I suppose what sticks in my craw is that John Lynn has gone to great lengths to present himself as a "spiritual populist"...a blue collar itinernant minister...ready to sit down and talk to anyone. Alright already!...Here we are waiting with bated breath. He elbowed his way in here, posting all this drama and then splits without another word...
...C'mon John, tell us the rest of the story...it's only fair.
Alot of you should look at the posts you have written. I have never before seen such a group of venomous vipers before. Maybe you should look at yourselves before spewing forth.
Oh, I wonder how many are going to tell me some story of how they supposedly wronged you and absolutely destroyed your life and now you are living in poverty or in therapy six days a week (twice on saturdays) as a result of something they said. of course I don't know what I am talking about save your breath
venomous vipers? methinks you've spent too much time at altitude son...
First, Here is the thread that I believe started it all. Then, as I recall, JAL came here and posted a letter saying that he was way too busy and that he'd be happy to answer any and all questions on the phone.
Frankly that seemed like a contradiction to me. If a person is that busy they don't invite individual phone calls. It's all too easy to say different things to different people.
After that thread, there was a flurry of questions, threads, non-information, and misinformation, etc..
As has been stated more than once by more than one person, many people don't have need to know what is going on in STFI. OTOH - all these people that "don't have a need to know" were made privy to information. This smacks of more secret information, more cover-ups. So this forum was good enough to "sound an alarm" but now it's not needed?! Goodbye, too bad, so sad.
Is it really so wrong to want closure? CES and STFI started with people we know and care about. Even if I'm not involved, there are those that I care about involved. Besides, I remember when the call from JAL came on my phone...back in '87 or so....asking me to join forces. I'll bet there are others here that got similiar calls. It wasn't for me and I was clear about that - so I promptly outlived my usefulness - at least that was how I was treated.
It sure would keep the rumor mill from turning if information came straight from the source and not through alternate routes. Of course, perhaps then it wouldn't be as deniable.
The fine line is to want closure and not be cynical. Wouldn't it be great to be wrong? Wouldn't it be a refreshing surprise to see these men not sweep things under the carpet - yet again?
I have no stake in CES or STFI. It does seem like they do need to finish what they started.
GOOD EVENING ONCE MORE JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!............ANOTHER 24 HOURS HAS COME AND GONE, AND I HAVE NOY YET SEEN A POST FROM YOU HERE IN REPLY TO THOSE HONEST QUESTIONS I ASKED ALMOST ONE MONTH AGO!..........YOU GUYS STILL LIVE HERE IN THE U.S.A., DON'T YOU??
Believing that “all truth is God’s truth,” we value learning whatever we can from other churches, ministries, Christian denominations, or religious traditions. We will therefore continue to scout out anything that could be of value to our community
MANY "OTHER CHURCHES, MINISTRIES, CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS, OR RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS" ARE DISCUSSED, DEBATED, EXPOSED HERE AT THE GREASESPOT CAFE!......MAYBE YOU DON'T AGREE THAT THERE ARE ANY POSTERS HERE YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING FROM, BUT THERE ARE MANY MEMBERS HERE AT THE SPOT WHO WOULD VALUE LEARNING FROM YOU WHAT YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS ARE!........MAYBE YOU COULD "SCOUT OUT" THIS THREAD AND POST A REPLY OR TWO???........THAT, I THINK, WOULD BE OF TREMENDOUS VALUE TO YOUR COMMUNITY AND OUR'S AS WELL!!........STILL PATIENTLY AWAITING YOUR REPLIES!!.......................THANKS !..............................PEACE.
ok, for those of you who are truly interested, here's what's going on:
they're disbanding stfi. dismantling the entire operation, taking down the websites, wiping every hard drive, burning every syllabus, book and any other materials, and advising everyone on their mailing list to do the same. they're gonna take out a full-page ad in the NY Times that says "WE'RE SORRY. WE WERE WRONG." and then everyone's gonna get a job and stop being silly. oh, yeah, and they're returning all the money, too.
once all that's done, monkeys will fly out of my butt.
HI AGAIN JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!...........ANOTHER VISIT TO YOUR FORUM YIELDING YET ANOTHER DAY WITHOUT A REPLY FROM EITHER OF YOU!.......HOW COME, YOU GUYS??
