JEFF BLACKBURN/JOHN LYNN...IS THE CRISIS OVER?

[pawtucket]

I was chatting with one of the posters here on GS the other night about this and other threads where they are being held accountable. In MOST cases, posters are addressing the person and the position that they held. John L and Jeff B the individual believer aren't the issue here. The issue is John L and Jeff B (and others) the leaders at CES/STFI They are held to a higher standard, as they are leading other Christian brothers and sisters. And their leadership brought them to a very dangerous area -- the Occult.

They need to account for themselves. They haven't done that. John L sent a letter published here and NOT ONCE did he address the effect on the followers. He was busy talking about the other board members. That in and of itself speaks loudly. He is now on the road as spokesman for a group that is still broken as far as we know.

As Billy Joel sang, We didn't start the Fire.

[Larry N Moore]

I was chatting with one of the posters here on GS the other night about this and other threads where they are being held accountable. In MOST cases, posters are addressing the person and the position that they held. John L and Jeff B the individual believer aren't the issue here. The issue is John L and Jeff B (and others) the leaders at CES/STFI They are held to a higher standard, as they are leading other Christian brothers and sisters. And their leadership brought them to a very dangerous area -- the Occult.

They need to account for themselves. They haven't done that. John L sent a letter published here and NOT ONCE did he address the effect on the followers. He was busy talking about the other board members. That in and of itself speaks loudly. He is now on the road as spokesman for a group that is still broken as far as we know.

As Billy Joel sang, We didn't start the Fire.

Well, since you (and probably all other members here) aren't a member of CES I would say they owe you nothing. IOW -- they AREN'T accountable to any of you. Where you get the notion that they owe you an explanation from is pathetically unreasonable.

Oops! I'm challenging you -- will this post see the light of day? ;)

Socks, you'll have to wait for a full response to your post. Since my posts are being pre-screened I'm leery of taking too much time responding. But thanks. :)

Hopefully

this isn't completely off-topic:

Hi Dooj!

Oh and btw dooj:

They came here and feigned wanting to "tell the truth" in a drive-by

posting - then LEFT! Hirelings!

Where are their posts?

As those that claimed

to be leaders of God's people they accepted the role of a shepherd.

True, dooj. But you're NOT one of their sheep. :)

Edited October 21, 2007 by Larry N Moore

[pawtucket]

Well, since you (and probably all other members here) aren't a member of CES I would say they owe you nothing. IOW -- they AREN'T accountable to any of you. Where you get the notion that they owe you an explanation from is pathetically unreasonable.

John L, Jeff B and others in leadership at CES chose GS to air all of this and I agreed. Many CES followers check this regularly for updates and won't associate with them until they come clean

[Larry N Moore]

John L, Jeff B and others in leadership at CES chose GS to air all of this and I agreed. Many CES followers check this regularly for updates and won't associate with them until they come clean

That doesn't answer my question.

[Larry N Moore]

Correction to my last point -- no question asked. But what you failed to do is answer the point I made. So let me put it in the form of a question.

What makes you think Lynn or anyone from CES OWES you a response on this thread (or any other thread on GS)?

[Larry N Moore]

:) Do you think I'm badgering you Paw? I suppose if you think I am I wouldn't blame you for not responding to me. But think about it -- Isn't whatshisname badgering John Lynn? Would you find it unreasonable for him not to respond but then reasonable for you not to?

[Larry N Moore]

John L, Jeff B and others in leadership at CES chose GS to air all of this and I agreed. Many CES followers check this regularly for updates and won't associate with them until they come clean

What about this Paw?

"As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707. If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me."

Seems to me if anyone wants to engage John on this matter he's opened the door to do so. Why is that not enuf?

[Larry N Moore]

What's wrong Paw? Don't like it when someone badgers you for responses? :)

[Larry N Moore]

I suppose it's alright for DWBH to badger John for a response but, it's not alright for me to badger you.

Btw Paw -- How do you define hypocrisy?

[socks]

I agree Larry, that as a non-member, I have no stake in CES or it's affairs. "I" do nothing with them, get nothing.

For my limited interest I'd be happy to know that CES members were aware of what's going on and aware that these events are playing out. Why? Well, number one, they could pray for the situation and be available to help if needed. It's not a minor difference and it would be next to impossible for it to not effect other areas of the church. Churches aren't businesses first and foremost, they're communities of Christian people, each with responsibilities and needs. There's purpose behind the group. It isn't just publishing or operations. So if that's happened and some sort of plan is in place that would be good and right IMO.

