Well, like I said before, I don't actually have the hallowed "green card".
I have this green hand-out thing that says a lot of the same things.
On the back, it says if you are interested in taking the class, you should send $65.00 to Newt Knockwurst and they will send you the registration form.( Maybe that's the "green card".)
Hmmm.
Here's something of interest,
"This class is designed to give each student a maximum of information in a minimum of time."
( I guess that's why it is best if you take it 10 or 15 times. <_<)
"The material presented covers all of the basic keys contained in the Word of God that will enable the students to manifest a life which is more than abundant."
(Boy now that's a relief. I was afraid I might have to take a whole bunch more classes or go live in a commune or something.)
All I can say is, I prefer the Lou Rawls icon O_man. I think it was in one of the Green Card benefits - "will make you sing line one bad mutha".
May he rest in peace. Lou baby was The Man. The Voice. "Tobacco Road" - fuggedit. "Lady Love". He was off the chart.
We want Lou back!!!
Green Card benefits. Okay, some semblance of Thread sanity. It was a registration card, and sales device.
I did realize most of those benefits, over the years. To say otherwise would be a lie. I feel strongly that PFAL itself did for me, in it's day, a great deal of good.
But going back to the first "class" I took and the next couple years, the Green Card claims weren't anything of consequence. I didn't come into PFAL looking for promises on a card to be delivered. I wanted to learn about the bible, and I did.
Over the years I came and went on the card claims. They seemed limiting in a way. But the process was to register, and the card was the registration card.
I now use a "Blue Card" for Socks SignUps. I find blue does much better at communicating the kind of cool cha-cha that the Socks Class for Big Living will bring to those who attend and apply the knowledge. But that's just me.
But going back to the first "class" I took and the next couple years, the Green Card claims weren't anything of consequence. I didn't come into PFAL looking for promises on a card to be delivered. I wanted to learn about the bible, and I did.
Thank you, Socks. And it was my take throughout my early years, starting in '73, that salesmanship was just something we were doing to bring a "product" we believed in to the world. I wanted then what I want now--an understanding of my role, responsibility, and proper relationship to God, and other people. I wanted the Truth. I wanted to love authentically, and to be loved. By the time I was 20, I didn't really have high expectations that I'd ever enter into that kind of wholeness. From day one, I knew the class had problems, but there was enough there to get me excited about the possibilities, at least. I chafed at some parts of the class, and I was put off by our class instructor handling my questions after the class so glibly and flippantly. (One of my questions was, "Has the ministry looked into the authenticity and relevancy of the Dead Sea Scrolls?" His answer was, "yes" and he moved on to my next question. He handled all the questions rather poorly.)
Within four months, I shipped out to Arkansas for my first WOW year. And I simply got too busy to really study the Word myself. I really thought for many years that that was what it was all about, but it became increasingly apparent that there was a platform to uphold. I believed in likemindedness, but by the 80's, what once was "make the Word your own" became "make PFAL your own." I agree with Socks (and of course, Oldiesman) that there was a lot there to hang on to.
IF ONLY we would have been true to a "charter" of honesty with the Scriptures, letting them speak for themselves, we might have grown. We talked about it, but we, like so many denominations, got stuck in a doctrinal vise, and I guess we felt we had to defend it. The Way, Inc. is now toast, but I have met lots of people who have gone "beyond what they were taught" and have become truly active members of Christ's living church in a way that was simply not possible in "the old days" EXCEPT within the "household" of the Way, and with whomever we could get to join up.
What kind of "benefits" would I use to "sell" the Gospel to someone today?
Opens the unique wonders of God's Word
Reveals God's "purpose of the ages."
Teaches how to live in harmony with God's purposes for our lives
That's all I would have needed.
Grouchy, sorry I started that tangent with Lou Rawls. I had no idea Larry would post the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven, honest!
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude. Yep.
makes life meaningfull Yep.
Overcomes worry and fear Yep, taught me the keys to do so.
Promotes prosperity and health Yep. Doesn't guarantee it though.
Explains apparent bible contradictions Yep. It explained some but not all. But then again the class wasn't meant to teach on all the scriptures from Genesis 1:1 through Revelations 22:21
Developes more harmony in the home I wasn't married at that time but I've applied the principles from it when I did and yep.
