That would appear to be the case, but don't forget, a splinter is a fragment that has separated from the whole at its weakest point.
That is what I always thought until all this TREE talk.... Then, I thought hey, are they talking splinter as in wood -- ouch I got a splinter in my foot OR the fragment meaning....
The early Rock of Ages were pretty loose, relaxed, with varied people coming together for fellowship and teaching. Over the years people became more and more alike, way-brain. Now compare a SNS at New Knox' auditorium. Everyone seems to dress, look, talk, act alike. (Even down to the funny choir outfits with the multicolored scarves.) Like a convention of business suit tailors. This is one effect of the way tree- everybody knuckles under the leadership and becomes alike.
TWI did not make itself grow. VPW latched onto a genuine movement of God, the "Jesus Movement" of the late 1960s and 1970s. Young people were flocking to the Lord as the "counterculture" movement was driving other people into immorality, alternative religion and anarchy. The Jesus People were a spiritual revival and led to renewal of worship, which is always a facet of spiritual revival. (Worship renewal was led my Maranatha Music/Calvary chapel and other contemporary worship music using guitar/ keyboard/ bass/ drums instead of organ/ piano.) VPW literally stole people from the Jesus movement (first in San Fran). The way tree and VPW replaced the Jesus movement (which was genuinely spiritual and not managable) and tried to impose VPW's likeness on people in place of Christ's likeness. VPW squeezed out spiritual life. He wasn't the onyl one- other cults/ cult leaders like Berg and "the Children of God" perverted the Jesus movement too.
"From Vesper Chimes to the way Int- the founder, history and activities of the way Ministry" is a 80 pp monograph (short paperback) available for $3 plus $2 shipping from 7070 Palm, Highland CA 92346. Or for $12 we can send 4 monographs plus all the articles re TWI from the www.abouttheway.org site "Vesper" is early history of TWI thru the inauguration of LCM. It's stuffed with footnotes and documentation.
The Way Tree was established by VP Wierwille in about 1971 to give him authoritarian control and centralized power over everyone in TWI. Early leaders such as Dave Anderson, Steve Heefner and Peter Wade left because of this new authoritarian structure with Wierwille (and his yes-men, his brother and Ermal Owens as trustees) at the top.
Heefner left in 1972 because of "tight controls, centralization and money disputes" with "one authority and no avenue of recourse" (Ft Wayne Jorunal-Gazette Mar 14, 1979)
Anderson left in 1973, aserting that Wierwille began to use the Way Tree to contriol everyone in TWI, saying
"By the time I left The Way, there was no longer any room for challenge. There was one leader with complete and absolute control. The Man of God whose revelation was unquestionable, could turn liberty into license without the possibility for correction from anyone on earth. In 1965 I heard 'the greatest of these is love,' in 1973 I heard 'the love of God does not work- we're going to put some teeth in this ministry'" (Anderson, letter to the editor of The Evening Leader, St Mary's Ohio, Jan 17, 1979)
Peter Wade added, "since 1971 when VP Wierwille decided to put 'some teeth into the ministry' and succeeded in draining the life out of it, TWI now deserves its chapters in recent books such as 'Youth, Brainwashing and the Cults'... five top leaders departed in one year'" (The Evening Leader, 1979)
This was part of the reason for the complete failure of the First Way Corps (the 2nd Corps was renamed the 1st to cover its failure)
Since we have no info on the group called "the Zero Corps" (to cover how the 2nd Corps was
renamed the First to hide what happened), I'd appreciate it if you shared what you have
on them. That question's come up before.
Before 1971 there was a "Board of Directors" (not trustees) which actually had some influence over the direction of TWI. But that was terminated by Wierwille when he put himself at the top of The Way Tree. It never was a tree, with roots at the bottom, it was a pyramid, with himself at the very heavy top, burdening all under him. A very self-serving structure. He used TWI to serve all his desires, for ego gratification, money, women, travel, hunting, keeping control of his family farm, (it would probably have been lost or sold had TWI not taken it over), etc.
John
According to my Way Tree syllabus, each "twig" is to be self-supporting, self-propagating and self-governing.
That doesn't sound like a very accurate description of the tree in my backyard.
HMMMMM!-----Come to think of it, it doesn't sound like a very accurate description of the Way Tree either.
True.
Can't be "self-supporting" since all the money goes from there to hq and vanishes.
Was occasionally self-propagating, but mechanical efforts were pushed from above,
with all sorts of events.
Was never self-governing, from the early 70s on- vpw was in charge, period,
and his rule was extended thru the Limb leaders to the Branch leaders.
