There was a time that I considered it "impossible" that VPW was guilty of any of the charges he was accused of. Unhappy disgruntled unthankful former followers that worshipped the man more than God through their self hate brought false accusations against a great man of God! It took several years to reach a place I would even consider our "father in the Word" behaved badly towards our sisters in Christ.
The only thing that was impossible with that mind set was having ears to hear. Then I did the unforgivable to the apologists every where, I stopped and considered if the accusations had any merit and were "possible". The immediate reward for the discovery that a pervert; not a MOG taught the class that was only second in worship to the man lead to the destruction of family and lose of friends and loved ones. VPW had been dead for years and I had been out of TWI for a few years but the then family hooked up with a famous performer from TWI that held both the class and the man higher than the highest.
Is it possible he was what he claimed to be and all this is false accusations? Yes it is, but all the evidence and testimonies I have read and heard make it highly unlikely VPW was any thing but what he claimed to be and sold himself as.
Your post has bothered me as I feel after all these years to have such a person as yourself ask these questions somehow makes me feel dirty, victimized again. Perhaps, because I have always liked you. ..............
Think what you want, I still like you. And although it stings a bit, I am too delivered now to let this cripple me.
Dot, I think you misunderstood my intent and purpose. Most of the questions were rhetorical. A few were not not.
I have been recently accused by my remaing family of "walking in darkness", "thinking evil", and being "separated from God" - partly and mosty becasue of my stand against the actions of VPW. Actions that I stronly believe did happen.
My family's stance is that all of the VPW accusers are liars with an axe to grind. All of them. They hold VPW up as a true MOG with a few human failures common to all men. And therefore with VPW being a true MOG, all of the accusation are from Satan to discredit a man who spoke for God. Logically, this would be an expected if not required response from anyone who held VPW in very high esteem, and with that hard bias, looked to the scriptures as (VPW taught them) for answers. From that point of view and bias, as true MOG, VPW could not possibly have done the things he has been accused up. So logically, they can only conclude that all the accusers must be liars and children of the devil.
For me, since I did not experience VPW's abuse personally, I must decide based upon the preponderance of the evidence and the testimony of eye-witnessess. I did personally experience abuse from those taught both directly and indirectly by VPW. aka Way Corps. I did see ordained & married Way Corps men actively seeking sex with women other than their wives. I was told in the mid 70's by a Way Corps lady, that there were sex orgies and wife swapping going on at HQ and that if you were spiritual enough to handle it it was ok.
I have had a person who was almost raised by VPW tell me that when his parents died VPW took him on a special flight in the jet to tell him that he should transfer the deed to family farm to TWI. I have had dear friends who were once glassy-eyed admirers of VPW prior to entering the Corps, later tell me of the meanness and callousness of both VPW and Mrs Wierweille after to getting to know them both very closely. I have no reason to doubt the testimony of these witnesses. I have read the testimony of many here that I do not know personally. I think most is reliable based upon the preponderance of the evidence.
However, I do accept the possibility that a few folks may indeed have an axe to grind. These would most likely be people who were in a position of power (possibly abusers themsleves) and lost that power when they fell out of favor with VPW/TWI.
As a Christian (not a very good one) I know that bearing false witness is a grevious transgression. I think that accusing someone of bearing false witness when they are not, is probably just a bad, if not worse.
So, in the extremely remote chance that I am wrong concerning VPWs actions I posted my thoughts, hoping for some enlightened dialog to follow.
And real people have come forward with stories of space aliens that sexually abused them, took them up in their flying saucer and did all that nasty stuff to them, etc. as well. Just what was the point you were trying to make?
WTH - There is a BIG difference between a few people that come forward speaking of aliens taking them and experimenting on them and a LOT of women speaking about what happened to them in TWI.
MY main point is:
Furthermore, it doesn't matter if you believe it happened or not.
It either happened or it didn't. There is no amount of disbelief that will change what happened.
Now let me clarify for the Mr. Potatohead with the Darth Vader costume....