We seek and value leaders who are loving, servant-hearted, balanced, flexible, and innovative, who have a strong commitment to manifesting the character of Christ and to guarding the accurate truth of God’s Word, as well as the vision, mission, and values of Spirit & Truth Fellowship International.
SO DO WE!........I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE COUNTED AMONG SUCH LEADERS?.........YOU WERE CERTAINLY "FLEXIBLE, AND INNOVATIVE" ENOUGH TO POST HERE AT THE SPOT EARLIER THIS YEAR!.......WHAT IS PREVENTING YOU FROM DOING SO AGAIN??..........HAVE YOU LOST YOUR "BALANCE"?.........DOES YOUR "COMMITMENT TO MANIFESTING THE CHARACTER OF CHRIST" REMAIN STRONG??..........IF YOU INDEED ARE STILL "LEADERS" IN CES/STF, CAN WE STILL EXPECT YOU TO BE "LOVING, SERVANT-HEARTED, BALANCED,FLEXIBLE, AND INNOVATIVE"???.............OR ARE WE TO ACCEPT THE SAME OLD NON-ANSWERS WE GOT AND GET FROM TWI???.................STILL HOPING TO HEAR FROM YOU HERE IN YOUR FORUM!!!......................PEACE.
HELLO AGAIN JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!..............ONE MONTH AGO TODAY I STARTED THIS THREAD BY ASKING YOU GUYS SOME STRAIGHTFORWARD, HONEST QUESTIONS IN THE HOPE THAT YOU WOULD REPLY HERE ON THIS FORUM SET UP FOR YOU AT THE GREASESPOT.........I HAVE FAITHFULLY CHECKED HERE EACH NIGHT SINCE THEN, AS I'M DOING AGAIN TONIGHT!.............STILL NO REPLY!.............AGAIN, WHY??
FROM YOUR WEBSITE.............UNDER "A BELIEVER'S BILL OF RIGHTS".................I
Have a right to respectfully dissent from any decision made by Spirit & Truth or a person representing Spirit & Truth without being subject to intimidation tactics. Gentle and loving persuasion will be utilized to win the dissenting or offended brother or sister. It is understood within the Spirit & Truth community that any servant/leader can be questioned, challenged or rebuked by any other believer according to the standards set forth in God’s word pertaining to the conduct of leaders and overseers in the Body of Christ.
ARE YOU GUYS STILL "SERVANT/LEADERS" IN CES/STF??............IF SO, YOU GRANTED ME THE RIGHT TO QUESTION YOU.......I HAVE DONE SO...........YOU GUYS, THUS FAR, HAVE NOT HAD THE LOVE OR TAKEN THE TIME TO POST ANYTHING IN RESPONSE TO MY QUESTIONS...........I CONTINUE TO WAIT PATIENTLY FOR YOU TO LIVE YOUR "CODE OF CONDUCT" AND EXHIBIT YOUR COMMITMENT TO YOUR STATEMENT OF VALUES!.........I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS!..............THANKS FOR YOUR "GENTLE AND LOVING" REPLIES!.......................PEACE.
It's quite the diss for mr Lyn* to be openly posting on every other forum 'cept this one..
He is making a very loud, "silent" point.
Not very repectful to be doing this to all of the outside supporters and helpers he's had here, some of whom had been faithfully supporting by financial contributions and interest in his organization for years and years.
I guess it shows that we here are dispensable people to him and their organization, feels like a blast from the past, a somewhat familiar position...again.
He could have at least made an appearance here too, even just to say that he's not commenting on his current situation...but no, he hasn't done that either.
None the less, what is, is...I never did mind about the little things.. life goes on.
It's quite the diss for mr Lyn* to be openly posting on every other forum 'cept this one..
What other forums are you referring to? I have yet to see someone actually post a link to the threads that JL participated on at GS.
He is making a very loud, "silent" point.
And obviously that point is -- Nope, ain't gonna happen but, if it amuses you do carry on.
Not very repectful to be doing this to all of the outside supporters and helpers he's had here, some of whom had been faithfully supporting by financial contributions and interest in his organization for years and years.
Perhaps it's his position that it's not very respectful of those who claim to be his supporters to be dissing him in public. He has made it known that those who (really) care about him are free to contact him via email or the phone.
I guess it shows that we here are dispensable people to him and their organization, feels like a blast from the past, a somewhat familiar position...again.
