What amuses me about all this - especially these "Christian scholars" is
1) they are very ill-informed about the very belief systems that they condemn and ridicule
2) they are on a mission to discredit said beliefs
3) they think the only "good" outcome would be a conversion to whatever it is that they, the scholar, believes
4) they aren't really open to discussion - their way is the only correct way
5) they teach that you're gonna die, go to hel1 or worse if you don't believe what he's telling you
These are particular quotes that are part of the reason for my observances above. I include them so that Dan knows I did, indeed, take the time to read what he posted and am speaking from an informed position.
And many from Pagan and Wicca viewpoints would say it's actually the other way around.
Whereas, those they so disdain (Pagan/Jew/Wicca) tend to:
1) believe "to each his own", we're all on our own path and
2) blessings & light on you as you find your own way (no judgmentalism)
3) teaching the wisdom contributed by many wise men & women from many backgrounds, including Jesus and Christianity
4) teach peacefulness and doing no harm to anyone
5) teach freely sharing of your time, knowledge and resources - I, personally, think it just p1ss*s off "churches" because it doesn't go to one central location, like "Christian" religions require.
The above is easily found online. If you are genuinely interested and have the time to read up on how wrong this "Wright" guy is, I'll put more time into providing the information.
The last five points you made are very much what I started to see around the web and in life some years ago when I started searching other beliefs. Anyone can say anything they like, but some of us have found this statement:
Quote from the article: 'Only so can the dehumanizing and distorting power of paganism be broken, and replaced with the healing and restoring love of the creator and redeemer god.'
to be not at all what we found out in the real world, so much so that to me it sounds ridiculous and uninformed( and insulting).
I can't seem to access the article you want us to read. From the excerpts and commentary offered by other post-ers here, I get the idea that part of this new perspective on Paul has to do with the various ceremonies carried out by Pagans and Christians, and how they resemble or compare to each other.
I hope this isn't off the subject.
I'd just like to say that ceremonies are essential to deepening beliefs and firming up traditions, because they include most of our senses as avenues of assimilating the particular concept. The Christian communion ceremony certainly goes back to Passover roots. And the Passover likely goes back to some other ritual.
The problem with ceremonies is when they lose their original meaning and become robotics. Contemporary religions don't create ceremony; they just go on auto-pilot and repeat the motions and words - although some try to offer up an explanation, but usually miss the mark. Creating one's own ceremonies is an amazing way to feel God's presence or to heal in a spiritual way.
Paganism is loaded with ceremony, which is not a bad thing at all, and interestingly the Christians (whose own ceremonies are so crippled with disconnection to meaning) point to the Pagan "rituals" as proof of Satanic affiliation, devilish-ness, or idolatry.
Take ... candles for example. All through the so-called "new age" spiritualism, you will hear about Light, and Auras, and such. Even these words trigger labels of witchcraft among fundamentalist Christians. But think about all those candles the churches have kept in their service for centuries. Symbols are what makes ceremony, and the symbols which people understand are universal, so the ceremonies are bound to be similar.
Here's an example of what I'm saying which might ring a familiar bell:
The Pagans celebrate May Eve with a dance around the May pole. You've heard of this before, I'm sure. But do you know what follows the intertwining of the ribbons? Well, there is a bonfire lit, and folks dance around it joyfully until someone leaps over the flames. Then others follow, leaping the fire and calling out their particular wishes as they leap. I'm quoting from an old book here: "Jumping the flames is an act of purification and brings luck. Lovers can leap the bonfire together, to cleanse their relationship of petty disharmonies. Those who want to get rid of something - insecurity for example - can jump, calling out 'I leave my insecurity in the flames!' "
... And we thought Uncle Harry invented "Burn the Chaff Day".
My point is much like Bramble's: When it comes down to it, people are people. Religion and ceremony and relating to God are as basic as DNA, and personally I find that very encouraging.
OK. Well, I'm posting on a thread about an article that I can't read. Sorry if this is completely off-topic.
I've decided to suspend indefinitely my interest in this thread, thereby proving how perfectly Belle has my posting patterns down. Thanks again, y'all, for your contributions and comments.
Thanks to Belle, I've found Google and the Gilgamesh story which predates the Bible, and all kinds of trash about Wright. I now know how Wrong he is. And Cynic's information has given me a new view, possibly, into Christianity, and I think maybe I will become Reformed, if I don't go wiccan.
