mine as proof of this assertion, but I always try to point out that is not the case.

Hi Mike good to meet you.

Obviously the ins and outs of your beliefs have been discussed previously and I have no desire to get into them here as I think that this thread has been derailed quite a bit already. So thank you for the links that you provided for others.

Now back to the thread at hand...I distinctly remember being taught both points concerning the 5 senses. And in some ways both can be correct.

I think on the topic of healing or other "manifestations of the spirit" one should not rely too heavily on the 5 senses or at least not rely on them for all of your information concerning a situation. As someone already said the 5 senses can be deceived. In healing I have recently been taught that to heal someone you need to focus on the promise of God and not on the injury. You must claim the promise through prayer and trust. But that's just what I have learned and is therefore only my opinion.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Eyesopen

[Mike]

Eyesopen,

My opinion is that your opinion looks pretty good!

***

cman,

I tried looking back in the thread, so help me, what is the main idea you want me to address?

[Ham]

I remember it..

"both men had the promise of God.."

as if the vicmeister thought that he weally weally had revelation or something..

Good thing I don't look at the five senses. I'd probably think he had delusions of grandeur or something..

why these "miracles" have to occur a half a world away.. and to people whom I've never met, and likely never will..

[cman]

F U Mike-

[waysider]

F U Mike-

God "told" MIKE you might say that.

[cman]

and that's for u pfalmike, not any one else

[Dot Matrix]

Yes, DWBH you only have to go through 5,039 posts to find them or Mike could just take two minutes and answer your questions

Whatever were you thinking DWBH?

Tssk Tssk Shame on you

[doojable]

Actually, there is one more source... (Mike used to get around a lot.) This was before the Amazing, Ultimate, PFAL Thread to end all threads....;);)

OK, Once and for all -

Yes, DWBH you only have to go through 5,039 posts to find them or Mike could just take two minutes and answer your questions

Whatever were you thinking DWBH?

Tssk Tssk Shame on you

Dot... Mike never answers anything in just two minutes...

besides, then there won't be yet one more thread filled with that dribble.

[Dot Matrix]

There is a silver lining to everything...

[doojable]

There is a silver lining to everything...

[Sushi]

FWIW, I think the reason a lot of religious organizations want you to "look to the heavens" is, that way it's a lot tougher to see them putting their hands in your pockets.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Sushi

[Mike]

Actually, there is one more source... (Mike used to get around a lot.) This was before the Amazing, Ultimate, PFAL Thread to end all threads....;);)

OK, Once and for all -

Dot... Mike never answers anything in just two minutes...

besides, then there won't be yet one more thread filled with that dribble.

Thanks doojable. I forgot about that thread you just mentioned.

That one was the first in a trinity of very long threads that cover a lot.

The two threads I mentioned in post #74 came after this one. All three actually strung together to make on large thread.

[waysider]

Thanks doojable. I forgot about that thread you just mentioned.

That one was the first in a trinity of very long threads that cover a lot.

The two threads I mentioned in post #74 came after this one. All three actually strung together to make on large thread.

HaHaHaHa!

You heard it here first.

MIKE admits to being a "trinitarian".

[doojable]

Thanks doojable. I forgot about that thread you just mentioned.

That one was the first in a trinity of very long threads that cover a lot.

The two threads I mentioned in post #74 came after this one. All three actually strung together to make on large thread.

Actually the threads don't cover much. They reveal how little Mike thinks of God's Word and how much he worships vpw.

Most of the posts are Mike getting dizzy with his circular reasoning and the posters calling him on it.

Now... speak in tongues while you read these posts you won't be deceived by your five senses... except you have to know what's in them to know all that you can know by your five senses... except...

Dizzy yet?

[WordWolf]

I don't know if this has been an old topic or not (probably has).......but it recently came up in my life.....and I thought I'd get your input on the perspective/perception of this phrase...."Don't look at the 5-Senses"

I know for me, ultimately, that became denial. Denying what the situation is.....example.......getting a cold.....but saying, "No, I don't have a cold"........Or......I have a broken arm....but saying, no I don't have a broken arm.....It distorted for me, what really was......

It recently came up when I was talking to a friend....and it came right out of my mouth, "don't look at the 5 senses" and then later I started thinking about what that really meant. The enlightment that came to me was......don't continually direct your eyes, your mind on your 'Broken leg".....Yes you do have a broken leg, but instead of consistently keeping your mind on that.....you should look to God.....trust Him, read the word about His character, His ability, His love for you, and Know that He will take care of you in this situation. This brings a lot more sanity to me anyway.

Am I on track here??

Appreciate your comments......

Personally I think it's an idiotic notion to ignore the 5 senses.. God gave them to you for a purpose..