Or it could be that people whose agenda it is to attack him are not worth his time.
He could have at least made an appearance here too, even just to say that he's not commenting on his current situation...but no, he hasn't done that either.
I think his silence (assuming he's even aware of this thread) is comment enuf.
GOOD EVENING ONCE AGAIN, JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!..........HOPE YOU'RE BOTH HAVING A NICE WEEKEND SO FAR!.........JUST CHECKING IN ONCE MORE TO SEE IF EITHER OF YOU HAVE LEFT US ANY POSTS TODAY!..........LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE'NT................I DON'T GET IT!!..............I HAVE ASKED MY QUESTIONS RESPECTFULLY AS YOU "SERVANT/LEADERS" HAVE GIVEN ME THE RIGHT TO DO! WHY NO RESPONSE?
FROM "A BELIEVER'S BILL OF RIGHTS ON YOUR WEBSITE..........IT STATES THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO.......
Be treated with respect and honor as a fellow member in particular of the Body of Christ and as one gifted to serve his Lord in some capacity.
CERTAINLY AN ANSWER OF SOME KIND FROM EITHER OF YOU WOULD TREAT ME WITH SOME "RESPECT AND HONOR AS A FELLOW MEMBER IN PARTICULAR OF THE BODY OF CHRIST"!!...........YOU DO STILL BELIEVE I HAVE THAT RIGHT DON'T YOU??............OR HAVE YOU "TAKEN IT BACK"???............STILL PATIENTLY AWAITING A REPLY FROM YOU GUYS!!!!.............THANKS FOR THE RESPECT BY POSTING ONE OR TWO!...............PEACE!.
...............Belle said........These are fair and reasonable questions. Questions I hope that anyone still involved with or considering involvement with your group does ask and demand answers to.
..........As far as our sources indicate, there is no corporate soul-searching among the CES leaders as to how this happened or how to change so it doesn't happen again, no seeking outside help, no discussion of anything like Don't Worry's questions.
...........Further, there doesn't seem to be a corporate understanding among the Board/staff as to what even DID happen, but that a 'personnel change' was needed that was 'very sad for all involved'.
..........We doubt that anyone 'considering involvement with' CES would have any inkling of this forum or these or any other questions....because they would not have heard the slightest mention of a ministry 'problem'.
..........Those 'still involved with' CES who get their info from CES would also know nothing about anything.
.............Unless a CES follower here at the Cafe can tell us differently, we don't think CES has spoken or witten anything about the entire subject. We are told it's Full Steam Ahead at CES. Remember, it was the Cafe who entitled the thread...CES in Crisis. We're not sure CES leadership ever thought there was one.
Well folks... midnight has come and gone and I regret to inform you that DWBH was detained by 'external forces' at the Texas BBQ (something to do with hops & barley)...
...but Don't Worry... he'll be back later today with another award winning post! ...Be Happy!!!
Sounds like they are handling things exactly like TWI does. No surprise there. The leaders' conscience is seared.
It is sad that those involved with CES are not taking a greater interest in how things are run in "their" ministry, especially if all of this stuff happening has raised no red flags for them. And, doubly so if those people were involved with TWI at one time, but I suppose Sushi's signature line is apropos to the situation, "the lessons repeat until they are learned."
Regarding people just getting introduced to CES, I would hope that they would check things out on the internet, but you are correct, a lot of people don't. Heck, people still buy used cars these days without getting a CarFax report - which is beyond my comprehension. :blink: But, there are plenty of people who do, and, hopefully, there will be those who check out CES before giving them any time or money.
CES operates the classic BITE model used by cults that Steve Hassan has written about.
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DontWorryBeHappy
HEY JEFF!..........HEY JOHN!.............WHAT'S UP?? It's been almost a year now since you guys posted a load of your information, a long letter from you, john, as well as a number of other lengthy l
waysider
Just so you know, I put the quotation marks around it to indicate those are not my words.
Ham
and they can't hear or see the steam-roller heading in their very very own direction.. I've seen it heading in mine.. but that is life, isn't it? I'm "lucky(?)".. heh. I've had the advanced notice
Ham
Not to mention what they owe THEMSELVES. A chance to look at the man in the mirror.. be "da man" they knew to be..
or are they gonna wait the rest of a lifetime, and have some stupid motto like that on their tombstone..