Your belief is not required to make what these women say "true." I dare say they would be devastated to sit in a room with you while you go through you rants and smartarse remarks, but then again, they would have to consider the source.
I believe it because I know what was asked of me.
I believe it because I saw my Corps sister (barely 20 years old, IIRC) cry unstoppable tears when she tried to explain how a leader took her sexually at Corps Advance.
I was too young and too naiive at the time to know any better. I told her to tell someone - another leader who we thought we could trust - unfortunately that someone was a person that was not worthy of her trust.
So believe what you want to - I don't give a tiny little rat's donkey , what you believe. BUT while you're sitting there all smug and playing dress-up in your StarWars world, take the time to be thankful.
Be thankful it wasn't your sister, mother, wife, daughter, niece - that was sought out like a sheep for the slaughter and taken against her will.
And after you take some time to be thankful, ask God to forgive you for being amongst the people that would have looked in this woman's tear-filled eyes and told her you didn't believe her. That she must be mistaken or possessed because men of God don't do that. *SPIT*
OH - and what difference is it if you were to meet this woman today or twenty-five years ago? If it happened and the pain is still there - would you be any less compassionate - or just as cruel?
If you really want to believe he was a perfect MOG, take a potato and put a "VPW MOG" costume on him. You'll have him forever in eternity ready to worship at a moment's notice, just the way you remember him.
Hi Goey!.........thanks for this thread..........and thanks even more for explaining for dot and the rest of us why you started it the way you did!
the situation with your remaining family is very sad......i am sorry that their willful blindness is putting you in an increasingly untenable "box" in your relationship with the people on this planet who are the most important to share your love with!...........you are, as of now, no longer able to say that you "never experienced the abuse from vpw personally"........because, goey, you are experiencing it now.......from people who matter most to you!!..........they are saying exactly the same to you that their "father in the word" spewed in the faces of the others whom he victimized.......the same self-protecting lies and the same vicious, false accusations against the truly innocent victims!........you are NOT separated from god!.........you are NOT walking in darkness!......you are NOT thinking evil!........you ARE trying to come to grips with the FACT that vic was a cruel, alcoholic, sociopathic, narcissist........a serial sexual predator and pathological liar.........who molested and raped his sisters in christ because he presumed to be entitled to do so!.............he was a mentally ill, morally bankrupt, spiritual hitch-hiker.......who preyed upon god's children for his own gratification and for "filthy lucre's sake"!!..........i'm not pointing fingers......I'M STATING THE FACTS!!!..........loudly and clearly for all those pathetic vic apologists to hear..........few will listen..........they prefer the comfort of their chosen idolatry to the stark reality of the truth.............they will twist and distort and "privately interpret" their bibles while they accuse the victims of lying or having some "axe to grind"............
that's why i respect those here at the spot who have "gone on record" with the facts concerning the abuse they suffered at the hands of their "father in the word"!.....because......his perverse doctrines and practices reach beyond his grave to attack god's children to this day......but those who speak up, enduring the spiteful wrath of the self-blinded apologists.....provide the validation that you and hundreds of others like you need in order to accept the FACTS......and undo the snare of the devil that twi is to this day!..............again......i'm sorry you have to deal with people you love who refuse to love you back because you refuse to deny reality.....don't quit loving them goey......but don't quit on yourself either..........enjoy the company here at the spot.......keep reading and keep posting........
know that there are many here who are praying for you in whatever ways they pray...............keep on keepin' on brother!!........................peace!
you ARE trying to come to grips with the FACT that vic was a cruel, alcoholic, sociopathic, narcissist........a serial sexual predator and pathological liar.........who molested and raped his sisters in christ because he presumed to be entitled to do so!.............he was a mentally ill, morally bankrupt, spiritual hitch-hiker.......who preyed upon god's children for his own gratification and for "filthy lucre's sake"!!
Tell us how you really feel --- I sense you are holding back.... LOL
.... I believe it because I saw my Corps sister (barely 20 years old, IIRC) cry unstoppable tears when she tried to explain how a leader took her sexually at Corps Advance. ......
