Is there any evidence outside of TWI propaganda that it could have been today? I mean, there's not a historical agreement on whether actually Jesus existed or not, making it impossible to tell for sure what day he was born if he did exist, but I'm wondering if there are any points of evidence that would lead to a 9/11 birthday that aren't just TWI nonsense. Didn't VPW rip off the idea from someone else?
Is there any evidence outside of TWI propaganda that it could have been today? I mean, there's not a historical agreement on whether actually Jesus existed or not, making it impossible to tell for sure what day he was born if he did exist, but I'm wondering if there are any points of evidence that would lead to a 9/11 birthday that aren't just TWI nonsense. Didn't VPW rip off the idea from someone else?
Respectfully Mister P-Mosh,
I can understand your questions and I do not presume to know all of their answers!
I am a Christan; and I believe that Christ Jesus was born somewhere around 3 BC; in accordance with the Holy Bible, as my primary source (I use the KJV). From it's historical and time-line viewpoint throughout, I believe that September 11th, 3BC is more accurate than a December birth would be!
I am study the Word (The Holy Bible) of GOD now, primarily! Whether today is His birthday or not matters far less to me than that He was given to be a Savior to mankind by personal choice!
Accuracy, is critically important but at least this date is somewhat more accurate than December 25th, 3BC...if in fact that was even the exact year! Man can have His opinion...this is Man's Day! I chose to be a nondenominational Christian! I want God and Christ Jesus and I believe that I need them as well!
This Thread is to, in any case, honor Christ Jesus'es Birth whenever it is!
Respectfully, and with Love, (((((((((((Mister-P-Mosh)))))))))))))))), RainbowsGirl
I celebrate both days, as the major significance lies in the event and the honoring of it; Celebrating in Love and Spirit is more than a mere tradition! It is what You live and Your heart that makes all the real differences in this world...and perhaps, the next (IMHOP: Heaven)!
Back then it was about the stars and triple conjunctions and all that. It seemed pretty compelling at the time. But it seems others going by star dates have come up with other dates.
The star record is searchable, so a significant heavenly event around that time would be a good date to use. The good magi of the time apparently followed the stars ...
Garth, I think the pagans that worship by shopping and decorating phallic symbols can keep the date in December ... Santa's reindeer tend to poop all over the nativity scenes anyway ...
Back then it was about the stars and triple conjunctions and all that. It seemed pretty compelling at the time. But it seems others going by star dates have come up with other dates.
The star record is searchable, so a significant heavenly event around that time would be a good date to use. The good magi of the time apparently followed the stars ...
Garth, I think the pagans that worship by shopping and decorating phallic symbols can keep the date in December ... Santa's reindeer tend to poop all over the nativity scenes anyway ...
Thank You (((((((((((Rhino))))))))))),
Please Rhino, do share more if you can and have the time to do so, concerning the other dates and their basis es! I would like to learn more!
I think September is the best guess among those who do believe in Jesus some think the 11th some think the 29th which just happens to be the Doves birthday. Some are more inclined to think the 29th because it is also the Catholic feast day of St. Michael the Archangel and the linking of Jesus and Michael among some groups. (see Below link)
The one thing that I could never figure out with all the stars, and planets in conjunction and all that crap, was a very simple, pracitcal sort of thing.
How the hell could one tell if a star was hovering over a particular house? I mean, unless said star was incredibly small and at an impossible and devastatingly low altitude? This point always baffled me, and caused me no end of torment, trying to make mythology line up with real life.
Say, when's Hercules' birthday, anyway? I haven't sent him a card in an awful long time...
I think September is the best guess among those who do believe in Jesus some think the 11th some think the 29th which just happens to be the Doves birthday. Some are more inclined to think the 29th because it is also the Catholic feast day of St. Michael the Archangel and the linking of Jesus and Michael among some groups. (see Below link)
Thank You for your contribution and the links! I am looking forward to wishing You a very Happy Birthday on September 29th...it might be nice to share that birthday withCJ. in a way; if you are humble and don't need much limelight (I am kidding you....Your heart is easily seen) !
The one thing that I could never figure out with all the stars, and planets in conjunction and all that crap, was a very simple, pracitcal sort of thing.
How the hell could one tell if a star was hovering over a particular house? I mean, unless said star was incredibly small and at an impossible and devastatingly low altitude? This point always baffled me, and caused me no end of torment, trying to make mythology line up with real life.
Say, when's Hercules' birthday, anyway? I haven't sent him a card in an awful long time...
Dear ((((((((((((((George Aar)))))))))))),
That is a very interesting question that you pose...and a very puzzling one. Perhaps an astronomer could provide an answer to that??? Hercules' birthday??? Try Googling it, if you are concerned about missing it!
