LCM info I thought everyone might be interested in

[Ham]

Hmm. I remember how he trashed John Lennon at a spayshull..

interesting how all the descriptions he hung on Lennon fit loy equally as well.

[Dot Matrix]

This was really really funny:

...I wonder if he still has his Athletes of the spirit costume? I could see him frolicking down the street in it, casting out demons...until somebody threw a net over him and hauled him away.

[Jim]

I heard that as well Belle where else would a Big "Stud" work biglaugh.gif I guess he really is making more harmony in the home now, helping to complete all those hunny do fix up projects

LOL, almost a coffee spew...

So when I go in and ask for a roll of 12/2 Romex and a box of CAT5, he'll be the one with the blank stare?

I hope he's working in the paint department.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Hi All!.............Jim.............he'll be easy to "spot"............he'll be the one in the bright orange, spandex jumpsuit............but, they've changed the name from paint dept. to "the Whitewash Dept.".....and you'll be able to buy the stuff with or without the accompanying debbil spurts.......but, remember....cash only!....no credit/debit......................

[J0nny Ling0]

Craig's daughter has actually done pretty well for herself. She is a flautist, and teaches music (flute) to many students. Her last name is now "Fear" (how ironic), and she has a website with her name on it. I'll try to look it up and post it. Oh yeah, here it is:

http://www.leahfear.com/bio.html

This was in response to someone saying something about the "teenaged daughter and college". And, someone posted this e-mail address a few months back when talking about "The Martindale Kids". This website says that she currently lives in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. And man, her photo looks so much like Donna! Pretty girl she is, and I hope she is happy...

Edited September 16, 2007 by Jonny Lingo

[WhiteDove]

[quote name='Jim'

LOL, almost a coffee spew...

So when I go in and ask for a roll of 12/2 Romex and a box of CAT5, he'll be the one with the blank stare?

I hope he's working in the paint department.

Most likely Jim, he could ask the Way Builders for help though....... OOPS nevermind , I forgot he fired most of them too.

[Out There]

You know. I don't like him and for what he did and the damage he caused he'll have to answer to God for that.

But to post about spitting on him or to keep stating the fact that he has fallen doesn't really play well to the fact of your intelligence. I say he has made his bed and he has to lie in it. I'm not going to keep wasting my time talking about him and what I think his life is like now.

[now I see]

That's fine for you, you've already forgiven him, but some people here have spent years of their lives in torment over what was done to them by that looser, some even have lost their lives due to him specifically....remember Tom, who used to man the switchboard at Hq's, who killed himself over Craig helping himself to Tom's wife...maybe some here are justified to be a little ticked off.

You can't legislate someone else's forgiveness, it is up to them to do it if and when they're ready, the fact that lcm still doesn't care and still feels he did nothing wrong, which is also substanciated by other posters here, leaves it in our hands to also make judgments about him.

[Out There]

I really don't care about lcm but I do care about the people here whom he did screw over. I think that the sooner someone can finish ( terrible word doesn't really work but it's the best one I have) mourning their time in TWI and are able to move on the better.

I grieved the loss of Tom Mitchell, But eventually we all have to get on with our lives,

Yes are are justified to be ticked off, I don't deny you that. Gut do try to get some resolution into your heart.

[Sunesis]

Well thank you for the advice that we all need to move on, get over it and get resolution in our hearts.

But don't stop there, anything else you'd like to advise us all on?

[now I see]

I just read a thread called “Forgiveness” that’s currently at the top of this forum, and the poster, Don’tWorryBe, has stated some very salient and applicable thoughts that really fit right into to what we are talking about here.

