Funny ... but as I've posted for awhile on Greasespot, and used the acronym of TWI for The Way International, I have wondered if "TWI" might have been the origin of the word "Twig". Never heard that explanation, but I have wondered.
I remember the explanation of the Way tree structure as being based in Jethro's advise to Moses to set up a bureaucracy of leadership with him at the top. Delegation of power.
Wasnt there a class at one time on the way tree..Im pretty sure, cause it was the only one I missed..
There was, indeed, a class by that very name.
When I took it, Johnny T. taught it live but I'm sure it was on video also.
I still have the Silly-bus.(somewhere)
Shifra
Yes, TWI stands for The Way International.
I think it's an acronym that originated here on GreaseSpot 'cause some of us have fingers that like(out of necessity) to abbreviate things.
Now you have me on a quest to check that old syllabus and look at that reference you cited.Thanks a lot! :-)
Ya know, at one time, I was a "twig area coordinator" because there were not enough twigs in my area to split into another branch. Another time, I was a "zone coordinator" because ------------Hmmmm!------don't remember why.
(Except that particular branch was geographically isolated from the next nearest branch and I was the only Advanced Class grad around.) HeeHeeHee---- As if that made me somehow more qualified.
So how the heck did those experiences fit with the structure of a tree?
The Way Tree was established by VP Wierwille in about 1971 to give him authoritarian control and centralized power over everyone in TWI. Early leaders such as Dave Anderson, Steve Heefner and Peter Wade left because of this new authoritarian structure with Wierwille (and his yes-men, his brother and Ermal Owens as trustees) at the top.
Heefner left in 1972 because of "tight controls, centralization and money disputes" with "one authority and no avenue of recourse" (Ft Wayne Jorunal-Gazette Mar 14, 1979)
Anderson left in 1973, aserting that Wierwille began to use the Way Tree to contriol everyone in TWI, saying
"By the time I left The Way, there was no longer any room for challenge. There was one leader with complete and absolute control. The Man of God whose revelation was unquestionable, could turn liberty into license without the possibility for correction from anyone on earth. In 1965 I heard 'the greatest of these is love,' in 1973 I heard 'the love of God does not work- we're going to put some teeth in this ministry'" (Anderson, letter to the editor of The Evening Leader, St Mary's Ohio, Jan 17, 1979)
Peter Wade added, "since 1971 when VP Wierwille decided to put 'some teeth into the ministry' and succeeded in draining the life out of it, TWI now deserves its chapters in recent books such as 'Youth, Brainwashing and the Cults'... five top leaders departed in one year'" (The Evening Leader, 1979)
This was part of the reason for the complete failure of the First Way Corps (the 2nd Corps was renamed the 1st to cover its failure)
(all these and additional material is included on pp 32f of my monograph, "From Vesper Chimes to TWI")
Before 1971 there was a "Board of Directors" (not trustees) which actually had some influence over the direction of TWI. But that was terminated by Wierwille when he put himself at the top of The Way Tree. It never was a tree, with roots at the bottom, it was a pyramid, with himself at the very heavy top, burdening all under him. A very self-serving structure. He used TWI to serve all his desires, for ego gratification, money, women, travel, hunting, keeping control of his family farm, (it would probably have been lost or sold had TWI not taken it over), etc.
Hey -- do you have a link to the specific topic at Family Tables???
The link you posted (at least for me) goes to the home page only.
Thanks!
David
For some reason I can't get the specific page to link...after linking to Family tables, click on "personal stories" then go to "Into the Fray" part 2
Edited by Oakspear
Heefner left in 1972 because of "tight controls, centralization and money disputes" with "one authority and no avenue of recourse" (Ft Wayne Jorunal-Gazette Mar 14, 1979)
Anderson left in 1973, aserting that Wierwille began to use the Way Tree to contriol everyone in TWI, saying
"By the time I left The Way, there was no longer any room for challenge. There was one leader with complete and absolute control. The Man of God whose revelation was unquestionable, could turn liberty into license without the possibility for correction from anyone on earth. In 1965 I heard 'the greatest of these is love,' in 1973 I heard 'the love of God does not work- we're going to put some teeth in this ministry'" (Anderson, letter to the editor of The Evening Leader, St Mary's Ohio, Jan 17, 1979)
Peter Wade added, "since 1971 when VP Wierwille decided to put 'some teeth into the ministry' and succeeded in draining the life out of it, TWI now deserves its chapters in recent books such as 'Youth, Brainwashing and the Cults'... five top leaders departed in one year'" (The Evening Leader, 1979)
(all these and additional material is included on pp 32f of my monograph, "From Vesper Chimes to TWI")
It never was a tree, with roots at the bottom, it was a pyramid, with himself at the very heavy top, burdening all under him. A very self-serving structure. He used TWI to serve all his desires, for ego gratification, money, women, travel, hunting, keeping control of his family farm, (it would probably have been lost or sold had TWI not taken it over), etc.