If not they're not functioning at a very effective level cutting out the majority of their membership. Doing so doesn't strike the personal communication that's gone on, and the information that's been dispersed here. It just leaves everything open to speculation, misinformation and manipulation by everyone involved.

Other than that, the use of GS can be viewed as an entirely different audience for the most part. All of the non-CES posters here may not need to know on a daily basis what's going on in the hearts and minds of the principals or the affairs of CES. But GS should be communicated with on the level it was started. If it was used as a method to distribute information an expectation is in place about that information. What happened? What's the outcome? etc.

Not doing that is odd, to say the least. On the face it implies manipulation of information. Someone determined to get the info out when it suited them and their purposes, but not now.

It doesn't really matter if the status of the lawsuit prevents open discussion of the issues legally or as a concern to produce a reasonable outcome for the people involved. What's at issue in my mind is common sense and courtesy. This forum was left *snap* like that, with nary a "here's what's happening and I/we/they feel it's best to not post anymore information here in light of where it's gone. Here's what happend....( ) Thank you for your prayers, concern and interest. At some point in the future I/we/they will likely have more to say and when I/we/they do we'll keep you posted. Thanks again".

Nada, zip. O-nay on the Ost-pay. Dried up. Quiet. Silence. Gone. "Thanks it was nice I had a good time this summer but my girl's back from vacation now".

Edited October 21, 2007 by socks

[Larry N Moore]

I agree Larry, that as a non-member, I have no stake in CES or it's affairs. "I" do nothing with them, get nothing.

For my limited interest I'd be happy to know that CES members were aware of what's going on and aware that these events are playing out. Why? Well, number one, they could pray for the situation and be available to help if needed. It's not a minor difference and it would be next to impossible for it to not effect other areas of the church. Churches aren't businesses first and foremost, they're communities of Christian people, each with responsibilities and needs. There's purpose behind the group. It isn't just publishing or operations. So if that's happened and some sort of plan is in place that would be good and right IMO.

If not they're not functioning at a very effective level cutting out the majority of their membership. Doing so doesn't strike the personal communication that's gone on, and the information that's been dispersed here. It just leaves everything open to speculation, misinformation and manipulation by everyone involved.

Other than that, the use of GS can be viewed as an entirely different audience for the most part. All of the non-CES posters here may not need to know on a daily basis what's going on in the hearts and minds of the principals or the affairs of CES. But GS should be communicated with on the level it was started. If it was used as a method to distribute information an expectation is in place about that information. What happened? What's the outcome? etc.

Not doing that is odd, to say the least. On the face it implies manipulation of information. Someone determined to get the info out when it suited them and their purposes, but not now.

It doesn't really matter if the status of the lawsuit prevents open discussion of the issues legally or as a concern to produce a reasonable outcome for the people involved. What's at issue in my mind is common sense and courtesy. This forum was left *snap* like that, with nary a "here's what's happening and I/we/they feel it's best to not post anymore information here in light of where it's gone. Here's what happend....( ) Thank you for your prayers, concern and interest. At some point in the future I/we/they will likely have more to say and when I/we/they do we'll keep you posted. Thanks again".

Nada, zip. O-nay on the Ost-pay. Dried up. Quiet. Silence. Gone. "Thanks it was nice I had a good time this summer but my girl's back from vacation now".

Thanks socks for your response. Due to the fact that my posts are being pre-screened I'm hesitant to put much effort in a full response. I posted something which I feel is relevant to the discussion but I'm waiting for it to be posted. By the time you read this I might have been.

[Larry N Moore]

Hypocrisy: An expectation (considered reasonable) to hold others accountable for their behavior but criticizing others (like TWI and CES) to be unreasonable to hold their members accountable for their behavior.

[Larry N Moore]

Many CES followers check this regularly for updates and won't associate with them until they come clean

And you know this HOW? Have they been in touch with you? And just HOW MANY are many?

[Larry N Moore]

:) Paw, will my editing privileges be taken away next?

P.S. Test.

Larry...It's called common courtesy that they respond.

I see no reason why John should respond (curteously or otherwise) to the crap I see posted here. You'll have to come up with a better reason than that. DWBH's posts are so obviously insincere you could cut through the bullcrap with a butter knife.

P.S. As an afterthought -- Groucho, if you're right then PAW is being rude by not responding to me. :)

Edited October 21, 2007 by Larry N Moore

[doojable]

Hopefully

this isn't completely off-topic:

John 10:11-13 (King James Version) 11. I am the good shepherd: the

good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12. But he that is an

hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the

wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth

them, and scattereth the sheep. 13. The hireling fleeth, because he is

an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

Yes, these men are to be held to a higher standard. As those that claimed

to be leaders of God's people they accepted the role of a shepherd.

