Why did we think he was such a "nice guy.." worthy of praise and esteem..
I think for me, mainly.. quite a few people I trusted gave him the respect and admiration he didn't deserve. I thought.. "well, whole world can't be wrong..."
Well, when I first joined the Way, I have to admit they did know more about the written scriptures than I did. So a high regard and even higher.. He knew more than me! So who was I to say, no you are wrong.. So of course, I go along with ewwhhh and awhhhhhssss, until finally I learned more than they knew and had enough sense to realize they were freakin morons who didn't care for anyone but themselves and couldn't figure the basics of Greek or even as simple as reading what is written where it is written with all their re-interpretations saying it says something that clearly it doesn't to those who can READ! and not only that, but enjoyed their moronic state because of their power over the rest of the lemmings.. well, that's when I left...
I caught a show about cults the other night on either the History or Discovery channel. I also watched a show about Jim Jones on pbs not too long ago. Twi is just another self-serving cult just like the others. We were naive and they took advantage of us. At least we got out alive, but in my case they stole 25 years of normal social development.
When I was quite new in the Word, I perceived VPW to be a con artist.
I discussed it with my leadership and was told that my thoughts were evidence of "unrenewed mind".
I was so new, I didn't even know what renewed mind was so he had to explain it to me.
Over the next several tears, as I would recall this particular incident, I felt a sense of guilt that I had even allowed myself to think this of the great "Man Of God".
HaHaHa!
I stumbled into GreaseSpot, one day, and discovered that my guilt feelings had been unwarranted.
I found out that he really was the con man I initially perceived him to be.
Sometimes, in this life, perception does become reality.
What was especially memorable was when I was being witnessed to, I adored the wows, I was invited to see the changed video...The shabby apartment and lack of furniture didn`t bother me....the people smiling and hugging and singing didn`t bother me too much....I enjoyed the fellowship and video very much...I thought ...*MAN I want whatever it is that make these people so happy*.
LCM comes on at the end of the tape......frizzy haired...like a greasy used car salesman, fast talking, high pressure crap. I asked who the heck THAT idiot was...he really set my alarm bells to ringing....imagine my chagrin when I find out a few months later that the guy that I took for a sleazy con was slated to be the next prez....
I was so ashamed of my lack of spiritual discernment ability...how COULD I think that about a man who was so obviously spiritual to everyone else that he was chosen of God to lead his spiritual elite???
In hind sight, I guess that my spiritual discerning abilities were right on the BUTTON...it took years of association with twi to dull them, and learn to block out the very voice of God.
Honestly, I never put VP up on the petestal that many folks did. This is probably because I rejected authority from the time I was a kid. Sure I admired him and all that, even defended his teachings in public. I even imagined him to be an apostle. But I never quite got the doting and glassy-eyed adoration. This annoyed me at times. I knew I could never go Corps. I was in TWI to learn the scriptures and kiss the girls, not to dote over leaders.
With all the hoopla that went on when he came to town or when he entered a room, you'd think Jesus Christ had just come back for a visit. But I doubt that JC would have exepcted the chairs to be lined up geometrically with a string (we didn't have lasers in the 70's), or the marks in the carpet from the brush in the vacuum cleaner to be perfecty parallel to each other.
When I would read the scriptures concerning Paul and other leaders , I didn't see where they were treated like royalty or that they expected to be. I didn't see where Paul had doting servants attending to his every whim. I though leaders were supposed to serve. It bugged me about VPW, but I let it go. I was once told that VP as the MOGFOT "served us the word" and therefore he needed folks to attend to his physical needs so he could serve more of the word.
I was a WOW in Indiana in 77. Our family cordinator once told me that if VP told her to jump off a bridge and kill herself that she would do it. Loyalty misdirected I thought at the time. I surely would not have. No koolaid for Goey. That comment got my attention though. I wondered how many others had that same kind of thinking. It kinda scared me. But I stuck around for a couple of more years till the budding legalism got too much for me.
I recently read a book about Jim Morrison. I was never in the Doors' fan club or anything like that, but I've always liked their music. Jim had a vocal delivery that I found compelling. Of all the bands I never saw, which includes some very big names, the Doors is the one I now wish I'd made more of an effort to see. But the book has some unflattering things to say about Jim.
It was written by someone close to the group and was quick to point out good things Jim did well (musically, on stage, etc.), but he was really an a$$hole a lot. He was always drunk. The 'Soft Parade' album was basically the 10% of the studio time when he WASN'T too stoned, drunk, or otherwise self absorbed to get anything done. That's part of why there's string and horn arrangements on that recording that aren't on the others.