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GrouchoMarxJr
I suppose what sticks in my craw is that John Lynn has gone to great lengths to present himself as a "spiritual populist"...a blue collar itinernant minister...ready to sit down and talk to anyone. Alright already!...Here we are waiting with bated breath. He elbowed his way in here, posting all this drama and then splits without another word...
...C'mon John, tell us the rest of the story...it's only fair.
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rascal
To use such venom to decry the venom in others was pretty darned funny Out There :)
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Tom Strange
venomous vipers? methinks you've spent too much time at altitude son...
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doojable
First, Here is the thread that I believe started it all. Then, as I recall, JAL came here and posted a letter saying that he was way too busy and that he'd be happy to answer any and all questions on the phone.
Frankly that seemed like a contradiction to me. If a person is that busy they don't invite individual phone calls. It's all too easy to say different things to different people.
After that thread, there was a flurry of questions, threads, non-information, and misinformation, etc..
As has been stated more than once by more than one person, many people don't have need to know what is going on in STFI. OTOH - all these people that "don't have a need to know" were made privy to information. This smacks of more secret information, more cover-ups. So this forum was good enough to "sound an alarm" but now it's not needed?! Goodbye, too bad, so sad.
Is it really so wrong to want closure? CES and STFI started with people we know and care about. Even if I'm not involved, there are those that I care about involved. Besides, I remember when the call from JAL came on my phone...back in '87 or so....asking me to join forces. I'll bet there are others here that got similiar calls. It wasn't for me and I was clear about that - so I promptly outlived my usefulness - at least that was how I was treated.
It sure would keep the rumor mill from turning if information came straight from the source and not through alternate routes. Of course, perhaps then it wouldn't be as deniable.
The fine line is to want closure and not be cynical. Wouldn't it be great to be wrong? Wouldn't it be a refreshing surprise to see these men not sweep things under the carpet - yet again?
I have no stake in CES or STFI. It does seem like they do need to finish what they started.
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DontWorryBeHappy
GOOD EVENING ONCE MORE JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!............ANOTHER 24 HOURS HAS COME AND GONE, AND I HAVE NOY YET SEEN A POST FROM YOU HERE IN REPLY TO THOSE HONEST QUESTIONS I ASKED ALMOST ONE MONTH AGO!..........YOU GUYS STILL LIVE HERE IN THE U.S.A., DON'T YOU??
Believing that “all truth is God’s truth,” we value learning whatever we can from other churches, ministries, Christian denominations, or religious traditions. We will therefore continue to scout out anything that could be of value to our community
MANY "OTHER CHURCHES, MINISTRIES, CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS, OR RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS" ARE DISCUSSED, DEBATED, EXPOSED HERE AT THE GREASESPOT CAFE!......MAYBE YOU DON'T AGREE THAT THERE ARE ANY POSTERS HERE YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING FROM, BUT THERE ARE MANY MEMBERS HERE AT THE SPOT WHO WOULD VALUE LEARNING FROM YOU WHAT YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS ARE!........MAYBE YOU COULD "SCOUT OUT" THIS THREAD AND POST A REPLY OR TWO???........THAT, I THINK, WOULD BE OF TREMENDOUS VALUE TO YOUR COMMUNITY AND OUR'S AS WELL!!........STILL PATIENTLY AWAITING YOUR REPLIES!!.......................THANKS !..............................PEACE.
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Ham
I think "they" have the monumental "opportunity" here, to pull off the posturing and religious garb they've sown for THEMSELVES.. and just be "real"..
will the "real" J.L. stand up..
maybe that's asking for too much..
I'll bet he can be openly sarcastic and arrogant.. as well as loving, kind..
I really think they want to be something that they in a human sense can never be..
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RumRunner
Daimie - Why you do dis to me?
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sprawled out
ok, for those of you who are truly interested, here's what's going on:
they're disbanding stfi. dismantling the entire operation, taking down the websites, wiping every hard drive, burning every syllabus, book and any other materials, and advising everyone on their mailing list to do the same. they're gonna take out a full-page ad in the NY Times that says "WE'RE SORRY. WE WERE WRONG." and then everyone's gonna get a job and stop being silly. oh, yeah, and they're returning all the money, too.
once all that's done, monkeys will fly out of my butt.
any questions?