Whole Lotta Love was written by Willy Dixon(like so many other blues/rock classics) and popularized by Muddy Waters in the early 1960s. Originally it was called You Need Love". As with a lot of early bands from the UK, most of Zep's material was reworked and vamped up "blues" that they "borrowed".
I saw an interview with Robert Plant. The interviewer was saying how great they were, etc..
Plant replied with something like "we were a bunch of young punks who stole the blues.."
even more funny.. the band didn't think "Stairway to Heaven" would amount to much..
No real negatives in life really shook me up before da class. I'd already looked death in the eye and kept at least part of my marbles..
makes life meaningfull
My life today is even more meaningful, without being under the auspices of pfal, twi et al..
Overcomes worry and fear
A friend demonstrated this. He would pass cars through a blind corner, claiming he didn't have to fear because he was doing it by revelation..
Promotes prosperity and health
works pretty well when a person is young..
Explains apparent bible contradictions
I really didn't care. Hadn't studied the contradictions da "teacher" was referring to to begin with..
Developes more harmony in the home
I had no home at the time. Don't know how something can give more harmony to something one does not have to begin with..
Enables you to seperate truth from error
if it means to define twi dogma as "truth", and everything else as "error", yeah, it fit the bill..
Disciplines the mind by believing
if it means to convince oneself that one is in New York harbor, when one is actually somewhere on the delta in New Orleans, regardless of all evidence otherwise, yep, it could be true..
Teaches how to pray effectively.
Changed in later cards to "Teaches how to pray EFFECTUALLY" i.e. how to GET the DESIRED results. Nope.. there is only one prayer I've prayed in over forty years that would even begin to be close to this kind of claim. Maybe I'll share it sometime.. I think I have on one post a long time ago.
Familia, waysider! Whoa!!! Now we're looking at the wayback machine! But a committment's a committment. No familia was planned and none will be provided, although if brought, it will be allowed, if shared on the Plurality Plate.
Scribble! It's the new Word game!
Larry, glad you liked it. To add, I think that while reliance on Gracious living is essential, there's a side of all of life's benefits that require effort. Basically, we gotta do the work. Or at least look busy. Things drop in our laps, go our way, flow towards us and away from us and all I can do is be thankful.
But if I sit around and wait with high expectations, that isn't being fully engaged in life, I think. Life isn't a point and shoot kind of thing. There's some setup, tear down. Shipping and receving. Work. Good ol' fashioned effort. Adjustments being made, fine tuning.
Like harmony in the home. After 36 years of marriage, I'd say that takes some effort. You have to put your back into it, figuratively speaking. I can't point to a class as the cause of the result. But there was some information that helped, I can say that.
I think that while reliance on Gracious living is essential, there's a side of all of life's benefits that require effort. Basically, we gotta do the work. Or at least look busy. Things drop in our laps, go our way, flow towards us and away from us and all I can do is be thankful.
But if I sit around and wait with high expectations, that isn't being fully engaged in life, I think. Life isn't a point and shoot kind of thing. There's some setup, tear down. Shipping and receving. Work. Good ol' fashioned effort. Adjustments being made, fine tuning.
Like harmony in the home. After 36 years of marriage, I'd say that takes some effort. You have to put your back into it, figuratively speaking. I can't point to a class as the cause of the result. But there was some information that helped, I can say that.
Excellent points socks! Excellent indeed.
Your post brought to mind how many in today's society have fallen victims of the instant gratification syndrome. We want it NOW! And if they (the victims) don't get it now they simply give up and conclude that it's not available.
If you want instant gratification, don't go to college..
buy a lottery ticket. Of course, not very many will be instantly gratified..
Quite right, Mr. Squirrel. I wonder though -- How many college students would continue their education if they hit the lottery jackpot. I also wonder how many college students working towards a certain degree -- like in education -- give up on finding a job in that field and go to work for Walmart. ;)
Nope.. there is only one prayer I've prayed in over forty years that would even begin to be close to this kind of claim. Maybe I'll share it sometime.. I think I have on one post a long time ago.