The problem I see is when we rely on our 5-senses which in a sense is relying on ourselves rather than putting our trust and reliance in God. I have a broken arm.. Great.. What can I do to help it heal. Ignore it? Hell no.. It won't fix itself.. Yes we go to God and ask for His help. His healing. But to not see what the 5-senses say and take action is like saying I know what to do but I'm not going to do it. We don't tempt God by jumping off a cliff and expecting him to save us, neither are we to tempt God by ignoring the 5 senses and thinking it will take care of itself cause we love God and he'll do it for us.. God gave us a brain and 5 senses to use. But our trust is resting in God that he will ultimately take care of our needs. We don't have perfect knowledge of what's needed, neither do the doctors, and the honest ones will tell you they don't understand it all. Doctors know in part, and we know in part (probably less than the doctors though), but all 5 -senses.. And so we do what we know to do 5-senses, looking at them long and hard. But while we may go to the doctor and do whatever needs be, we never forget it is Him who cares for us, causes it to heal, allows us to breathe and live and have our being. So while we go about taking care of the things that need be to the best we know to do, we realize it isn't us or the doctor that heals the damn arm, it's God who designed the dang thing to work knows exactly what the perfect solution is and is working in the sitution to cause the best to happen toward us! It all comes down to trusting in Him, but not temping him and trying to force God to do what YOU want just cause you want a 60 second miracle and not taking the necessary 5 -senses steps.

Well, just my thoughts.. Who knows, I can be wrong! lol... I thought it was a broken arm, and you said it was a leg.. Shows you how much my 5-senses works! lol

I dunno.. outside of some kind of bizarre Pavlovian conditioning, I don't think people even have the option to not look at, or not trust the five senses..

"I think my back hurts.."

*kzzzorrtttt*

"no, that's negative.."

"But I really hurt.."

*kzzzzzzorrrrttt*

"we don't confess negatives here.."

"but.."

*kazzzorrrrrrtttt*

I believe this was one of the more insidiously evil teachings of twi.

DOn`t look at the 5 senses translated into don`t question ANYTHING your leader tells you to do, no matter HOW assinine.

To look at the impact the actions being required would have on your life, was to be looking at things 5 senses wise...ANYTIME you tried to object to mistreatment, rediculous control, things being requisitioned in the name of God...such as your money, your vehicle, your furniture, your time, your life....you were guilty of looking at things through your 5 senses...

It was the playing card they pulled out any time they wanted to mistreat you...or worse...insist that you mistreat the people in your fellowship, your friends your family members....even down to throwing the kids out on the streets...

Got a problem with any of that???? Renew you mind and quit looking at things from a 5 senses natural man point of view.

I heard that phrase used when a intellectually challenged clergy was intimidated by a mere "twigger" because he was smart. Oh and how he hated it when someone got a degree! (Unless of course, it was his kid.)

WTF do we have senses for if we're not supposed to use them?? :blink:

That was one of the dumbest things and Rascal said it so well, I can't really add to that - it was nothing more than yet another tactic to control our lives: Don't trust your own senses and brain - pay no attention to that still small voice - We'll tell you what to think, feel and do.

[Ham]

Probably a good thing I don't rely on my five senses..

might come to the conclusion that a whole line of mogs and mog wanabes were not much more than sexual deviants and serial abusers..

sheesh.. might get possessed or something..

[newlife]

I am almost apologetic for posting this topic.....my motive was not to start a conversation of conflict, only to verify my thinking on this topic.

I do appreciate the many insights and comments that were made.....it did help!

[Belle]

New Life, one never knows what's going to happen with a new topic. If Mike starts posting, one can be assured that it will be seriously derailed if others respond to him.

[newlife]

Thanks Belle for your post......

[GrouchoMarxJr]

"Don't look at the 5 senses"...Is that like "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?"

[waysider]

"Don't look at the 5 senses"...Is that like "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?"

No

Using the word "like" would make this a figure of speech.(simile)

Whereas

In this case, the comparison is literal. (according to usage)

I wish I could have seen it in the original.(That I knew it to be.)

[johniam]

Don't look at the 5 senses...WHEN????

Many times in scripture God has people do things that go against conventional wisdom. Examples:

1) the elder would serve the younger when Jacob and Esau were born

2) Jacob guided his hands wittingly when blessing Joseph's 2 sons Ephraim and Manassah so that the right hand was on the head of the younger

3) Samuel thought Jesse's eldest son was the next king of Israel, but God refused him

Don't look at the 5 senses. So, I'm not supposed to look at traffic signals? No. If God's word is clear, either by scripture or by revelation, THEN don't go by the 5 senses.

Conventional wisdom is part of the 5 senses.

[waysider]

Don't look at the 5 senses...WHEN????

Many times in scripture God has people do things that go against conventional wisdom. Examples:

1) the elder would serve the younger when Jacob and Esau were born

2) Jacob guided his hands wittingly when blessing Joseph's 2 sons Ephraim and Manassah so that the right hand was on the head of the younger

3) Samuel thought Jesse's eldest son was the next king of Israel, but God refused him

Don't look at the 5 senses. So, I'm not supposed to look at traffic signals? No. If God's word is clear, either by scripture or by revelation, THEN don't go by the 5 senses.

Conventional wisdom is part of the 5 senses.

Conventional wisdom is what was denigrated in TWI because it involves the 5 senses.

[waysider]

When they put people in an unsafe, homemade trailer and hauled them down the road as they did in the LEAD program, do you suppose they did it by revelation or was it scriptural reference?

When the father of two beautiful young children contracted an infection that might have been remedied with medication and they chose to discourage timely medical intervention in favor of ridiculing him for his lack of believing until it was too late to save him, do you suppose they did so by revelation or was it scriptural reference?

Sounds to me like they didn't have a very clear understanding of revelation OR the true nature of the scriptures.

Perhaps "conventional wisdom" would have been the only logical choice.

IMO