He was also cruel and sadistic at times to those close to him. But I still have Doors music in my house and car. I can play and sing 3 of their songs. He had a good singing voice IMO and only Elvis has been seen more often than he since he died. Not a 100% match, but in a lot of ways VP is the same to me.
VP was a researcher; he borrowed from people, but he also rejected stuff from the same people he borrowed from. PFAL was basically VPs product. IMO it was a good product.
I recently read a book about Jim Morrison. I was never in the Doors' fan club or anything like that, but I've always liked their music. Jim had a vocal delivery that I found compelling. Of all the bands I never saw, which includes some very big names, the Doors is the one I now wish I'd made more of an effort to see. But the book has some unflattering things to say about Jim.
It was written by someone close to the group and was quick to point out good things Jim did well (musically, on stage, etc.), but he was really an a$$hole a lot. He was always drunk. The 'Soft Parade' album was basically the 10% of the studio time when he WASN'T too stoned, drunk, or otherwise self absorbed to get anything done. That's part of why there's string and horn arrangements on that recording that aren't on the others.
He was also cruel and sadistic at times to those close to him. But I still have Doors music in my house and car. I can play and sing 3 of their songs. He had a good singing voice IMO and only Elvis has been seen more often than he since he died. Not a 100% match, but in a lot of ways VP is the same to me.
I can see parallels there, also.
VP was a researcher; he borrowed from people, but he also rejected stuff from the same people he borrowed from. PFAL was basically VPs product. IMO it was a good product.
I could debate whether or not "researcher" really applied, given that his approach
was generally to rely EXCLUSIVELY on the work of others, and the few things
that seem vpw-originals are really gonzo, like the original sin-stuff.
That he borrowed some things and not others is true, but I really don't think that
qualifies as "research" or originality, by itself.
I do agree pfal was his product. I think parts of it were good product,
Right before I quit going to the break off fellowships one of the members was showing an old video that had numerous photos of VPW on it. The people there were glued to the TV set and they placed him on such a high pedestal it made me think that these people put VPW on the level of God. I have been in the homes of individuals who seem to have little "altars" made up of a photo of VPW and some other items related to TWI. There is a point that having too much reverance can cross the line into worship.
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Ham
Why did we think he was such a "nice guy.." worthy of praise and esteem..
I think for me, mainly.. quite a few people I trusted gave him the respect and admiration he didn't deserve. I thought.. "well, whole world can't be wrong..."
just another lemming, I guess..
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TrustAndObey
Well, when I first joined the Way, I have to admit they did know more about the written scriptures than I did. So a high regard and even higher.. He knew more than me! So who was I to say, no you are wrong.. So of course, I go along with ewwhhh and awhhhhhssss, until finally I learned more than they knew and had enough sense to realize they were freakin morons who didn't care for anyone but themselves and couldn't figure the basics of Greek or even as simple as reading what is written where it is written with all their re-interpretations saying it says something that clearly it doesn't to those who can READ! and not only that, but enjoyed their moronic state because of their power over the rest of the lemmings.. well, that's when I left...
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outintexas
I caught a show about cults the other night on either the History or Discovery channel. I also watched a show about Jim Jones on pbs not too long ago. Twi is just another self-serving cult just like the others. We were naive and they took advantage of us. At least we got out alive, but in my case they stole 25 years of normal social development.
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waysider
Perception Becomes Reality
When I was quite new in the Word, I perceived VPW to be a con artist.
I discussed it with my leadership and was told that my thoughts were evidence of "unrenewed mind".
I was so new, I didn't even know what renewed mind was so he had to explain it to me.
Over the next several tears, as I would recall this particular incident, I felt a sense of guilt that I had even allowed myself to think this of the great "Man Of God".
HaHaHa!
I stumbled into GreaseSpot, one day, and discovered that my guilt feelings had been unwarranted.
I found out that he really was the con man I initially perceived him to be.
Sometimes, in this life, perception does become reality.
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rascal
Lol waysider, I felt uncomfortable TOO!
What was especially memorable was when I was being witnessed to, I adored the wows, I was invited to see the changed video...The shabby apartment and lack of furniture didn`t bother me....the people smiling and hugging and singing didn`t bother me too much....I enjoyed the fellowship and video very much...I thought ...*MAN I want whatever it is that make these people so happy*.