I think wordwolf and belle have hit on the 2 major "ideological" tipping points regarding why vic really pushed the consolidation and eventual "denominationalization" of twi doctrines.
From a chronological perspective, i think the tipping point came in the spring of 1972, when vic pranced out john townsend as the "frontman" for the teaching and establishment , the "formalization" of the way tree.
Prior to that time, there were only "fellowships", not twigs, we weren't' "joining twi"-there WAS no twi, it was "the way, inc."....back then,"the way ministry".
the brc had the word "ecumenical" stamped on its dedicatory placque, hung at the main entrance, we were "getting into the word", becoming "born-again christians".
"Getting into the ministry"- back in 1970 (when i "got in") consisted of, "headquarters" in new knoxville ("the farm"),
the way west, the way east, the way of north carolina (the ecu crowd, et al), the way of kansas (primarily fugit in wichita, followed shortly by townsend), the way of indiana, the way of ohio, and the way of australia.
After the "summer school" sessions of 1969 and 1970, at hq, things really began mushrooming all over the states.
In the way east, we went from nothing in early 1970 to thousands of "grads" all over the northeast.
Hundreds of classes, hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tithes and offerings, bookstore sales, class registration "donations"....etc., etc.,.....
the only "formal doctrines" were the foundational, intermediate and advanced classes (with accompanying syllabi), "the collaterals" (a collection of about 62 pamphlets, including "pamphlet" versions of christians should be prosperous and adan) and whatever notes people took at summer school and/or family camps!!!
the structure was incredibly "loose" compared to what many came to know in the years following the spring of '72!!!
thousands of details are flying through my mind right now, but, suffice it to say, the incredible increase in cashflow and "membership" provided a major windfall for vic and the boys in nk!!!
in 1972, vic "brought it all home" to the farm.
way east and way west leaders were axed with the various "rumors" of misuse of the money, "ego problems" and not "listeneing to the man of god" at headquarters.
almost over night, "blue forms" appeared, all money was deposited directly into newly established "limb" bank accounts., fellowships became twigs, branches, areas and limbs with "leadership" ordained and appointed by headquarters and then "down the tree".
going wow and corps was now the only "right" way of moving the word and growing "spiritually".
vic consolidated financial and doctrinal control over "his ministry" centralizing and dictating all in and from new knoxville!!!.
he was our "father in the word" now, not merely "the teacher" any more..
suddenly there were new seminars, jcing became the "big deal" in 1973...and the money just kept pouring in!!
if you did'nt line up with hq, you were "out of fellowship"-usually "possessed", "tripped out".
the pfal series was dogmatized, the way tree institutionalized and the "way ministry" was denominationalized into "the way international"!!!
so, to gain and maintain control over the leadership and the money, vic went about full force giving twi it's unique identity, tatooing his way over "the way", his teachings over "the word" and his lifestyle upon the "followers of the way".
the doctrine became "written in stone" and its purest form was available only from "the farm",through "the teacher", our newly crowned "father in the word"-bringing new light to our generation by formalizing all the stuff he plagerized, stole and "received from god" into HIS ministry....and personal "cash cow"!!!
hence "the scarcity" of the "rightly-divided word, as it has'nt been taught since the first century" became an ever more necessary "club" in the hands of the apostle vic used to bludgeon the identity of his ministry into the hungry minds of his faithful "grads".
the spurious doctrines hinted at in the pfal series now became books, seminars, research projects, films, public ex's, rock of ages, etc., etc.,....ad infinitum!
so....the "WHEN"......as far as "putting some teeth into the ministry".......imo........truly was in the spring of 1972 with the imposition of the way tree structure upon those who were formerly simply "followers of the way".............what a toxic spring that turned out to be!!!!..........................peace.
Sorry, I had to structure this. I left your words the same, except for punctuation, and I think I dropped
Hi Oakspeare!.......and hi to all who have posted on this thread.
i copied the above post from another thread to save some time.
the "revelation" of the way tree was given to vic- according to him- in order to establish the administrative structure of twi, .as i stated above.
no one in the "early" daze of the way east, where i got "involved" with twi in late 1970, really ever heard much about it.
steve and sandi heefner were our "leaders". he was the only "ordained" clergyman in the way east when he came to us,
ordained in november, 1970 if i remember correctly, along with john lynn and boob moyihan by vic at new knoxville at a special sns.
btw, steve was (imo) a really great guy!
to this day i regret not being able to offer more tangible support to him and sandi when they were fired by vic during the ac in rye, ny in april of 1972.
this was not too long after jim and judy doop were fired publicly from the way west during "the way presents" fiasco in ca.
steve was a genuine minister and friend-and he was NOT wrong!
