I am so sorry to hear of your childhood friend's death. Years ago, but the pain recurs, like a fresh wound appearing where we thought there was only a faint scar. I hope you know God's love is great for both of you.
I remember Les G very well, and his wife J. They had the cute little boy and then another baby, I believe.
As I recall, while on staff at HQ, he contracted some kind of an infection that ran rampant and eventually killed him. Too early for MRSA, but who knows? With the tender loving care TWI offered to those in medical need, it wouldn't have been unusual for someone to die from an infected hangnail. This was many years ago, but I remember him as a very nice man. I think he and his wife took over the positions at Ohio Limb once held by the infamous T** Jen***&&n and wife. I recall they left after our first year to go to HQ and were quite excited. I remember taking over a pickup truck load of organic fertilizer to their flower beds once. And they gave Mr. Garden and me a mahogony dining room table & chairs and sideboard (?) with the condition it be passed on to other "believers" when we were through with it. It stayed in Athens when Mr. Garden graduated.
I am very thankful that I was initially in TWI under the auspices of a darn fine surgeon who strongly believed in God's healing power AND timely medical attention. It's extremely unfortunate he didn't have the influence over the folks at HQ he should have - oh gee I forgot! The powers that be get the medical attention, everyone else gets to "believe."
I don't think the "rewards" God hands out to those folks are gonna be quite what they expected.
I don't really know what to say but I feel I should say something.
Thank God for liz and her husband and for what God has been doing for them. I also hope that everyone will see God's healing hand where they need to see it. I thnk the best I can say is I will keep everyone in my prayers and let God bless people.
Their little boy was about the age my grandson is now. I remember him helping me clean "yeafs" from the flower beds in the fall.
I was just shocked when I asked about them, probably at ROA or some shindig at HQ, and was told quite offhandedly that he had died. Being the person I am, I demanded to know what the he11 happened and was told of the infection. It hadn't happened all that long ago (maybe six months) and the person who told me was rather off-hand about it. I've seen that before, though. A friend of Mr. Garden's from our Athens days went through the WC with a young woman whom he later married. This girl was in a horrible auto accident while in residence, and spent several months in the hospital in Marion, Ohio. They later married, though she never really recovered 100%. Fast forward a few years to some anniversary or other, and we see this fellow and ask after his wife. "Oh, she died." he replies quite airily, with no emotion, as if he were talking about a cat or dog, well less than that really. He was engaged to be married again. I never felt the same about him after that. In fact, he got more and more "hard corps" and the last time we saw him, he didn't even speak (we'd been DFAC'd and I was diabetic by then, so I guess word had gotten around).
WAW,
Let us know how Liz & husband are doing. I am so thankful you found them!
Hey, DontWorryBeHappy, I hope your comments about the Credit Union were more directed at EB and not the Credit Union.
- I was there and helped get that Credit Union started! Helped with the start-up paperwork and everything. It was the brainchild of a man named John Blake, from North Carolina. He had a finance background and had been on staff for a number of years. When I worked in Finance my apprentice year, 1977-78, he was working on it then.
He was very concerned how Way Corps had nothing to start with when they graduated and how quickly they could get into debt trying to get on their feet. He'd been wanting to do the Credit Union for a long time, trying to give believers an option for credit purchases with lower interest and better relationship than with banks. He also wanted to have finance classes, teaching people how to manage their money.
There was a lot of difficulty in exapnding the definition of who could join, based on the national credit union organization definition of who constituted a group and could be eligible to join. I don't remember anymore if EB was the VP who finally approved that or if he just happened to be there when John finally had all the pieces in place and had the thing ready to go.
I made good use of that Credit Union as did many others. It got me a small unsecured loan to get out of HQ in '83 and get back on the field. It was into the late '80's that it came under scrutiny and leadership began discouraging its use, moving toward the No-debt-at-all logic and evenutally was disbanded.
I was very appreciative of its benefits as a young and broke Corps Grad, trying to get my financial act together and John's intentions were strictly motivated by his concerns and cares for the household. He had great practical financial advice and was a good friend.
In some ways this thread is more horrific than those relating sexual abuse. In those, we became aware of the predatory behavior of certain "leaders." It was obvious and premeditated. Conscious behavior.
In this thread, we learn of the casual cruelty towards and disregard for believers at all levels, outside of sexual abuse. Complete lack of compassion or normal "human" responses.
Jesus wept when somebody died: he knew the hurt in people's hearts. But TWI airily dismisses such with "Oh, she died" and next subject please? As for people with illnesses, tumors, where is the praying for the healing? Did EB ever pray for Liz's head, eyesight, or was that too demeaning a task? Where was his "believing"?
