JEFF BLACKBURN/JOHN LYNN...IS THE CRISIS OVER?

[Belle]

Thanks, Eyes. My fins get around the search feature pretty well, just admiring the hypocrisy of some folks.

There are quite a few CES folks who watch this board and do really want answers to those questions. John Lynn and the CES leadership should have answered these questions publicly and among their own people without being asked. If nothing else, these issues should have been addressed on their websites.

Why won't John Lynn, Jeff Blackburn or any of the other leaders address these questions publicly? Why does he want to only dialog one-on-one? Because he does not want to answer the questions - he does not want accountability - he merely wants to intimidate the questioners into silence. He wants to spin and bullsh1t his way out of the mess he and his two-fold children of he11 have made of their ministry and the lives they have harmed in the process.

[Bumpy]

Sorry to interrupt...but THIS is a podcast you can put on as background music to soothe your emotions!

I haven’t listened to this stuff for years, but it sounds like I’ve heard “it” all somewhere before! It's the clarity of the voice and the presentation, as well as the humility and sincerity of the message! Can someone please tell me how long or how much practice does it take to get this all down so perfectly?

http://www.stfpodcast.com/File/apr2007_communityofgrace.mp3

You will be blessed!

[Belle]

Why won't John Lynn, Jeff Blackburn or any of the other leaders address these questions publicly? Why does he want to only dialog one-on-one?

Because he does not want to answer the questions - he does not want accountability - he merely wants to intimidate the questioners into silence. He wants to spin and bullsh1t his way out of the mess he and his two-fold children of he11 have made of their ministry and the lives they have harmed in the process.

[Larry N Moore]

Sorry to interrupt...but THIS is a podcast you can put on as background music to soothe your emotions!

Thanks Bumpy! It is soothing (almost to the point of putting me to sleep).

<snip> Can someone please tell me how long or how much practice does it take to get this all down so perfectly?

Hmm . . . I think GS has been in business for about 7 years. Don't you recognize perfection when you see it?

[Belle]

I haven’t listened to this stuff for years, but it sounds like I’ve heard “it” all somewhere before! It's the clarity of the voice and the presentation, as well as the humility and sincerity of the message! Can someone please tell me how long or how much practice does it take to get this all down so perfectly?

http://www.stfpodcast.com/File/apr2007_communityofgrace.mp3

You will be blessed!

I dunno if "blessed" is the word I would use, but the acting and presentation of the lesson is perfect.

Pity they don't actually live or practice any of it. -_-

[Ham]

Why won't John Lynn, Jeff Blackburn or any of the other leaders address these questions publicly? Why does he want to only dialog one-on-one?

ALMOST everyone I know who HAS, have walked away with glassy eyes.

Some of them practically can't remember what real issued they went to him on..

"call me, I'll COUNSEL you.."

Honestly, I think people are more than a little tired of little "need to know" stuff in damage control "sessions". I won't go back to one. "call me, I'll HELP you.." ??? No thanks, you helped your "ministry" enough as it is already..

Ya know.. this little situation here isn't like a gang of bullies, trying to get some poor guy with taped eyeglasses to meet them in the playground after school..

Maybe John can't get real, because he isn't real.. that is an option here..

It's like a scene out of Firesign Theater.. the guy trying to get a few answers out of the "president"..

"hey man, he broke the PRESIDENT"

[Ham]

I don't think he'd get the REAL hard questions like "Why does the Porridge Bird lay its egg in the air?"

"Noooooo..."

[doojable]

JAL has a post over on J*hn Rich*ards*n's site, tis true. He has the same message on his profile as he does here in that letter: "I'm so busy! If you want to talk to me either call me or email me."

Those who have been in his presence but not "graced with his favor" know that he likes to be in control of everything. JAL is a classic manipulator of information. In a crowd, he risks not being able to discredit the person who repeats what he says. The bully tactics don't work so well when many see them and can call him on them.

Quite frankly, I don't think he will ever show his face here. It matters not what vows he has made. That doesn't mean that his feet shouldn't be held to the fire.

[Belle]

John Lynn's response:

As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707. If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me.

Someone did contact him privately, personally via e-mail (Actually, many more than one person has).

John did not only avoid answering the questions asked of him, but also he tried to intimidate the person into silence. The only problem is, he got the person's name wrong and violated several confidences in the process. He may have broken the law regarding client confidentiality as well.

[doojable]

Not to mention that JAL helped put wings on that stuff flying around cyberspace about him and his personal life...

Edited November 17, 2007 by doojable

[DontWorryBeHappy]

HI THERE JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!.........ANOTHER DAY OF PRIME POSTING TIME HAS COME AND GONE, AND, STILL NO POSTS FROM YOU GUYS!!.........WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH YOU TWO??...............

FROM YOUR ARTICLE, "OUR VIEW OF CHRISTIAN SPIRITUALITY".....