John
Very telling, John. Thank you!
Pity vee pee continued to succeed despite those great men leaving the ministry. Thankfully we have the internet these days to document, expose and remind people of these things and, hopefully, save other innocent lives from being sucked into that he11 hole of a whited sepulchre.
They were teaching the tree structure as late as 93 when I got involved. It must have been some time after that when craig started obliterating the tree terminology.... I'm thinking it wasn't till 96 or later.
Pity vee pee continued to succeed despite those great men leaving the ministry. Thankfully we have the internet these days to document, expose and remind people of these things and, hopefully, save other innocent lives from being sucked into that he11 hole of a whited sepulchre.
They were teaching the tree structure as late as 93 when I got involved. It must have been some time after that when craig started obliterating the tree terminology.... I'm thinking it wasn't till 96 or later.
I dont remember any teachings about the way tree or the structure, in the 90's Belle. Can you elaborate?
I think wordwolf and belle have hit on the 2 major "ideological" tipping points regarding why vic really pushed the consolidation and eventual "denominationalization" of twi doctrines.........from a chronological perspective, i think the tipping point came in the spring of 1972, when vic pranced out john townsend as the "frontman" for the teaching and establishment , the "formalization" of the way tree.........prior to that time, there were only "fellowships", not twigs........we were'nt "joining twi".......there was no twi,.....it was "the way, inc."....back then........."the way ministry"........the brc had the word "ecumenical" stamped on its dedicatory placque, hung at the main entrance.........we were "getting into the word",........becoming "born-again christians"............."getting into the ministry".........which back in 1970......(when i "got in")......consisted of, "headquarters", in new knoxville ("the farm").....the way west, the way east, the way of north carolina (the ecu crowd, et al), the way of kansas (primarily fugit in wichita, followed shortly by townsend),...the way of indiana, the way of ohio, and the way of australia............after the "summer school"....sessions of 1969 and 1970, at hq........things really began mushrooming all over the states..........in the way east, we went from nothing in early 1970 to thousands of "grads" all over the northeast........hundreds of classes, hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tithes and offerings, bookstore sales, class registration "donations"....etc., etc.,.....
the only "formal doctrines" were the foundational, intermediate and advanced classes (with accompanying syllabi), "the collaterals" (a collection of about 62 pamphlets, including "pamphlet" versions of christians should be prosperous and adan) and whatever notes people took at summer school and/or family camps!!!........the structure was incredibly "loose" compared to what many came to know in the years following the spring of '72!!!............thousands of details are flying through my mind right now.......but, suffice it to say.......the incredible increase in cashflow and "membership" provided a major windfall for vic and the boys in nk!!!..........in 1972, vic "brought it all home" to the farm.......way east and way west leaders were axed with the various "rumors" of misuse of the money, "ego problems" and not "listeneing to the man of god" at headquarters.............almost over night, "blue forms" appeared, all money was deposited directly into newly established "limb" bank accounts.....fellowships became twigs, branches, areas and limbs with "leadership" ordained and appointed by headquarters and then "down the tree"........going wow and corps was now the only "right" way of moving the word and growing "spiritually"........vic consolidated financial and doctrinal control over "his ministry" centralizing and dictating all in and from new knoxville!!!......he was our "father in the word" now.....not merely "the teacher" any more........suddenly there were new seminars, jcing became the "big deal" in 1973........and the money just kept pouring in!!.......if you did'nt line up with hq, you were "out of fellowship".......usually "possessed",....."tripped out"......the pfal series was dogmatized, the way tree institutionalized and the "way ministry" was denominationalized into "the way international"!!!