This wicked behavior was often encouraged and endured in Corps Nights where somebody has had a terrible thing happen to them they got publicly reamed, and the WC was told in the CN "teaching" that we weren't to feel sorry for them or contact them to offer condolences (on pain of being DFAC'd). The offending (ha ha) persons were possessos, etc, etc. Oh yeah right.
Bowels of mercies? Full of sh1t, more like.
Romans 1 (NIV)
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Hey, Twinky - thanks for reminding me. This is about Liz. I'm thrilled that WrdsnWrks found her. That is so awesome!
I was about to offer my subscription to a search service but looks like its not necessary.
WrdsnWrks - I wanted to ask if Liz C. started in the 11th Corps? She sounds like someone who I was in the corps with when the 9th and 11th were together.
WrdsnWrks - I wanted to ask if Liz C. started in the 11th Corps? She sounds like someone who I was in the corps with when the 9th and 11th were together.
The incredible abuse, debasement and destructive behavior of PEOPLE in TWI never ceases to amaze me. :(
So much for doing good unto all men, especially those who are of the household of faith, eh? I wonder, I really wonder if those abusers ever lay awake at night concerned about how they are going to justify their behavior at the Bema. Do they just not care or do they really not believe a word of what they teach?
If I read the Bible correctly, only rewards are handed out at the Bema ... but all the unprofitable, unkind, evil things any Christian did are all burned up ... what's left is the good and for that, we get rewarded.
On the other hand, people also reap what they sow in the here and now ... eventually. All that unkindness and evil comes back around to those folks that dished it out. They don't have to wait until Christ comes back to reap what they sow.
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Suda
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Watered Garden
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I am so sorry to hear of your childhood friend's death. Years ago, but the pain recurs, like a fresh wound appearing where we thought there was only a faint scar. I hope you know God's love is great for both of you.
I remember Les G very well, and his wife J. They had the cute little boy and then another baby, I believe.
As I recall, while on staff at HQ, he contracted some kind of an infection that ran rampant and eventually killed him. Too early for MRSA, but who knows? With the tender loving care TWI offered to those in medical need, it wouldn't have been unusual for someone to die from an infected hangnail. This was many years ago, but I remember him as a very nice man. I think he and his wife took over the positions at Ohio Limb once held by the infamous T** Jen***&&n and wife. I recall they left after our first year to go to HQ and were quite excited. I remember taking over a pickup truck load of organic fertilizer to their flower beds once. And they gave Mr. Garden and me a mahogony dining room table & chairs and sideboard (?) with the condition it be passed on to other "believers" when we were through with it. It stayed in Athens when Mr. Garden graduated.
I am very thankful that I was initially in TWI under the auspices of a darn fine surgeon who strongly believed in God's healing power AND timely medical attention. It's extremely unfortunate he didn't have the influence over the folks at HQ he should have - oh gee I forgot! The powers that be get the medical attention, everyone else gets to "believe."
I don't think the "rewards" God hands out to those folks are gonna be quite what they expected.
WG
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Out There
I don't really know what to say but I feel I should say something.
Thank God for liz and her husband and for what God has been doing for them. I also hope that everyone will see God's healing hand where they need to see it. I thnk the best I can say is I will keep everyone in my prayers and let God bless people.
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nyunknown
I am so sorry to hear about your friend! My outrage I can't repeat what I really think here. LCM belongs in jail what what he had done.
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Suda
Or six feet under the jail with the key thrown away.
Suda
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waysider
Thanks for the info, WG
Do you remember when Les sang with "Foreordained" and wife J. played piano?
Les had a beautiful tenor voice.
The two of them combined had a boatload of musical talent.
They were both very caring and generous people, always ready to give of themselves to help someone in need.
The ministry was built on the generosity and good will of people like them.
Maybe I should say it was built at the "expense" of people like them.
I was saddened to hear of his death
The only answers I could get were the usual "lack of believing" drivel.
WordsandWorks--- So glad to her about your locating Liz.
Please let us know the outcome of your reconnection.
Thanks, everybody, for your caring responses.
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Watered Garden
Waysider,
Oh, yes, I do remember the music!
Their little boy was about the age my grandson is now. I remember him helping me clean "yeafs" from the flower beds in the fall.