as another interesting side note, it was chris geer who provided the "inside" covert support for vic in all the shenanigans they pulled to fire steve during that ac.
his reward was to be made the lc in massachusetts in june of '72!!
as i stated in the previous post, it was john townsend who was "pranced out" to teach the way tree seminar on video, not fugit.
fugit was the "evangelist" who taught the first video seminar on witnessing and undershepherding, which was later replaced by a seminar of the same name, filmed during "living victoriously" in june, 1982 including vince finnegan and ralph dubofsky as the teachers.
the real push for formalizing and establishing the way tree structure in twi began in the spring of 1972,as i stated above, in order to "lock in" vic's absolute control over the leadership and money....especially the money.
prior to the spring of '72, all the 'limbs"-i.e. the way west, the way east, etc.,-
were independent "corporations".
each "limb" decided on its own how much money wouyld be "abundantly shared" with "the farm" in nk.
as did each area or branch decide how much it would send to the limb.
.all expenses (like rent, salaries, cars, gas, "petty cash", refreshments for meetings, etc., etc.,)were handled by and at the local level by the local leaders, all decisions regarding allocation of the money were made at the local levels, until......
the ominous spring of '72...
this was when hq in nk became the vatican of twi-the only rule for faith and practice, no more questions!!!!
the info provided by johnj in his post on this thread augments the facts surrounding the "circling of the wagons" by vic and da boyz in '72.
btw...
.the "original" bot was established in 1957, when vic and harry incorporated the way after getting the ancestral family farm to be "the ministry's" after vic "left" the church in van wert.
the board of directors never really wielded much real power over the corporation other than "nominally"-
from '57-69-basically "rubber stamping" what vic, harry and ermal decided with occasional disputes over money..............
but the bylaws of the corporation from 1957 clearly gave final say to the original 3 bot members.
this was totally "etched in stone" by early '71 if not earlier.
so, when the money became "serious" by 1972, vic made sure he and harry were totally in control of ALL OF IT!
hence the teaching and institutionalization of the way tree provided them the exclusive authority to control doctrine, practice and (most importantly) ALL THE MONEY that twi had..............
The early Rock of Ages were pretty loose, relaxed, with varied people coming together for fellowship and teaching. Over the years people became more and more alike, way-brain. Now compare a SNS at New Knox' auditorium. Everyone seems to dress, look, talk, act alike. (Even down to the funny choir outfits with the multicolored scarves.) Like a convention of business suit tailors. This is one effect of the way tree- everybody knuckles under the leadership and becomes alike.
Some people would claim vpw didn't intend this result.
They would put forth that all the changes that happened together JUST HAPPENED
to be vpw-serving, and that was an unintended coincidence.
Then again, some people think 'professional wrestling' is real.
TWI did not make itself grow. VPW latched onto a genuine movement of God, the "Jesus Movement" of the late 1960s and 1970s. Young people were flocking to the Lord as the "counterculture" movement was driving other people into immorality, alternative religion and anarchy. The Jesus People were a spiritual revival and led to renewal of worship, which is always a facet of spiritual revival. (Worship renewal was led my Maranatha Music/Calvary chapel and other contemporary worship music using guitar/ keyboard/ bass/ drums instead of organ/ piano.) VPW literally stole people from the Jesus movement (first in San Fran). The way tree and VPW replaced the Jesus movement (which was genuinely spiritual and not managable) and tried to impose VPW's likeness on people in place of Christ's likeness. VPW squeezed out spiritual life. He wasn't the onyl one- other cults/ cult leaders like Berg and "the Children of God" perverted the Jesus movement too.
From his start as a minister to 1953, vpw seemed interested in working with youth,
but didn't seem to be exceptional in what he wanted to accomplish,
not being noteworthy one way or another at the time.
In 1953, he stole Leonard's class, and began to teach it as HIS class,
and stole Stiles' book, and began to sell it as HIS book.
Now he had a product- the results of quality Christians.
(he added to them with Bullinger, Kenyon, and Lamsa.)
However, for the next DECADE, numbers did not swell, which probably is why
vpw didn't "give up his day job" and continued to draw a paycheck from his
denomination.
It was only his recruitment of the Jesus People that led directly to large numbers
of people hearing about his group, visiting, and liking it.
(Actually, they liked H33fn3r's group and D00p's group, and vpw was just
part of the package.)
vpw diverted Christians from what they were then doing, and put them to work
as his recruitment arms.
(Someone's suggested that vpw was the devil's way of making the Jesus People
less effective.)