I have also seen people claim to be sexually abused by space aliens.
AND .... I really do believe they were sexually abused. WHY?
Because they start to break down and get --- REAL teary eyed --- whenever they start telling their story of how this damn, @#$%^(use whatever expletive you want) space alien took them sexually and - and - and - YOU BETTER BELIEVE ME BECAUSE I SAW THEM CRY UNSTOPPABLE TEARS!
Maybe someone is 'BOO WHOing" on you? ... and all the rest of that emotional outburst proves .... ?
What all this story telling proves is that there are some people only interested in hearing one-sided stories by others whom we are ultimately led to believe are all the time ... how should one put it? -- while all the time one is being led to believe the other person is - Hmmmm ... just how should one put it? .
Why do they make someone else out to be the demon but never themselves, of course?
Because there are NO demons in the real world.
(Except for those of us out here among the space aliens. We're all hiding under that "Sith Lord's" helmet!)
Just where is Orson Welles when you need him?
(Orson Welles gained wide notoriety for his October 30, 1938 radio broadcast of H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds. Adapted to sound like a real news broadcast, it caused a large number of listeners to panic. Welles subsequently claimed he was exposing the gullibility of American audiences.)
Yep Orson, I'd say the audience today is still very gullible - even in 2007.
If VPW did not abuse /rape women, then those who have claimed he did have born false witness against him. They are all liars.
If VPW did abuse/rape, women as has been claimed, then he could not possibly have been the MOG that many of us believed him to be and his ministry was void of any blessing from God.
To me the evidence is overwhelming that VPW was not the MOG we believed him to be.
The testimonly of the women who claimed they were abused by VPW is just a fraction of that evidence. When other evidence is brought to bear, a clear pattern of dishonesty and sociopathic behavior emerges. When a scociopath is in a position of nearly unlimited power, abuse will almost always happen. This lends even more credibility to the testimony of those who have spoken out has having been abused by VPW. In other words the charges line up with what is likely when a sociopath is in a position of power and trust.
WTH you are a hoot. I suspect that you were abducted by aliens and deeply probed repeatedly. Maybe if you shed a few tears it would help you to come to grips with it. Aaaah .... but maybe that pain is all behind you.
that's why i respect those here at the spot who have "gone on record" with the facts concerning the abuse they suffered at the hands of their "father in the word"!.....because......his perverse doctrines and practices reach beyond his grave to attack god's children to this day......but those who speak up, enduring the spiteful wrath of the self-blinded apologists.....provide the validation that you and hundreds of others like you need in order to accept the FACTS......and undo the snare of the devil that twi is to this day!..............
IMO, that's why GS is so vital......it gives all of us *a voice* to share our experiences of ANOTHER twi -- the one that is propounded in their slick way mags or pre-rehearsed sunday teachings or manicured grounds........all giving off a public relations persona that this is "god's ministry." For me, Waydale and GS have validated my inner-doubts of veepee when I first saw him back in '74.
To me......it is NOT possible that wierwille was who twi proclaimed him to be.
Maybe, it took going into the corps for me to confirm this......seeing wierwille's treatment of "his kids"......seeing him bask in the spotlight of his "teaching glory".......seeing him sip his drambuie.........seeing him rail like an abusive father over the most petty incident.......seeing his body guard and valet front for him and cover for his screw-ups........seeing vpw delight in the upper-most seat and lauded with celebrity status like some modern-day pharisee or whatever.........and after corps and an hq-staff assignment, NOT ONCE did I ever see wierwille in a situation where I would classify it as a sign, a miracle or a wonder.
To me......any mystical remnants of "wierwille as the man of god" have vanished.
WTH you are a hoot. I suspect that you were abducted by aliens and deeply probed repeatedly. Maybe if you shed a few tears it would help you to come to grips with it. Aaaah .... but maybe that pain is all behind you.
