I don't think anyone here is watching the series. No responses to your post pro or con. I've been trying to watch it but I feel the same way you do about it. Its dull. Nothing we haven't seen or heard before. Same old clips we've all seen before. Yeah.. I'm disappointed because I enjoyed his series on the War Of Northern Aggression.
I am younger than both of you, and have a different point of view.
It is informing me about stuff I wasn't completely aware of, despite the fact that I'm a fan of history. In my case though, part of it comes from being the grandson of a WWII vet who never talked about his experiences, and finding his photographs after his death and really wanting to learn more. Those of us under 30 really don't know much about what happened. In fact, I would say to a 20 year old, WWII is as far away as the U.S. Civil War is to you. Vietnam is even considered ancient history by today's youth.
So from my standpoint, it is interesting. It could have been better, but I think that it will help those that have no personal link to WWII to gain some perspective on what happened.
I tried watching it in the 60's, a few times in the '70's. Nothing else was on... I didn't have cable. Every time I've stopped while channel surfing, to see what they are saying... I feel like I'm back in 1969.
It seems they are professionals at identifying a problem and in some cases, making up problems without offering a solution.
Burns says that he made the movie because he read a study that showed that there is an uncomfortably large percentage of college educated young adults who think that, in The Big One, the US and Germany were allied against Russia.
Thus, the same-o same-oness for those who know the history.
I think the thing is beautiful propaganda. The images are striking, the bombs are loud and our boys look really cool as they smash the axis while Wynton Marsalis' original 1940's jazz interpretations play in the background.
Re:"Burns says that he made the movie because he read a study that showed that there is an uncomfortably large percentage of college educated young adults who think that, in The Big One, the US and Germany were allied against Russia."
That's hard for me to believe. You got sources for that? Not that I'm calling you a liar but I *AM* doubting the data. I can tell you for sure that my two oldest children know who the Allies and who the Axis powers were. And you're saying that college educated adults think we were bosom buddies with Hitler? I gotta' tell 'ya dude.. I think you're really really wrong on this.
sudo (who has been wrong before on the intellect of the American people)
have you never seen those "jay walking" episodes on the talking picture box? have you not watched "are you smarter than a fifth grader" hosted by (our next president) Jeff Foxworthy? ...it doesn't surprise me attall...
He was talking about graduating high school seniors.
If the question was "Did we fight against Hitler and the Nazis?" the answers would have been different.
"OLBERMANN: I only read this the other day and I was amazed by it. I’m amazed at the story of what prompted you to do this series. It was provoked by a high school history survey you saw?
BURNS: Yes. First I heard that we’re losing 1,000 veterans a day in the United States, and then I learned too many of our graduating high school seniors think we fought with the Germans against the Russians in the Second World War and this sort of double hemorrhaging compelled us to sort of throw off an early conceit, born of the suffering we experienced in the “Civil War” series to not go to war again. But we had to when we heard that. "
Well, I've seen a few more snippets of it, but... I'm still not much impressed.
Saw Burns on "The Daily Show" this past week, pitching the show, so I guess it must not be getting the ratings they were hoping for.
The raison d'etre I heard Burn's make for this effort was that the veterans are all at the end of their lives now and are coming forth with the REAL story now, before they die. Maybe so.
But the revelations I hear in the program "I killed people and felt really bad about it", or "We didn't take any prisoners when we were out in the jungles of New Guinea" hardly come as big news. Hell, I remember my Dad and a friend of his talking about the war and getting drunk and driving by a P.O.W. camp in the middle of the night with a .50 caliber machine gun going full out, and that was 40 years ago. I'm pretty sure the news and views of WWII have been pretty well plumbed by this point in time.
Mostly I see similar footage to what's been on T.V. a gazillion times already and some old guys remembering that it was a really ugly time. Not sure that was enough reason to make the effort at this documentary.
I watched another episode, where they were talking about B-17 crews and what they went through. I knew my grandfather was on one, but I didn't realize what it was like. It was pretty amazing hearing the stories those guys told. My grandfather never said a word, I think partially because his family was German, and he was criticized after World War II for bombing "his own people." It would have been nice to know of his sacrifices and experiences, because while I've always admired my grandfather, I didn't know how truly heroic he was back then. Now that he's gone and I've learned so much about him, I'm amazed.
Additionally, the fact that high school graduates don't know that Russia was on our side was not surprising. In school it was never mentioned that Russia was on our side, but we did get a load of cold war propaganda. I think the first I learned about Russia being on our side was when "Patton" came on TV and my stepdad watched it when I was around. History pretty much ends after the U.S. Civil War, at least the way I was taught it in public school.