so, to gain and maintain control over the leadership and the money,......vic went about full force giving twi it's unique identity, tatooing his way over "the way", his teachings over "the word" and his lifestyle upon the "followers of the way".........the doctrine became "written in stone" and its purest form was available only from "the farm",through "the teacher", our newly crowned "father in the word"....bringing new light to our generation by formalizing all the stuff he plagerized, stole and "received from god" into HIS ministry.......and personal "cash cow"!!!.............hence "the scarcity" of the "rightly-divided word, as it has'nt been taught since the first century".....became an ever more necessary "club" in the hands of the apostle vic used to bludgeon the identity of his ministry into the hungry minds of his faithful "grads".......the spurious doctrines hinted at in the pfal series now became books, seminars, research projects, films, public ex's, rock of ages, etc., etc.,....ad infinitum!.................so....the "WHEN"......as far as "putting some teeth into the ministry".......imo........truly was in the spring of 1972 with the imposition of the way tree structure upon those who were formerly simply "followers of the way".............what a toxic spring that turned out to be!!!!..........................peace.
Hi Oakspeare!.......and hi to all who have posted on this thread.................
i copied the above post from another thread to save some time.........the "revelation" of the way tree was given to vic, according to him,.......in order to establish the administrative structure of twi...............as i stated above......no one in the "early" daze of the way east.....where i got "involved" with twi in late 1970.......really ever heard much about it..........steve and sandi heefner were our "leaders"......he was the only "ordained" clergyman in the way east when he came to us.......ordained in november, 1970 if i remember correctly.....along with john lynn and boob moyihan by vic at new knoxville at a special sns.........btw, steve was ....imo.....a really great guy!.......to this day i regret not being able to offer more tangible support to him and sandi when they were fired by vic during the ac in rye, ny in april of 1972..............this was not too long after jim and judy doop were fired publicly from the way west during "the way presents" fiasco in ca...........steve was a genuine minister and friend....and he was NOT wrong!........as another interesting side note, it was chris geer who provided the "inside" covert support for vic in all the shenanigans they pulled to fire steve during that ac........his reward was to be made the lc in massachusetts in june of '72!!.....
as i stated in the previous post, it was john townsend who was "pranced out" to teach the way tree seminar on video, not fugit......fugit was the "evangelist" who taught the first video seminar on witnessing and undershepherding, which was later replaced by a seminar of the same name, filmed during "living victoriously" in june, 1982 including vince finnegan and ralph dubofsky as the teachers........the real push for formalizing and establishing the way tree structure in twi began in the spring of 1972.....as i stated above, in order to "lock in" vic's absolute control over the leadership and money............especially the money.............prior to the spring of '72......all the 'limbs"......i.e. the way west, the way east, etc.,............were independent "corporations"..........each "limb" decided on its own how much money wouyld be "abundantly shared" with "the farm" in nk........as did each area or branch decide how much it would send to the limb.........all expenses (like rent, salaries, cars, gas, "petty cash", refreshments for meetings, etc., etc.,).......were handled by and at the local level by the local leaders........all decisions regarding allocation of the money were made at the local levels......until......the ominous spring of '72................this was when hq in nk became the vatican of twi......the only rule for faith and practice......no more questions!!!!.......
the info provided by johnj in his post on this thread augments the facts surrounding the "circling of the wagons" by vic and da boyz in '72......btw.....the "original" bot was established in 1957, when vic and harry incorporated the way after getting the ancestral family farm to be "the ministry's" after vic "left" the church in van wert................the board of directors never really wielded much real power over the corporation other than "nominally".........from '57-69........basically "rubber stamping" what vic, harry and ermal decided with occasional disputes over money..............but the bylaws of the corporation from 1957 clearly gave final say to the original 3 bot members...............this was totally "etched in stone" by early '71 if not earlier.............
so, when the money became "serious" by 1972,.....vic made sure he and harry were totally in control of ALL OF IT!..........hence the teaching and institutionalization of the way tree provided them the exclusive authority to control doctrine, practice and (most importantly) ALL THE MONEY that twi had..............
....as another interesting side note, it was chris geer who provided the "inside" covert support for vic in all the shenanigans they pulled to fire steve during that ac........his reward was to be made the lc in massachusetts in june of '72!!.....
Un-freakin-believable..!!
Cgeer slithers into a limb coordinator position in June of '72.
Man, it sounds like two narcisstic personalities conspired together early on......collaborating in evil undertakings and lecherous dealings. And, again......the pieces of this puzzle keep on a'coming.
It is not my original one, it is one that got left behind when my first wife and I went splitsville.
It's really nothing more than a corporate structure outline.
(With some scripture references sprinkled in for decoration.)