LCM comes on at the end of the tape......frizzy haired...like a greasy used car salesman, fast talking, high pressure crap. I asked who the heck THAT idiot was...he really set my alarm bells to ringing....imagine my chagrin when I find out a few months later that the guy that I took for a sleazy con was slated to be the next prez....
I was so ashamed of my lack of spiritual discernment ability...how COULD I think that about a man who was so obviously spiritual to everyone else that he was chosen of God to lead his spiritual elite???
In hind sight, I guess that my spiritual discerning abilities were right on the BUTTON...it took years of association with twi to dull them, and learn to block out the very voice of God.
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polar bear
Rascal-LOY as a greasy used car salesman-LOL what a hoot.
I wouldn't even buy a car from that guy.
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frank123lol
Maybe a kichen sink?
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Goey
Honestly, I never put VP up on the petestal that many folks did. This is probably because I rejected authority from the time I was a kid. Sure I admired him and all that, even defended his teachings in public. I even imagined him to be an apostle. But I never quite got the doting and glassy-eyed adoration. This annoyed me at times. I knew I could never go Corps. I was in TWI to learn the scriptures and kiss the girls, not to dote over leaders.
With all the hoopla that went on when he came to town or when he entered a room, you'd think Jesus Christ had just come back for a visit. But I doubt that JC would have exepcted the chairs to be lined up geometrically with a string (we didn't have lasers in the 70's), or the marks in the carpet from the brush in the vacuum cleaner to be perfecty parallel to each other.
When I would read the scriptures concerning Paul and other leaders , I didn't see where they were treated like royalty or that they expected to be. I didn't see where Paul had doting servants attending to his every whim. I though leaders were supposed to serve. It bugged me about VPW, but I let it go. I was once told that VP as the MOGFOT "served us the word" and therefore he needed folks to attend to his physical needs so he could serve more of the word.
I was a WOW in Indiana in 77. Our family cordinator once told me that if VP told her to jump off a bridge and kill herself that she would do it. Loyalty misdirected I thought at the time. I surely would not have. No koolaid for Goey. That comment got my attention though. I wondered how many others had that same kind of thinking. It kinda scared me. But I stuck around for a couple of more years till the budding legalism got too much for me.
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johniam
I recently read a book about Jim Morrison. I was never in the Doors' fan club or anything like that, but I've always liked their music. Jim had a vocal delivery that I found compelling. Of all the bands I never saw, which includes some very big names, the Doors is the one I now wish I'd made more of an effort to see. But the book has some unflattering things to say about Jim.
It was written by someone close to the group and was quick to point out good things Jim did well (musically, on stage, etc.), but he was really an a$$hole a lot. He was always drunk. The 'Soft Parade' album was basically the 10% of the studio time when he WASN'T too stoned, drunk, or otherwise self absorbed to get anything done. That's part of why there's string and horn arrangements on that recording that aren't on the others.
He was also cruel and sadistic at times to those close to him. But I still have Doors music in my house and car. I can play and sing 3 of their songs. He had a good singing voice IMO and only Elvis has been seen more often than he since he died. Not a 100% match, but in a lot of ways VP is the same to me.
VP was a researcher; he borrowed from people, but he also rejected stuff from the same people he borrowed from. PFAL was basically VPs product. IMO it was a good product.
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WordWolf
I can see parallels there, also.
I could debate whether or not "researcher" really applied, given that his approach
was generally to rely EXCLUSIVELY on the work of others, and the few things
that seem vpw-originals are really gonzo, like the original sin-stuff.
That he borrowed some things and not others is true, but I really don't think that
qualifies as "research" or originality, by itself.
I do agree pfal was his product. I think parts of it were good product,
and parts of it were not.
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hmh
Right before I quit going to the break off fellowships one of the members was showing an old video that had numerous photos of VPW on it. The people there were glued to the TV set and they placed him on such a high pedestal it made me think that these people put VPW on the level of God. I have been in the homes of individuals who seem to have little "altars" made up of a photo of VPW and some other items related to TWI. There is a point that having too much reverance can cross the line into worship.
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waysider
I didn't know VP personally.
I only met him a few times.
Each time he was cold and aloof. He seemed to be "full of himself".
(Stories about these but maybe some other time.)
I don't think my respect was for him so much as it was for the office he supposedly held.
He was never my idol.
He was, though, someone I looked to in expectation that he would set an example for me to follow.
Glad I never did.(Follow his example)
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