I have met some alien probed claiming witnesses and they all had one thing in common, the lights were on and no one was home. Many were some of the nicest homeless bag people I have ever met.
What an under-handed way to call the victims of VPW’s sexual perversion liars and insane. It’s very unfortunate that VPW didn’t work at keeping “it” in his pants as hard as his worshippers work to claim he did…………..
And Bessie the cow wants to be stump broke!
Perhaps the male defenders and apologists secretly wish they could be like their hero and have sex with many young beautiful teen and early 20 something women. Maybe they ask themselves "what's wrong with that"?
What all this story telling proves is that there are some people only interested in hearing one-sided stories by others whom we are ultimately led to believe are all the time ... how should one put it? -- while all the time one is being led to believe the other person is - Hmmmm ... just how should one put it? .
Why do they make someone else out to be the demon but never themselves, of course.
Because there are NO demons in the real world.
You know WTH - you have NO idea what you're talking about here.
I sat on that story for over 20 years, simply because while I believed my friend, I also didn't have much more information than what she gave me. (She was sooo distraught that I didn't get much information - hence, why I told her to seek someone we both thought we could trust.)
BUT - when the story got corroborated by more than one independent source I was able to put it in its proper perspective.
Oh and there are demons in the real world....some would say I just posted a reply to one of them.
Pretend you're a Lord Sith all you want... it's really just another mask.
Perhaps the male defenders and apologists secretly wish they could be like their hero and have sex with many young beautiful teen and early 20 something women. Maybe they ask themselves "what's wrong with that"?
For some perhaps, I can see the logic in that.
Maybe they were passed over for "promotion"..
Maybe they can't figure why some moron wearing tights, with the sexual proclivities of a Guinea Pig, prancing about on stage got the position that truly should have been theirs..
only thing.. the position and "honor" included a pair of tights..
Perhaps some of the jokers should have had a shot at it.. probably would have brought earlier destruction to da "ministry" and kept a lot of people from a lot more grief..
I wonder if loy was the "best" the vicster had..
managed to fuel the "beast" for what.. about fifteen years longer?
Well, they say that if you put a thousand monkeys to work pecking at typewriters and gave them unlimited time, eventually one ot them would write WAR & PEACE. But what are the odds really?
Well, I'm comfortable with "zero", about the same odds I'd give for the apologists' view of Wierwillism having any credence...
I have also seen people claim to be sexually abused by space aliens.
AND .... I really do believe they were sexually abused. WHY?
Because they start to break down and get --- REAL teary eyed --- whenever they start telling their story of how this damn, @#$%^(use whatever expletive you want) space alien took them sexually and - and - and - YOU BETTER BELIEVE ME BECAUSE I SAW THEM CRY UNSTOPPABLE TEARS!
Maybe someone is 'BOO WHOing" on you? ... and all the rest of that emotional outburst proves .... ?
[Aren't the rest of you abundantly blessed and thankful that WTH does not work in your local law-enforcement?
Apparently, the substance of everything they said doesn't even exist for vpw-
just that they got emotional.
DUH.
Any cop could tell you, someone being emotional- IN AND OF ITSELF- tells you little.
But any cop could tell you, someone being emotional IS NOT REASON TO DISCOUNT WHAT THEY SAY.
That's when you actually exert the effort to see if what they're saying is TRUE.
For WTH, however, this is the time to STOP looking, since emotion=lying.]
What all this story telling proves is that there are some people only interested in hearing one-sided stories by others whom we are ultimately led to believe are all the time ... how should one put it? -- while all the time one is being led to believe the other person is - Hmmmm ... just how should one put it? .
Why do they make someone else out to be the demon but never themselves, of course?
[What this reply proves is that there are some people who automatically disbelieve what they hear,
without bothering to look into them,
and extrapolate from that to conclude that everyone ELSE exerts as little effort- and as little THINKING-
when determining if a story is true.
Why do they make someone else out to be foolish, but never wonder if it's THEM that's sloppy mentally?