Now listen squirrel, I'm interested. If you decide not to post it, I would be honored if you would PM it to me.
Just for grins, I categorized the "benefits" into three groups – loosely based around the way I think they function in our belief system. Establishing a viewpointhas the biggest impact – to which I've devoted the most comments.
Establishing a viewpoint
This is about absorbing PFAL – or the demise of critical thinking.
Enables you to separate truth from error
This works out to be vpw asserting the superiority of his interpretation of the Bible over anyone else's. Of course it doesn't come across as his interpretation. By ignoring the context of II Peter 1 on the origin of Scripture, he argues the Bible is of no private interpretation – so it must interpret itself.
By his inept use of interpretive keys, twisted logic and plagiarism forges a patchwork theology – his standard of truth. And with the assumption that this is how the Word interprets, itself students tend to think PFAL is the God-breathed textbook for the Bible. After PFAL 77 was filmed many assumed it would replace the original class. But I remember upper leadership saying "Paul didn't have to re-write Ephesians."
What is sad, is the fact that PFAL grads have a hard time separating vpw's interpretation of the Bible from the Bible itself. Grads wear PFAL-colored glasses – a filter that only allows the wearer to see Scripture vpw's way. Maybe it should say "Enables you to separate things that differ from PFAL." Quality of thinking is only as good as the intellectual standards in place. PFAL students were expected to accept vpw's intellectual standards – which were very poor – and he liked to keep it that way - after all, "you can't go beyond what you're taught."
Explains apparent Bible contradictions
I think PFAL made a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe vpw's piece de resistance was the four crucified – which of course he plagiarized like a lot of other stuff. He makes such a big deal over this – as if adding two more crosses somehow increases the power of the only cross that matters – the cross of Christ! On this and other details [like the day Jesus died] he declared if you don't have the great accuracy of the Word – your whole Bible will just fall to pieces.
vpw sets PFAL students on a journey to find the "holy grail" – the original Word of God – you'll know it when you see it because it will have a "mathematical exactness and scientific precision and fit like a hand in a glove." To which I say – what major themes of the Bible would be impacted if we found the original writings of the Old and New Testament? Would we find out that God wasn't in the original text? Would it drastically alter our prayer-life, worship, and service or how we deal with our fellowman?
Bible contradictions can be a matter of viewpoint. In my opinion, vpw mishandled John 1:1, the timeline of creation, the Holy Spirit & Charismata, sin, faith/believing – just to name a few things.
~~
Navigating by Viewpoint
Overcomes worry and fear
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
Disciplines the mind by believing
Teaches how to pray effectually
What is your mental map of reality? How does life work? What map or viewpoint do you use on life's journey? It's different for everyone. Sometimes worry or fear can be a good thing – as in causing concern and activating a self-preservation process. A positive attitude is a good thing – but not to the exclusion of reality. The class promoted the law of believing as a way to alter our world. PFAL wasa pre-packaged paradigm of how to look at the world and handle anything that came up in your life. Grads view it as the road-map for success.
vpw said he seldom prayed in his understanding – speaking in tongues was praying effectually. Which makes me wonder – if God said He knows what we need even before we ask it of Him – then why pray at all? Perhaps God wants us engaging our minds in prayer so that we're conscious of a "partnership" with Him. He knows what we need. But do we know…trust…God to supply our need?
~~
The Prevailing Viewpoint
Makes Life meaningful
Promotes prosperity and health
Develops more harmony in the home
When I say, "prevailing," I mean it's prevailing over the PFAL grad – not prevailing over circumstances. Purpose in life is seen as what you do for TWI. Your spiritual status is governed by their criteria. The purpose of a PFAL grad is to make more PFAL grads. Prosperity, health and a harmonious home life revolve around TWI's definition of them. Fulfillment in life has nothing to do with your personal preferences, goals or desires.
Well, T, that's a more thorough evaluation than I even hoped to do, and you bring up some points that I wouldn't have considered without you. Thank you! I think my mind is OK to rest regarding the claims of the class on the green card.
Larry, I was thanking you for your post and your participation.