Once they brought in the numbers, vpw kicked out H33fn3r and D00p and
I agree the change to structure happened in '71. I was a "groovy Christian of Rye" and took PFAL in 1970. I loved going to Rye followships and over to the Heefners occassionally. All the fellowships at that time were in Rye at the Bishops. I also remember going to one at the Heanys. People would pickup up us little high school kids and give us rides to fellowship.
I remember, in '71 - in winter, or early spring? I'm not sure now, that I was told, along with others, that I couldn't fellowship in Rye anymore, I had to go to a certain person's twig in Larchmont. I wasn't fond of him, and the twig just wasn't the same as the more spontaneous fellowship with lots of my high school peers. I drifted away. Later, when we moved to Ohio, the WOWs found me and I got back in - I think because I was just happy to see a familiar face after being wrenched from my lifetime home going into my senior year of high school and now stuck in Ohio - one of the WOWs was from Rye.
I think the Waytree dampened a lot of enthusiasm. Something moving along via God, was now structured.
The way tree became a masterful business structure although to get a true grasp of how it actually worked, turn the organizational chart upside down and you will see that instead of nourishing the leaves it sucked them dry.
vpw talked about zero corps in Whiteside's book "The Way Living in Love" (she should have been marked and avoided before she titled the book- the title would be different then!). It was 9 people in 1969.
Of course, vpw blames the young people and takes no part of the responsibility for its failure on himself. He says they "never got it together among themselves. They didn't have the cimmitment, that discipline. They just kept fighting among themselves." (p235-236)
Early on the PFAL class was taught by people other than VPW. Putting it on film and controling it through approved twigs (rather than selling it) gave vpw a means of control and was a tool to centralize TWI also.
I may be in error but I think Johnny T. taught the class first and Earl B. did a remake of it.
In Johnny's class, it was like an introduction to multi-level marketing. Example: You get a 7 people in your fellowship and run a class. When that Twig splits a number of times, you become a branch leader, and so on.
It motivated me to become a witnessing machine. I witnessed, and signed people up for classes with passion. In fact, I remember about 6 months into my involvement, I was visiting a Twig and the Twig leader turned to the rest of the Twig and said, "If you want to get someone signed up for the class, get Rxck (me) in front of 'em. He can sign up anyone."
My heart swelled up with joy to think I had that kind of reputation. I was brought down to reality when I witnessed to some trinitarians later that evening. I was totally unprepared.
I dont remember any teachings about the way tree or the structure, in the 90's Belle. Can you elaborate?
LAE, in my area (Orlando), they taught me about the terminology and the "biblical basis" of the structure of TWI when I first got involved in 1993. There were quite a few teachings at twig, branch meetings and even a limb meeting led by John Shroyer which my parents attended.
Basically, as long as the tree terminology was being used, it was being taught. We shared the biblical basis of it with people we were witnessing to and new people until craig shook things up and forbid us to use the word twig anymore. Funny, "branch" and "limb" were okay, though. :blink:
Basically, as long as the tree terminology was being used, it was being taught. We shared the biblical basis of it with people we were witnessing to and new people until craig shook things up and forbid us to use the word twig anymore. Funny, "branch" and "limb" were okay, though. :blink:
Prior to the release of martindale's book, R&E, he shared on a corps meeting that he did NOT include any "way tree" terminology in his book......since twig, branch, etc were not specifically in the Scriptures. The concept was there [in the scriptures], but not the terminology.
Yes, "twig" was radically phased out around 1993-94....whereas, "branch" was allowed to stay because it was corporately acceptable and widely used by companies. And, the use of "limb" was rarely addressed.......but it was being replaced by "state" on a number of occasions.
Personally, I think the term "root" is used appropriately.......because the tops "leaders" at hq have had their head IN THE DIRT for a long, long time.
Early on the PFAL class was taught by people other than VPW. Putting it on film and controling it through approved twigs (rather than selling it) gave vpw a means of control and was a tool to centralize TWI also.
The only people I ever saw that Wierwille admitted taught PFAL other than him was Mal George and Donnie Fugit.
In Johnny's class, it was like an introduction to multi-level marketing. Example: You get a 7 people in your fellowship and run a class. When that Twig splits a number of times, you become a branch leader, and so on.
Right...except when they need something for newly graduated Way Corps folks to do and they demote you from being branch or twig leader.
I like to augment my memory on these matters of ministry history with the hard record, the tape and print record.
I have a tape, a Corps tape, from 1972 where Dr describes the Way Tree revelation. He calls it that specifically, a revelation. It’s one of the 90 “Thus saith the Lord” statements I’ve found of his that so many people here insisted he never made.