There is some comical stuff in it.
For example, it says that "the structure of the early church was like a tree- divided up geographically-logical, convenient".
I'm no history expert, but that is definitely NOT how the first century church was "organized".
There was nothing "convenient" about the way they had to meet.
People in the first century met secretly in small groups out of fear of being persecuted.
(Of course, that does not negate the value of meeting in small groups.)
Then, there is a chart showing the "tree" of the first century church.
I gotta tell ya, it's hard for me to imagine how the twig that met in Chloe's house in Corinth had very much, if any, connection( beyond Paul's acknowledgment of their existence) to the so-called "root" in Jerusalem.
I don't think you could organize a tree like structure so closely tied together even today with the internet, etc.
But, page 10 stresses that the development of a tree like structure is "not new".
Now, here's some interesting stuff on the intro page.
A twig has 3 or more members and meets nightly or not less than once a week.
A branch meets monthly or not less than every three months.
A limb meets every six months/ not less than once a year.
Trunk---every three years.
Root--- Three segments
1. BOT--3 trustees
2. Inter. HQ---head presbyter of each trunk
3.BOD---all head presbyters of limbs and branches plus selected directors of the BOT and Inter.HQ.
Meet once every five years
How in Heaven's name could this possibly be an accurate replica of "the church" as it existed in the first century?
And, where in the world did these specific numbers come from?--Not the Bible, that's for certain.
Yeah, I know.
Now some joker pops in and says."Ooh, it all came by revelation."
Sounds more to me like it came from a "how to" manual on starting an MLM.
I got in in 1972 in PA. There was just a fellowship run by Eddie Fisher. It was still very sweet, later when we became a limb with twigs and branches. But I recall when it was just people fellowshiping -- I do not remember being called a branch yet.
It explains where the sweetness went.... Make way for the craziness.....
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excathedra
oak (nopunintended), wasn't there a fig or a stick of gum involved ?
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waysider
When I got witnessed to in Cleveland, the spring of 1972, the group of high school kids who witnessed to me talked about "twig".
I had no idea what the term meant.
At the time, I thought it was perhaps an acronym( like SCUBA is an acronym for "self contained underwater breathing apparatus")
Soooooo, the Way Tree already existed at that point in time.( spring, 1972)
Also, there was a state news letter called The Buckeye Cambium.
In botany, the cambium is a thin growth layer between the bark and the wood.
Annual growth rings are a result of cambium activity.
The cambium is what causes a tree trunk to increase in diameter.
I'm not sure, but I think the limb leader at that time(E@rl B^rt0n) came up with the idea of naming the news letter.
It was a pretty good name, in my opinion.
International HQ said the name would have to be changed because "growth comes from the root".
It was then changed to The Grapevine,(As if that was more botanically accurate
)
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likeaneagle
Wasnt there a class at one time on the way tree..Im pretty sure, cause it was the only one I missed..
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Shifra
Funny ... but as I've posted for awhile on Greasespot, and used the acronym of TWI for The Way International, I have wondered if "TWI" might have been the origin of the word "Twig". Never heard that explanation, but I have wondered.
I remember the explanation of the Way tree structure as being based in Jethro's advise to Moses to set up a bureaucracy of leadership with him at the top. Delegation of power.
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waysider
There was, indeed, a class by that very name.
When I took it, Johnny T. taught it live but I'm sure it was on video also.
I still have the Silly-bus.(somewhere)
Shifra
Yes, TWI stands for The Way International.
I think it's an acronym that originated here on GreaseSpot 'cause some of us have fingers that like(out of necessity) to abbreviate things.
Now you have me on a quest to check that old syllabus and look at that reference you cited.Thanks a lot! :-)
Ya know, at one time, I was a "twig area coordinator" because there were not enough twigs in my area to split into another branch. Another time, I was a "zone coordinator" because ------------Hmmmm!------don't remember why.
(Except that particular branch was geographically isolated from the next nearest branch and I was the only Advanced Class grad around.) HeeHeeHee---- As if that made me somehow more qualified.
So how the heck did those experiences fit with the structure of a tree?
Oh, wait! I know.
It made me a "sucker".
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now I see
Here's some threads regarding the early days of TWI, they tell the story:
Old Thread: TWI1, TWI2, TWI3 -- From Waydale
Jim Doop, the way west and vp
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dmiller
Hiya Oak! :)
Hey -- do you have a link to the specific topic at Family Tables???