Repentance, accounting, and dealing honestly with our ongoing sinful condition are ways of “cleansing the Temple.” Jesus zealously cleansed the physical temple in Jerusalem so that his Father’s house could be pure for worship. In like manner we are all called to present our bodies as living sacrifices or places of worship (Rom. 12:1). Cleansing our mind, heart, and body is a challenging process involving much hard work. But after our “temple” is cleansed, it becomes more useful as a place of deeper worship and joy as we experience more of the fullness of God’s presence. Embracing God more wholly and openly brings a sense of joy, hope, and celebration. We are once again transformed by his presence and power, and we move deeper into our true identity in Christ. Identification with Christ brings us more and more into a life that is a reflection of his life and ministry.

HAVE YOU GUYS ALREADY GONE THROUGH THIS "REPENTANCE, ACCOUNTING, AND DEALING HONESTLY WITH OUR ONGOING SINFUL CONDITION" PROCESS WHICH IS PART OF YOUR "VIEW" OF "CHRISTIAN SPIRITUALITY"??............HAVE YOU BEEN "ONCE AGAIN TRANSFORMED BY HIS PRESENCE AND POWER,..."??.....DOES CES/STFI ONCE AGAIN CONSIDER ITSELF TO BE "DEEPER INTO OUR TRUE IDENTITY IN CHRIST"??.......IS CES/STFI "MORE AND MORE INTO A LIFE THAT IS A REFLECTION OF HIS LIFE AND MINISTRY"??.......STILL WAITNG FOR YOUR POSTS HERE..............THANKS FOR "...ACCOUNTING, AND DEALING HONESTLY", WITH YOUR FRIENDS HERE AT THE GREASESPOT CAFE!...............................PEACE.

[Ham]

Hmm . . . I think GS has been in business for about 7 years. Don't you recognize perfection when you see it?

In principle, it's been around a whole lot longer..

[Ham]

That doesn't mean that his feet shouldn't be held to the fire.

fire has a few "redemptive" factors to it.. it does tend to burn away so much of the "dross" of life..

:)

I dunno.. it's all gonna burn anyway.. what's the big deal..

[doojable]

You're assuming of course that JAL doesn't know exactly who DWBH is...

Isn't it possible that you'remistaken concerning DWBH's motives and reasons?

[Larry N Moore]

You're assuming of course that JAL doesn't know exactly who DWBH is...

No, I'm not assuming that at all. Matter of fact I get the feeling that John knows DWBH quite well.

Isn't it possible that you're mistaken concerning DWBH's motives and reasons?

Anything's possible but, I see nothing in this thread to persuade me otherwise. Do you know what his motives and reasons are? Share them with me -- through PM email.

[Rejoice]

I read the link that Belle provided. It was written in 2004 and I don't see anything in there that has any specific comment from JAL about today's issues with CES/STFI, even though they came to GS for support.

TWI pushed the "need to know" and the lox-box concept as a way to say "it's none of your business."

Years ago when CES reached out to those who were hurt, promised they would make the wrong things right, they asked for financial and spiritual support, and then brought in teachings and activities that caused much harm such as Momentus for many and Personal Prophecy [even to John and his wife---hello!!] , well---what happened to making wrong things right?? They are operating like TWI did with the "lock box" concept and with secrecy.

I believe they brought Momentus and PP on board to have something "unique" to offer believers---something to tickle their hearts, much like VP did with the "Law of Believing" or the "Name it and Claim It" philosophy. If those ideas were true every time ["because if God says it, it will come to pass"], we'd all see much different results in our lives. But the truth is that some bad people may get the good they DON'T deserve, and good people may get the bad they DON'T deserve.

CES doesn't see that people are asking for affirmation that CES will admit mistakes, and ensure believers that they were NOT tricked again by an organization who proclaims a true love for God, His family, and His ways. Peoople are asking for specific clarification of TODAY's situation. Is John saying that teachings posted on their site are about exactly what has happened with CES? Teachings are encouragement and examples of how to live. They are no guarantee of restoration and reform.

Many saw CES/STFI as pastors and healers who could help them to deal with the emotional and spiritual hurts caused by TWI. That is a big responsibility that they offered and took upon themselves. And yet, when another "falling apart" of doctrine and practice occurs, it is of the utmost unfairness---a slap in the face if you will, for JAL and Jeff to treat God's family just as it was "in the old days."

If they can't understand that by their current actions of ignoring silence, then they have clearly revealed themselves without one more word or deed. <_<

[Ham]

John Lynn's response:

As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707. If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me.

technically, that is not a response. Unless you are JL himself.

He makes a statement.. people respond, ask questions.. then he.. what? Hides behind a previous claim that he will refuse to respond in a public forum?

I think JL wouldn't be any more warm about the idea of having some kind of ces town hall meeting with about 150 of us.. in person.

No shuffling off of the major players into little back rooms to try to control the damage..

You'd think he'd feel safer and more secure on a public forum like this..

maybe he just wants to retire.. maybe it just doesn't make any difference to him that he's leaving his "legacy" in shambles..

maybe he's afraid to take an honest look at it.. without some kinda "stick with the big T truth" spin.. too "negative"..

[doojable]

If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you.

If - you know me and

If - care about me

Then - I'll be glad to communicate with you.