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Tom Strange
you better lube up sprawled!
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doojable
Flying monkeys???!!!
Now you're just being silly.....;)
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DontWorryBeHappy
HI AGAIN JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!...........ANOTHER VISIT TO YOUR FORUM YIELDING YET ANOTHER DAY WITHOUT A REPLY FROM EITHER OF YOU!.......HOW COME, YOU GUYS??
We seek and value leaders who are loving, servant-hearted, balanced, flexible, and innovative, who have a strong commitment to manifesting the character of Christ and to guarding the accurate truth of God’s Word, as well as the vision, mission, and values of Spirit & Truth Fellowship International.
SO DO WE!........I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE COUNTED AMONG SUCH LEADERS?.........YOU WERE CERTAINLY "FLEXIBLE, AND INNOVATIVE" ENOUGH TO POST HERE AT THE SPOT EARLIER THIS YEAR!.......WHAT IS PREVENTING YOU FROM DOING SO AGAIN??..........HAVE YOU LOST YOUR "BALANCE"?.........DOES YOUR "COMMITMENT TO MANIFESTING THE CHARACTER OF CHRIST" REMAIN STRONG??..........IF YOU INDEED ARE STILL "LEADERS" IN CES/STF, CAN WE STILL EXPECT YOU TO BE "LOVING, SERVANT-HEARTED, BALANCED,FLEXIBLE, AND INNOVATIVE"???.............OR ARE WE TO ACCEPT THE SAME OLD NON-ANSWERS WE GOT AND GET FROM TWI???.................STILL HOPING TO HEAR FROM YOU HERE IN YOUR FORUM!!!......................PEACE.
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sprawled out
no, really--i swear!
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DontWorryBeHappy
HELLO AGAIN JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!..............ONE MONTH AGO TODAY I STARTED THIS THREAD BY ASKING YOU GUYS SOME STRAIGHTFORWARD, HONEST QUESTIONS IN THE HOPE THAT YOU WOULD REPLY HERE ON THIS FORUM SET UP FOR YOU AT THE GREASESPOT.........I HAVE FAITHFULLY CHECKED HERE EACH NIGHT SINCE THEN, AS I'M DOING AGAIN TONIGHT!.............STILL NO REPLY!.............AGAIN, WHY??
FROM YOUR WEBSITE.............UNDER "A BELIEVER'S BILL OF RIGHTS".................I
Have a right to respectfully dissent from any decision made by Spirit & Truth or a person representing Spirit & Truth without being subject to intimidation tactics. Gentle and loving persuasion will be utilized to win the dissenting or offended brother or sister. It is understood within the Spirit & Truth community that any servant/leader can be questioned, challenged or rebuked by any other believer according to the standards set forth in God’s word pertaining to the conduct of leaders and overseers in the Body of Christ.
ARE YOU GUYS STILL "SERVANT/LEADERS" IN CES/STF??............IF SO, YOU GRANTED ME THE RIGHT TO QUESTION YOU.......I HAVE DONE SO...........YOU GUYS, THUS FAR, HAVE NOT HAD THE LOVE OR TAKEN THE TIME TO POST ANYTHING IN RESPONSE TO MY QUESTIONS...........I CONTINUE TO WAIT PATIENTLY FOR YOU TO LIVE YOUR "CODE OF CONDUCT" AND EXHIBIT YOUR COMMITMENT TO YOUR STATEMENT OF VALUES!.........I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS!..............THANKS FOR YOUR "GENTLE AND LOVING" REPLIES!.......................PEACE.
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GrouchoMarxJr
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now I see
It's quite the diss for mr Lyn* to be openly posting on every other forum 'cept this one..
He is making a very loud, "silent" point.
Not very repectful to be doing this to all of the outside supporters and helpers he's had here, some of whom had been faithfully supporting by financial contributions and interest in his organization for years and years.
I guess it shows that we here are dispensable people to him and their organization, feels like a blast from the past, a somewhat familiar position...again.
He could have at least made an appearance here too, even just to say that he's not commenting on his current situation...but no, he hasn't done that either.
None the less, what is, is...I never did mind about the little things.. life goes on.
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Tom Strange
well... it is his choice I guess... of course, I'm not the one who held myself up in front of 'the body' and took the vows... he (and they) did...
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Larry N Moore
What other forums are you referring to? I have yet to see someone actually post a link to the threads that JL participated on at GS.