The link you posted (at least for me) goes to the home page only.
Thanks!
David
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johnj
The Way Tree was established by VP Wierwille in about 1971 to give him authoritarian control and centralized power over everyone in TWI. Early leaders such as Dave Anderson, Steve Heefner and Peter Wade left because of this new authoritarian structure with Wierwille (and his yes-men, his brother and Ermal Owens as trustees) at the top.
Heefner left in 1972 because of "tight controls, centralization and money disputes" with "one authority and no avenue of recourse" (Ft Wayne Jorunal-Gazette Mar 14, 1979)
Anderson left in 1973, aserting that Wierwille began to use the Way Tree to contriol everyone in TWI, saying
"By the time I left The Way, there was no longer any room for challenge. There was one leader with complete and absolute control. The Man of God whose revelation was unquestionable, could turn liberty into license without the possibility for correction from anyone on earth. In 1965 I heard 'the greatest of these is love,' in 1973 I heard 'the love of God does not work- we're going to put some teeth in this ministry'" (Anderson, letter to the editor of The Evening Leader, St Mary's Ohio, Jan 17, 1979)
Peter Wade added, "since 1971 when VP Wierwille decided to put 'some teeth into the ministry' and succeeded in draining the life out of it, TWI now deserves its chapters in recent books such as 'Youth, Brainwashing and the Cults'... five top leaders departed in one year'" (The Evening Leader, 1979)
This was part of the reason for the complete failure of the First Way Corps (the 2nd Corps was renamed the 1st to cover its failure)
(all these and additional material is included on pp 32f of my monograph, "From Vesper Chimes to TWI")
Before 1971 there was a "Board of Directors" (not trustees) which actually had some influence over the direction of TWI. But that was terminated by Wierwille when he put himself at the top of The Way Tree. It never was a tree, with roots at the bottom, it was a pyramid, with himself at the very heavy top, burdening all under him. A very self-serving structure. He used TWI to serve all his desires, for ego gratification, money, women, travel, hunting, keeping control of his family farm, (it would probably have been lost or sold had TWI not taken it over), etc.
John
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Oakspear
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hiway29
Donnie Fugit taught the video Way Tree class that I took.
I enjoyed it more than most, because Donnie didn't seem like such a 'tool'.
He had me buying into the bull for awhile there.
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hiway29
Or did Donnie do "witnessing and Undersheperding', and Earl Burton the Way Tree.
Man, it's all becoming a blur.
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Belle
Very telling, John. Thank you!
Pity vee pee continued to succeed despite those great men leaving the ministry. Thankfully we have the internet these days to document, expose and remind people of these things and, hopefully, save other innocent lives from being sucked into that he11 hole of a whited sepulchre.
They were teaching the tree structure as late as 93 when I got involved. It must have been some time after that when craig started obliterating the tree terminology.... I'm thinking it wasn't till 96 or later.
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likeaneagle
I dont remember any teachings about the way tree or the structure, in the 90's Belle. Can you elaborate?
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WhiteDove
That may be because they hacked off, too many pieces of the tree, before they discovered that they did not have enough pieces to make a new one.
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waysider
Yes, Donnie did teach W&U.
My memory of a class by Earl B. are foggy at best.
I do remember him doing some sort of "research" and subsequent lectures on the Firmament and the Great Flood.
Something about the flood being caused by a tear in the firmament that allowed the flood waters to rush through and flood the Earth.
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waysider
According to my Way Tree syllabus, each "twig" is to be self-supporting, self-propagating and self-governing.
That doesn't sound like a very accurate description of the tree in my backyard.
HMMMMM!-----Come to think of it, it doesn't sound like a very accurate description of the Way Tree either.
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Jim
How can I get a copy?
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DontWorryBeHappy
I think wordwolf and belle have hit on the 2 major "ideological" tipping points regarding why vic really pushed the consolidation and eventual "denominationalization" of twi doctrines.........from a chronological perspective, i think the tipping point came in the spring of 1972, when vic pranced out john townsend as the "frontman" for the teaching and establishment , the "formalization" of the way tree.........prior to that time, there were only "fellowships", not twigs........we were'nt "joining twi".......there was no twi,.....it was "the way, inc."....back then........."the way ministry"........the brc had the word "ecumenical" stamped on its dedicatory placque, hung at the main entrance.........we were "getting into the word",........becoming "born-again christians"............."getting into the ministry".........which back in 1970......(when i "got in")......consisted of, "headquarters", in new knoxville ("the farm").....the way west, the way east, the way of north carolina (the ecu crowd, et al), the way of kansas (primarily fugit in wichita, followed shortly by townsend),...the way of indiana, the way of ohio, and the way of australia............after the "summer school"....sessions of 1969 and 1970, at hq........things really began mushrooming all over the states..........in the way east, we went from nothing in early 1970 to thousands of "grads" all over the northeast........hundreds of classes, hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tithes and offerings, bookstore sales, class registration "donations"....etc., etc.,.....