Thank You for your contribution and the links! I am looking forward to wishing You a very Happy Birthday on September 29th...it might be nice to share that birthday withCJ. in a way; if you are humble and don't need much limelight (I am kidding you....Your heart is easily seen) !
I Love You WhiteDove, RainbowsGirl
Actually I was named after Michael because I was born on his feast day. I guess it saved money on baby name books anyway, just look at the Catholic calendar for a name. Perhaps it was a good choice after all , Michael is considered to be the defender of the faith, perhaps that is where I get my propensity to defend truth from.
That would mean that we'd start seeing Christmas shopping ads as far back as late June!! :ph34r:
That would not be much different than it is now. The only real difference might be that Australians get to celebrate Christmas in a time other than Summer.
The one thing that I could never figure out with all the stars, and planets in conjunction and all that crap, was a very simple, pracitcal sort of thing.
How the hell could one tell if a star was hovering over a particular house? I mean, unless said star was incredibly small and at an impossible and devastatingly low altitude? This point always baffled me, and caused me no end of torment, trying to make mythology line up with real life.
Simple logic says that it can't. Have you ever tried to point at something far away to get someone else to look at it, and since they aren't looking through your eyes, they can't see it specifically? A similar situation would happen with stars. Light spreads out over space, so it's not like a star can shine like a spotlight on one specific house. In fact, the distance is so huge that the light could be shining on an entirely different solar system.
Say, when's Hercules' birthday, anyway? I haven't sent him a card in an awful long time...
One thing I found interesting was that TWI never really went into the whole "Saturnalia" thing. I think it would shock a lot of people to learn about the born of a virgin half-god Mithras that Christmas actually represents. The Christmas holiday, the stories, and much of what we believe about Jesus is pretty much directly lifted from the Mithras myth. If I were a Christian, I'd want to learn about that myth and then go back and read about Jesus directly from the bible in order to filter out the perceptions our culture has picked up from the ancient Roman and pagan religions.
Thanks RainbowsGirl. I was curious because much of what we were taught in TWI did turn out to be nonsense, and this was hailed as one of the more "scientific" of TWI's research.
Still, it looks like you agree that there isn't a firm date for today, just that it was probably around this time period and that the actual date is not super-important to you.
Thanks,
MPM
Respectfully Mister P-Mosh,
I can understand your questions and I do not presume to know all of their answers!
I am a Christan; and I believe that Christ Jesus was born somewhere around 3 BC; in accordance with the Holy Bible, as my primary source (I use the KJV). From it's historical and time-line viewpoint throughout, I believe that September 11th, 3BC is more accurate than a December birth would be!
I am study the Word (The Holy Bible) of GOD now, primarily! Whether today is His birthday or not matters far less to me than that He was given to be a Savior to mankind by personal choice!
Accuracy, is critically important but at least this date is somewhat more accurate than December 25th, 3BC...if in fact that was even the exact year! Man can have His opinion...this is Man's Day! I chose to be a nondenominational Christian! I want God and Christ Jesus and I believe that I need them as well!
This Thread is to, in any case, honor Christ Jesus'es Birth whenever it is!
Respectfully, and with Love, (((((((((((Mister-P-Mosh)))))))))))))))), RainbowsGirl
P.S. If I got it wrong -- sorry. Just ask Doojable how easily I can get someone's birthday wrong. (Just don't ask her about biscuits and gravy -- they're already spoken for).
Simple logic says that it can't. Have you ever tried to point at something far away to get someone else to look at it, and since they aren't looking through your eyes, they can't see it specifically? A similar situation would happen with stars. Light spreads out over space, so it's not like a star can shine like a spotlight on one specific house. In fact, the distance is so huge that the light could be shining on an entirely different solar system.
One thing I found interesting was that TWI never really went into the whole "Saturnalia" thing. I think it would shock a lot of people to learn about the born of a virgin half-god Mithras that Christmas actually represents. The Christmas holiday, the stories, and much of what we believe about Jesus is pretty much directly lifted from the Mithras myth. If I were a Christian, I'd want to learn about that myth and then go back and read about Jesus directly from the bible in order to filter out the perceptions our culture has picked up from the ancient Roman and pagan religions.
P.S. If I got it wrong -- sorry. Just ask Doojable how easily I can get someone's birthday wrong. (Just don't ask her about biscuits and gravy -- they're already spoken for).
Dear (((((((((((((Larry N Moore)))))))))))))))))))),
Being totally precise in everything is not always as much of an issue as understanding it's actual significance. Some things are only partially known to mankind.
Perhaps, the merchants have developed a true concern for the the proper date as well; as highly unlikely as that may seem !
I Love You Nottawayfer, RainbowsGirl
I'm sure they would welcome any excuse to move Christmas decorations and especially Christmas shopping to before Halloween. It seems like Christmas marketing in the stores gets pushed back a bit earlier every year anyway.