Initially, I was intrigued by Wright's premise that in his letter to the Corinthian church, Paul took the Jewish Shema (thou shalt put no other gods before me) and put Christ right in the center. I began to wonder if I was going to understand the NT in a whole new light, same as the old light. His comments regarding the Church and polytheism then and now seemed worth considering. But now I know it's BS, and, thanks to Belle, I also know the other side of the Moynihans.
I've decided to suspend indefinitely my interest in this thread, thereby proving how perfectly Belle has my posting patterns down. Thanks again, y'all, for your contributions and comments.
Thanks to Belle, I've found Google and the Gilgamesh story which predates the Bible, and all kinds of trash about Wright. I now know how Wrong he is. And Cynic's information has given me a new view, possibly, into Christianity, and I think maybe I will become Reformed, if I don't go wiccan.
Initially, I was intrigued by Wright's premise that in his letter to the Corinthian church, Paul took the Jewish Shema (thou shalt put no other gods before me) and put Christ right in the center. I began to wonder if I was going to understand the NT in a whole new light, same as the old light. His comments regarding the Church and polytheism then and now seemed worth considering. But now I know it's BS, and, thanks to Belle, I also know the other side of the Moynihans.
Well, I've just finished the Wright article and found it interesting. I appreciate Belle's presenting the other side of the debate, but I must admit, I tend to see pagans as the enemy camp as does Wright. We can agree on the fact that they are inclusive of many different doctrines, that some are quite generous, good citizens, etc. but I don't think that's the heart of the matter
The heart of the matter is what Paul wrote in I Corinthians 10:20.
But I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils
If this statement is truth, it doesn't matter how inclusive, how generous, or how nonjudmental pagan people or peoples are. The crucial question is; are they worshipping devils or aren't they? Paul does not say that they are knowingly worshipping devils. I think Belle and those who defend Wicca are inferring that Wright and those like him charge pagans with doing so. In fact, a review of the beginning of I Corinthians 8, the subject matter of the article implies the opposite.
Paul said "we know that we all have knowledge". The "we" spoken of does not include the pagans of Corinth. Those who have gnosis are the mature Christians. As mature Christians, we can see beyond the face of paganism and discern its true nature. Wiccans may be good people deceived by demons working through culture and religion with the knowledge that they can lure more converts with honey than vinegar.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, we should consider that Wright may be right about the nature of pagan worship without assuming that pagan worshippers are willfully evil.
I think it somewhat ironic that people who in large part agree that we were well intentioned followers of a group that was lead by deceptive and evil men rule out the possibility that the same thing may happen in other religions. Or, perhaps, because we were deceived by VP & company, we tend to view most Christian scholars--I should say genuine Christian scholars with undue skepticism. Imo, this is the real and most long-lasting damage we have suffered.
Having been deceived and abused by a man posing as a Bible-believing Christian scholar, we tend to view all such men with deep distrust. Perhaps I don't speak for most of you, but I am still wrestling with issues of cynicism and uncertainty regarding not only other theologians, but the Bible itself (especially the mixed messages of the Pauline epistles).
I know nothing of Wright or his other Wrightings (sorry), so I will take it with a grain of salt and consider the righteousness issue as well, (thanks Cynic for that information. I'll look into it.) But, as someone who has not read much theological writing partly because of the TWI influence, I appreciate these brief views of what real biblical scholars think about Paul and practical Christianity...or Christology.
You would think that if non Chrisrtans are mistakenly worshipping demons, then it would eventually show in the evil or misfortune or something in their lives( other than having different beliefs and practices from Christians).
Yet I know both Christians and pagans who are good people. And some of the most unwise people I've ever met quoted reams of scripture.
I for one, would rather be on the side of the inclusive and build bridges of understanding with others, than to view so many others as enemies and evil, to be feared, changed, stopped etc.
How that view of others as enemies can make the world a better place I can't see. Especially since they aren't harming you--it would be different if harm was coming to you and yours. But we are enimies without doing harm, just by being not Chrisitan. In that viewpoint, only if the unbelievers change or have no power can the true believers live in safety from them and their ideas. Therefore, it is right to enact laws etc against their practices, isn't it?
Funny, a co worker and I were talking just last week. At our place of work there are many overt Christians--their cubes are decorated in religious calendars, scritptures etc.( I work in a very large office full of cubes.)