I ‘m quoting his posts below because he/she says it so well, his thoughts about forgiveness and getting over it are so appropriate to what we are discussing here……

He says:

In an effort to NOT derail the balaam and twi thread, which, btw is an "easily entreated" scripture lesson finely crafted by WordWolf (thanks WW)...........i opted to start this new thread on FORGIVENESS...........A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, i had the opportunity to "publicly expound" the scriptures on this topic.......since that time, it has become an issue of great practical import not only for me, but also for many folks here forced to deal with the myriad questions this topic has brought to the fore......i am going to posit some of my own thoughts and hope to evoke those of others who navigate through this cafe..........i am hoping for considered, respectful dialogue.............i have no desire to cast aspersions, nor do i wish to encourage rambling, closeminded "epistles" from those who seem to be on a crusade of apologetics for the egregious misdeeds of VP, LCM, CG, HA, DEW, ROSIE, DONNA, TWI and nit's 'OFFSHOOTS'.(phew!....does that cover everybody??)...........i honestly just want to know your thoughts and feelings concerning the understanding and application of forgivness.........

Having been placed in the unfortunate position of the "man who knew too much" regarding the egregious misdeeds of the aforementioned "leaders", many posters here have been faced with arguments put forward by those who insist that it is our responsibility "before god" to forgive these men and women. who have, IMO, so profoundly wronged so many innocents in the "household of faith".........we have been accused of being "too angry", too bitter", "too spiteful", etc.,...thus preventing ourselves from being able to faithfully execute the admonitions of God and His Sonto 'FORGIVE' those "leaders" for their multitude of errors and sins..........i find such accusations to be misguided and viscerally self-serving for those who coldly and blindly hurl them our way...........rather than simply reading the scriptures (such as those presented by WW) or listening to the facts from scores of people who supply honest, gut-wrenching, self-revealing firsthand accounts...(not "hearsay").......these "protectors" reflexively insist upon redirecting the scriptures and misappropriating the facts right back at the victims in an effort to continue the whitewashing cover-up of the horrors perpetrated by their personal heroes............by attacking the victims they try to ignore the obvious and proveableguilt of whichever one of their "idols" they're tying to protect.......they so no responsibility on the part of their "idols" to repent of their sins, apologize, confess,or even ask for forgiveness.......instead, the responsibility for action is flipped right back on the victims who are now responsible to forgive the offenders without so much as even a hint of sorrow or contition from gulty!.........

My question t them is this: "how can i grant forgiveness to someone who vehemently denies he/she committed any offense?".from what i can see, god has no problem forgiving anyone for anything if that person chooses to repent.....this process of repentance seems to precede god's granting of forgiveness.........as a matter of fact, it seems to me that forgiveness is predicated upon repentance..........meaning that without an acto of the will and mind admitting to an offense, and then repenting of said offense, foregiveness CANNOT be granted!......now as far as man's vertical relationship with god goes, repentance and forgiveness seems to be a "2-way street".........i.e., man repents...god forgives.........am i then right in assuming that in man's dealings with his fellow man, forgiveness is also a "2-wat street"???if i wrong someone or sin against him/her, how can that person forgive me if i never APOLOGIZE?.....if i deny any wrongdoing, i will refuse to apologize don't i?.....if i refuse to accept responsibility for my actions, i will never feel the need for forgiveness, since, in my mind, i never did anything wrong!......why do i nedd to apologize and ask for forgiveness if i never did anything wrong???....................

I read a post on another thread where someone menioned that a friend of their's went to visit martindale at his current abode in toledo, oh.and reported back that the former 2nd prez of twi still does'nt think he did anything wrong!......obviously!......he's never apologized to anyone he's wronged because he's convincerd that he has'nt done anything wrong!....even though he must have confessed to something in order for the allens to have won their case against him via out-of-court settlement........he still does'nt think he did anything wrong??!!!........is this how the sexual predators in the roman catholic church have been dealt with recently??......have any been convicted and gone to jail?.........have any gone to tial and lost?.......did the wronged individuals and congregations simply forgive them all in absentia and let them go on their merry, molesting way?...............