Mr. H: that was very moving. I've prayed similar prayers. ((( squirrel )))
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GrouchoMarxJr
Fine with me...there are people who enjoy derailing threads...for "whatever" reson.
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Larry N Moore
Hey! If Dan wants to bring to the thread non-related pictures and whatnot I'm fine with that. ;)
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waysider
Well, like I said before, I don't actually have the hallowed "green card".
I have this green hand-out thing that says a lot of the same things.
On the back, it says if you are interested in taking the class, you should send $65.00 to Newt Knockwurst and they will send you the registration form.( Maybe that's the "green card".)
Hmmm.
Here's something of interest,
"This class is designed to give each student a maximum of information in a minimum of time."
( I guess that's why it is best if you take it 10 or 15 times. <_<)
"The material presented covers all of the basic keys contained in the Word of God that will enable the students to manifest a life which is more than abundant."
(Boy now that's a relief. I was afraid I might have to take a whole bunch more classes or go live in a commune or something.)
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socks
All I can say is, I prefer the Lou Rawls icon O_man. I think it was in one of the Green Card benefits - "will make you sing line one bad mutha".
May he rest in peace. Lou baby was The Man. The Voice. "Tobacco Road" - fuggedit. "Lady Love". He was off the chart.
We want Lou back!!!
Green Card benefits. Okay, some semblance of Thread sanity. It was a registration card, and sales device.
I did realize most of those benefits, over the years. To say otherwise would be a lie. I feel strongly that PFAL itself did for me, in it's day, a great deal of good.
But going back to the first "class" I took and the next couple years, the Green Card claims weren't anything of consequence. I didn't come into PFAL looking for promises on a card to be delivered. I wanted to learn about the bible, and I did.
Over the years I came and went on the card claims. They seemed limiting in a way. But the process was to register, and the card was the registration card.
I now use a "Blue Card" for Socks SignUps. I find blue does much better at communicating the kind of cool cha-cha that the Socks Class for Big Living will bring to those who attend and apply the knowledge. But that's just me.
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waysider
Dear Mr. Socks, sir,
It is with great interest that I write to you in regard to your new class,
SCRIBBLE
(Socks Class foR Bbig Living, eh?)
It has been rumored you have said, I shouldn't be in SCRIBBLE.
I must humbly disagree and ask that you reconsider.
I think that I would be a perfect fit.
There are two issues I feel I must address before making a commitment.
First, are students required to provide their own familia?
( Not a problem,.I can make my own, though only in 100 pound batches)
Secondly, will there be any group, sprout rinsing practice sessions mingled amongst the teachings?
Again, not a problem, just curious)
Looking forward to your response,
Way(Blue Card)sider
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anotherDan
Thank you, Socks. And it was my take throughout my early years, starting in '73, that salesmanship was just something we were doing to bring a "product" we believed in to the world. I wanted then what I want now--an understanding of my role, responsibility, and proper relationship to God, and other people. I wanted the Truth. I wanted to love authentically, and to be loved. By the time I was 20, I didn't really have high expectations that I'd ever enter into that kind of wholeness. From day one, I knew the class had problems, but there was enough there to get me excited about the possibilities, at least. I chafed at some parts of the class, and I was put off by our class instructor handling my questions after the class so glibly and flippantly. (One of my questions was, "Has the ministry looked into the authenticity and relevancy of the Dead Sea Scrolls?" His answer was, "yes" and he moved on to my next question. He handled all the questions rather poorly.)
Within four months, I shipped out to Arkansas for my first WOW year. And I simply got too busy to really study the Word myself. I really thought for many years that that was what it was all about, but it became increasingly apparent that there was a platform to uphold. I believed in likemindedness, but by the 80's, what once was "make the Word your own" became "make PFAL your own." I agree with Socks (and of course, Oldiesman) that there was a lot there to hang on to.
IF ONLY we would have been true to a "charter" of honesty with the Scriptures, letting them speak for themselves, we might have grown. We talked about it, but we, like so many denominations, got stuck in a doctrinal vise, and I guess we felt we had to defend it. The Way, Inc. is now toast, but I have met lots of people who have gone "beyond what they were taught" and have become truly active members of Christ's living church in a way that was simply not possible in "the old days" EXCEPT within the "household" of the Way, and with whomever we could get to join up.