On this tape he says that God told him to apply a plan that, when you look at it, is generally a lot like the one Moses adopted from Jethro's suggestion. This Jethro plan was originally designed for an ancient people, where precious few had spirit upon them. My impression is that Dr had to have God tell him it had to go that way, and that otherwise Dr would NOT have gone that way.
Dr’s original plan with PFAL was to have others teach it after hearing it from him.
***
Oakspear, you wrote: “Early on the PFAL class was taught by people other than VPW. Putting it on film and controling it through approved twigs (rather than selling it) gave vpw a means of control and was a tool to centralize TWI also.”
I disagree. I think you have it backwards. Dr’s original desire was to NOT have it centrally controlled. He was actively spreading out the responsibility of teaching the class in the pre-film class days AS A DEPARTURE FROM having central control all to himself.
Why was it changed back to central control? The tape provided me with a clue, and so did the lady I worked with at HQ who was very active in the early 50’s. She told me that IT WAS THE PEOPLE who wanted Dr to teach it all the time. Dr wanted to go with a plan like the Israel had with prophets spiritually rising up whenever there was a need for governance, BUT THE PEOPLE wanted a king. (I think this is also why Craig was made king.)
From what she said it was a lot like the difference between an audio cassette class and a full video class. We people on the field had a strong preference for the video classes and did all we could to wrangle them. Ditto for the early live PFAL classes. There was a lot of maneuvering involved in each class to get Dr to teach it himself.
The people wanted the head honcho to visit them and teach, and if one of his assistants showed up they were disappointed. They were immature spiritually, and so were the assistant teachers Dr had at his disposal. It was the people’s immaturity that demanded a stronger teacher.
***
Then johnj wrote: “The only people I ever saw that Wierwille admitted taught PFAL other than him was Mal George and Donnie Fugit.”
Well, if my flimsy memory is right, Dave Anderson was also included, possibly Walter, although I think he was too young then, and I think there was a woman who did it too. Donnie Fugit MAY have taught a live class, but I tend to think not. He came in a little late in the process and he was very young then too.
But, johnj, that’s an odd way to put it: “admitted”?
Dr didn’t “admit” to it; it was common knowledge. To use the word “admit” is to imply wrong-doing where there was none. Dr wanted to see his students rise to be “...able to teach others also” as the scripture goes. Early on he implemented the plan, but the people were not yet ready for it.
To use the word "admitted" looks like an to attempt to re-write history.
This is why I constantly talk of mastering PFAL: because we didn’t and we STILL don’t know God and His Word enough to rise up above all this crap. We need to get sharper about what we were taught and about the actual historical context in which it happened... not the hysterical and “bad experience” distorted memories. In other words, the immaturity of the people was CONSTANTLY what slowed things down and eventually even bogged them down altogether, both then and now.
The early plan Dr had was to have other ministers rise up and teach the class. It didn’t work, so he tried an new one: the Zero-ith Corps. That didn’t work, so he kept the film class in play and then started the First Corps with the goal of producing leaders who could run the kind of twigs that were self-sustaining and self-propagating and self-other-things... in other words, a NON-CENTRALLY controlled ministry.
On this tape Dr fields a few questions from the Corps in the room. One asked about the centralized abundant sharing. Dr pointed (just like I did) to the immaturity of the people, and that as a temporary measure, the abs would all go to HQ. Shortly after that he started a ten year campaign to gradually wean people off the KJV and onto the far better written materials of the collaterals. As more was put into print the urging to master the collaterals increased. HOWEVER we all refused to do this the more time we had into the Word. The more facts we got under our belts, the less we went to the collaterals, and our immaturity lingered. So did the centralized money flow.
I saw this financial immaturity first hand in 1972. My branch leader bought a great big flashy black Cadillac boat with the Branch abs and it severely embarrassed a lot of people. It was a problem. From what I heard things like that were happening all over. The centralized control was implemented to hold things together until we would finally get meek and return to the collaterals to get the message correct.
No, I'm not saying "that precious few people in TWI had Spirit, thus the Way Tree was necessary."
I'm saying that EVEN THOUGH we had spirit we were a lot like them.
Remember, the gift token of pneuma hagion does NOT affect the mind.
It was a miracle of God that we could operate ANY of the manifestations while still having a natural man mind that was enemies with God and that thought spiritual things were foolishness.
Though we had token spirit, the HOPE of glory, we were functionally identical to spiritless Israel.
***
And if you want to use the word "typical" I'd say it's typical to blame VPW here.
Did good???? Not when he was drugging and raping our sisters...not when he was visciously slandering and destroying innocent youngsters lives when they refused his sexual ministering...not when his teachings caused division of family, separation from friends, death due to adherence to his stupid dogma.