(Vanity, laziness...)]
Yep Orson, I'd say the audience today is still very gullible - even in 2007.
[Considering what some people are gullible enough to accept without UNDERSTANDING,
I'd say there ARE still gullible people nowadays.]
[Any cop could tell you, someone being emotional- IN AND OF ITSELF- tells you little.
But any cop could tell you, someone being emotional IS NOT REASON TO DISCOUNT WHAT THEY SAY.
That's when you actually exert the effort to see if what they're saying is TRUE.
Good suggestion, WW. being emotional does not prove or disprove sexual abuse, among other things. Of course I assume that cop is dealing with the emotional person in question, and not someone talking about someone else being emotional.
So logically, they can only conclude that all the accusers must be liars and children of the devil.
...
Hope that makes sense.
That statement doesn't make sense. To the best of my knowledge Way believers don't go around accusing born again believers of being children of the devil.
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excathedra
dot, i didn't read goey the way you did at all
love,ex
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Ductape
There was a time that I considered it "impossible" that VPW was guilty of any of the charges he was accused of. Unhappy disgruntled unthankful former followers that worshipped the man more than God through their self hate brought false accusations against a great man of God! It took several years to reach a place I would even consider our "father in the Word" behaved badly towards our sisters in Christ.
The only thing that was impossible with that mind set was having ears to hear. Then I did the unforgivable to the apologists every where, I stopped and considered if the accusations had any merit and were "possible". The immediate reward for the discovery that a pervert; not a MOG taught the class that was only second in worship to the man lead to the destruction of family and lose of friends and loved ones. VPW had been dead for years and I had been out of TWI for a few years but the then family hooked up with a famous performer from TWI that held both the class and the man higher than the highest.
Is it possible he was what he claimed to be and all this is false accusations? Yes it is, but all the evidence and testimonies I have read and heard make it highly unlikely VPW was any thing but what he claimed to be and sold himself as.
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Goey
Dot, I think you misunderstood my intent and purpose. Most of the questions were rhetorical. A few were not not.
I have been recently accused by my remaing family of "walking in darkness", "thinking evil", and being "separated from God" - partly and mosty becasue of my stand against the actions of VPW. Actions that I stronly believe did happen.
My family's stance is that all of the VPW accusers are liars with an axe to grind. All of them. They hold VPW up as a true MOG with a few human failures common to all men. And therefore with VPW being a true MOG, all of the accusation are from Satan to discredit a man who spoke for God. Logically, this would be an expected if not required response from anyone who held VPW in very high esteem, and with that hard bias, looked to the scriptures as (VPW taught them) for answers. From that point of view and bias, as true MOG, VPW could not possibly have done the things he has been accused up. So logically, they can only conclude that all the accusers must be liars and children of the devil.
For me, since I did not experience VPW's abuse personally, I must decide based upon the preponderance of the evidence and the testimony of eye-witnessess. I did personally experience abuse from those taught both directly and indirectly by VPW. aka Way Corps. I did see ordained & married Way Corps men actively seeking sex with women other than their wives. I was told in the mid 70's by a Way Corps lady, that there were sex orgies and wife swapping going on at HQ and that if you were spiritual enough to handle it it was ok.
I have had a person who was almost raised by VPW tell me that when his parents died VPW took him on a special flight in the jet to tell him that he should transfer the deed to family farm to TWI. I have had dear friends who were once glassy-eyed admirers of VPW prior to entering the Corps, later tell me of the meanness and callousness of both VPW and Mrs Wierweille after to getting to know them both very closely. I have no reason to doubt the testimony of these witnesses. I have read the testimony of many here that I do not know personally. I think most is reliable based upon the preponderance of the evidence.
However, I do accept the possibility that a few folks may indeed have an axe to grind. These would most likely be people who were in a position of power (possibly abusers themsleves) and lost that power when they fell out of favor with VPW/TWI.
As a Christian (not a very good one) I know that bearing false witness is a grevious transgression. I think that accusing someone of bearing false witness when they are not, is probably just a bad, if not worse.