Seems to me they are acting more like hirelings. That's what happens

when you make the care and concern of people a business. If these

people aren't willing to really face their actions, to stand up for

God's people then what are they doing in their positions of "Gawdly

auth-ori-tay"?

They entered into dangerous doctrine, sucked the life out of folks with

that, then when it proved to no longer pay off like they wanted, they

ran. No facing the consequences of their actions, no accountability.

Hirelings!

They came here and feigned wanting to "tell the truth" in a drive-by

posting - then LEFT! Hirelings!

So while CES followers come here for information, all they really have

is an invitation to "call us." It seems to me that to make a public

outcry and then to dictate that questions and answers be made only in

private is a recipe for disaster. It leaves way too much room for even

more lies, rumors, and innuendo.

Edited October 21, 2007 by doojable

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Larry...It's called common courtesy that they respond.

Edited October 21, 2007 by GrouchoMarxJr

[DontWorryBeHappy]

HELLO AGAIN JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN..................I MAY BE A BIT EARLY TODAY, BUT I STILL DON'T SEE ANY POSTS FROM YOU GUYS YET............

The Code of Conduct is also specifically for those who want to be part of the leadership of a local Spirit & Truth Fellowship. Even for them we do not expect perfection, but we do require that they commit to living according to those standards, and to being held accountable to them. In our community of faith, we seek to be unified by a common commitment to godly behavior and corresponding accountability among us all.

We trust you will agree that the standards we have set forth in the Code of Conduct are no more than what God asks of us in His Word, for our personal and communal benefit. To live up to these standards, we will need to rely on the help of God and His Son, our Savior Jesus Christ, and the gift of holy spirit that gives us power to overcome the tyranny of sin.

I'M CERTAIN THAT GOD AND HIS SON, OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST ARE MORE THAN READY AND WILLING TO HELP YOU GUYS!............I BELIEVE YOU EACH ARE FILLED WITH THE GIFT OF HOLY SPIRIT TOO!...........ARE YOU WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT HELP?......HAVE YOU?......ARE YOU STILL WILLING TO LIVE UP TO YOUR SELF-PRESCRIBED "CODE OF CONDUCT"???..............I SUPPOSE TIME WILL TELL!.........THANKS FOR YOUR FAITHFULNESS TO YOUR CODE.....................PEACE!

[socks]

Larry, I don't know what's going on. The Board's owner is Pawtucket, and it's his biz to determine how it goes.

Totally off topic - not knowing what specifically caused the Screening process, I'll say from a completely uninformed position that I disagree with posts being Screened, meaning I wouldn't do that. Course I'm not privvy to specifics, and don't have to do the work of dealing with posts that have some kind of "questionable" content. While I certainly haven't agreed with some of your posts in the past Larry, they took no skin off my nose.

If there's something else going on, I don't know what it is. To me if there's a problem it gets corrected or that's that. You're off the board. That's after some negotiation and effort to come to an understanding but if there isn't any I'd figure fine, that's it. That would go for me or anyone.

So I dunno. GS is always going to attract heated discussion, it's always been that way. I don't see the need for it but I see how it happens, me included. But to me, what happens on the board is the board's business and that's where it stays. I learned this long ago, when I received some very gross emails from someone, shortly after I started having a presence on the 'Net. I dealt with that very directly and have determined since then to maintain, for my part, some level of decorum that would be generally acceptable and reasonable. If there's a problem, I'll recognize it. That way I know if anything comes down the pike to me that's out of order, someone's got a problem, and it's not me. I have no patience for threatening behavior or words and once that line's been crossed there's only one way back.

I hope this gets worked out. Seems like it could be.

[Tom Strange]

Correction to my last point -- no question asked. But what you failed to do is answer the point I made. So let me put it in the form of a question.

What makes you think Lynn or anyone from CES OWES you a response on this thread (or any other thread on GS)?

They have a "public trust" ... they don't necessarily need to post responses about all of this stuff on GSC... but they need to post it PUBLICLY somewhere...

...they betrayed the public trust... now they hide in the shadows hoping it will all blow over...

They don't want folks to know what's going on and would dearly like this to go quietly away...

IF they truly wanted it all fixed they'd let the chips fall where they may... so far it looks like they don't want to because they're not falling where they would like...

[DontWorryBeHappy]

HELLO THERE ONCE AGAIN JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN......................STLL NO REPLIES FROM EITHER OF YOU!.................WHAT'S UP???.............