I guess I'm just a sentimental goof... my Dad flew in the Pacific theater in B-24s... I found it all interesting (but I am easily entertained at times)...
Maybe the reason it is (kind of) interesting to me is that when the local air museum had some WW2 vingage aircraft in for a show I went to see them. They had a B-24, a B-17 and varioud fighters... the bombers were mostly open and you could climb up inside them... they were freaking small! and just thinking about eight or ten guys climbing in there and flying for hours made my legs cramp! Kind of like when I saw a WW2 submarine up close and in person for the first time, those suckers were small, too.
but I liked it... yeah, it's been done before different ways and you can catch a lot of stuff on the history channels every week... but they got me to watch... I did kind of like the way he looked at it 'through the eyes' of four U.S. cities/towns and how it affected them...
oh well... different strokes... but I would suggest (if you have any interest in WW2) going to see the planes in person if they come by your area...
I guess I'm just a sentimental goof... my Dad flew in the Pacific theater in B-24s... I found it all interesting (but I am easily entertained at times)...
Maybe the reason it is (kind of) interesting to me is that when the local air museum had some WW2 vingage aircraft in for a show I went to see them. They had a B-24, a B-17 and varioud fighters... the bombers were mostly open and you could climb up inside them... they were freaking small! and just thinking about eight or ten guys climbing in there and flying for hours made my legs cramp! Kind of like when I saw a WW2 submarine up close and in person for the first time, those suckers were small, too.
but I liked it... yeah, it's been done before different ways and you can catch a lot of stuff on the history channels every week... but they got me to watch... I did kind of like the way he looked at it 'through the eyes' of four U.S. cities/towns and how it affected them...
oh well... different strokes... but I would suggest (if you have any interest in WW2) going to see the planes in person if they come by your area...
I know this is a tangent off of the topic (Burns' series on PBS)... but I just finished watching Flags of Our Fathers on HBO (in HD, btw)... I didn't find anything in this forum where anyone had seen or commented on that movie.
Being a veteran (Vietnam era, but FAR from any combat action), I enjoyed the movie... and am almost ashamed to say I've never seen Saving Private Ryan or some of the other recent war movies.
I thought Clint Eastwood did a real good job in 'Flags' to put the viewer on the beach with the Marines... anyone else see it?
I don't have HBO any longer so I guess I'll have to go out and rent Flags Of Our Fathers if you really liked it. I did see Saving Private Ryan, though. I'd recommend it but not as a 'must see' movie. By all accounts the D-Day invasion was the closest depiction of any movie made. I read that some veterans that saw the movie got physically ill at how realistic it was. Pretty gruesome.
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Sudo
Geo,
I don't think anyone here is watching the series. No responses to your post pro or con. I've been trying to watch it but I feel the same way you do about it. Its dull. Nothing we haven't seen or heard before. Same old clips we've all seen before. Yeah.. I'm disappointed because I enjoyed his series on the War Of Northern Aggression.
P.S. Episode 4 was somewhat better, IMO
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Mister P-Mosh
I am younger than both of you, and have a different point of view.
It is informing me about stuff I wasn't completely aware of, despite the fact that I'm a fan of history. In my case though, part of it comes from being the grandson of a WWII vet who never talked about his experiences, and finding his photographs after his death and really wanting to learn more. Those of us under 30 really don't know much about what happened. In fact, I would say to a 20 year old, WWII is as far away as the U.S. Civil War is to you. Vietnam is even considered ancient history by today's youth.
So from my standpoint, it is interesting. It could have been better, but I think that it will help those that have no personal link to WWII to gain some perspective on what happened.
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YID
PBS?
I tried watching it in the 60's, a few times in the '70's. Nothing else was on... I didn't have cable. Every time I've stopped while channel surfing, to see what they are saying... I feel like I'm back in 1969.
It seems they are professionals at identifying a problem and in some cases, making up problems without offering a solution.
Pinko Boring Shxt.
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lovematters
George,
Burns says that he made the movie because he read a study that showed that there is an uncomfortably large percentage of college educated young adults who think that, in The Big One, the US and Germany were allied against Russia.
Thus, the same-o same-oness for those who know the history.
I think the thing is beautiful propaganda. The images are striking, the bombs are loud and our boys look really cool as they smash the axis while Wynton Marsalis' original 1940's jazz interpretations play in the background.
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Sudo
LM,
Re:"Burns says that he made the movie because he read a study that showed that there is an uncomfortably large percentage of college educated young adults who think that, in The Big One, the US and Germany were allied against Russia."
That's hard for me to believe. You got sources for that? Not that I'm calling you a liar but I *AM* doubting the data. I can tell you for sure that my two oldest children know who the Allies and who the Axis powers were. And you're saying that college educated adults think we were bosom buddies with Hitler? I gotta' tell 'ya dude.. I think you're really really wrong on this.