So, in the extremely remote chance that I am wrong concerning VPWs actions I posted my thoughts, hoping for some enlightened dialog to follow.
Hope that makes sense.
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cman
for what it's worth
i thought you put it well
the 'what ifs' and 'is it possible' is a good thinking tool
i posted the other side of the coin
-what if the opposite is true-
not knowing what you were up to..lol
so great job on putting it 'in the air'
you got quite a few diverse thoughts
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doojable
WTH - There is a BIG difference between a few people that come forward speaking of aliens taking them and experimenting on them and a LOT of women speaking about what happened to them in TWI.
MY main point is:
Now let me clarify for the Mr. Potatohead with the Darth Vader costume....
Your belief is not required to make what these women say "true." I dare say they would be devastated to sit in a room with you while you go through you rants and smartarse remarks, but then again, they would have to consider the source.
I believe it because I know what was asked of me.
I believe it because I saw my Corps sister (barely 20 years old, IIRC) cry unstoppable tears when she tried to explain how a leader took her sexually at Corps Advance.
I was too young and too naiive at the time to know any better. I told her to tell someone - another leader who we thought we could trust - unfortunately that someone was a person that was not worthy of her trust.
So believe what you want to - I don't give a tiny little rat's donkey , what you believe. BUT while you're sitting there all smug and playing dress-up in your StarWars world, take the time to be thankful.
Be thankful it wasn't your sister, mother, wife, daughter, niece - that was sought out like a sheep for the slaughter and taken against her will.
And after you take some time to be thankful, ask God to forgive you for being amongst the people that would have looked in this woman's tear-filled eyes and told her you didn't believe her. That she must be mistaken or possessed because men of God don't do that. *SPIT*
OH - and what difference is it if you were to meet this woman today or twenty-five years ago? If it happened and the pain is still there - would you be any less compassionate - or just as cruel?
If you really want to believe he was a perfect MOG, take a potato and put a "VPW MOG" costume on him. You'll have him forever in eternity ready to worship at a moment's notice, just the way you remember him.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi Goey!.........thanks for this thread..........and thanks even more for explaining for dot and the rest of us why you started it the way you did!
the situation with your remaining family is very sad......i am sorry that their willful blindness is putting you in an increasingly untenable "box" in your relationship with the people on this planet who are the most important to share your love with!...........you are, as of now, no longer able to say that you "never experienced the abuse from vpw personally"........because, goey, you are experiencing it now.......from people who matter most to you!!..........they are saying exactly the same to you that their "father in the word" spewed in the faces of the others whom he victimized.......the same self-protecting lies and the same vicious, false accusations against the truly innocent victims!........you are NOT separated from god!.........you are NOT walking in darkness!......you are NOT thinking evil!........you ARE trying to come to grips with the FACT that vic was a cruel, alcoholic, sociopathic, narcissist........a serial sexual predator and pathological liar.........who molested and raped his sisters in christ because he presumed to be entitled to do so!.............he was a mentally ill, morally bankrupt, spiritual hitch-hiker.......who preyed upon god's children for his own gratification and for "filthy lucre's sake"!!..........i'm not pointing fingers......I'M STATING THE FACTS!!!..........loudly and clearly for all those pathetic vic apologists to hear..........few will listen..........they prefer the comfort of their chosen idolatry to the stark reality of the truth.............they will twist and distort and "privately interpret" their bibles while they accuse the victims of lying or having some "axe to grind"............
that's why i respect those here at the spot who have "gone on record" with the facts concerning the abuse they suffered at the hands of their "father in the word"!.....because......his perverse doctrines and practices reach beyond his grave to attack god's children to this day......but those who speak up, enduring the spiteful wrath of the self-blinded apologists.....provide the validation that you and hundreds of others like you need in order to accept the FACTS......and undo the snare of the devil that twi is to this day!..............again......i'm sorry you have to deal with people you love who refuse to love you back because you refuse to deny reality.....don't quit loving them goey......but don't quit on yourself either..........enjoy the company here at the spot.......keep reading and keep posting........
know that there are many here who are praying for you in whatever ways they pray...............keep on keepin' on brother!!........................peace!