I was just shocked when I asked about them, probably at ROA or some shindig at HQ, and was told quite offhandedly that he had died. Being the person I am, I demanded to know what the he11 happened and was told of the infection. It hadn't happened all that long ago (maybe six months) and the person who told me was rather off-hand about it. I've seen that before, though. A friend of Mr. Garden's from our Athens days went through the WC with a young woman whom he later married. This girl was in a horrible auto accident while in residence, and spent several months in the hospital in Marion, Ohio. They later married, though she never really recovered 100%. Fast forward a few years to some anniversary or other, and we see this fellow and ask after his wife. "Oh, she died." he replies quite airily, with no emotion, as if he were talking about a cat or dog, well less than that really. He was engaged to be married again. I never felt the same about him after that. In fact, he got more and more "hard corps" and the last time we saw him, he didn't even speak (we'd been DFAC'd and I was diabetic by then, so I guess word had gotten around).
WAW,
Let us know how Liz & husband are doing. I am so thankful you found them!
WG
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LKH
Hey, DontWorryBeHappy, I hope your comments about the Credit Union were more directed at EB and not the Credit Union.
- I was there and helped get that Credit Union started! Helped with the start-up paperwork and everything. It was the brainchild of a man named John Blake, from North Carolina. He had a finance background and had been on staff for a number of years. When I worked in Finance my apprentice year, 1977-78, he was working on it then.
He was very concerned how Way Corps had nothing to start with when they graduated and how quickly they could get into debt trying to get on their feet. He'd been wanting to do the Credit Union for a long time, trying to give believers an option for credit purchases with lower interest and better relationship than with banks. He also wanted to have finance classes, teaching people how to manage their money.
There was a lot of difficulty in exapnding the definition of who could join, based on the national credit union organization definition of who constituted a group and could be eligible to join. I don't remember anymore if EB was the VP who finally approved that or if he just happened to be there when John finally had all the pieces in place and had the thing ready to go.
I made good use of that Credit Union as did many others. It got me a small unsecured loan to get out of HQ in '83 and get back on the field. It was into the late '80's that it came under scrutiny and leadership began discouraging its use, moving toward the No-debt-at-all logic and evenutally was disbanded.
I was very appreciative of its benefits as a young and broke Corps Grad, trying to get my financial act together and John's intentions were strictly motivated by his concerns and cares for the household. He had great practical financial advice and was a good friend.
Save my comments on EB for another day!
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Twinky
In some ways this thread is more horrific than those relating sexual abuse. In those, we became aware of the predatory behavior of certain "leaders." It was obvious and premeditated. Conscious behavior.
In this thread, we learn of the casual cruelty towards and disregard for believers at all levels, outside of sexual abuse. Complete lack of compassion or normal "human" responses.
Jesus wept when somebody died: he knew the hurt in people's hearts. But TWI airily dismisses such with "Oh, she died" and next subject please? As for people with illnesses, tumors, where is the praying for the healing? Did EB ever pray for Liz's head, eyesight, or was that too demeaning a task? Where was his "believing"?
This wicked behavior was often encouraged and endured in Corps Nights where somebody has had a terrible thing happen to them they got publicly reamed, and the WC was told in the CN "teaching" that we weren't to feel sorry for them or contact them to offer condolences (on pain of being DFAC'd). The offending (ha ha) persons were possessos, etc, etc. Oh yeah right.
Bowels of mercies? Full of sh1t, more like.
Romans 1 (NIV)
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
I need a long walk in the fresh air.
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LKH
Hey, Twinky - thanks for reminding me. This is about Liz. I'm thrilled that WrdsnWrks found her. That is so awesome!
I was about to offer my subscription to a search service but looks like its not necessary.
WrdsnWrks - I wanted to ask if Liz C. started in the 11th Corps? She sounds like someone who I was in the corps with when the 9th and 11th were together.
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wrdsandwrks
I'll PM you.
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Belle
((((W and W)))))
(((((Waysider)))))
(((((excathedra)))))
The incredible abuse, debasement and destructive behavior of PEOPLE in TWI never ceases to amaze me. :(
So much for doing good unto all men, especially those who are of the household of faith, eh? I wonder, I really wonder if those abusers ever lay awake at night concerned about how they are going to justify their behavior at the Bema. Do they just not care or do they really not believe a word of what they teach?
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DogLover
If I read the Bible correctly, only rewards are handed out at the Bema ... but all the unprofitable, unkind, evil things any Christian did are all burned up ... what's left is the good and for that, we get rewarded.
On the other hand, people also reap what they sow in the here and now ... eventually. All that unkindness and evil comes back around to those folks that dished it out. They don't have to wait until Christ comes back to reap what they sow.
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Dot Matrix
W&W
So? How are things? How was your visit? (on the tele)
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