And obviously that point is -- Nope, ain't gonna happen but, if it amuses you do carry on.Perhaps it's his position that it's not very respectful of those who claim to be his supporters to be dissing him in public. He has made it known that those who (really) care about him are free to contact him via email or the phone.
Or it could be that people whose agenda it is to attack him are not worth his time.I think his silence (assuming he's even aware of this thread) is comment enuf.
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DontWorryBeHappy
GOOD EVENING ONCE AGAIN, JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!..........HOPE YOU'RE BOTH HAVING A NICE WEEKEND SO FAR!.........JUST CHECKING IN ONCE MORE TO SEE IF EITHER OF YOU HAVE LEFT US ANY POSTS TODAY!..........LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE'NT................I DON'T GET IT!!..............I HAVE ASKED MY QUESTIONS RESPECTFULLY AS YOU "SERVANT/LEADERS" HAVE GIVEN ME THE RIGHT TO DO! WHY NO RESPONSE?
FROM "A BELIEVER'S BILL OF RIGHTS ON YOUR WEBSITE..........IT STATES THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO.......
Be treated with respect and honor as a fellow member in particular of the Body of Christ and as one gifted to serve his Lord in some capacity.
CERTAINLY AN ANSWER OF SOME KIND FROM EITHER OF YOU WOULD TREAT ME WITH SOME "RESPECT AND HONOR AS A FELLOW MEMBER IN PARTICULAR OF THE BODY OF CHRIST"!!...........YOU DO STILL BELIEVE I HAVE THAT RIGHT DON'T YOU??............OR HAVE YOU "TAKEN IT BACK"???............STILL PATIENTLY AWAITING A REPLY FROM YOU GUYS!!!!.............THANKS FOR THE RESPECT BY POSTING ONE OR TWO!...............PEACE!.
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thankfulone2
...............Belle said........These are fair and reasonable questions. Questions I hope that anyone still involved with or considering involvement with your group does ask and demand answers to.
..........As far as our sources indicate, there is no corporate soul-searching among the CES leaders as to how this happened or how to change so it doesn't happen again, no seeking outside help, no discussion of anything like Don't Worry's questions.
...........Further, there doesn't seem to be a corporate understanding among the Board/staff as to what even DID happen, but that a 'personnel change' was needed that was 'very sad for all involved'.
..........We doubt that anyone 'considering involvement with' CES would have any inkling of this forum or these or any other questions....because they would not have heard the slightest mention of a ministry 'problem'.
..........Those 'still involved with' CES who get their info from CES would also know nothing about anything.
.............Unless a CES follower here at the Cafe can tell us differently, we don't think CES has spoken or witten anything about the entire subject. We are told it's Full Steam Ahead at CES. Remember, it was the Cafe who entitled the thread...CES in Crisis. We're not sure CES leadership ever thought there was one.
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Tom Strange
Well folks... midnight has come and gone and I regret to inform you that DWBH was detained by 'external forces' at the Texas BBQ (something to do with hops & barley)...
...but Don't Worry... he'll be back later today with another award winning post! ...Be Happy!!!
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Belle
Thanks, Thankful. :)
Sounds like they are handling things exactly like TWI does. No surprise there. The leaders' conscience is seared.
It is sad that those involved with CES are not taking a greater interest in how things are run in "their" ministry, especially if all of this stuff happening has raised no red flags for them. And, doubly so if those people were involved with TWI at one time, but I suppose Sushi's signature line is apropos to the situation, "the lessons repeat until they are learned."
Regarding people just getting introduced to CES, I would hope that they would check things out on the internet, but you are correct, a lot of people don't. Heck, people still buy used cars these days without getting a CarFax report - which is beyond my comprehension. :blink:
But, there are plenty of people who do, and, hopefully, there will be those who check out CES before giving them any time or money.
CES operates the classic BITE model used by cults that Steve Hassan has written about.
Tom, give DWBH some hair of the dog that bit him.
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Belle
Hey, Thankful, please forgive my rudeness. I only just realized you're new to the Cafe.
First cup is always on the house! I'm glad you're here and I appreciate your posts. :)
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Ham
Ironically, at the moment, there is an ad at the bottom of the page for "natural colon cleansing."..
Maybe it's a message from gawd to the ces upper ups..
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