What kind of "benefits" would I use to "sell" the Gospel to someone today?
That's all I would have needed.
Grouchy, sorry I started that tangent with Lou Rawls. I had no idea Larry would post the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven, honest!
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Larry N Moore
*sigh*
"Green Card" I guess I'm really going to have to look at that thing again and see if I can come up with anything. BTW socks -- great post.
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Larry N Moore
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude. Yep.
makes life meaningfull Yep.
Overcomes worry and fear Yep, taught me the keys to do so.
Promotes prosperity and health Yep. Doesn't guarantee it though.
Explains apparent bible contradictions Yep. It explained some but not all. But then again the class wasn't meant to teach on all the scriptures from Genesis 1:1 through Revelations 22:21
Developes more harmony in the home I wasn't married at that time but I've applied the principles from it when I did and yep.
Enables you to seperate truth from error Yep.
Disciplines the mind by believing Yep.
Teaches how to pray effectively. Yep.
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Ham
I saw an interview with Robert Plant. The interviewer was saying how great they were, etc..
Plant replied with something like "we were a bunch of young punks who stole the blues.."
even more funny.. the band didn't think "Stairway to Heaven" would amount to much..
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Ham
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude.
No real negatives in life really shook me up before da class. I'd already looked death in the eye and kept at least part of my marbles..
makes life meaningfull
My life today is even more meaningful, without being under the auspices of pfal, twi et al..
Overcomes worry and fear
A friend demonstrated this. He would pass cars through a blind corner, claiming he didn't have to fear because he was doing it by revelation..
Promotes prosperity and health
works pretty well when a person is young..
Explains apparent bible contradictions
I really didn't care. Hadn't studied the contradictions da "teacher" was referring to to begin with..
Developes more harmony in the home
I had no home at the time. Don't know how something can give more harmony to something one does not have to begin with..
Enables you to seperate truth from error
if it means to define twi dogma as "truth", and everything else as "error", yeah, it fit the bill..
Disciplines the mind by believing
if it means to convince oneself that one is in New York harbor, when one is actually somewhere on the delta in New Orleans, regardless of all evidence otherwise, yep, it could be true..
Teaches how to pray effectively.
Changed in later cards to "Teaches how to pray EFFECTUALLY" i.e. how to GET the DESIRED results. Nope.. there is only one prayer I've prayed in over forty years that would even begin to be close to this kind of claim. Maybe I'll share it sometime.. I think I have on one post a long time ago.
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socks
Scribble! It's the new Word game!
Larry, glad you liked it. To add, I think that while reliance on Gracious living is essential, there's a side of all of life's benefits that require effort. Basically, we gotta do the work. Or at least look busy.
Things drop in our laps, go our way, flow towards us and away from us and all I can do is be thankful.
But if I sit around and wait with high expectations, that isn't being fully engaged in life, I think. Life isn't a point and shoot kind of thing. There's some setup, tear down. Shipping and receving. Work. Good ol' fashioned effort. Adjustments being made, fine tuning.
Like harmony in the home. After 36 years of marriage, I'd say that takes some effort. You have to put your back into it, figuratively speaking. I can't point to a class as the cause of the result. But there was some information that helped, I can say that.
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Larry N Moore
Excellent points socks! Excellent indeed.
Your post brought to mind how many in today's society have fallen victims of the instant gratification syndrome. We want it NOW! And if they (the victims) don't get it now they simply give up and conclude that it's not available.
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Ham
If you want instant gratification, don't go to college..
buy a lottery ticket. Of course, not very many will be instantly gratified..
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Larry N Moore
Quite right, Mr. Squirrel. I wonder though -- How many college students would continue their education if they hit the lottery jackpot. I also wonder how many college students working towards a certain degree -- like in education -- give up on finding a job in that field and go to work for Walmart. ;)
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anotherDan
Now listen squirrel, I'm interested. If you decide not to post it, I would be honored if you would PM it to me.
Thank you, Socks. Thank you, Larry.
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Larry N Moore
:unsure: I'm not sure what for but, you're welcome Dan.