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Ham
explains the gills and fish type lips..
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Dot Matrix
Thanks GOEY
I did not see your post in that light, it did shock me as you have always been such a support and I felt we were in the same camp.
For a minute there, I thought you were at Mike's drinking the water...
I am sorry about the family.
I love you
Dot
edited for clarity
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Dot Matrix
Gee Don- (DWBH)
Tell us how you really feel --- I sense you are holding back.... LOL
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What The Hey
I have also seen people claim to be sexually abused by space aliens.
AND .... I really do believe they were sexually abused. WHY?
Because they start to break down and get --- REAL teary eyed --- whenever they start telling their story of how this damn, @#$%^(use whatever expletive you want) space alien took them sexually and - and - and - YOU BETTER BELIEVE ME BECAUSE I SAW THEM CRY UNSTOPPABLE TEARS!
Maybe someone is 'BOO WHOing" on you? ... and all the rest of that emotional outburst proves .... ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What all this story telling proves is that there are some people only interested in hearing one-sided stories by others whom we are ultimately led to believe are all the time ... how should one put it?
-- while all the time one is being led to believe the other person is - Hmmmm ... just how should one put it? 
.
Why do they make someone else out to be the demon but never themselves, of course?
Because there are NO demons in the real world.
(Except for those of us out here among the space aliens. We're all hiding under that "Sith Lord's" helmet!)
Just where is Orson Welles when you need him?
(Orson Welles gained wide notoriety for his October 30, 1938 radio broadcast of H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds. Adapted to sound like a real news broadcast, it caused a large number of listeners to panic. Welles subsequently claimed he was exposing the gullibility of American audiences.)
Yep Orson, I'd say the audience today is still very gullible - even in 2007.
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Goey
For me it boils down to this.
If VPW did not abuse /rape women, then those who have claimed he did have born false witness against him. They are all liars.
If VPW did abuse/rape, women as has been claimed, then he could not possibly have been the MOG that many of us believed him to be and his ministry was void of any blessing from God.
To me the evidence is overwhelming that VPW was not the MOG we believed him to be.
The testimonly of the women who claimed they were abused by VPW is just a fraction of that evidence. When other evidence is brought to bear, a clear pattern of dishonesty and sociopathic behavior emerges. When a scociopath is in a position of nearly unlimited power, abuse will almost always happen. This lends even more credibility to the testimony of those who have spoken out has having been abused by VPW. In other words the charges line up with what is likely when a sociopath is in a position of power and trust.
WTH you are a hoot. I suspect that you were abducted by aliens and deeply probed repeatedly. Maybe if you shed a few tears it would help you to come to grips with it. Aaaah .... but maybe that pain is all behind you.
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Ham
I can see the logic in this..
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skyrider
IMO, that's why GS is so vital......it gives all of us *a voice* to share our experiences of ANOTHER twi -- the one that is propounded in their slick way mags or pre-rehearsed sunday teachings or manicured grounds........all giving off a public relations persona that this is "god's ministry." For me, Waydale and GS have validated my inner-doubts of veepee when I first saw him back in '74.
To me......it is NOT possible that wierwille was who twi proclaimed him to be.
Maybe, it took going into the corps for me to confirm this......seeing wierwille's treatment of "his kids"......seeing him bask in the spotlight of his "teaching glory".......seeing him sip his drambuie.........seeing him rail like an abusive father over the most petty incident.......seeing his body guard and valet front for him and cover for his screw-ups........seeing vpw delight in the upper-most seat and lauded with celebrity status like some modern-day pharisee or whatever.........and after corps and an hq-staff assignment, NOT ONCE did I ever see wierwille in a situation where I would classify it as a sign, a miracle or a wonder.