the only "formal doctrines" were the foundational, intermediate and advanced classes (with accompanying syllabi), "the collaterals" (a collection of about 62 pamphlets, including "pamphlet" versions of christians should be prosperous and adan) and whatever notes people took at summer school and/or family camps!!!........the structure was incredibly "loose" compared to what many came to know in the years following the spring of '72!!!............thousands of details are flying through my mind right now.......but, suffice it to say.......the incredible increase in cashflow and "membership" provided a major windfall for vic and the boys in nk!!!..........in 1972, vic "brought it all home" to the farm.......way east and way west leaders were axed with the various "rumors" of misuse of the money, "ego problems" and not "listeneing to the man of god" at headquarters.............almost over night, "blue forms" appeared, all money was deposited directly into newly established "limb" bank accounts.....fellowships became twigs, branches, areas and limbs with "leadership" ordained and appointed by headquarters and then "down the tree"........going wow and corps was now the only "right" way of moving the word and growing "spiritually"........vic consolidated financial and doctrinal control over "his ministry" centralizing and dictating all in and from new knoxville!!!......he was our "father in the word" now.....not merely "the teacher" any more........suddenly there were new seminars, jcing became the "big deal" in 1973........and the money just kept pouring in!!.......if you did'nt line up with hq, you were "out of fellowship".......usually "possessed",....."tripped out"......the pfal series was dogmatized, the way tree institutionalized and the "way ministry" was denominationalized into "the way international"!!!
so, to gain and maintain control over the leadership and the money,......vic went about full force giving twi it's unique identity, tatooing his way over "the way", his teachings over "the word" and his lifestyle upon the "followers of the way".........the doctrine became "written in stone" and its purest form was available only from "the farm",through "the teacher", our newly crowned "father in the word"....bringing new light to our generation by formalizing all the stuff he plagerized, stole and "received from god" into HIS ministry.......and personal "cash cow"!!!.............hence "the scarcity" of the "rightly-divided word, as it has'nt been taught since the first century".....became an ever more necessary "club" in the hands of the apostle vic used to bludgeon the identity of his ministry into the hungry minds of his faithful "grads".......the spurious doctrines hinted at in the pfal series now became books, seminars, research projects, films, public ex's, rock of ages, etc., etc.,....ad infinitum!.................so....the "WHEN"......as far as "putting some teeth into the ministry".......imo........truly was in the spring of 1972 with the imposition of the way tree structure upon those who were formerly simply "followers of the way".............what a toxic spring that turned out to be!!!!..........................peace.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi Oakspeare!.......and hi to all who have posted on this thread.................
i copied the above post from another thread to save some time.........the "revelation" of the way tree was given to vic, according to him,.......in order to establish the administrative structure of twi...............as i stated above......no one in the "early" daze of the way east.....where i got "involved" with twi in late 1970.......really ever heard much about it..........steve and sandi heefner were our "leaders"......he was the only "ordained" clergyman in the way east when he came to us.......ordained in november, 1970 if i remember correctly.....along with john lynn and boob moyihan by vic at new knoxville at a special sns.........btw, steve was ....imo.....a really great guy!.......to this day i regret not being able to offer more tangible support to him and sandi when they were fired by vic during the ac in rye, ny in april of 1972..............this was not too long after jim and judy doop were fired publicly from the way west during "the way presents" fiasco in ca...........steve was a genuine minister and friend....and he was NOT wrong!........as another interesting side note, it was chris geer who provided the "inside" covert support for vic in all the shenanigans they pulled to fire steve during that ac........his reward was to be made the lc in massachusetts in june of '72!!.....