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That is what I always thought until all this TREE talk....
Then, I thought hey, are they talking splinter as in wood -- ouch I got a splinter in my foot OR the fragment meaning....
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johnj
The early Rock of Ages were pretty loose, relaxed, with varied people coming together for fellowship and teaching. Over the years people became more and more alike, way-brain. Now compare a SNS at New Knox' auditorium. Everyone seems to dress, look, talk, act alike. (Even down to the funny choir outfits with the multicolored scarves.) Like a convention of business suit tailors. This is one effect of the way tree- everybody knuckles under the leadership and becomes alike.
TWI did not make itself grow. VPW latched onto a genuine movement of God, the "Jesus Movement" of the late 1960s and 1970s. Young people were flocking to the Lord as the "counterculture" movement was driving other people into immorality, alternative religion and anarchy. The Jesus People were a spiritual revival and led to renewal of worship, which is always a facet of spiritual revival. (Worship renewal was led my Maranatha Music/Calvary chapel and other contemporary worship music using guitar/ keyboard/ bass/ drums instead of organ/ piano.) VPW literally stole people from the Jesus movement (first in San Fran). The way tree and VPW replaced the Jesus movement (which was genuinely spiritual and not managable) and tried to impose VPW's likeness on people in place of Christ's likeness. VPW squeezed out spiritual life. He wasn't the onyl one- other cults/ cult leaders like Berg and "the Children of God" perverted the Jesus movement too.
"From Vesper Chimes to the way Int- the founder, history and activities of the way Ministry" is a 80 pp monograph (short paperback) available for $3 plus $2 shipping from 7070 Palm, Highland CA 92346. Or for $12 we can send 4 monographs plus all the articles re TWI from the www.abouttheway.org site "Vesper" is early history of TWI thru the inauguration of LCM. It's stuffed with footnotes and documentation.
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WordWolf
Since we have no info on the group called "the Zero Corps" (to cover how the 2nd Corps was
renamed the First to hide what happened), I'd appreciate it if you shared what you have
on them. That question's come up before.
True.
Can't be "self-supporting" since all the money goes from there to hq and vanishes.
Was occasionally self-propagating, but mechanical efforts were pushed from above,
with all sorts of events.
Was never self-governing, from the early 70s on- vpw was in charge, period,
and his rule was extended thru the Limb leaders to the Branch leaders.
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WordWolf
Sorry, I had to structure this. I left your words the same, except for punctuation, and I think I dropped
one (redundant) word.
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WordWolf
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WordWolf
Some people would claim vpw didn't intend this result.
They would put forth that all the changes that happened together JUST HAPPENED
to be vpw-serving, and that was an unintended coincidence.
Then again, some people think 'professional wrestling' is real.
From his start as a minister to 1953, vpw seemed interested in working with youth,
but didn't seem to be exceptional in what he wanted to accomplish,
not being noteworthy one way or another at the time.
In 1953, he stole Leonard's class, and began to teach it as HIS class,
and stole Stiles' book, and began to sell it as HIS book.
Now he had a product- the results of quality Christians.
(he added to them with Bullinger, Kenyon, and Lamsa.)
However, for the next DECADE, numbers did not swell, which probably is why
vpw didn't "give up his day job" and continued to draw a paycheck from his
denomination.
It was only his recruitment of the Jesus People that led directly to large numbers
of people hearing about his group, visiting, and liking it.
(Actually, they liked H33fn3r's group and D00p's group, and vpw was just
part of the package.)
vpw diverted Christians from what they were then doing, and put them to work
as his recruitment arms.
(Someone's suggested that vpw was the devil's way of making the Jesus People
less effective.)
Once they brought in the numbers, vpw kicked out H33fn3r and D00p and
consolidated all control and decision-making,
and especialy all money-
into his own hands.
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Sunesis
I agree the change to structure happened in '71. I was a "groovy Christian of Rye" and took PFAL in 1970. I loved going to Rye followships and over to the Heefners occassionally. All the fellowships at that time were in Rye at the Bishops. I also remember going to one at the Heanys. People would pickup up us little high school kids and give us rides to fellowship.
I remember, in '71 - in winter, or early spring? I'm not sure now, that I was told, along with others, that I couldn't fellowship in Rye anymore, I had to go to a certain person's twig in Larchmont. I wasn't fond of him, and the twig just wasn't the same as the more spontaneous fellowship with lots of my high school peers. I drifted away. Later, when we moved to Ohio, the WOWs found me and I got back in - I think because I was just happy to see a familiar face after being wrenched from my lifetime home going into my senior year of high school and now stuck in Ohio - one of the WOWs was from Rye.