To me......any mystical remnants of "wierwille as the man of god" have vanished.
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Ham
I think some people have a fear losing their illusion in a manner not unlike a horrible fear of death..
Seems they bargain for their illusion, defend it's supposed honor..
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Ductape
I have met some alien probed claiming witnesses and they all had one thing in common, the lights were on and no one was home. Many were some of the nicest homeless bag people I have ever met.
What an under-handed way to call the victims of VPW’s sexual perversion liars and insane. It’s very unfortunate that VPW didn’t work at keeping “it” in his pants as hard as his worshippers work to claim he did…………..
And Bessie the cow wants to be stump broke!
Perhaps the male defenders and apologists secretly wish they could be like their hero and have sex with many young beautiful teen and early 20 something women. Maybe they ask themselves "what's wrong with that"?
It's called perversion...........
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doojable
You know WTH - you have NO idea what you're talking about here.
I sat on that story for over 20 years, simply because while I believed my friend, I also didn't have much more information than what she gave me. (She was sooo distraught that I didn't get much information - hence, why I told her to seek someone we both thought we could trust.)
BUT - when the story got corroborated by more than one independent source I was able to put it in its proper perspective.
Oh and there are demons in the real world....some would say I just posted a reply to one of them.
Pretend you're a Lord Sith all you want... it's really just another mask.
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Ham
For some perhaps, I can see the logic in that.
Maybe they were passed over for "promotion"..
Maybe they can't figure why some moron wearing tights, with the sexual proclivities of a Guinea Pig, prancing about on stage got the position that truly should have been theirs..
only thing.. the position and "honor" included a pair of tights..
Perhaps some of the jokers should have had a shot at it.. probably would have brought earlier destruction to da "ministry" and kept a lot of people from a lot more grief..
I wonder if loy was the "best" the vicster had..
managed to fuel the "beast" for what.. about fifteen years longer?
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Dot Matrix
Gosh WTH
Aliens?
Do you roll your own or get it on the corner?
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George Aar
Well, they say that if you put a thousand monkeys to work pecking at typewriters and gave them unlimited time, eventually one ot them would write WAR & PEACE. But what are the odds really?
Well, I'm comfortable with "zero", about the same odds I'd give for the apologists' view of Wierwillism having any credence...
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WordWolf
[Aren't the rest of you abundantly blessed and thankful that WTH does not work in your local law-enforcement?
Apparently, the substance of everything they said doesn't even exist for vpw-
just that they got emotional.
DUH.
Any cop could tell you, someone being emotional- IN AND OF ITSELF- tells you little.
But any cop could tell you, someone being emotional IS NOT REASON TO DISCOUNT WHAT THEY SAY.
That's when you actually exert the effort to see if what they're saying is TRUE.
For WTH, however, this is the time to STOP looking, since emotion=lying.]
[What this reply proves is that there are some people who automatically disbelieve what they hear,
without bothering to look into them,
and extrapolate from that to conclude that everyone ELSE exerts as little effort- and as little THINKING-
when determining if a story is true.
Why do they make someone else out to be foolish, but never wonder if it's THEM that's sloppy mentally?
(Vanity, laziness...)]
[Considering what some people are gullible enough to accept without UNDERSTANDING,
I'd say there ARE still gullible people nowadays.]
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Lifted Up
Good suggestion, WW. being emotional does not prove or disprove sexual abuse, among other things. Of course I assume that cop is dealing with the emotional person in question, and not someone talking about someone else being emotional.
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year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
if so if most be possible that the Way Ministry will sale everything and give you all the money they have from the sale and on hand
Rosie is going to even give you her life saving too
sure this is all possible
so take believing action and get ready to put the money in your bank watch the mail because it is coming
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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oldiesman
That statement doesn't make sense. To the best of my knowledge Way believers don't go around accusing born again believers of being children of the devil.
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Ham
Ummm.. actually, most of us here are lower than the devils on der vey's hierarchy..
honestly.. "they" would rather visit a seance than come to "twig" with us..
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