While you might see fairies or unicorns in some cubes, the pagans at work kept a pretty low profile. I knew a couple from conversation and running into them in other places outside work. But this October all of a sudden, everyone started wearing pentacles or other pagan jewelry to work, not under their shirts, either. Four of us are on my very team. Not one squack has been raised about it.
We figured that somehow we knew that in our small cowboy town the tide had turned--we pagans didn't need to hide to protect jobs here anymore.
I for one am very thankful I live in a community where I can practice my beliefs in peace.
You would think that if non Chrisrtans are mistakenly worshipping demons, then it would eventually show in the evil or misfortune or something in their lives( other than having different beliefs and practices from Christians).
Yet I know both Christians and pagans who are good people. And some of the most unwise people I've ever met quoted reams of scripture.
I for one, would rather be on the side of the inclusive and build bridges of understanding with others, than to view so many others as enemies and evil, to be feared, changed, stopped etc.
How that view of others as enemies can make the world a better place I can't see. Especially since they aren't harming you--it would be different if harm was coming to you and yours. But we are enimies without doing harm, just by being not Chrisitan. In that viewpoint, only if the unbelievers change or have no power can the true believers live in safety from them and their ideas. Therefore, it is right to enact laws etc against their practices, isn't it?
Funny, a co worker and I were talking just last week. At our place of work there are many overt Christians--their cubes are decorated in religious calendars, scritptures etc.( I work in a very large office full of cubes.)
While you might see fairies or unicorns in some cubes, the pagans at work kept a pretty low profile. I knew a couple from conversation and running into them in other places outside work. But this October all of a sudden, everyone started wearing pentacles or other pagan jewelry to work, not under their shirts, either. Four of us are on my very team. Not one squack has been raised about it.
We figured that somehow we knew that in our small cowboy town the tide had turned--we pagans didn't need to hide to protect jobs here anymore.
I for one am very thankful I live in a community where I can practice my beliefs in peace.
Hi Bramble. Don't misunderstand me. Again, I haven't taken the position that pagan people are knowingly evil therefore I'm not saying all pagans are to be feared. But the underlying influence of paganism is something to be feared, a deceptive force that draws people away from Christ. The thing "to be feared" is not necessarily the pagan people, but the end of that lifestyle, which is separation from God and Christ because of having been deceived. The Christian evangelical's goal is to preach the gospel to every creature; to offer everyone has an opportunity to accept salvation and redemption. If we accept the worldview that we're all okay and none of us needs salvation, we fail in our mission and those around us will suffer the consequences eternally.
Hi Bramble. Don't misunderstand me. Again, I haven't taken the position that pagan people are knowingly evil therefore I'm not saying all pagans are to be feared. But the underlying influence of paganism is something to be feared, a deceptive force that draws people away from Christ. The thing "to be feared" is not necessarily the pagan people, but the end of that lifestyle, which is separation from God and Christ because of having been deceived. The Christian evangelical's goal is to preach the gospel to every creature; to offer everyone has an opportunity to accept salvation and redemption. If we accept the worldview that we're all okay and none of us needs salvation, we fail in our mission and those around us will suffer the consequences eternally.
Peace
JerryB
Too bad evangelical Christianity can't find a way to have joy in their faith without the demonization of the beliefs of others. Your God seems to care more about who and how one worships than how one lives. As long as you're on the right team in the spiritual competition...
Sad that strife with others seems to be built into your doctrine.
Excuse me for butting in but isn't this the same as saying pagans are evil -- just that they don't know it?
No it's not. Being evil and being deceived by evil forces are two different things. A good person who is deceived by and evil entity is still a good person unless and until exposure to that entity corrupts the person.
Too bad evangelical Christianity can't find a way to have joy in their faith without the demonization of the beliefs of others. Your God seems to care more about who and how one worships than how one lives. As long as you're on the right team in the spiritual competition...
Sad that strife with others seems to be built into your doctrine.
Bramble, I understand that youre feelings are hurt because you perceive me as calling you evil, but that's an unsubstantiated charge.
I can find plenty of joy in my faith just from having fellowship with Christ. But if I have joy in Christ, I would be selfish to try to keep it to myself. So I want others to know and have the same joy and peace I have. Therefore, I am motivated to share the gospel.