With all the abundance oif "rightly divided present truth"...(sic!).....twi claims to possess, they can't even manage to come up to the level of the roman catholic church when it comes to such matters?.......(which church by the way, they have ridiculed and criticized for years....run by "seed boyz" after all!)........if martindale et al never did anything wrong why avoid a trial by jury?...........who were they sparing in their cowardly out-of-court settlement?......the "ministry" or themselves?........any of you victims ever receive an apology from any of them for sexually molesting you?........any of those great "leaders" ask you to forgive them?.....i have no doubt that most, if not all of those who were victimized by them , would forgive them if they apologized and asked for forgiveness......but have any of these great spiritual "leaders" ever apologized or asked for forgiveness?..................if i raped your wife, never repented, never apologized, never asked for forgiveness and then told you she was a "possessed loser" to boot.would you forgive me oldiesman???......what if it was your daughter?....

To quote dr. martin luther king jr., "the arc of the universe isd long but it bends toward justice" and, "justice too long delayed is justice denied"...........IS GOD A GOD OF JUSTICE??... i think so!.....would the father of justice demand from his kids their blind acceptance of injustice at the hands of their brothers or sisters?......i think not!...........

I believe in the god of justice.......i also believe that "what goes around comes around"..............i believe in forgiveness too............but the same way my heavenly father does...........throough the act of genuine repentance................soooo.................VP, LCM, CG, HA.\, DEW, ROSIE, DONNA, TWI and all you "OFFSHOOTS".......YOU OWE GOD AN APOLOGY.........YOU OWE US AN APOLOGY................THEN WE'LL FORGIVE YOU ALL...............peace be unto you

And his second post on that thread:

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read and reply to this thread. the heart displayed by you regarding your forgiveness of those mentioned in my list of "leaders" is a true testament to your individual desires to be "imitators of god as dear children" by doing the things christ did. i respect and admire you and wish i could summjon up the desire to br as forgiving toward those "leaders" as most of you have been. those of you who are christians are indeed a credit to your heavenly father and your lord jesus christ!..............and i sncerely mean that!..........

Oakspear.........i was referring not just to myself as "the man who knew too much" but to the "many posters here" who found themselves in that position. however, you are correct in your inference that i was in a "leadership position" in twi prior to leaving in "86. i have , by the grace of god, not been in the position of "needing forgiveness" from a great many people i worked with in twi because i can honestly say before you , god and jesus christ that i never participated in any sexual misconduuct of any kind during my time in twi......nor did i steal or otherwise misappropriate any abs or other minstry funds, i was'nt a drunk...nor did i willfully or intentionally hurt, abuse or "seek vengeance" upon any believer i worked with during those years. there have been occasions through the years when believers whom i have hurt or offended confronted me and if indeed i hurt or wronged them i unhesitatingly apologized and ask for their forgiveness. i felt then and still believe today that this was a part of my responsibilty before god as a "leader"........if i have offended or wronged you please .........let's talk...............

To make a long story shorter (can't really say this will be "short"....hehehe).........my first 10 years in twi were fun, exciting, and, other than what seemed at times like more than my "fair share" of "facemeltings" from vp while in the corps,...i really enjoyed a lot of great experiences. my spouse was never molested, although she was once "groped" by vp but turned around and nearly smacked him one..........that was it......we never found ourselves "included" in any of the "secret esociety" sex games or any other wierd stuff......but things began to change for us in 1980 and grew far worse beginning with the "anniversary year" of '81-82....culminating in the mantle thing of october '82.......'82-86 were really awful as we seemed to be spending more and more time counselling people who were confiding in us about truly horrific things that were perpetrated against them at the hands of "leadership".....we were naive enough to think that the "power of the word" was enough with which to confront these "leaders" and reform the wrong doctrines and practices that seemed to be spreading like an out-of-control wildfire!.........boy were we ever wrong!!.....it finally got to the tipping point of where we resigned from our positions and left "the ministy" forever in "86.....we were never fired.....we considered our resignation a "protest" against the injustices we were receiving more and more firsthand information about......i felt it was my responsibilty to fight against these injustices on behalf of the hundreds of "little people" that i knew firsthand had been betrayed by their "ministry" and it's leadersl......