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Ham
One of my kids had a horrible disease. I kew she would live.. I prayed it wouldn't take her beauty.
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T-Bone
Just for grins, I categorized the "benefits" into three groups – loosely based around the way I think they function in our belief system. Establishing a viewpoint has the biggest impact – to which I've devoted the most comments.
Establishing a viewpoint
This is about absorbing PFAL – or the demise of critical thinking.
Enables you to separate truth from error
This works out to be vpw asserting the superiority of his interpretation of the Bible over anyone else's. Of course it doesn't come across as his interpretation. By ignoring the context of II Peter 1 on the origin of Scripture, he argues the Bible is of no private interpretation – so it must interpret itself.
By his inept use of interpretive keys, twisted logic and plagiarism forges a patchwork theology – his standard of truth. And with the assumption that this is how the Word interprets, itself students tend to think PFAL is the God-breathed textbook for the Bible. After PFAL 77 was filmed many assumed it would replace the original class. But I remember upper leadership saying "Paul didn't have to re-write Ephesians."
What is sad, is the fact that PFAL grads have a hard time separating vpw's interpretation of the Bible from the Bible itself. Grads wear PFAL-colored glasses – a filter that only allows the wearer to see Scripture vpw's way. Maybe it should say "Enables you to separate things that differ from PFAL." Quality of thinking is only as good as the intellectual standards in place. PFAL students were expected to accept vpw's intellectual standards – which were very poor – and he liked to keep it that way - after all, "you can't go beyond what you're taught."
Explains apparent Bible contradictions
I think PFAL made a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe vpw's piece de resistance was the four crucified – which of course he plagiarized like a lot of other stuff. He makes such a big deal over this – as if adding two more crosses somehow increases the power of the only cross that matters – the cross of Christ! On this and other details [like the day Jesus died] he declared if you don't have the great accuracy of the Word – your whole Bible will just fall to pieces.
vpw sets PFAL students on a journey to find the "holy grail" – the original Word of God – you'll know it when you see it because it will have a "mathematical exactness and scientific precision and fit like a hand in a glove." To which I say – what major themes of the Bible would be impacted if we found the original writings of the Old and New Testament? Would we find out that God wasn't in the original text? Would it drastically alter our prayer-life, worship, and service or how we deal with our fellowman?
Bible contradictions can be a matter of viewpoint. In my opinion, vpw mishandled John 1:1, the timeline of creation, the Holy Spirit & Charismata, sin, faith/believing – just to name a few things.
~~
Navigating by Viewpoint
Overcomes worry and fear
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
Disciplines the mind by believing
Teaches how to pray effectually
What is your mental map of reality? How does life work? What map or viewpoint do you use on life's journey? It's different for everyone. Sometimes worry or fear can be a good thing – as in causing concern and activating a self-preservation process. A positive attitude is a good thing – but not to the exclusion of reality. The class promoted the law of believing as a way to alter our world. PFAL was a pre-packaged paradigm of how to look at the world and handle anything that came up in your life. Grads view it as the road-map for success.
vpw said he seldom prayed in his understanding – speaking in tongues was praying effectually. Which makes me wonder – if God said He knows what we need even before we ask it of Him – then why pray at all? Perhaps God wants us engaging our minds in prayer so that we're conscious of a "partnership" with Him. He knows what we need. But do we know…trust…God to supply our need?
~~
The Prevailing Viewpoint
Makes Life meaningful
Promotes prosperity and health
Develops more harmony in the home
When I say, "prevailing," I mean it's prevailing over the PFAL grad – not prevailing over circumstances. Purpose in life is seen as what you do for TWI. Your spiritual status is governed by their criteria. The purpose of a PFAL grad is to make more PFAL grads. Prosperity, health and a harmonious home life revolve around TWI's definition of them. Fulfillment in life has nothing to do with your personal preferences, goals or desires.
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anotherDan
Well, T, that's a more thorough evaluation than I even hoped to do, and you bring up some points that I wouldn't have considered without you. Thank you! I think my mind is OK to rest regarding the claims of the class on the green card.
Larry, I was thanking you for your post and your participation.
Mr. H: that was very moving. I've prayed similar prayers. ((( squirrel )))
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