However - JAL had no problem asking for CES business to be posted here where there was a mix of people who he did not know and who do have screen names.

It's a game. It's bait. It's dishonest.

[Ham]

Yeah.. bait though.. for whom? I don't think for the "average" follower.. I for one wouldn't have the stamina, or the inclination to try to build up another organization.

Probably shaking the tree to get a few "main players" into a back room somewhere to get pistol whipped with arguments about "agreeing on the big T truth.."

quote a few verses out of Phillipians or something..

or Corinthians.. "now gawd says we oughter not to be divided or nuttin.."

"now, anything else I can do for you?"

[Eyesopen]

Larry- Why are you trying to come to John's defence? He doesn't seem to give a darn what people think or say concerning him. His legacy is in the toilet and he remains silent.

Just from a logical point of view: A lot of people have questions of one single man. It would be easier for that man to simply address as many people as he can in one fell swoop. But instead he chooses to answer the masses individually. That just sounds idiotic.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Eyesopen

[HAPe4me]

.......

However - JAL had no problem asking for CES business to be posted here where there was a mix of people who he did not know and who do have screen names.

It's a game. It's bait. It's dishonest.

JL himself asked for CES business to be posted here? evidence of this? I just find that hard to believe, but am willing to see evidence to the contrary.

I seriously do not think many of those who post on this thread give a ratsazz about CES, but enjoy poking at JAL.

OK, continue in your fun, I seriously do not think JL is considering responding to this forum nor do I see why he should.

~HAP

[Larry N Moore]

Larry- Why are you trying to come to John's defence?

Although I can understand why you would think I am, I assure you that that's not what I'm doing.

He doesn't seem to give a darn what people think or say concerning him.

Why would you think that's true? Because he won't respond to DWBH? I (obviously) don't care what people (who don't really care for me) think or say about me. Throughout my life I've heard so many seemingly good people say negative things about me that I've gotten to the point that I could care less. What matters the most (and what I take notice of) are those people who love me when I'm at my best and especially at my worst.

His legacy is in the toilet and he remains silent.

Well, when he stands before God he'll have to answer to Him. So will you and I.

Just from a logical point of view: A lot of people have questions of one single man. It would be easier for that man to simply address as many people as he can in one fell swoop. But instead he chooses to answer the masses individually. That just sounds idiotic.

From a Biblical point of view I think Titus, chapter 3, makes a lot of logical sense when it says: A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

I don't see anywhere in that passage where it says we are to continuously badger that person until he submits to our interrogation. One of the things that turned me off of TWI is the thinking of leaders who thought it was their God-given right and authority to interrogate you until you submitted to their way of thinking. There's no love in that. But I'm sure they (the leaders of TWI) thought otherwise.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Larry N Moore

[Danny]

John's choice of words.

If you know me------Well if I don't does that mean I am not

your God's plan?

If you care about me----- Do you care about me?

I taught in that old bible it said something about gifts

were given for the prefecting of the saints?

Did you say you were that gift?

Did you say you were God's minister?

So I have to seek you out?

And if I am not in your group-favor

to bad I'm sad and God doesn't love me?

If I need his (john's) kind of love no thanks.

God's love is a different thing.

Was that a balk?

Edited November 18, 2007 by Danny

[Eyesopen]

Why would you think that's true? Because he won't respond to DWBH?

Only in part.

I don't see anywhere in that passage where it says we are to continuously badger that person until he submits to our interrogation.

He started the conversation by posting the information. Now there are those that would like to know what is happening now. It's like allowing us to see only the first two innings of a baseball game. How does it end? Did it end? That is not interrigation. That is honest curiosity and in some cases concern.

If you know me------Well if I don't does that mean I am not in your God's plan?

If you care about me----- Do you care about me?

I agree. And would add; why does this have to be personal? I am actually more concerned about the people of CES that were once again tricked and misled by so called ministers.

[Ham]

I seriously do not think many of those who post on this thread give a ratsazz about CES, but enjoy poking at JAL.

I dunno. I don't think it's exactly a party here..

It's gone from contempt, to disgust, to disappointment, to even loving exhortations.. the last WE knew, one half of the "body" was locked in a death struggle with the other half..

and we get a letter inviting us to be "doctored" by JL, by joining him in his sickness..

to the best we know, the "body" is not talking, moving, or even breathing..

next I think we will be playing funeral dirges for ces..

I don't know about JL.. but if I were to watch the work that took a lifetime of effort go down the crapper, it would be at least a little mentally "challenging".

Instead of writing a letter pontificating his viewpoints, that he "somehow" knew would end up here.. he really should have just asked for help. Instead.. "we KNOW prophecy, read my book.. buy it a www.ces.org"

I would have questions.. why is my organization falling apart.. how did the practice of MY doctrine result in a power struggle and death match.. brother against brother, in the courts..

how did MY doctrines and practice alienate my life partner.. and by God's and her love and grace, he has her back..

but no.. it's "the debil" or "the people" that's the cause of all of this.. we gotta be "right"..

John.. just keep holding that thought..