as i stated in the previous post, it was john townsend who was "pranced out" to teach the way tree seminar on video, not fugit......fugit was the "evangelist" who taught the first video seminar on witnessing and undershepherding, which was later replaced by a seminar of the same name, filmed during "living victoriously" in june, 1982 including vince finnegan and ralph dubofsky as the teachers........the real push for formalizing and establishing the way tree structure in twi began in the spring of 1972.....as i stated above, in order to "lock in" vic's absolute control over the leadership and money............especially the money.............prior to the spring of '72......all the 'limbs"......i.e. the way west, the way east, etc.,............were independent "corporations"..........each "limb" decided on its own how much money wouyld be "abundantly shared" with "the farm" in nk........as did each area or branch decide how much it would send to the limb.........all expenses (like rent, salaries, cars, gas, "petty cash", refreshments for meetings, etc., etc.,).......were handled by and at the local level by the local leaders........all decisions regarding allocation of the money were made at the local levels......until......the ominous spring of '72................this was when hq in nk became the vatican of twi......the only rule for faith and practice......no more questions!!!!.......
the info provided by johnj in his post on this thread augments the facts surrounding the "circling of the wagons" by vic and da boyz in '72......btw.....the "original" bot was established in 1957, when vic and harry incorporated the way after getting the ancestral family farm to be "the ministry's" after vic "left" the church in van wert................the board of directors never really wielded much real power over the corporation other than "nominally".........from '57-69........basically "rubber stamping" what vic, harry and ermal decided with occasional disputes over money..............but the bylaws of the corporation from 1957 clearly gave final say to the original 3 bot members...............this was totally "etched in stone" by early '71 if not earlier.............
so, when the money became "serious" by 1972,.....vic made sure he and harry were totally in control of ALL OF IT!..........hence the teaching and institutionalization of the way tree provided them the exclusive authority to control doctrine, practice and (most importantly) ALL THE MONEY that twi had..............
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skyrider
Un-freakin-believable..!!
Cgeer slithers into a limb coordinator position in June of '72.
Man, it sounds like two narcisstic personalities conspired together early on......collaborating in evil undertakings and lecherous dealings. And, again......the pieces of this puzzle keep on a'coming.
Why am I NOT surprised???
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waysider
I have a WT silly-bus here in front of me.
This particular one is dated 1974.
It is not my original one, it is one that got left behind when my first wife and I went splitsville.
It's really nothing more than a corporate structure outline.
(With some scripture references sprinkled in for decoration.)
There is some comical stuff in it.
For example, it says that "the structure of the early church was like a tree- divided up geographically-logical, convenient".
I'm no history expert, but that is definitely NOT how the first century church was "organized".
There was nothing "convenient" about the way they had to meet.
People in the first century met secretly in small groups out of fear of being persecuted.
(Of course, that does not negate the value of meeting in small groups.)
Then, there is a chart showing the "tree" of the first century church.
I gotta tell ya, it's hard for me to imagine how the twig that met in Chloe's house in Corinth had very much, if any, connection( beyond Paul's acknowledgment of their existence) to the so-called "root" in Jerusalem.
I don't think you could organize a tree like structure so closely tied together even today with the internet, etc.
But, page 10 stresses that the development of a tree like structure is "not new".
Now, here's some interesting stuff on the intro page.
A twig has 3 or more members and meets nightly or not less than once a week.
A branch meets monthly or not less than every three months.
A limb meets every six months/ not less than once a year.
Trunk---every three years.
Root--- Three segments
1. BOT--3 trustees
2. Inter. HQ---head presbyter of each trunk
3.BOD---all head presbyters of limbs and branches plus selected directors of the BOT and Inter.HQ.
Meet once every five years
How in Heaven's name could this possibly be an accurate replica of "the church" as it existed in the first century?
And, where in the world did these specific numbers come from?--Not the Bible, that's for certain.
Yeah, I know.
Now some joker pops in and says."Ooh, it all came by revelation."
Sounds more to me like it came from a "how to" manual on starting an MLM.
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Dot Matrix
Thanks JohnJ and DWBH
I got in in 1972 in PA. There was just a fellowship run by Eddie Fisher. It was still very sweet, later when we became a limb with twigs and branches. But I recall when it was just people fellowshiping -- I do not remember being called a branch yet.
It explains where the sweetness went.... Make way for the craziness.....
Thanks guys for taking the time to post that.
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Dot Matrix
Waysider:
GREAT observation!
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Dot Matrix
Silly question
Being as we have a tree
Trunk
Limb
Branch and
Twig
And they are all made of WOOD
Is that why we call the off shoots - splinters?
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