I will love my neighbor as myself, considering the effect of my words and my actions on my neighbor’s well being. I will acknowledge that my “neighbor” is the one near me, at various times geographical, familial or preferential. I will avoid the human tendency to stereotype and be prejudiced toward others of different faiths, races, nationalities, genders, etc. and relate to individuals on the basis of their own words and deeds. I will follow God’s example, loving every individual and seeking to save them and bring them to a knowledge of the truth.

AM I NOT A "NEIGHBOR"?.......HAVE YOU GUYS CONSIDERED THE EFFECT OF THE MANY WORDS YOU POSTED HERE??...............DO YOU THINK YOUR ACTIONS HAVE HAD ANY EFFECT ON YOUR GREASESPOT NEIGHBORS??.................HAVE YOU SOMEHOW "STEREOTYPED" MY QUESTIONS TO YOU HERE ON YOUR FORUM, OR, WILL YOU "RELATE TO" ME BASED ON THE HONESTY AND POLITENESS OF MY SIMPLE QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS???..............I'M SURE IN FOLLOWING GOD'S EXAMPLE, YOU WILL FIND IT LOVING TO UPHOLD YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT, WON'T YOU???..............I HOPE SO..............STLL PATIENTLY WAITING ON YOU GUYS TO POST SOMETHING!........................THANKS!.........................................................PEACE!

[Larry N Moore]

They have a "public trust" ... they don't necessarily need to post responses about all of this stuff on GSC... but they need to post it PUBLICLY somewhere...

...they betrayed the public trust... now they hide in the shadows hoping it will all blow over...

They don't want folks to know what's going on and would dearly like this to go quietly away...

IF they truly wanted it all fixed they'd let the chips fall where they may... so far it looks like they don't want to because they're not falling where they would like...

Shoot! I can't remember if I already responded to this post. That happens when it takes hours (or a day) before your post are submitted for public consumption.

Did I respond to it already Paw?

[DontWorryBeHappy]

HI JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!...............................HOW ARE YOU GUYS THIS TUESDAY EVENING?...............CHECKING IN HERE AT YOUR FORUM ONCE

AGAIN, HOPING TO READ A POST FROM EITHER OR BOTH OF YOU.......................NOT TONIGHT, EH?.................................

I will recognize the authority of God and the Lord Jesus Christ and submit to all godly authority derived from them to the limits of my conscience as it is educated by the Word of God. I will renounce rebellion and self-will and seek to serve and not to rule or be a master over others. I will choose behaviors that will encourage godliness, peace and reconciliation. I will live in such a way that if everyone followed my example there would be peace and good will among men.

MANY HERE AT THE SPOT WOULD CONSIDER YOUR CHOICE TO POST A REPLY TO MY OPENING POST ON THIS THREAD A GODLY SERVICE TO US.........

IT WOULD CERTAINLY "ENCOURAGE GODLINESS, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION", DON'T YOU AGREE?.................IT WOULD ALSO CERTAINLY AFFORD YOU BOTH THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE AN "EXAMPLE" WHICH WOULD ENCOURAGE "PEACE AND GOOD WILL" AMONG US!..................................PEACE.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

GOOD EVENING JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN.........................ANOTHER DAY OF NO REPLIES?.................THAT'S DISAPPOINTING!..........................

I will not seek vengeance against those who wrong me, but will forgive them and seek reconciliation according to the principles of God’s Word. I will reject small-minded and petty attitudes that demand of others what I am unwilling to give. I will acknowledge the evils of misjudgment and recognize that what I detest in others lives in me as well. I will acknowledge that identifying the root of sin in my own life is a more compelling project than presuming to correct others without first correcting myself.

HAVE I "WRONGED" EITHER OF YOU BY ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS OF YOU IN POST #1?.................I DON'T THINK I HAVE, BUT IF YOU GUYS THINK SO, THEN I ASK YOUR FORGIVENESS................I ALSO ASK, AGAIN, HONESTLY AND POLITELY.............WOULD YOU PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO OFFER SOME RESPONSES TO MY QUESTIONS?.........................THANK YOU.................I CONTINUE TO AWAIT A REPLY.......................................PEACE.

[GarthP2000]

DWBH,

Your posts remind me of that Truth commercial of that guy who drives up to the cigarette corporations downtown office, gets out, and uses his megaphone to remind the corp's promise to shut down if it was ever proven that cigarettes cause cancer.

"Hello cigarette corporation. ... You said that you'd shut down if it was proven that cigarettes cause cancer. ..... H-e-l-l-o! ..... Well, its been proven that they cause cancer."

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Well...I see that John Lynn (although he can't be bothered to visit us here), has found time to make his grand appearance at the "waycorps forum"...according to what he said there, you would never know that there had been any problems with CES.

...it must be nice to be a "spiritual celebrity"