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Tom Strange
my friend of the molar and bicuspid alike...
have you never seen those "jay walking" episodes on the talking picture box? have you not watched "are you smarter than a fifth grader" hosted by (our next president) Jeff Foxworthy? ...it doesn't surprise me attall...
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lovematters
Sudo,
My bad.
He was talking about graduating high school seniors.
If the question was "Did we fight against Hitler and the Nazis?" the answers would have been different.
"OLBERMANN: I only read this the other day and I was amazed by it. I’m amazed at the story of what prompted you to do this series. It was provoked by a high school history survey you saw?
BURNS: Yes. First I heard that we’re losing 1,000 veterans a day in the United States, and then I learned too many of our graduating high school seniors think we fought with the Germans against the Russians in the Second World War and this sort of double hemorrhaging compelled us to sort of throw off an early conceit, born of the suffering we experienced in the “Civil War” series to not go to war again. But we had to when we heard that. "
MSNBC - Countdown Transcript
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George Aar
Well, I've seen a few more snippets of it, but... I'm still not much impressed.
Saw Burns on "The Daily Show" this past week, pitching the show, so I guess it must not be getting the ratings they were hoping for.
The raison d'etre I heard Burn's make for this effort was that the veterans are all at the end of their lives now and are coming forth with the REAL story now, before they die. Maybe so.
But the revelations I hear in the program "I killed people and felt really bad about it", or "We didn't take any prisoners when we were out in the jungles of New Guinea" hardly come as big news. Hell, I remember my Dad and a friend of his talking about the war and getting drunk and driving by a P.O.W. camp in the middle of the night with a .50 caliber machine gun going full out, and that was 40 years ago. I'm pretty sure the news and views of WWII have been pretty well plumbed by this point in time.
Mostly I see similar footage to what's been on T.V. a gazillion times already and some old guys remembering that it was a really ugly time. Not sure that was enough reason to make the effort at this documentary.
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Mister P-Mosh
I watched another episode, where they were talking about B-17 crews and what they went through. I knew my grandfather was on one, but I didn't realize what it was like. It was pretty amazing hearing the stories those guys told. My grandfather never said a word, I think partially because his family was German, and he was criticized after World War II for bombing "his own people." It would have been nice to know of his sacrifices and experiences, because while I've always admired my grandfather, I didn't know how truly heroic he was back then. Now that he's gone and I've learned so much about him, I'm amazed.
Additionally, the fact that high school graduates don't know that Russia was on our side was not surprising. In school it was never mentioned that Russia was on our side, but we did get a load of cold war propaganda. I think the first I learned about Russia being on our side was when "Patton" came on TV and my stepdad watched it when I was around. History pretty much ends after the U.S. Civil War, at least the way I was taught it in public school.
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Tom Strange
I guess I'm just a sentimental goof... my Dad flew in the Pacific theater in B-24s... I found it all interesting (but I am easily entertained at times)...
Maybe the reason it is (kind of) interesting to me is that when the local air museum had some WW2 vingage aircraft in for a show I went to see them. They had a B-24, a B-17 and varioud fighters... the bombers were mostly open and you could climb up inside them... they were freaking small! and just thinking about eight or ten guys climbing in there and flying for hours made my legs cramp! Kind of like when I saw a WW2 submarine up close and in person for the first time, those suckers were small, too.
but I liked it... yeah, it's been done before different ways and you can catch a lot of stuff on the history channels every week... but they got me to watch... I did kind of like the way he looked at it 'through the eyes' of four U.S. cities/towns and how it affected them...
oh well... different strokes... but I would suggest (if you have any interest in WW2) going to see the planes in person if they come by your area...
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Rocky
I know this is a tangent off of the topic (Burns' series on PBS)... but I just finished watching Flags of Our Fathers on HBO (in HD, btw)... I didn't find anything in this forum where anyone had seen or commented on that movie.
Being a veteran (Vietnam era, but FAR from any combat action), I enjoyed the movie... and am almost ashamed to say I've never seen Saving Private Ryan or some of the other recent war movies.
I thought Clint Eastwood did a real good job in 'Flags' to put the viewer on the beach with the Marines... anyone else see it?
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Sudo
Rocky,
I don't have HBO any longer so I guess I'll have to go out and rent Flags Of Our Fathers if you really liked it. I did see Saving Private Ryan, though. I'd recommend it but not as a 'must see' movie. By all accounts the D-Day invasion was the closest depiction of any movie made. I read that some veterans that saw the movie got physically ill at how realistic it was. Pretty gruesome.
sudo
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