But I came to know that joy by also realizing that there are two sides to the spiritual dimension; good and evil. This line of thinking may not work for you, but here's how I approached the Devil issue back when I first got involved with the ministry. It may be nonsensical to you, but it worked for me.
On a purely logical level, it makes no sense to believe and accept that there is an invisible, intangible being who is the ultimate source of good and who is vitally interested in influencing people but to reject the belief that there is also an invisible, intangible being who is the ultimate source of evil and who is vitally interested in influencing people. In other words, having come to believe that God exists and has a will and an agenda for man, and having come to this conclusion largely without concrete evidence, it is illogical for me to reject the belief that the Devil exists and has a will and agenda for man, just because I haven't seen him and don't want him to exist.
Anyway, that's how I came to grips with the idea of believing in both God and Satan. Since then, I have had experiences that support both beliefs, but that's a topic for another thread.
No it's not. Being evil and being deceived by evil forces are two different things. A good person who is deceived by and evil entity is still a good person unless and until exposure to that entity corrupts the person.
Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure that's what you meant.
To paraphrase you, I would say that not all Christians are knowingly evil. A Statement to make a point, I do not personally attribute evil to an entire religion. But I've certainly seen enough of the Bible quoting evil ones to know that evil can wear a Christian face, speak in tongues, witness, teach the Bible. So even when they say they worship the True Almighty God of Love, it isn't necessarily so. You look at the person, how they act, how they treat poeple...
I think the non-like-me's-are-worshipping-devils-and-the-evil-will-sooner-or-later-show-up view of other is destructive to families, communities, nations. We did practice a form of that in TWI, so I have seen it in practical application. It did keep us tight with our little group though, because we were afraid of the evil on the outside. Fear motivation not Love.
I think there is enough sorrow to address in the world to keep anyone busy for a life time, without ever having to speculate about the 'evil unbelievers'; that true joy does not need a 'smear campaign' type of viewpoint toward others to be obvious...if it is really there.
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Bramble
The last five points you made are very much what I started to see around the web and in life some years ago when I started searching other beliefs. Anyone can say anything they like, but some of us have found this statement:
Quote from the article: 'Only so can the dehumanizing and distorting power of paganism be broken, and replaced with the healing and restoring love of the creator and redeemer god.'
to be not at all what we found out in the real world, so much so that to me it sounds ridiculous and uninformed( and insulting).
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Shifra
Dan,
I can't seem to access the article you want us to read. From the excerpts and commentary offered by other post-ers here, I get the idea that part of this new perspective on Paul has to do with the various ceremonies carried out by Pagans and Christians, and how they resemble or compare to each other.
I hope this isn't off the subject.
I'd just like to say that ceremonies are essential to deepening beliefs and firming up traditions, because they include most of our senses as avenues of assimilating the particular concept. The Christian communion ceremony certainly goes back to Passover roots. And the Passover likely goes back to some other ritual.
The problem with ceremonies is when they lose their original meaning and become robotics. Contemporary religions don't create ceremony; they just go on auto-pilot and repeat the motions and words - although some try to offer up an explanation, but usually miss the mark. Creating one's own ceremonies is an amazing way to feel God's presence or to heal in a spiritual way.
Paganism is loaded with ceremony, which is not a bad thing at all, and interestingly the Christians (whose own ceremonies are so crippled with disconnection to meaning) point to the Pagan "rituals" as proof of Satanic affiliation, devilish-ness, or idolatry.
Take ... candles for example. All through the so-called "new age" spiritualism, you will hear about Light, and Auras, and such. Even these words trigger labels of witchcraft among fundamentalist Christians. But think about all those candles the churches have kept in their service for centuries. Symbols are what makes ceremony, and the symbols which people understand are universal, so the ceremonies are bound to be similar.
Here's an example of what I'm saying which might ring a familiar bell:
The Pagans celebrate May Eve with a dance around the May pole. You've heard of this before, I'm sure. But do you know what follows the intertwining of the ribbons? Well, there is a bonfire lit, and folks dance around it joyfully until someone leaps over the flames. Then others follow, leaping the fire and calling out their particular wishes as they leap. I'm quoting from an old book here: "Jumping the flames is an act of purification and brings luck. Lovers can leap the bonfire together, to cleanse their relationship of petty disharmonies. Those who want to get rid of something - insecurity for example - can jump, calling out 'I leave my insecurity in the flames!' "
... And we thought Uncle Harry invented "Burn the Chaff Day".