that lasted about 2 years until i decided it was no longer "profitable" to continue fighting the viscious lies and personal atacks levelled against me by twi and it's "leaders".......so, i went back to school.....real, accreditted school....and took on the profession in which i work to this day.......i truly love what i do and find it wonderfu;lly fulfilling and rewarding......i lived a happily twi-free life until 1999, when i was contacted by paul a. and encouraged to become a "poster" at waydale.....i also became involved with his and fern's legal battle with twi until they won their settlement.........waydale stopped and i hung around the greaespot until martindale was forced to resign.........i felt my contribution was done so i just faded out of the picture enjoying life and my job........i remain a fiercely independent, unchurched christian who has decided not to be a part of any christian or religious organization of any kind............

My current presence here at the gsc is due to an interesting confluence of events in several twi "offshoots".......a few months back, a former "leader"of one of the "offshoots" contacted me out -of-the-blue telling me of some of the recent events that had occurred in that group, asking me to "check out" gsc to catch up on all the facts which had been posted here and then give my thoughts regarding it all.........i finally got around to doing that about a month ago and spent a whole heckuva lot of time reading a lot of threads in various forums........as i read, i really started getting "bugged" reading the posts by people who had shared their stories back during the waydale days and were still being challenged by some of the vp "protectors" i referred to in my previous post.......then i read posts from people who had left in the mid "90's, and after 2000 and some even very recently and found that the horror stories were not only continuing but in some cases were even worse!.........i started seeing the same injustices still being repeated and in fact worsening into the so called "present truth"!........

my father was a union organizer in the 1930's in the southern us and mexico until enlisting in the army in december, 1941.....after serving in the european theater through 1945 he was stationed in the american sector of occupied germany and participated in the postpwar denazification as an intelligence officer in the oss from "46-'48......it was during this time that he met my mother whose family were holocaust survivors of dachau, imprisoned not because they were jews, (they were'nt)....but because my maternal grandfather had been a "social democrat"...(socialist)..political leader before the war and was a political prisoner at dachau......so, i admit to having a "quixotic idealism" against injustice programmed into me by folks which may indeed be a characer flaw..........

i'm not as good at the forgiveness part of christianity as many of you are here.........i do not feel i need to forgive the "leaders" i mentioned in my previous post in order to accomplish something good for myself.......although i certainly understand and appreciate what bliss, washington weather, ex10, ww, cman and others have posted here....and as i said before i truly do respect you for being able to do what you needed to do to move on with life.........i honestly have not thought much at all about twi or it's "offshoots" during the last 7 years, until i started reading here at the spot..........my recent reading adventures reminded me that all those "leaders" i menioned above still have never publicly apologized to any one!.......they continue taking money from people they're lying to.....duping them into the same old "myths and legends" ....... the horror stories i've read about the stuff that's transpired from '89 to the present are just as bad as the ones i knew about up through '88 when i "checked out" of it all..........imo.............they still owe god and thousands of god's children an apology!.......and, as of right now, i still don't forgive any of them............forget 'em?.......easy!..........forgive 'em?...........not until they apologize!............

if i have offended anyone here........i apologize........i ask your forgiveness............i wish you all peace...........................and,.....btw.............don't worry.........i'm happy!...............

Hmmm, you know I’ve never heard of anyone telling the Jews, my parent’s generation, and the world, to forgive Hitler.  

[now I see]

Ooops!  Double post!!!!!

Edited September 19, 2007 by but now I see

[Tom Strange]

Oooops! Godwin's Law!

[doojable]

I just read a thread called “Forgiveness” that’s currently at the top of this forum, and the poster, Don’tWorryBe, has stated some very salient and applicable thoughts that really fit right into to what we are talking about here.

.....

Hmmm, you know I’ve never heard of anyone telling the Jews, my parent’s generation, and the world, to forgive Hitler.

Corrie Ten Boom did it for a German soldier...

Tramp for Jesus

the link leads to a site where you can hear her speak.

Edited September 19, 2007 by doojable