I'm sure they would welcome any excuse to move Christmas decorations and especially Christmas shopping to before Halloween. It seems like Christmas marketing in the stores gets pushed back a bit earlier every year anyway.
((((((((((Dear Wrdsandwrks)))))))))))))))),
That would really seem strange indeed! Traditions are not bad things essentially ...Tts 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled!
I love to see the holiday lights and decorations. The mood of giving out of love and simply generosity is beautiful to behold! It doesn't have to be at all about money and obligation; I still believe that the best gifts are priceless or free!
I sure hope that you can come back and put the HTML options - on rawline break mode so we can hear these! It's under "Post Options" under the reply box.
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Mister P-Mosh
Is there any evidence outside of TWI propaganda that it could have been today? I mean, there's not a historical agreement on whether actually Jesus existed or not, making it impossible to tell for sure what day he was born if he did exist, but I'm wondering if there are any points of evidence that would lead to a 9/11 birthday that aren't just TWI nonsense. Didn't VPW rip off the idea from someone else?
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RainbowsGirl
Respectfully Mister P-Mosh,
I can understand your questions and I do not presume to know all of their answers!
I am a Christan; and I believe that Christ Jesus was born somewhere around 3 BC; in accordance with the Holy Bible, as my primary source (I use the KJV). From it's historical and time-line viewpoint throughout, I believe that September 11th, 3BC is more accurate than a December birth would be!
I am study the Word (The Holy Bible) of GOD now, primarily! Whether today is His birthday or not matters far less to me than that He was given to be a Savior to mankind by personal choice!
Accuracy, is critically important but at least this date is somewhat more accurate than December 25th, 3BC...if in fact that was even the exact year! Man can have His opinion...this is Man's Day! I chose to be a nondenominational Christian! I want God and Christ Jesus and I believe that I need them as well!
This Thread is to, in any case, honor Christ Jesus'es Birth whenever it is!
Respectfully, and with Love, (((((((((((Mister-P-Mosh)))))))))))))))), RainbowsGirl
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GarthP2000
So does that mean that we have to shift all the Christmas stuff/celebrations/TV specials/Christmas muzack
back 3 1/2 months?
That would mean that we'd start seeing Christmas shopping ads as far back as late June!! :ph34r:
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RainbowsGirl
Dear (((((((((((GarthP2000)))))))))))))))))))), :)
I celebrate both days, as the major significance lies in the event and the honoring of it; Celebrating in Love and Spirit is more than a mere tradition! It is what You live and Your heart that makes all the real differences in this world...and perhaps, the next (IMHOP: Heaven)!
I Love you Garth, RainbowsGirl!
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rhino
Back then it was about the stars and triple conjunctions and all that. It seemed pretty compelling at the time. But it seems others going by star dates have come up with other dates.
The star record is searchable, so a significant heavenly event around that time would be a good date to use. The good magi of the time apparently followed the stars ...
Garth, I think the pagans that worship by shopping and decorating phallic symbols can keep the date in December ... Santa's reindeer tend to poop all over the nativity scenes anyway ...
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RainbowsGirl
Thank You (((((((((((Rhino))))))))))),
Please Rhino, do share more if you can and have the time to do so, concerning the other dates and their basis es! I would like to learn more!
I Love You Rhino, RainbowsGirl
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WhiteDove
I think September is the best guess among those who do believe in Jesus some think the 11th some think the 29th which just happens to be the Doves birthday. Some are more inclined to think the 29th because it is also the Catholic feast day of St. Michael the Archangel and the linking of Jesus and Michael among some groups. (see Below link)
Sept 11th
29th
29th
Jesus & Michael
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George Aar
The one thing that I could never figure out with all the stars, and planets in conjunction and all that crap, was a very simple, pracitcal sort of thing.
How the hell could one tell if a star was hovering over a particular house? I mean, unless said star was incredibly small and at an impossible and devastatingly low altitude? This point always baffled me, and caused me no end of torment, trying to make mythology line up with real life.
Say, when's Hercules' birthday, anyway? I haven't sent him a card in an awful long time...
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RainbowsGirl
Dear (((((((((((((((((WhiteDove)))))))))))))))))),
Thank You for your contribution and the links! I am looking forward to wishing You a very Happy Birthday on September 29th...it might be nice to share that birthday withCJ. in a way; if you are humble and don't need much limelight (I am kidding you....Your heart is easily seen)
!
I Love You WhiteDove, RainbowsGirl
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Nottawayfer
I did see Christmas decorations in Wal-Mart this week. <_<
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RainbowsGirl
Dear ((((((((((((((George Aar)))))))))))),
That is a very interesting question that you pose...and a very puzzling one. Perhaps an astronomer could provide an answer to that??? Hercules' birthday??? Try Googling it, if you are concerned about missing it!