I think the Waytree dampened a lot of enthusiasm. Something moving along via God, was now structured.
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Out There
The way tree became a masterful business structure although to get a true grasp of how it actually worked, turn the organizational chart upside down and you will see that instead of nourishing the leaves it sucked them dry.
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johnj
vpw talked about zero corps in Whiteside's book "The Way Living in Love" (she should have been marked and avoided before she titled the book- the title would be different then!). It was 9 people in 1969.
Of course, vpw blames the young people and takes no part of the responsibility for its failure on himself. He says they "never got it together among themselves. They didn't have the cimmitment, that discipline. They just kept fighting among themselves." (p235-236)
Early on the PFAL class was taught by people other than VPW. Putting it on film and controling it through approved twigs (rather than selling it) gave vpw a means of control and was a tool to centralize TWI also.
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YID
I may be in error but I think Johnny T. taught the class first and Earl B. did a remake of it.
In Johnny's class, it was like an introduction to multi-level marketing. Example: You get a 7 people in your fellowship and run a class. When that Twig splits a number of times, you become a branch leader, and so on.
It motivated me to become a witnessing machine. I witnessed, and signed people up for classes with passion. In fact, I remember about 6 months into my involvement, I was visiting a Twig and the Twig leader turned to the rest of the Twig and said, "If you want to get someone signed up for the class, get Rxck (me) in front of 'em. He can sign up anyone."
My heart swelled up with joy to think I had that kind of reputation. I was brought down to reality when I witnessed to some trinitarians later that evening. I was totally unprepared.
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WordWolf
twi has always been pretty good at inflating self-images,
and horrible at comforting those brought low.
Those with big egos were seen by vpw as assets so long as they produced,
but those brought low are liabilities-they take time and effort,
so they were often cut loose.
The way corps supposedly was training for Christian service,
or Christian leadership, depending on who you asked.
Why didn't it have significant time-expenditures on comforting the hurt?
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waysider
I found info on the "first" Corps(complete with photo and names) just by doing a google search a while back.
If I can find it, anybody can. LOL
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Belle
LAE, in my area (Orlando), they taught me about the terminology and the "biblical basis" of the structure of TWI when I first got involved in 1993. There were quite a few teachings at twig, branch meetings and even a limb meeting led by John Shroyer which my parents attended.
Basically, as long as the tree terminology was being used, it was being taught. We shared the biblical basis of it with people we were witnessing to and new people until craig shook things up and forbid us to use the word twig anymore. Funny, "branch" and "limb" were okay, though. :blink:
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likeaneagle
Oh, I understand now..gotcha..
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skyrider
Prior to the release of martindale's book, R&E, he shared on a corps meeting that he did NOT include any "way tree" terminology in his book......since twig, branch, etc were not specifically in the Scriptures. The concept was there [in the scriptures], but not the terminology.
Yes, "twig" was radically phased out around 1993-94....whereas, "branch" was allowed to stay because it was corporately acceptable and widely used by companies. And, the use of "limb" was rarely addressed.......but it was being replaced by "state" on a number of occasions.
Personally, I think the term "root" is used appropriately.......because the tops "leaders" at hq have had their head IN THE DIRT for a long, long time.
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Oakspear
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Mike
Howdy folks.
I like to augment my memory on these matters of ministry history with the hard record, the tape and print record.
I have a tape, a Corps tape, from 1972 where Dr describes the Way Tree revelation. He calls it that specifically, a revelation. It’s one of the 90 “Thus saith the Lord” statements I’ve found of his that so many people here insisted he never made.
On this tape he says that God told him to apply a plan that, when you look at it, is generally a lot like the one Moses adopted from Jethro's suggestion. This Jethro plan was originally designed for an ancient people, where precious few had spirit upon them. My impression is that Dr had to have God tell him it had to go that way, and that otherwise Dr would NOT have gone that way.
Dr’s original plan with PFAL was to have others teach it after hearing it from him.
***
Oakspear, you wrote: “Early on the PFAL class was taught by people other than VPW. Putting it on film and controling it through approved twigs (rather than selling it) gave vpw a means of control and was a tool to centralize TWI also.”
I disagree. I think you have it backwards. Dr’s original desire was to NOT have it centrally controlled. He was actively spreading out the responsibility of teaching the class in the pre-film class days AS A DEPARTURE FROM having central control all to himself.
Why was it changed back to central control? The tape provided me with a clue, and so did the lady I worked with at HQ who was very active in the early 50’s. She told me that IT WAS THE PEOPLE who wanted Dr to teach it all the time. Dr wanted to go with a plan like the Israel had with prophets spiritually rising up whenever there was a need for governance, BUT THE PEOPLE wanted a king. (I think this is also why Craig was made king.)