My point is much like Bramble's: When it comes down to it, people are people. Religion and ceremony and relating to God are as basic as DNA, and personally I find that very encouraging.
OK. Well, I'm posting on a thread about an article that I can't read. Sorry if this is completely off-topic.
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Belle
Shifra, I have emailed the text to you.
I think this might be more than Dan expected and he may not be able to find much more time to devote to this topic.
I think that most of Christianity fails to recognize where most of their "traditions" and "rituals" come from.
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anotherDan
I've decided to suspend indefinitely my interest in this thread, thereby proving how perfectly Belle has my posting patterns down. Thanks again, y'all, for your contributions and comments.
Thanks to Belle, I've found Google and the Gilgamesh story which predates the Bible, and all kinds of trash about Wright. I now know how Wrong he is. And Cynic's information has given me a new view, possibly, into Christianity, and I think maybe I will become Reformed, if I don't go wiccan.
Initially, I was intrigued by Wright's premise that in his letter to the Corinthian church, Paul took the Jewish Shema (thou shalt put no other gods before me) and put Christ right in the center. I began to wonder if I was going to understand the NT in a whole new light, same as the old light. His comments regarding the Church and polytheism then and now seemed worth considering. But now I know it's BS, and, thanks to Belle, I also know the other side of the Moynihans.
You nailed it, Belle!
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wrdsandwrks
Huh?
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anotherDan
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showuser=2964 Huh?
Wrds, if you'll give me some time, I will respond to your comments... You are amazing.
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wrdsandwrks
Thanks Dan, you're amazing too. Take all the time you need.
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Jbarrax
Well, I've just finished the Wright article and found it interesting. I appreciate Belle's presenting the other side of the debate, but I must admit, I tend to see pagans as the enemy camp as does Wright. We can agree on the fact that they are inclusive of many different doctrines, that some are quite generous, good citizens, etc. but I don't think that's the heart of the matter
The heart of the matter is what Paul wrote in I Corinthians 10:20.
But I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils
If this statement is truth, it doesn't matter how inclusive, how generous, or how nonjudmental pagan people or peoples are. The crucial question is; are they worshipping devils or aren't they? Paul does not say that they are knowingly worshipping devils. I think Belle and those who defend Wicca are inferring that Wright and those like him charge pagans with doing so. In fact, a review of the beginning of I Corinthians 8, the subject matter of the article implies the opposite.
Paul said "we know that we all have knowledge". The "we" spoken of does not include the pagans of Corinth. Those who have gnosis are the mature Christians. As mature Christians, we can see beyond the face of paganism and discern its true nature. Wiccans may be good people deceived by demons working through culture and religion with the knowledge that they can lure more converts with honey than vinegar.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, we should consider that Wright may be right about the nature of pagan worship without assuming that pagan worshippers are willfully evil.
I think it somewhat ironic that people who in large part agree that we were well intentioned followers of a group that was lead by deceptive and evil men rule out the possibility that the same thing may happen in other religions. Or, perhaps, because we were deceived by VP & company, we tend to view most Christian scholars--I should say genuine Christian scholars with undue skepticism. Imo, this is the real and most long-lasting damage we have suffered.
Having been deceived and abused by a man posing as a Bible-believing Christian scholar, we tend to view all such men with deep distrust. Perhaps I don't speak for most of you, but I am still wrestling with issues of cynicism and uncertainty regarding not only other theologians, but the Bible itself (especially the mixed messages of the Pauline epistles).
I know nothing of Wright or his other Wrightings (sorry), so I will take it with a grain of salt and consider the righteousness issue as well, (thanks Cynic for that information. I'll look into it.) But, as someone who has not read much theological writing partly because of the TWI influence, I appreciate these brief views of what real biblical scholars think about Paul and practical Christianity...or Christology.
Thanks Dan.
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Bramble
You would think that if non Chrisrtans are mistakenly worshipping demons, then it would eventually show in the evil or misfortune or something in their lives( other than having different beliefs and practices from Christians).
Yet I know both Christians and pagans who are good people. And some of the most unwise people I've ever met quoted reams of scripture.
I for one, would rather be on the side of the inclusive and build bridges of understanding with others, than to view so many others as enemies and evil, to be feared, changed, stopped etc.