I Love You George, RainbowsGirl
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WhiteDove
Dear (((((((((((((((((WhiteDove)))))))))))))))))),
Thank You for your contribution and the links! I am looking forward to wishing You a very Happy Birthday on September 29th...it might be nice to share that birthday withCJ. in a way; if you are humble and don't need much limelight (I am kidding you....Your heart is easily seen)
!
I Love You WhiteDove, RainbowsGirl
Actually I was named after Michael because I was born on his feast day. I guess it saved money on baby name books anyway, just look at the Catholic calendar for a name.
Perhaps it was a good choice after all , Michael is considered to be the defender of the faith, perhaps that is where I get my propensity to defend truth from.
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RainbowsGirl
Dear (((((((((((((((((Nottawayfer))))))))))))
Perhaps, the merchants have developed a true concern for the the proper date as well; as highly unlikely as that may seem
!
I Love You Nottawayfer, RainbowsGirl
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Mister P-Mosh
That would not be much different than it is now. The only real difference might be that Australians get to celebrate Christmas in a time other than Summer.
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Mister P-Mosh
Simple logic says that it can't. Have you ever tried to point at something far away to get someone else to look at it, and since they aren't looking through your eyes, they can't see it specifically? A similar situation would happen with stars. Light spreads out over space, so it's not like a star can shine like a spotlight on one specific house. In fact, the distance is so huge that the light could be shining on an entirely different solar system.
One thing I found interesting was that TWI never really went into the whole "Saturnalia" thing. I think it would shock a lot of people to learn about the born of a virgin half-god Mithras that Christmas actually represents. The Christmas holiday, the stories, and much of what we believe about Jesus is pretty much directly lifted from the Mithras myth. If I were a Christian, I'd want to learn about that myth and then go back and read about Jesus directly from the bible in order to filter out the perceptions our culture has picked up from the ancient Roman and pagan religions.
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Mister P-Mosh
Thanks RainbowsGirl. I was curious because much of what we were taught in TWI did turn out to be nonsense, and this was hailed as one of the more "scientific" of TWI's research.
Still, it looks like you agree that there isn't a firm date for today, just that it was probably around this time period and that the actual date is not super-important to you.
Thanks,
MPM
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Larry N Moore
Happy Birthday Jesus!
P.S. If I got it wrong -- sorry. Just ask Doojable how easily I can get someone's birthday wrong. (Just don't ask her about biscuits and gravy -- they're already spoken for).
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RainbowsGirl
Thank you Mister-P-Mosh,
I am grateful for the information and resources!
RainbowsGirl
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RainbowsGirl
Dear (((((((((((((Larry N Moore)))))))))))))))))))),
Being totally precise in everything is not always as much of an issue as understanding it's actual significance. Some things are only partially known to mankind.
Learning to share is hard hey?
I Love You Larry N Moore, RainbowsGirl
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wrdsandwrks
I'm sure they would welcome any excuse to move Christmas decorations and especially Christmas shopping to before Halloween. It seems like Christmas marketing in the stores gets pushed back a bit earlier every year anyway.
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RainbowsGirl
((((((((((Dear Wrdsandwrks)))))))))))))))),
That would really seem strange indeed! Traditions are not bad things essentially ...Tts 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled!
I love to see the holiday lights and decorations. The mood of giving out of love and simply generosity is beautiful to behold! It doesn't have to be at all about money and obligation; I still believe that the best gifts are priceless or free!
I Love You Wrdsandwrks, RainbowsGirl
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Galen
Happy Birthday!
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bliss
Yes, Happy Birthday Jesus! If it's today or another day, no matter. He deserves all days to celebrate HIM.
Thanks Rainbows Girl. :)
Now, I give you the best Christian band (IMO) to celebrate: Third Day
uhhhhh.............hold on
<embed src="http://godtube.com/flvplayer.swf" FlashVars="flvPath=http://godtube.com/flvideo1/24/19394.flv&flvTitle=Brought to you by: GODTUBE.COM" wmode="transparent" quality="high" width="330" height="270" name="flv_demo" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" /></embed>
<embed src="http://godtube.com/flvplayer.swf" FlashVars="flvPath=http://godtube.com/flvideo1/23/18596.flv&flvTitle=Brought to you by: GODTUBE.COM" wmode="transparent" quality="high" width="330" height="270" name="flv_demo" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" /></embed>
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RainbowsGirl
Dear ((((((((Bliss)))))))))))),
I sure hope that you can come back and put the HTML options - on rawline break mode so we can hear these! It's under "Post Options" under the reply box.
I Love You Bliss, RainbowsGirl
Dear ((((((((((Galen)))))))))
I Love you Galen, RainbowsGirl
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