From what she said it was a lot like the difference between an audio cassette class and a full video class. We people on the field had a strong preference for the video classes and did all we could to wrangle them. Ditto for the early live PFAL classes. There was a lot of maneuvering involved in each class to get Dr to teach it himself.
The people wanted the head honcho to visit them and teach, and if one of his assistants showed up they were disappointed. They were immature spiritually, and so were the assistant teachers Dr had at his disposal. It was the people’s immaturity that demanded a stronger teacher.
***
Then johnj wrote: “The only people I ever saw that Wierwille admitted taught PFAL other than him was Mal George and Donnie Fugit.”
Well, if my flimsy memory is right, Dave Anderson was also included, possibly Walter, although I think he was too young then, and I think there was a woman who did it too. Donnie Fugit MAY have taught a live class, but I tend to think not. He came in a little late in the process and he was very young then too.
But, johnj, that’s an odd way to put it: “admitted”?
Dr didn’t “admit” to it; it was common knowledge. To use the word “admit” is to imply wrong-doing where there was none. Dr wanted to see his students rise to be “...able to teach others also” as the scripture goes. Early on he implemented the plan, but the people were not yet ready for it.
To use the word "admitted" looks like an to attempt to re-write history.
This is why I constantly talk of mastering PFAL: because we didn’t and we STILL don’t know God and His Word enough to rise up above all this crap. We need to get sharper about what we were taught and about the actual historical context in which it happened... not the hysterical and “bad experience” distorted memories. In other words, the immaturity of the people was CONSTANTLY what slowed things down and eventually even bogged them down altogether, both then and now.
The early plan Dr had was to have other ministers rise up and teach the class. It didn’t work, so he tried an new one: the Zero-ith Corps. That didn’t work, so he kept the film class in play and then started the First Corps with the goal of producing leaders who could run the kind of twigs that were self-sustaining and self-propagating and self-other-things... in other words, a NON-CENTRALLY controlled ministry.
On this tape Dr fields a few questions from the Corps in the room. One asked about the centralized abundant sharing. Dr pointed (just like I did) to the immaturity of the people, and that as a temporary measure, the abs would all go to HQ. Shortly after that he started a ten year campaign to gradually wean people off the KJV and onto the far better written materials of the collaterals. As more was put into print the urging to master the collaterals increased. HOWEVER we all refused to do this the more time we had into the Word. The more facts we got under our belts, the less we went to the collaterals, and our immaturity lingered. So did the centralized money flow.
I saw this financial immaturity first hand in 1972. My branch leader bought a great big flashy black Cadillac boat with the Branch abs and it severely embarrassed a lot of people. It was a problem. From what I heard things like that were happening all over. The centralized control was implemented to hold things together until we would finally get meek and return to the collaterals to get the message correct.
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Sunesis
So are you saying that precious few people in TWI had Spirit, thus the Way Tree was necessary?
Oh, this lady said, it was the "people's" fault, we wanted a King??
Typical VP - blame his people.
What bs.
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Mike
No, I'm not saying "that precious few people in TWI had Spirit, thus the Way Tree was necessary."
I'm saying that EVEN THOUGH we had spirit we were a lot like them.
Remember, the gift token of pneuma hagion does NOT affect the mind.
It was a miracle of God that we could operate ANY of the manifestations while still having a natural man mind that was enemies with God and that thought spiritual things were foolishness.
Though we had token spirit, the HOPE of glory, we were functionally identical to spiritless Israel.
***
And if you want to use the word "typical" I'd say it's typical to blame VPW here.
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Sunesis
Absolutely not true.
Christ sent the comforter - the Holy Spirit, who is still in the world today and in every one of us who is born again.
In Israel's time, the comforter did not do the same functions it does now.
We are nothing like Israel was.
To say that, is, by your logic, to negate the dispensations.
You are saying the OT and NT are the same - no difference.
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Mike
I'm saying there's no difference FUNCTIONALLY.
Natural man mind ruled in both cases.
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Sunesis
Nope, now you're making excuses.
Its the Word literally, and fits like a hand in a glove, or it isn't.
This does not fit.
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Mike
It fits.
Try reading my posts above again, minus the hate for Dr.
He did good for us.
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rascal
Did good???? Not when he was drugging and raping our sisters...not when he was visciously slandering and destroying innocent youngsters lives when they refused his sexual ministering...not when his teachings caused division of family, separation from friends, death due to adherence to his stupid dogma.
What`s NOT to hate about this guy eh?
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