How that view of others as enemies can make the world a better place I can't see. Especially since they aren't harming you--it would be different if harm was coming to you and yours. But we are enimies without doing harm, just by being not Chrisitan. In that viewpoint, only if the unbelievers change or have no power can the true believers live in safety from them and their ideas. Therefore, it is right to enact laws etc against their practices, isn't it?
Funny, a co worker and I were talking just last week. At our place of work there are many overt Christians--their cubes are decorated in religious calendars, scritptures etc.( I work in a very large office full of cubes.)
While you might see fairies or unicorns in some cubes, the pagans at work kept a pretty low profile. I knew a couple from conversation and running into them in other places outside work. But this October all of a sudden, everyone started wearing pentacles or other pagan jewelry to work, not under their shirts, either. Four of us are on my very team. Not one squack has been raised about it.
We figured that somehow we knew that in our small cowboy town the tide had turned--we pagans didn't need to hide to protect jobs here anymore.
I for one am very thankful I live in a community where I can practice my beliefs in peace.
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Jbarrax
Hi Bramble. Don't misunderstand me. Again, I haven't taken the position that pagan people are knowingly evil therefore I'm not saying all pagans are to be feared. But the underlying influence of paganism is something to be feared, a deceptive force that draws people away from Christ. The thing "to be feared" is not necessarily the pagan people, but the end of that lifestyle, which is separation from God and Christ because of having been deceived. The Christian evangelical's goal is to preach the gospel to every creature; to offer everyone has an opportunity to accept salvation and redemption. If we accept the worldview that we're all okay and none of us needs salvation, we fail in our mission and those around us will suffer the consequences eternally.
Peace
JerryB
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Bramble
Too bad evangelical Christianity can't find a way to have joy in their faith without the demonization of the beliefs of others. Your God seems to care more about who and how one worships than how one lives. As long as you're on the right team in the spiritual competition...
Sad that strife with others seems to be built into your doctrine.
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Larry N Moore
Excuse me for butting in but isn't this the same as saying pagans are evil -- just that they don't know it?
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Jbarrax
No it's not. Being evil and being deceived by evil forces are two different things. A good person who is deceived by and evil entity is still a good person unless and until exposure to that entity corrupts the person.
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Jbarrax
Bramble, I understand that youre feelings are hurt because you perceive me as calling you evil, but that's an unsubstantiated charge.
I can find plenty of joy in my faith just from having fellowship with Christ. But if I have joy in Christ, I would be selfish to try to keep it to myself. So I want others to know and have the same joy and peace I have. Therefore, I am motivated to share the gospel.
But I came to know that joy by also realizing that there are two sides to the spiritual dimension; good and evil. This line of thinking may not work for you, but here's how I approached the Devil issue back when I first got involved with the ministry. It may be nonsensical to you, but it worked for me.
On a purely logical level, it makes no sense to believe and accept that there is an invisible, intangible being who is the ultimate source of good and who is vitally interested in influencing people but to reject the belief that there is also an invisible, intangible being who is the ultimate source of evil and who is vitally interested in influencing people. In other words, having come to believe that God exists and has a will and an agenda for man, and having come to this conclusion largely without concrete evidence, it is illogical for me to reject the belief that the Devil exists and has a will and agenda for man, just because I haven't seen him and don't want him to exist.
Anyway, that's how I came to grips with the idea of believing in both God and Satan. Since then, I have had experiences that support both beliefs, but that's a topic for another thread.
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Larry N Moore
Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure that's what you meant.
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Bramble
My feelings aren't all that hurt, JBarrax.
To paraphrase you, I would say that not all Christians are knowingly evil. A Statement to make a point, I do not personally attribute evil to an entire religion. But I've certainly seen enough of the Bible quoting evil ones to know that evil can wear a Christian face, speak in tongues, witness, teach the Bible. So even when they say they worship the True Almighty God of Love, it isn't necessarily so. You look at the person, how they act, how they treat poeple...
I think the non-like-me's-are-worshipping-devils-and-the-evil-will-sooner-or-later-show-up view of other is destructive to families, communities, nations. We did practice a form of that in TWI, so I have seen it in practical application. It did keep us tight with our little group though, because we were afraid of the evil on the outside. Fear motivation not Love.
I think there is enough sorrow to address in the world to keep anyone busy for a life time, without ever having to speculate about the 'evil unbelievers'; that true joy does not need a 'smear campaign' type of viewpoint toward others to be obvious...if it is really there.
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